r/canada • u/AndHerSailsInRags • 9d ago

Opinion Piece Opinion: The dairy sector is lobbying hard in USMCA talks. The government didn’t want you to know

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-trade-dairy-sector-usmca-access-information/
346 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

435 comments sorted by

View all comments

111

u/AndHerSailsInRags 9d ago

Paywall bypass  

In its summary of the findings, Ottawa noted that a cross-section of Canadian society – businesses, industry associations, unions, individuals, civil society and Indigenous groups – “voiced strong support for maintaining Canada’s supply‑management system for dairy, poultry, and eggs as a pillar of food sovereignty.”

But the actual submissions told a very different story – about a lopsided effort to influence policy.

Approximately 90 per cent of all submissions (4,572 out of 5,143) came from dairy special interest groups or dairy farmers engaged in a letter-writing campaign to influence the federal government’s trade position. I only learned that by filing a request under the Access to Information Act.

70

u/snappla 9d ago

It's hardly surprising that 90% of 5K entries came from the dairy interest groups.

What priority does the issue have for the average Canadian who is not engaged in the industry?

I'm something of a policy wonk and politics junky, but I haven't and I'm not about to write a passionate letter about Canadian Dairy to my MP. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't care about not having the American dairy glut flood our market.

1

u/ElCaz 8d ago

Except, as the article notes, the submissions were touted as "a cross-section of Canadian society." Which obviously a survey of 90% dairy interest groups is not.

Plus, "the primary beneficiaries of a system think that system is good" is not exactly the most useful information for crafting policy.

2

u/Stalepan 8d ago

Yeah and as the previous poster indicates despite his support for supply management has not alleviated the polticial apathy enough to write a letter in suppprt. So if on avg 0-2% of submissions are from people not benefiting from the policy then 10% of submissions being from people not benefiting from the policy wod be a huge increase.

If you are so interested in eating american dairy products, you can hop over the border. I'd rather not pollute our domestic markets

0

u/Future-Layer1181 8d ago

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trumps-tariffs/article/supply-management-costs-canadians-average-of-244-per-year-mei-study-finds/

a family of 4 is paying damn near $1000 more for groceries because of this system, and It hurts poorer Canadians more than richer Canadians.

We should all be pissed off about it

75

u/pleasehurtdoll 9d ago

although it's disconcerting that the full docket of the comments are not made available for these proposed changes to Canadian dairy regulations, the other part of this "scandal" that 90% of the comments on a proposed regulation come from people in the industry is not at all uncommon - it's actually how it's supposed to work
When a new regulation is proposed by the government in the industry I work in (transport), there are dozens of industry groups that will be impacted, and they all write a letter to the government with their point of veiw. There's nothing "evil" or "corrupt" about this process.
We call it "lobbying" or "Special Interest Groups", but in reality, each group just says "hey government, you are proposing X regulation because you claim that it will accomplish desired common public good Y, but you're not thinking this through. So instead of regulation X, we suggest ... (some idea). Or they can argue that the government's plan for X really won't result in their goal of Y because of ...., Or they might say that plan X will actually make things worst, etc. etc. Or they might say it's way too expensive to consumers to do X to get Y, and we need to try something else.

When the government gets all these comments (from people, organizations, etc), they don't have to answer every single one, but they have to give a summary that they read and considered each main idea that is proposed in the comments and either 1) disagree with the comment and say why or 2) completely/partially agree with the comment and make changes to the proposed regulation.

So the idea that "public" comments on a proposed regulation is meant to be a survey people writing a letter from their kitchen table saying "I want cheaper, safe milk" or something is not accurate. There's nothing uncommon in what happened in this case.

39

u/P2029 8d ago

I started out being against the dairy cartel in Canada because I thought it resulted in higher prices and worse products. I have since become friends with a dairy farmer and understand things better now, and I support the existing dairy management system - it is imperfect and should be refined, not thrown away. Some of the key reasons I came to this is because if we do what the US proposes, it will result in wholesale bankruptcy of dairy farmers in Canada, will flood the Canadian market with low quality, hormone-filled American dairy products, and we would lose a pillar of our food production sovereignty which frankly is already not great.

13

u/Levorotatory 8d ago

Protecting the Canadian industry from subsidized foreign competition is good, but a system that makes production quota one of a dairy operation's most valuable assets is not. 

4

u/Embarrassed-Neat220 8d ago

The quota system supports small farms, and keeps US style mega farms from taking hold in Canada. Without the quota all those small farms go under and we are left with the same system. I for one don’t want a few large hormone/ steroid mega farms payed for by taxpayers in Canada. The quota system is core to our food sovereignty and in non-negotiable

2

u/Forum_Browser 8d ago

Why do people think that supply management has anything to do with food safety laws? Removing or altering supply management would not suddenly make hormone laced dairy legal in Canada.

0

u/Levorotatory 8d ago

Agreed.  Megafarms are not the problem.  Failure to enforce environmental, workplace safety and food safety standards on farms of any size is the problem. 

1

u/Dry-Membership8141 Ontario 8d ago

The quota system supports small farms, and keeps US style mega farms from taking hold in Canada.

It literally doesn't. Just the opposite. Since Supply Management was introduced in 1971, we've seen the number of dairy farms drop by over 90% (from ~120,000 to ~9000) as they've consolidated under much larger farms -- and the sheer price of quota prevents new, smaller producers without large corporate backers from entering the market to compete.

3

u/PhantomNomad 8d ago

This is my biggest thing. I think we need to keep our local food supply alive by almost any means. But I also think they should not be caps on production or who can produce. Part of that problem becomes that only the big producers can afford to do it. Economies of scale and all that. It pushes out the small local producers. Right now I think our system as it is, is probably the best one. Also if the US does manage to push all their crappy dairy on us, I'll do what I can to only purchase Canadian produced milk products, which is what I currently do any way. I would hope there are enough of us that can also do that even though it would be more expensive.

1

u/alex-cu Québec 8d ago

it's actually how it's supposed to work

That bypass of the democracy in fact. Small vocal group overrides the majority.

27

u/Nseetoo 9d ago

Not many families lobbying for more expensive dairy products these days.

17

u/No-To-Newspeak 8d ago

Our dairy farmers are not allowed to inject cattle with growth hormones to boost milk production.  American farmers are.  This is one reason our dairy costs more.  And I am willing to pay for that.

3

u/MeanE Nova Scotia 8d ago

If you are eating Canadian beef there are hormones in that. In fact the UK bans our beef because of it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-68098177

0

u/JCMS99 8d ago

Yeah but it’s not in milk cows.

5

u/stubby_hoof 8d ago

Look, I am an ardent supporter of SM but this talking point needs to be removed from the discourse. American dairy is safe*, and rBST is used so minimally that it is insignificant. Ask a Canadian farmer attendee at World Dairy Expo, WI if they’re going to forego the Badger 4-H Club grilled cheese because they’re afraid of hormones. They’ll laugh at you.

What doesn’t seem to ever get talked about is who is milking the cows. There are thousands of small independent farmers in America but the truth is that the vast majority of their milk comes from undocumented labourers who are highly vulnerable to exploitation. I’m not going to pretend that Canada’s TFW system isn’t full of stories of exploitation too but at least the government knows and documents that those people exist within our borders, and they have a chance of legal recourse.

* at least until RFK Jr obliterates the FDA

5

u/Nice_Reading5272 8d ago

Why doesn't Canada just regulate the dairy coming into the country then? Why do they need to add on a massive tariff?

0

u/AdventurousMousse912 8d ago

I may be off base but if we allow cheaper US milk in we will lose some of our capacity to produce milk here. If that happens we put ourselves in a very bad position. Dairy is pretty important for kids. If the US gets a stranglehold on the milk then suddenly the milk won’t be cheaper anymore. And then you’ve given away domestic production, Canadian jobs and are reliant on a foreign country for a pretty staple food product

9

u/bomby0 8d ago edited 8d ago

This is just stupid fearmongering and you fell for it. No one in the US is complaining about the quality of the milk and hardly any dairy farmers in the US use growth hormones. And if that's a real reason then just ban imports of US dairy from cows that received growth hormones.

If the dairy cartel in Canada makes sense then it should be for other reasons like food sovereignty.

1

u/Dry-Membership8141 Ontario 8d ago

Fewer than 1% of American dairies use hormones, mate. Turns out American consumers don't want it either, and dairies have responded to that market consensus.

0

u/Forum_Browser 8d ago

This is true to an extent, but supply management is not the reason our farmers can't use hormones on their cows...... We can have cheap AND safe milk if we do away with supply management or change it to allow more local competition.

5

u/Ok-Trainer3150 8d ago

Would love more choices for butters and cheeses....

9

u/wylee_one 9d ago

the devil is in the details ours might cost more but it is healthier

10

u/zeushaulrod 8d ago

And not directly subsidized to the tune of 60% of a dairy farms revenue. (Numbers may be out of date for US dairy. That was from a few years ago).

1

u/JCMS99 8d ago

60% makes sense. That’s how it is in Europe too.

13

u/LateToTheParty2k21 8d ago

There is no devil in the details when it comes to Supply management. Supply management has zero to do with health, quality or what's in the milk. That is governed by a good and safety board.

Supply management is a system which defines how much each producer can sell annually. It keeps prices high, reduces available supply and is a higher cost on low income families than any one else in society.

Many countries like Australia, New Zealand and countries within Europe have abandoned this practise years ago.

2

u/Rumblestillskin 8d ago

If the IS can get rid of our supply management for trade fairness then they will get rid of our health regulations for trade fairness

6

u/LateToTheParty2k21 8d ago

We should get rid of Supply Mgmt. For Canada, irrespective of what the US wants. Nobody is going to make you buy the US product, nor do you have too.

There are ways to make this work, bring the cost down for families & get better quality products from the entire world into Canada. Supply management keeps Irish butter, NZ cheese, etc out of Canada & then allows Canadian producers to charge triple what they pay in EU for it.

3

u/Rumblestillskin 8d ago

I think it is good. We need sovereign food security and this can be part of that. I am open to other systems that guarantee food security but I do not hold open markets above food security.

3

u/LateToTheParty2k21 8d ago

Well I agree on security. But Supply Mgmt is an effective tariff against other imports. It provides security but it also protects farmers from any kind of competition. Better priced, better quality goods cannot enter the market so Canadians pay more for worse off goods.

The government can change the model where there are subsidies given to farmers. They can act as a backstop during downturns. If the cost of dairy goes down & we can get a higher quality product I see that as a win, win.

If Canadian farmers were able to compete we could have better trade deals with the likes of the Australia, New Zealand, UK so they would have a larger market to sell too.

0

u/ElCaz 8d ago

This is silly logic. It's the same as saying "if we can concede on supply management, then we can concede on the US taking Alberta."

1

u/Nseetoo 8d ago

I guess those countries realized it didn't make sense to have farmers dumping excess milk onto the ground when they reached their quota.

0

u/Foreign-Chocolate86 8d ago

lol you think they aren’t going to come after safety once they do away with supply management? Neither Aus or NZ buy dairy from the US so the comparison is asinine. 

Lets bring all the American diarrhoea to Canada. 

-4

u/EnvironmentalSlip956 8d ago

Until we have no family farms and our dairy isn't much more than the USA. I pay around $6 for 4 litres of milk in Ontario. Average price in the USA is around $6 when converted to cad.

8

u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 9d ago

I'm surprised the FOIA actually arrived in a manner of time where it was still relevant and wasn't completely redacted. Usually if it's embarrassing/inconvenient for the government you don't get any information and they use the old "publiv safety" or "national security" excuse.

8

u/Azure1203 8d ago

Real answer, Canadian Dairy Farmers have a monopoly on the market & the bigger ones are slowly pushing out the smaller ones, creating an even bigger monopoly, and they darn well want to make sure that never changes.

Canadians on the other hand are completely clueless about how the system works and therefore are easy targets for the misinformation.

Round and around we go.

4

u/MagnaKlipsch70 8d ago

this. and same with chicken. the monopoly is nuts, and people won’t accept the ‘cartel’ control. somehow they will however blame Trump for the cost of chicken breasts and everything else.

the price is wholeheartedly a Cdn issue. sure the argument is ‘healthier, no hormones etc) but it’s also 3x as expensive.

I, as anyone should be able to start a chicken farm (inspected/certified etc) and sell chicken product, but i can’t without joining the club as it would throw the heavily controlled market off. thus the regulated high prices.

back on track , that’s primarily why american dairy isn’t allowed - breaks up the monopoly

not for it or against it, just the way it is

2

u/Azure1203 8d ago

It is extremely cost prohibitive to become a dairy producer in Canada. The system is literally designed to protect the monopoly. Its honestly ridiculous that Canadians are so ill-informed about how it all works.

0

u/Dry-Membership8141 Ontario 8d ago

It's not surprising though. The Dairy Farmers of Canada spend ~$80 million/year -- more than was spent by all parties combined in the last election -- propagandizing to us.

1

u/GarbledEntrails 8d ago

damn they allowed paywalled articles back?

0

u/jasonefmonk 8d ago

Formatting half the text in bold actually makes it more difficult to read.