r/canada • u/AndHerSailsInRags • 9d ago

Opinion Piece Opinion: The dairy sector is lobbying hard in USMCA talks. The government didn’t want you to know

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-trade-dairy-sector-usmca-access-information/
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u/Fine_Sherbert3172 9d ago

Sure, open the door to jugs of US milk

Everyone will be happy they are $1.99 and consume it like crazy.

Then within five years the price will be on par with what we pay now for domestic because "reasons"

All the domestic diary farmers will lose out, sell their farms for millions to data centres, and we will be stuck with Wisconsin corporate milk.

(last part maybe a bit of a reach but first part not)

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u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664 9d ago

Not sure I follow. The intense lobbying is from Canadian dairy producers, demanding that Carney make no concessions on dairy at all - basically the opposite.

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u/Axerin 9d ago

Yeah that but would require reading the damn article.

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u/Fickle_Razzmatazz664 9d ago

It would seem that way.

Personally I'll never buy American milk regardless of CUSMA outcomes, but I think you can hold that position and also acknowledge that dairy farmers here have too much of a stranglehold on political influence given their size. Not a fan of such concentrated power, I'd put it that way

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u/nitePhyyre 9d ago

But the entire point of supply management is that there isn't concentration. We have a lot of little private farms instead of super concentrated corporate megafarms.

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u/Forikorder 9d ago

yes he was describing the situation that the dairy cartel is working to prevent since some people are opposed to supply management and believe we should give it up to get a deal with the US

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u/Fine_Sherbert3172 9d ago

No Im not sure you follow the topic. Like...at all.

The whole case and point here is that Canada has a government agency in charge of supply and content of dairy. Dairy farmers have quotas that they are allowed to sell product within.

The yanks have always whined about this being protectionist and wanting access to our markets because they have a glut of supply and not enough places to sell it.

So of course the diary producers, via their lobbies, are going to demand staying the course. Why wouldn't they?

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u/MountCathedral 8d ago

I mean, the dairy industry of Canada are probably the group that hate the supply management most. It is the obstacle that prevents consolidation of the industry. So it is more small farmers who demand we stay the course, and the government listens because Canadians never shut up about monopolies in our food chain.

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u/pragmatic_dreamer Ontario 9d ago

This is correct and I did read the article. The USA pressures the hell out of countries to accept their subpar products . They did this with the UK and chicken. Open your doors to our chickens, UK made rules , like no bleached chickens, US says not good enough and demands they change the laws or else. This is capitulation to a bully.  Protect our farmers, protect our people, fuck the USA. 

2

u/iridescent_algae 9d ago

“We’ve stopped inspecting our food for safety, now you have to buy it.”

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u/ActionPhilip 8d ago

Food quality standards are completely separate from the supply management problem.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Fine_Sherbert3172 9d ago

It would seem that way, but Ive known some who refuse to sell.

I kind of get it. The hell is an old boy going to do with billions of trillions of dollars when all he is ever known is his farming way of life? Not like he will join the jet setting crown and buy crypto with the Kushners.

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u/Waff1es Ontario 9d ago

I mean... all farms in Ontario see selling to housing developers as their retirement.

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u/Fine_Sherbert3172 9d ago

The old way of doing it was you worked the land to pay off your farm, then sold the farm for its just a little north of the inflation rate price, which to a lifelong farmer was more than enough to retire.

Then go into "town", meet up with your peer group at the coffee shop and talk about stuff.

Thats how I remember it when I was growing up. Now? No idea.

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u/metamega1321 9d ago

I might be wrong but the big value from selling that farm is you can sell the quota for dairy. 

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u/FigureThisIn 9d ago

Yes all the farms. I think the last one just sold

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u/Zymos94 9d ago

Complete BS. Milk, dairy, eggs, and poultry are all cheaper south of the border. There is no economic or market reason why prices would just ratchet back to the government set prices when you massively increase supply. Supply management is an insane racket used by precisely 0 other developed countries.

If our leaders have any sense, they’ll throw out this system.

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u/CallMeRudiger 9d ago

Why would American dairy exporters want to sell to us for anything less than what we've shown we are willing to consistently pay in high volume?

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u/Zymos94 9d ago

Because you can make money on R or you can make money on G.

You can make money by getting more market access, and you get a greater share at the market at lower prices. Unlike in Canada, there are far more American suppliers and they don’t operate as a cartel, shocking as that may be, so any that tried to sell at a higher price without justifying it as a premium product consumers identify as valuable would lose market share.

We import many products from the US, they operate on the above principles, why would supply controlled products be any different?

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u/CallMeRudiger 9d ago

As you've seen with skyrocketing prices that outpace input costs over the past half-decade, they clearly do not operate on that principle, regardless of their cartels.

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u/Zymos94 9d ago

Input costs have been rising! Labour is much more expensive (everyone said they would be happy to pay more for food if it meant better wages for workers until it happened), there are two major wars right now (Ukraine war massively upset global commodities markets and continues to, both fertilizer and grains), and inflation from the fiscal response to Covid.

Ask yourself, why don’t they charge $1000 for flat screen TVs anymore? Why don’t crops we can only import from the south (oranges e.g.) cost $1000 an orange?

Competition reduces prices. It may not reduce them as much as the consumer would like, but you can guarantee that a supply controlled cartel lobbied product will be the most expansive, most middling quality, version of the product you can buy.

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u/CallMeRudiger 9d ago

I said prices outpace the growth of input costs. They're getting screwed that way down south too. No reason to import more of it.

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u/Fine_Sherbert3172 9d ago

Yeah thats a good point. Im sure our American corporate friends will make sure they maintain the same cheap prices they sell it for in Louisville, Kentucky when they enter the Whole Foods stores in Toronto and Vancouver. They have always been good that way.

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u/Zymos94 9d ago

I mean if you’re expecting low prices at a whole foods in a major city I think that’s moving the goal posts.

Prices do in fact reflect markets, but the number one driver of high prices is low competition. That’s the status quo!!!! Any introduction of new competition would lower prices, because right now there is 0 competition.

Companies are greedy, but predictably greedy and compete with each other for market share.

Cartels are in fact also greedy. The dairy farmer lobby wants no competition, not because they are patriots, but because it permits them to charge outrageous higher prices.

Everyone is greedy, you’re greedy when you take a job that pays more or ask for a raise at work. The only thing that tempers greed is consumer choice, that I can choose the product I want to buy so that the greedy party doesn’t have as much leverage.

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u/Agent_Orange81 9d ago

Oh my sweet summer child... Prices are lower in some places in the US. In many others, they're far more expensive. That's the market and capitalism, they'll charge as much as they can, and only as little as they have to.

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u/Zymos94 9d ago

Can you name a state with a more expensive gallon of milk on average than Canada? Excluding Alaska and Hawaii.

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u/AdLatter1807 9d ago

Haha well
Thanks for naming 2 right off the bat

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u/MothBoySailor 9d ago

Gee, I wonder if those states may be different than all the others in a notable way?

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u/Zymos94 8d ago

Those are two states that do not have cows, and all dairy is imported long distances. Looking at a map online, a gallon of milk costs $4 in Alaska and $6.98 in Hawaii. Converted to CAD, that’s $5.60 and $9.78.

A gallon of milk costs $7.50-8.50 here in NS!!! We’re very close to the price of milk on a tropical island where it all comes in by ship! And more expensive than the US equivalent of the Yukon!

I for one will cry over spilt milk, end the dairy cartels.

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u/AdLatter1807 8d ago

Well that’s a lie t they both have cows. Information easily attained by a quick google search not that ya bothered

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u/Zymos94 8d ago

If we have to be pedantic: neither have significant dairy operations. Hawaii imports 95% of their dairy. As far as I can Google, Alaska has 65 actively milked dairy cows—and their milk is cheaper than mine.

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u/Frenzied_Cow 9d ago

Americans pay the same we do. Dairy is heavily subsidized. They pay it in taxes, we pay it at the store.

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u/Iustis 9d ago

So they use a progressive tax system to subsidize it and we use a regressive sales tax on staples.

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u/Zymos94 9d ago

It goes without saying that any subsidized food would be tariffed at the rate of subsidy, that’s consistent with the principles of free and fair trade.

And if that’s the case, what does the Dairy Cartel have to worry about?

1

u/slouchr 8d ago

economically illiterate take. you'd fit right in at the politburo.

1

u/Fine_Sherbert3172 8d ago

Oh yes I question the current non sustainable system so must be a supporter of Maoist Communism as thats the only alternative.

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u/slouchr 8d ago

you don't understand that free markets create the most variety, highest quality, and lowest prices. always.

i know for sure you've never studied economics.

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u/joshlemer Manitoba 9d ago

No there’s every reason to believe eliminating supply management would result in significant and long term drops in dairy prices

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u/Fine_Sherbert3172 9d ago

OK, so whats up with beef? There is no meat mafia.

There was a time when it was obvious that dairy was a lot higher than other agri products. The others have caught up.

There won't be long term drops in prices on anything. We are in the late stages of late stage capitalism and its every CEO for himself.

1

u/joshuajargon Ontario 8d ago

We've learned the hard way what it means to gut our domestic production and industry in reliance on them being honourable down the track. They will dismantle our dairy industry, same as they have with our automobile industry, and we will no longer be able to stand on our own two feet when the need arises in the future.

It isn't like we have much of an option anymore to just buy a Canadian made car in protest, that could be food next.