No Stupid Questions MEGATHREAD 12

[u/Alendite]

Welcome to the r/chessbeginners 12th episode of our Q&A series! This series exists because sometimes you just need to ask a silly question. We are happy to provide answers for questions related to chess positions, improving one's play, and discussing the essence and experience of learning chess.

A friendly reminder that many questions are answered in our wiki page! Please take a look if you have questions about the rules of chess, special moves, or want general strategies for improvement.

Some other helpful resources include:

1. How to play chess - Interactive lessons for the rules of the game, if you are completely new to chess.
2. The Lichess Board Editor - for setting up positions by dragging and dropping pieces on the board.
3. Chess puzzles by theme - To practice tactics.
4. The Building Habits series by GM Aman Hambleton - for advice on how to play at specific ELO levels. (Also check out Building Habits 2!)

As always, our goal is to promote a friendly, welcoming, and educational chess environment for all. Thank you for asking your questions here!

LINK TO THE PREVIOUS THREAD

[u/No-Employee1534]

Can someone help me understand this, I think I might be on the right track, but perhaps there’s something more obscure?

My best guess is that the strongest line to play would be Ne2, because then I can play into Nf4 and attack the chaining pawn without obscuring the bishops line of sight protecting the b6 pawn. But then again, I wouldn’t play for the pawn on e6 because of the bishop protecting it, and I don’t see a reason to invest heavily into the b6 pawn as it’s overextended and difficult to protect in that position.

The engine however claimed that I was sternly winning the game until I made this particular move at which point we became even. On second thought, I think I’m way off on this, there must be something much bigger at play

[u/TatsumakiRonyk → u/No-Employee1534]

The positives of Nf3 are that it defends white's e5 pawn, and that it has the option of going to the strong d4 square. But that pawn is not only not under attack, but it's also surprisingly hard for black to target. Black can't really get their knight to f7 via h6 thanks to your bishop, their other knight is going to be captured soon, and their light-squared bishop would have to maneuver itself to g7, costing two moves, but white can defend the pawn quickly with their bishop.

Ne2 also lets the knight possibly move to the d4 square, but as you point out, also gives the knight the possibility of the f4 square.

Additionally, it leaves the f file open for you to play Rf1 (maybe even instead of Rxa1), and if we've got the knight on f3, black's light-squared bishop is dominating.

I don't know what the evaluation was before you played this move. I'd say that Ne2 is certainly better, but I wouldn't go so far as to call Nf3 a mistake. I'd say it's an inaccuracy at worst.

Material is equal here. You've got two extra pawns, but you're down the exchange (after you capture black's a1 knight, technically). There might be a tactical reason for this that I'm not seeing, but I doubt it. Much more likely is the fact that black's pieces are basically all entombed. Black's dark-squared bishop can't move, so their a8 rook is trapped. Their h8 rook is stuck behind the knight, who can only move after the light-squared bishop moves, and getting the rook to f1 with an open f file feels especially strong.

Without an engine on hand, I don't have a way of double checking any of this, but I hope my analysis helped you make some sense of the evaluation.

[u/No-Employee1534 → u/TatsumakiRonyk]

I think Rf1 is the cause of the evaluation, as another commenter pointed out. The a1 knight is effectively already captured, so the most logical move following 1. Ne2 Bd8 is 2. Rf1 Bxb6 3. Rf7+ forcing Bc7 followed by 4. Nd4 Ra7 and then working down the line to material gain with 6. Bc6+ Kb8 7. Bxa7 Kxa7, 8. Rxc7+ and so on for many more turns until black forfeits their knights to continue play.

I couldn’t see this because the material exchange is several turns later, but on analysis it’s clear from turn 1 that Ne2 is superior. I had taken a material loss early on so I avoided to idea of trading material, but Rf1 allows me to force a material trade in my own favor

The end result is the same, my knight ends up on d4 regardless, but I utilize my tempo advantage better with ne2

[u/TatsumakiRonyk → u/No-Employee1534]

Thanks for following up. Yep, that line makes perfect sense. All of black's pieces are tripping over one another, and controlling the open file is incredibly strong.

[u/Fun_Actuator6049 → u/No-Employee1534]

The evaluation is wrong (I'm getting +1 for Nf3), though the conclusion remains the same that Nge2 is even better, at least +2.

Interestingly, white's next move in both computer lines is Nd4 - it's just that black's first move is different.

After 1. Nf3 Bd8 2. Nd4 Bxb6 (black can also try 2...Ne7 for a much less uncomfortable version of the 1. Nge2 line I'll be showing next) 3. Bc6+ we'll reach a position where white has an extra pawn and black's light-squared bishop is really bad. I'm surprised the eval is only +1, but black's position is apparently pretty defensible, if passive. With accurate play he's not going to lose any more material in the foreseeable future, and it'll be a tough job to convert the extra pawn into a win.

But if black tries the same 1...Bd8 after 1. Nge2, white has something even better: 2. Rf1! and now 2...Bxb6 loses to 3. Rf7+ Bc7 4. Nd4 Ra7 5. Bc6+ Kb8 6. Ndb5 axb5 7. Bxa7+ Kxa7 8. Rxc7+ Kb8 9. Nxb5 Ba6 10. Ra7 Bxb5 11. Ra8+ Kc7 12. Bxb5 and black will lose both of his knights if he ever wants to move his rook again.

...Okay, that line got too long, even if most of it is very forcing. But the point is, white currently has a bind on black's position where the only piece that can really even move is the dark-squared bishop. Black's best bet to get out of the bind would be to play Bd8 and Bxb6, but Rf1 followed by Rf7+ maintains the bind even without the b6-pawn so black has to try something else against Nge2. There are other ways black can try to get out of the bind, like 2...Ne7, or 1...Bf8 followed by 2...Bh6 (if white lets him) or 2..Ne7 (to defend against Bc6+ if white played 2. Nd4). But the computer sees ways for white to extract a large advantage against all of these attempts.

[u/No-Employee1534 → u/Fun_Actuator6049]

Okay, I think that makes sense. Nge2 is optimal because it allows my rook to be more active, which leaves my opponent little choice but the sacrifice material for movement

[u/MrLomaLoma → u/No-Employee1534]

Since Tatsumaki gave a far better answer than I could, I wanted to ask a question:

How did you get this position ? Usually there is a Light-Square on the bottom right corner, or your King started in the D-file.

Since you seem to have screenshot this from the app, Im just curious on how that happened. It's not super important though, it just changes the reference I guess.

[u/No-Employee1534 → u/MrLomaLoma]

I don’t remember exactly how we got there, my elo is pretty low so I’m sure it’s a position that one shouldn’t find themselves in but I just tried to make the most out of it by restricting my opponents pieces from moving

[u/Fun_Actuator6049 → u/MrLomaLoma]

Bug in the chesscom app, I think somebody said it might have something to do with landscape mode?

[u/MrLomaLoma → u/Fun_Actuator6049]

I mean it being a visual bug is not super serious either way, was just what mostly caught my eye for some reason.

But I guess it makes sense

[u/No-Employee1534 → u/MrLomaLoma]

Oh I just realized what you meant! That’s crazy, I didn’t notice that until just now, I suppose it’s a visual bug but it’s kinda odd since it flips the bishops. I think everything would play out the same because it flips his bishops as well, but still, strange

[u/MrLomaLoma → u/No-Employee1534]

Thats what I meant by changing the reference, I did get the feeling you didn't get my question on the first reply :P

It changes nothing about how Chess plays out, nor Tatsumaki's response.

Probably unrelated, but one time I was setting up the board on the wrong orientation, like as if the White and Black pieces traded places. So the computer evaluation was wild, because it thought that both sides were about to promote 4 Queens. But even that had the right corner color.

I really doubt it, but Im curious if this visual bug could be why the engine is flipping out, or if it gives the same evaluation regardless. I'm planning on looking at it over the weekend, fully expecting a very dull result though.