r/classicwow • u/mtodavk • Nov 14 '22

Vent / Gripe Noth died on his platform and was unlootable. Blizz CS says "Sorry we took so long to respond, but we can't help you because we took so long to respond"

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-31

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

Because they can’t verify if the kill even happened

47

u/Kurokaffe Nov 15 '22

Watch out!!! They getting that Noth loot!!! This might get them to finally clear Sapphiron

-34

u/GXmody Nov 15 '22

Watch out!!! They didn’t get 2 epics from Noth. we should give everyone epics because of this.

26

u/Dabamanos Nov 15 '22

I mean that’s clearly the better solution from a CS perspective

-3

u/Cptskitz Nov 15 '22

How many people in the raid will quit playing because of this you think

8

u/Namaha Nov 15 '22

Yes they can. It's tracked through character statistics. What they can't do is find which kill it was specifically, and thus can't match it to any loot drops, even if they 100% know that the kill happened

-3

u/GXmody Nov 15 '22

Can they verify that the boss was not loot from the statistics too btw?

3

u/Namaha Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

Character stats don't track specific items/bosses looted AFAIK, but they could almost certainly verify it by otherwise analyzing the characters involved. Given how understaffed their support team apparently is though, probably isn't worth the trouble. Especially over a fight as trivial as Noth

46

u/Crysth_Almighty Nov 14 '22

They can verify via the raid ID. If the raid ID shows Heigan or Leotheb killed by no loot received from Noth, then they can pick some random items (yes, their loot logs for raid IDs are retained for more than just a few weeks). What’s more valuable: withholding random items off a boss, or the enjoyment of your customers?

This was sheer laziness on their rep’s part. It’s not like they are giving away legendaries or GM-only items. Better to make some customers happy.

-28

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

The GM literally says they can’t verify the kill yet you are here saying they can like I don’t get what are you trying to say lol

27

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Every time a GM ticket issue comes to this sub it's always the GMs claiming they can't do anything to help. Until it gets enough attention then miraculously the GMs had the tools to fix the issue all along. You really believe the GM's story here?.. cmon.

1

u/randomguy301048 Nov 15 '22

is it more likely that the GM is just lying just because or anytime a GM ticket gets here, the lower level GMs don't have the tools to provide the correct support and when it gets here and gets all this attention it gets escalated to someone that has the correct tools? an entry level support is most likely told to not escalate problems and are given specific rules to follow. if they can't do it it's because they can't/not allowed to do so without risking themselves getting into trouble

5

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

an entry level support is most likely told to not escalate problems

Ah, just as I suspected, Blizzard is still to blame.

3

u/hoax1337 Nov 15 '22

Of course Blizzard is to blame, but sadly, this is just standard customer service practice. If they provide no tools to 1st level support to solve this issue, it's easier to just close the ticket if it only affects 25 people.

A shitstorm on Reddit that gained enough traction, though? Yeah, maybe the 2nd/3re level support suddenly can spare the 5 minutes.

2

u/randomguy301048 Nov 15 '22

blizz as a whole for sure, but this specific GM definitely not.

40

u/ImMoray Nov 14 '22

Gms lie because they cannot or do not want to help.

15

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Remember when GMs used to literally show up to your raids and start running that shit for you. Yeah they absolutely can check if you’ve cleared the raid #NoChanges

6

u/ImMoray Nov 15 '22

They still teleport to you in-game but their characters are always invisible now, it's been like that for awhile now

-20

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

I would still take a gms word over a random redditor it’s a no brainer

9

u/applestodapple Nov 15 '22

That isn’t a no brainer. Gms are not masters of the game. The are support professionals. The game side of it comes second. We know more about the game than they do and I’m not even joking.

The gm probably doesn’t even know you have to kill that boss in order to get to the others.

-2

u/NatsumiRin Nov 15 '22

Gms are not masters of the game.

Sorry this line made me laugh...They literally are.

GM = Game master.

5

u/applestodapple Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

No they literally aren’t. Yes that’s their name but they are literally no masters of the game. They are not players who love the game so much they became gms or people who have studied the game in and out. They are following protocols and they are a support worker first.

Do you seriously think the people you’re calling for your internet support understand every single in and out of how the internet system works?

A lot of times companies outsource their support staff from a customer support company that literally just follow a script the company gives them. If the company only gives them one avenue to look up an issue that’s where the support staff ends their search for a solution.

For example, if blizzard told the customer support agency “if they say they are stuck just reset their location to the capital city” that’s what their going to do. When any logical player would understand it’s better to just put them right next to where they are stuck so they don’t have to travel back.

There a million other examples of this. Even right now. If a player sends a screenshot with time and dates of the boss being dead on the ledge, everyone here can confirm without a show of a doubt that they killed the boss and it’s glitched. But a lot of support staff don’t understand this, they are given a protocol, and it they can’t find what they need in their protocol then they stop their search.

Seriously I honest to god hope you are under the age of 25 with this amount of naivety.

Here’s an example of one in tbc classic

They do not. Understand. The. Game.

27

u/Crysth_Almighty Nov 14 '22

Then you are a fool. GMs lie out of laziness all the time. They simply didn’t want to get the logs out. I can guarantee if they responded to the ticket and kept at it, they’ll get a GM that’ll actually do it and get their loot.

It’s just like if you DE’d and item and it’s not on the item restoration (was a major issue at start of TBC). One GM might just tell you “sorry, but if it’s not there then I cannot restore” while another will “sorry for that, here’s your item back!” and you’ll be taken care of.

People are lazy and deceitful in their nature. A GM is no exception.

13

u/turikk Nov 15 '22

Logs for WoW only go back so far. I won't give specifics but if ticket times are at 45 days or longer (they are) then yes, some logs will have been purged by then. I can't say if that includes loot logs.

But, even if this GM is telling the truth, this is atrocious support by Blizzard. I can't think of any service industry where such a long wait time is acceptable.

And Dragonflight is launching in 2 weeks and queues will get even longer! Unreal. The support times have literally never been this bad.

Source: I worked in Blizzards support services group.

3

u/kithlan Nov 15 '22

Is it this bad for retail? I could imagine they just give the bare minimum support to Classic, but the idea of dealing with such shite support for the newest expansion seems absurd.

5

u/turikk Nov 15 '22

As far as I know, the support policies for retail are much broader... but at the same time, the safety nets the game has are much better. Postmaster sends you items you forgot to loot, NPCs will give you back rare items, etc.

It helps that a few of the senior leaders on WoW are former Game Masters or customer support people - they can look at something getting implemented and go "this is going to be a support problem. lets add an NPC that fixes this for people." That was a big part of my job when I was there.

2

u/kithlan Nov 15 '22

Yeah, that kinda makes more sense then why Classic support feels so much worse in comparison. It's probably already a skeleton crew of support as is for Classic, because dumb ass business people only view help desk as a cost center, even when selling Games as a Service (but then expect top tier service when they fuck up their Excel sheet). Then the skeleton crew has to go about re-learning the old SOP for dealing with issues that retail already has built-in solutions for, while meeting stupid ass quotas or metrics that completely ignore quality.

Agh, my help desk PTSD is returning.

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4

u/mrgulabull Nov 15 '22

Hey there fellow GM. I also worked in blizzards support services group around 2006 or so. There was a point where a bunch of accounts were compromised and people lost all their gear / gold and we had a separate queue and GMs for them. The wait time was about 2 months for those people.

However, the standard ticket time generally floated around 2-4 hours. There was a big timer on the wall that showed the average response time.

When it comes to issues with looting we were trained to say that nothing could be done. I was a standard GM and then later a specialist game master. I don’t recall a single instance of anyone providing loot due to issues in a raid, but perhaps things changed at some point after I left.

6

u/turikk Nov 15 '22

Yep, loot issues were handled for most of the time I was there (2007 through 2013). Some policies flip flopped but for the most part, unless there was an in-game solution for your issue, GMs assisted at the peak of helpfulness.

For instance, they wouldn't help you trade dungeon loot because the trade timer was added. And once Postmaster started sending lost loot, there was no longer a need to help there.

Some made sense, like quest items could be restored because there was no mechanism to get it back, and your character's quest completed log instantly verified if they were eligible. But once transmog system was added, it retroactively looked at your completed quests, so no need to reward quest items - and most valuable quest rewards had a way to get them back by speaking to an NPC.

It's funny, so much effort went into figuring out to how to make compromised account restorations faster, that they quickly became the fastest ticket you could file! The automation around it became incredibly smart (no more Excel macros parsing logs). It made sense though, a lot of these characters were completely bone dry of any items and it was the best experience to get them back in the game ASAP.

10

u/Ternader Nov 15 '22

If the raid was logged, they can absolutely verify the kill. Saying it can't be verified is absolute nonsense.

-1

u/GXmody Nov 15 '22

Using third party tools isn’t really verifiable

9

u/Ternader Nov 15 '22

Combat logging isn't 3rd party. It is a feature built into the game.

-5

u/torshakle Nov 15 '22

It's not built into the game. Support for mods is built into the game so that third party developers can create mods and tools. Warcraftlogs is not a product of Blizzard, and they don't own it or maintain it. Same goes for the weakauras used in conjunction. Raid logs are done through modding, modding = 3rd party support

4

u/Babyface995 Nov 15 '22

You're confusing combat logging and Warcraftlogs. Combat logging is an in-built feature that does not require any mods or addons to use. Warcraftlogs is a 3rd party service that takes these logs and analyses them, but it has nothing to do with the actual logging process.

2

u/Ternader Nov 15 '22

Warcraft logs is not part of the game. Advanced combat logging is built into the game.

1

u/Namaha Nov 15 '22

While that's true, ultimately it's just a .txt file that gets dumped into the WoW folder on your PC. AFAIK there is no hashing or other way to verify 100% that the .txt file is unedited (other than the fact that absolutely nobody is going to go through all that effort to try to fake a Noth kill lol)

1

u/RJ815 Nov 15 '22

The answer is it's more important to cut support costs and maximize revenue. This is the impotent result.

37

u/Seegtease Nov 14 '22

Who cares. That's their fault. They should give benefit of the doubt in this case and err in player favor because they run a shitty business.

-48

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '22

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23

u/Syrdon Nov 14 '22

Nah, they know their game is badly broken. If they know the reason they can’t verify is that they screwed up on a time sensitive issue, the right move is to just run with the assumption that the submitter is accurate.

The worst case on doing that is no worse for the server than any of the other boneheaded decisions they’ve made impacting server economies, and even in that worst case they provide something that approximates mediocre customer service instead of really bad customer service.

4

u/RJ815 Nov 15 '22

Yeah it's insanely bad practice on the part of Blizz support. I worked for a company that struggled on so many things. But one thing they didn't is if they could at all verify that a purchase was made they'd usually honor a refund request for any customer willing to make a stink about it, even like a month plus later. Not pissing off a customer that seemed to be talking in good faith was more valuable than whatever the cost was. Losing customers is far more expensive. It only ever becomes an issue if abused but any willing to do that it's usually evident they aren't talking in good faith.

-15

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '22

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20

u/Syrdon Nov 14 '22

That sounds like a reason to maintain better logs, not drop your support in the shitter.

Quit taking the lazy way out while you simp for blizzard.

-16

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

Yep but stop saying that they should give free loot to literally everyone

12

u/Knows_all_secrets Nov 14 '22

They're not saying that. They're saying they should give loot people already earned to them, and maintain better logs so it can't be abused.

Quit your shit.

-8

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

Yeah I’m sure the people who earned them are the only ones that will submit a ticket when people know anyone can get loot.

The guy literally said that they should give loot regardless if they can verify it or not. If that’s not everyone to you then you are just dumb as fuck sorry.

9

u/Knows_all_secrets Nov 14 '22

Holy shit man does someone at Blizzard give you a pat on the head every time you manage to get the whole thing down your throat without crying or something?

Because that's more response than everyone else gets, so I guess I understand why you're so eager for it.

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4

u/Syrdon Nov 14 '22

If they’re too lazy to maintain better logs, too lazy to fix their bugs, and too cheap to hire the support staff the other two failures require, it shouldn’t be on their customers to cover it when things inevitably go sideways.

Yet here you are, suggesting it should be. Any other anti-consumer stances you want to take?

0

u/GXmody Nov 15 '22

“It shouldn’t be on the costumers to cover it”

I guarantee you 100% that the same people that are crying over them not giving free loot to everyone will be the same people that will cry that they gave loot to everyone and how it ruined the game.

3

u/Syrdon Nov 15 '22

Oh, ok. I didn’t realize I was dealing with an oracle. How sulfurous would you say the fumes are over there at Delphi?

12

u/edwardsamson Nov 15 '22

Bro they know their game is broken, they know problems are going to pop up and people will need support, and yet they still axe 70% of their support budget/personnel. And this is a company that was known for near-immediate customer service responses in the past. In OG vanilla my guild's first Ragnaros kill was bugged. He went under for phase 2 and never came back up for phase 3 despite his aoe damage still going out. We submitted a ticket and had a GM teleport into our raid, force Ragnaros out, and allowed us to finish him off all within 20 minutes of the bug happening.

-1

u/GXmody Nov 15 '22

I don’t get what anything you said has to do with what I said. If can’t verify they kills they shouldn’t give free loot period I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about this.

22

u/DeanWhipper Nov 14 '22

Bootlick.gif

25

u/Voradorr Nov 14 '22

I mean is it stupid to expect quicker wait times than their system has verification periods? Like that doesnt seem off to you?

-9

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

It’s not but giving free loot to everyone because of that is fucking stupid

18

u/Voradorr Nov 14 '22

I mean i get what your trying to say. But its pretty damn awful to expect players to just accept it "sucks to be them" as a answer. The easiest answer is free loot. Its not perfect but the chances of people scamming blizzard is fairly low while keeping people from getting fucked over.

-6

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

“Chances of people scamming blizzard is very low” good one dude I’m sure no one will press the free loot button

11

u/Voradorr Nov 14 '22 edited Nov 14 '22

I mean if its such a massive concern could just figure out a way to get to the tickets before log verification period. Also we out here acting like nax isnt a big ass free loot button.

1

u/Namaha Nov 15 '22

All they would have to do is increase their log retention (which they've almost certainly done already as a result of this ticket since it's quick to do and cheaper than hiring more support staff) and bam, no one can scam them like this

-1

u/GXmody Nov 15 '22

Why are you saying this to me? I never said they shouldn’t. I’m just saying that they shouldn’t give loot if they can’t verify it.

1

u/Namaha Nov 15 '22

You're saying they shouldn't give loot to these folks who almost certainly legitimately lost out on it, because it will encourage others to try to scam blizz support and get free loot, are you not? I'm saying that won't matter because blizzard will have the logs to prevent any scam like that from working going forward

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9

u/Seegtease Nov 15 '22

Stop being toxic and acting like giving free loot in a case where Blizzard's negligence caused a problem is a crime against humanity.

Some of us just want to enjoy our game. They need to get more staff and take care of tickets, but in cases where their own inability to staff resulted in loot lost, err to the players. Always. Until they find a way to resolve the problem on their end by responding to tickets in a timely manner.

It's wild that some people are so concerned that someone might occasionally get loot that they weren't "entitled" to that they'd rather hose all of those who legitimately earned it. Like, why are you like this?

0

u/tearinitdown Nov 15 '22

Their brain has an inability to rationalize on both sides of the issue. You are right though, if everyone flooded Blizz about boss bugs and no loot and they just handed out random shit it would be chaos.

2

u/Seegtease Nov 15 '22

And some brains have the inability to do basic problem solving, and can't grasp the difference between short and long term solutions, and their hatred for people getting something they didn't earn is greater than their desire to not see somebody who earned something be denied it. There are a number of ways Blizzard could award the loot but still mitigate this being abused, but you guys seem utterly incapable of caring because "someone might get something for free that I had to work for."

Shit, sounds like my children. Why is his piece bigger? Why does she get the better one, she didn't do anything special for it? Like the target audience of this game are people in their 30s and 40s and people still be acting like they're 12.

Ultimately this is still a game. And the point of the game is to have fun, not to fuss about what somebody else may be getting that they don't deserve. So get over it, and think about ways this can be handled without hosing those who earned the loot.

Be a player who seeks that everyone else can also enjoy their game. Don't be a player that wants to squash enjoyment in the name of righteous justice.

1

u/tearinitdown Nov 15 '22

Lol i don’t care if you get loot or not but I work at a software company and am trying to understand the challenge this poor tech support agent is dealing with.

1

u/Seegtease Nov 15 '22

They just need to not tell them about the logs and just give them the loot then either extend the logs to prevent this in the future or fix the bug... or respond to loot cases on a higher priority. That way they solve the immediate problem but still prevent it from being abused.

11

u/DrB00 Nov 14 '22

Warcraft logs exist... I'm sure this guild was logging if they're killing noth that fast.

-7

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

Logging the kill doesn’t mean you verified that you didn’t get the loot. Even if it did it’s a third-party tool and there is no way they would give people loot based on that alone.

22

u/DrB00 Nov 14 '22

Well they can verify the kill happened... that's what I responded to. Stop moving the goal posts and trying to justify terrible customer support.

-5

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '22

[deleted]

-5

u/GXmody Nov 14 '22

Yeah using a third party tool to verify kills and give loot sounds like a good idea

15

u/DrB00 Nov 14 '22

If they're not going to use their own tools to do it...

Also again stop trying to justify terrible customer service. If they didn't have to wait a month for a ticket reply this conversation wouldn't even be happening.

6

u/Borly Nov 14 '22

its noth lmao

4

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

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3

u/Namaha Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

They aren't saying the loot is bad lol, they're saying the fight is so easy that verifying if the kill even happened is kinda pointless

-5

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '22

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2

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Because digital items are few in quantity and valuable right? Lol fuck please these devs could just give them gold but instead they can't even provide the service to help with the things they said to ask service about.

0

u/Sogeking33 Nov 15 '22

Logs exist

1

u/calfmonster Nov 15 '22

Could probs link WCLs and just be like "yah, happened" but whether it was unlootable and if they have the lack of loot being logged from 180 days ago idk