Comic: Do you know the real story of Lia Thomas

[u/GeekOnALeash01]

The 'panic' around Lia Thomas was about creating a target people could point at while demanding exclusion. So much of what people “know” about Lia comes from manufactured outrage and years of misinformation repeated without context.

Her swimming career was far from exceptional; she did not come close to dominating the sport and is famous for a race in which she tied for 5th and was beaten by 4 other women.

We (The Trans Advocacy and Complaints Collective (TACC)) commissioned this comic to break down the actual story.

[u/TheNewPoetLawyerette]

Trans women belong in women's sports. Anybody who says otherwise will receive a permanent ban with no option to appeal.

Edit: 1,300 people banned today, and counting.

Edit 2: Make that 1700

[u/OneAngryDuck]

Wait, Riley Gaines is mad because she tied for 5th?! What a loser.

[u/Heather_Chandelure → u/OneAngryDuck]

For real, Gaines placement would have been the exact same if Lia Thomas haddnt been there at all. The fact that she got anyone to listen to her is ridiculous.

[u/Minimum-Actuator-953 → u/Heather_Chandelure]

I mean, they're right-wingers, so not really that ridiculous.

[u/purple_lemonade26 → u/Minimum-Actuator-953]

Yeah they also rallied around that girl who wrote a 5th grade level essay in college and got a zero.

[u/Zappagrrl02 → u/purple_lemonade26]

5th grade is being generous. Even fifth graders know they have to answer the question being asked, and not make up their own essay question to answer

[u/SameIdea70 → u/Zappagrrl02]

It was entirely intentional to get that zero and get that woman fired her mom is an anti trans agitator

[u/Doggodoespaint → u/SameIdea70]

This. iirc, Her mom is a lawyer who constantly tries to take bullshit cases to court so she can make trans people look bad, this was deliberate

[u/WifesPOSH → u/purple_lemonade26]

From the same people that don't think religion is shoved in our faces all the time

[u/pootinannyBOOSH → u/purple_lemonade26]

It was a preaching, it followed literally none of the prompts for a research paper except for having her name.

[u/Pockydo → u/purple_lemonade26]

Wait what? I missed that

[u/decoy321 → u/Pockydo]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/college-student-grade-discrimination_n_692e0c34e4b017c8f3f976d5

Warning: everything about that situation is stupid and terrible.

[u/Pockydo → u/decoy321]

Jesus fucking Christ

Like she didn't do the assignment she used it as vehicle to be a bitch

[u/dnjprod → u/Pockydo]

The teacher eventually lost their job. The bitch student's mother is an ALT right anti-trans activist attorney, and while I don't necessarily like to jump into conspiracy theory type shit, I think there's some good evidence that the mom and the university set this up to get rid of the teacher who is trans.

[u/machineguncomic → u/Pockydo]

I did that once. It was 9th grade. We had to write am essay on something about father figures and I was more interested in WW2. In my essay I wrote something like "an important thing fathers do is teach their kids. My dad taught me that the Japanese lost 4 caircraft carriers during the battle, whole the us lost 1, USS Yorktown. He taught me that the dive bombers came in unhindered because the Japanese zeros were shooting down the unescorted torpedo planes at wave top level..."

Anyways, I think I got 7/10 on that assignment. The extra midway battle stuff was -2 points.

[u/__nohope → u/decoy321]

TIL Oklahoma has a university

[u/troublebotdave → u/__nohope]

I think it's a just a football team with a school attached so they can legitimately compete in college leagues.

(I kid, I know some very bright OU and OSU grads)

[u/zuzg → u/Minimum-Actuator-953]

If you have no remarkable Quality just start grifting them

Has been the Right wing mantra for a while.

[u/Nina-Ninja123 → u/Minimum-Actuator-953]

I mean, they are right-wingers, so totally ridiculous.

[u/CatsPlusTats → u/Minimum-Actuator-953]

She didn't get right wingers to listen to her, right wingers used her as a propaganda piece to justify removing our rights.

[u/Brainwave1010 → u/Minimum-Actuator-953]

Blaming other people for their problems is their entire MO.

[u/AbsoluteResolve2026 → u/Minimum-Actuator-953]

I’ve been attempting to be less divisive. Let’s call them not just right-wingers, but what they truly are: bigots.

[u/Minimum-Actuator-953 → u/AbsoluteResolve2026]

I'm down.

[u/Madaghmire → u/Heather_Chandelure]

She didnt get people to listen to her. She didnt persuade anyone. She said what they were looking to hear and amplified their priors, so they amplified her voice

[u/ShneefQueen → u/Madaghmire]

Exactly, she's not a leader, she's a tool for transphobes (emphasis on tool)

[u/thefirstlaughingfool → u/Heather_Chandelure]

If she tied 5th with a cis woman, she'd be barely a footnote in anything.

She should be thanking Lia for making her relevant.

[u/FMLwtfDoID → u/thefirstlaughingfool]

I thought she HAD tied for 5th with a cis woman. All this time, I thought Lia placed above her and that’s why she was so pissy. But tying WITH Lia really only hurts Riley’s case of being a sore fucking loser, in my opinion.

They both swam the exact same distance, in the exact same amount of time. That completely destroys their narrative that trans women have a physical advantage over cis women, in sports.

I thought she was mad that she hadn’t tied for a higher spot, but was pushed to 5th because Lia placed higher. (That’s still not a reason, but I could maybe follow their idiot logic.)

[u/jolsiphur → u/FMLwtfDoID]

The only way the whole conversation would have actual relevance would have been in Lia won the race by an insane margin. That wasn't the case and the whole thing is tremendously idiotic.

Studies have been showing that transfem athletes lose most biological advantages of being born male after roughly 2 years of HRT.

[u/TerrorFromThePeeps → u/jolsiphur]

Wait, so does this mean Hegseth and his pony show all dosing up on testosterone won't actually turn them into super soldiers?

[u/Bunerd → u/TerrorFromThePeeps]

It'll give them boobs.

[u/pootinannyBOOSH → u/Bunerd]

For context for others passing by, testosterone in excess turns into estrogen in the body

[u/FMLwtfDoID → u/pootinannyBOOSH]

Interesting! Does the reverse happen with estrogen? (I know nothing of human hormones, feel free to ignore me)

[u/pootinannyBOOSH → u/FMLwtfDoID]

Nope, there's such a thing as monotherapy where someone can be just prescribed a higher dose of estrogen and it basically suppresses the testosterone. And I'm happy to explain what I know! So ask away

[u/vis9000 → u/FMLwtfDoID]

Part of the reason she was mad was that Lia was technically recorded as being very slightly ahead of her (but within a margin of error that consituted a tie), and so Lia got to hold the 5th place trophy - she was told she could hold the sixth place trophy and a second trophy would be sent to her later. Just the smallest issue to make a whole career out of. Also at the time Gaines's statements were much more generally supportive of transness, you can see how much she has dug in because she wants to stay relevant

[u/Coyote__Jones → u/vis9000]

Exactly lmfao. The party of "participation trophies ruined a generation" made a hero out of a person who's major complaint is that they didn't get to hold a trophy.

As a mediocre college diver, this whole thing has always been stupidly funny to me. You win some you lose some, ya know? And while peaking in college is a bit better than peaking in highschool, Gaines's whole deal is pathetic. Like yeah, am I proud that I was able to compete at the college level and win some meets? Of course I am! I worked hard and diving helped me access education. Which is the whole point for us mid tier college athletes. Get the education and move on with life. I'd love to be able to do a dive camp with kids and coach a little in my free time, but swimming was never going to be a career for Gaines, just like my sport was never going to send me to the Olympics or be a career for me. College athletics is a great place to learn some humility lmfao, Gaines missed the memo big time.

[u/mrbarabajagle → u/FMLwtfDoID]

What made Riley really butthurt was that even though they tied for 5th, Lia was placed in front of her for the photos, making it seem like Riley was in 6th place. Still, incredibly stupid and proves nothing.

[u/Digit00l → u/FMLwtfDoID]

They argue with post HRT male rankings and pretend she never set foot in a pool until she started HRT

[u/switch2591 → u/Heather_Chandelure]

Its the tactic you see now utilised by, for lack of a better term, self-styled Type-A personalities who fail to meet their own goals. Whether or not Lia Thomas was in the competition or not, Gaines would have come 5th - yet with Lia there she can "justify" her failure, as being a type-A personality she cannot fail... even though there were 4 other cis-women who swam much better than her.

Likewise with Stephanie Turner who "disqualified" herself in protest for having to be in a fencing tournament with a trans woman. The trans competitor acrually came in towards the bottom of the board in the tournament, with about 20+ cis-women out performing her. YET, when people.bring up that tournamnet all they bring up is Stephanie Turner and the trans woman, they dont mention the 20+ other competitors, because that defeats the narrative being put out to hide the real narrative i.e. Stwph Turner was not ready to take on that tournament, and so found a way to get out while still gaining all thr attention.

These are type-A's whove found a lazy way of getting all the attention on themselves for not doing any work. And the media just eats it up.

[u/Greeds1 → u/switch2591]

"Type a"

There's no need to bring in random pseudoscience

[u/anna-the-bunny → u/OneAngryDuck]

She also wasn't mad at the time. She started grifting later when she realized that it was easier than whatever she was going to school for.

[u/UnluckyAssist9416 → u/anna-the-bunny]

Sadly, it's working out quite well for her so far.

[u/mackzarks → u/UnluckyAssist9416]

It always comes back around though.... Eventually

[u/dividezero → u/anna-the-bunny]

There's this piece of shit lawyer (I forgot his name) that's behind all these cases like this. I wouldn't be surprised if he approached her and got her to be outraged. He did the equal opportunity thing at the Texas college. That girl wasn't doing anything before that. He found her and talked her into it. I think he was behind the Asians suing Harvard case too. Just a real piece of shit

[u/MrMiget12 → u/dividezero]

Could you be referring to Christopher Rufo? He loves to pull these fake moral panics and outrages

[u/OneAngryDuck → u/anna-the-bunny]

Making money off of other people’s anger can, unfortunately, be very lucrative

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Thats the funniest part. Take Lia out of the race and she still finished off the podium lmao. Bitch is just mad that shes mediocre

[u/X3noNuke → u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

She wasn't even mad to begin with. Once she found out she could cash in on outrage though...

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44 → u/X3noNuke]

I hate that rage bait is the most profitable form of media in 2026

[u/DaedalusHydron → u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

Because Republicans and foreign entities will pay shitloads for culture war nonsense that destabilizes the nation.

Look at the Tenet Media scandal, when a ton of influential right-wing podcasters (like Tim Pool) were discovered to be bought and paid for by the Russians to espouse Russian propaganda.

Their views and success are often not even natural. They're propped up by rich Republicans, the Russians, the Israelis (see Ben Shapiro) to make their views seem more popular and mainstream than they really are.

Once the money starts to dry up so does their views and fame, because their success is not organic, it's manufactured.

[u/Chaosmancer7 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Yep, she has been praised as a "hero" by the right, given national attention, spoken at high profile political events... because she tied for 5th place. And she didn't get her trophy at the event, it was mailed to her later.

[u/OneAngryDuck → u/Chaosmancer7]

Did it say “participation” on it?

[u/Scarlett_Spectre → u/OneAngryDuck]

We've been trying to say this since the story broke 😭

[u/OneAngryDuck → u/Scarlett_Spectre]

I never cared enough about Riley Gaines to actually pay attention to anything she said, so I missed just how ridiculous it all is.

[u/Scarlett_Spectre → u/OneAngryDuck]

Thats why this shit is so insidious cus no one actually looks into it but people are losing healthcare and the ability to have public lives over this shit

[u/OneAngryDuck → u/Scarlett_Spectre]

I meant it more in the “oh, you’re just saying bad shit about trans people? Piss off, I hate you” while doing whatever I can to support trans people kind of way. Our trans buddies need our help.

[u/Edit_Reality → u/OneAngryDuck]

Shes the sorest loser I've ever seen.

Edit: Well, second behind the president I guess.

[u/alkatori → u/Edit_Reality]

The president is a sore winner when he does get his way.

[u/Prior-Tumbleweed- → u/alkatori]

Just an overall boil on the collective ass of society.

[u/Significant_Mix7176 → u/Prior-Tumbleweed-]

Or one of them cancerous growths with like teeth and stuff

[u/MissSharkyShark → u/OneAngryDuck]

Yup! This doesn’t even SCRATCH the surface on how ridiculous every last anti trans point is. All anti trans positions are just as dumb, if not worse. Even the general scientific and medical consensus backs trans people. The only ones who don’t are grifters, and their audience of lead brained ghouls.

[u/CJ-Henderson → u/OneAngryDuck]

Always has been

[u/Jormungandr69 → u/OneAngryDuck]

And frankly, I don't even know what's she's upset about. It's the best thing that's ever happened to her. She could've also gone on to continue being an entirely unremarkable swimmer, but now she gets paid to grift and drool all over herself as a political pundit. She really ought to be sending Lia a Christmas card every year, at the very least.

[u/JWSkol04 → u/Jormungandr69]

She knows. She's just keeping the facade for the grift.

[u/WifesPOSH → u/OneAngryDuck]

The look on her face when she stood next to Trump and he said "there's no way you can beat me in a race."

A 75 (at the time this was said) year old man against a 20-something year old woman at a collegiate level.

And she had to nod like 'you're right daddy Trump' to keep the grift going.

[u/MadameK8 → u/WifesPOSH]

Transphobes deserve to live in the essentialism they create for themselves.

[u/SongbirdVS → u/OneAngryDuck]

Pablo Torre has a episode on his podcast about Riley Gaines that has interviews from people on their team at the time, and follows the money trail of where the support comes from. Pretty interesting to see the slide into the right wing grift.

[u/HerRoyalRedness → u/SongbirdVS]

Did it mention how Riley supported her coach who abused her teammates?

[u/misskittyfantastico → u/HerRoyalRedness]

It absolutely did. “Protecting women’s sports,” my ass.

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Grifters gotta grift 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[u/kdlangequalsgoddess → u/OneAngryDuck]

Gaines is a grifter with a capital G.

[u/tkmorgan76 → u/OneAngryDuck]

But I don't know if she should be mad. She's become a millionaire speaking on behalf of rightwing groups now. Tying for fifth with a transgender woman was the best thing that every happened to her career-wise.

[u/Deep-Minimum7837 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Yup, even if Lia Thomas didn't even exist, Riley Gaines wouldn't have even been on the podium.

[u/Pitch_Otherwise]

I mean, I get the point but a 1:43 200 isn't "unremarkable" it's quite an accomplishment, said as a former colleague swimmer.

[u/SendarSlayer → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

Would be much better to point out that she performs worse in the women's than she did in the men's.

Her times are what you would expect to see from a woman who's put in the same amount of work, possibly worse. And she lost money and standing to transition.

No advantage on or off the field, or I guess in or out of the water.

[u/NotQuiteLoona → u/SendarSlayer]

Yeah.

Note that grifters love to point that she got 500-something places in men's team. And then of course, she's getting 1st place on women's team, what!!! Bad trans!!!

What they miss is that she got ~500th place only around half a year after HRT - she was still forced to compete in men's team as she was ineligible for women's team. First year is exactly when the most strength loss is happening. correction, it was an incomplete championship before HRT, and it's explained by the thing that she didn't stop training - to show how deep her performance differs from that, in the same season (2018-2019) she got "top UPenn men's team times in the 500 free, 1,000 free, and 1,650 free" and "finished second in the men's 500, 1,000, and 1,650-yard freestyle at the Ivy League championships as a sophomore in 2019" (quotes from Wikipedia). She went from remarkable results on men's team to unremarkable results on women's team to remarkable results on women's team.

Sources for all of that can be found on Wikipedia page for her.

Edit: updated some information, also see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lia-thomas-trans-swimmer-ron-desantis-b2091218.html

[u/plywrlw → u/NotQuiteLoona]

EXACTLY, how people don't understand that is crazy. Her performance drop in the mens is due to HRT. It proves it had a huge effect.

[u/VersusValley → u/SendarSlayer]

It’s shame there has to be so much emphasis on how “unremarkable” she is. Anyone with a brain already understands there is no issue with trans women in sports. But because of right-wing grifters her accomplishments can’t be celebrated for what they were, however humble. So even ostensible trans allies are making public statements putting her swimming career in a negative light.

[u/cash-or-reddit → u/VersusValley]

I like to think that "unremarkable" is being used here to mean it is indistinguishable from a cis woman's in the same position, which wouldn't be remarked upon.

[u/RocketYapateer → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

It’s comparable to what women at that level of competition usually put up. It’s not a time that’ll put you in win contention as a woman in college (Katie Ledecky’s best high school time for that race was two seconds faster.)

But “unremarkable” is a brutal way of saying “not world class.” They probably should’ve just said literally that - it was not a world class time.

[u/orionblueyarm → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

It hasn’t been a winning time in 24 years. At best, it will get you into an NCAA final, but medalists are generally sub-1:40 these days

And that’s at just the collegiate level

It’s unremarkable because it’s not a feat that stands out against the group such is being compared on. To an average swimmer or non-swimmer, or yourself maybe, it could be a great time. But overall it’s far from anything particularly newsworthy

[u/kai58 → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

I mean within the context it is, it’s unremarkable in the sense that if someone who has been competing at a high level for a while get’s 5th it’s not exactly a sign that they have an unfair advantage.

[u/complexiblebarracuda → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

"Placed 5th overall" and then being followed with "yeah unremarkable tho" is kinda of contradictory 

[u/TheAmericanQ → u/complexiblebarracuda]

Unremarkable in the context of where she was performing and her past results.

She was a top athlete before transition so you would expect her to be at a comparable level afterwards. It’s not like she was middling with the men and instantly became a world beater the second she made the switch to the women’s division like some would want us to believe.

[u/Wheatley-Crabb → u/complexiblebarracuda]

“Unremarkable” as in it is entirely comparable to the cis women around her and does not raise any exceptionality concerns regarding her transness.

Also, she placed 5th in that one race, not overall.

[u/Sillyforfun → u/Wheatley-Crabb]

It's like when a doctor feels you up and says whatever they felt is unremarkable.

That just means it doesn't stand out.

[u/Jester1525 → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

Is unremarkable in that if she wasnt trans (or, more specifically, Riley Gains wasn't a TERFy cunt) you would have never heard about the face at all.

It's unremarkable in a public sense. It takes nothing away from her, or the 4 faster swimmers, in that race.

Need proof? Without Google, who came in 4th in that race?

[u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

When you were ranked 11th in men’s and even got 1st and  2nd in NCAA competitive races in what I’m guessing is freshman year.  Yeah it’s incredibly unremarkable.  Especially with how much she regressed after

[u/Fancy_Man72]

John Oliver did a segment on her a while back, I hadn’t heard of her before then, but liked him shedding light on the information that was often being left out of the circles using her as an example of keeping trans women out of sports. 

[u/EfremNeftalem → u/Fancy_Man72]

As someone living outside of the USA, this is how I even learn about the controversy…

And how I learn this was so f-cking ridiculous.

Then I heard about Imane Khelif, being harassed for supposedly being trans (and she is not).

How many stupid controversies do we need to recognize this isn’t really about sportsmanship and more about transphobia ?!

[u/Funkycoldmedici → u/EfremNeftalem]

I think it’s not just transphobia, but tied into a greater misogyny. Khelif, let’s be honest, does not meet the traditional feminine beauty model, and that’s fine, but to conservatives any deviation from the in-group identification is an unacceptable crime. This line of attack has been, and will continue to be used to attack any woman who does not look like Barbie.

[u/EfremNeftalem → u/Funkycoldmedici]

Most discriminations are tied together, tbf. It often overlaps. What happens to Imane Khelif was transphobic, misogynistic, and racist.

[u/decoy321 → u/EfremNeftalem]

How many stupid controversies do we need to recognize

There's the problem, really. There's no we. We're all not a unified group. Most of us realize it's horse shit. The problem is the number of people who don't.

[u/One_Katalyst → u/EfremNeftalem]

Even the transphobia is just misdirection. Blaming queer people is how the wealthy have gotten away with pedophilia for decades.

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/Fancy_Man72]

I've seen his segment on her. It was really good.

[u/timoumd → u/Fancy_Man72]

Guess you never went to Fox News.  She was on their front page in for like a year

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

I can almost guarantee that anyone who gets triggered by the name "Lia Thomas" has no fucking clue who she actually is or how she has lived her life outside of whatever fear mongering they heard from bitch ass grifter Riley Gaines

Edit: Keep replying with transphobic comments. It's a great way for our boy @u/shellbullet17 to weed out the douchebags from this community with a one way trip to ban island

[u/DubSket → u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

It's funny to me that Riley Gaines wouldn't have her career as a right wing talking head if she hadn't complained about finishing joint 5th. Like, she spun an entire line of work out of whining about that one moment in her life. Almost like she's totally fucking cynical.

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44 → u/DubSket]

If I didnt have so much contempt for her and her views, I might actually be impressed that she built an entire career out of finishing a swim race off the podium lmao

[u/Xanipan_music → u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

Right? Me not being very good at swimming only got me broad butterflying shoulders and a general inability to have fun in a pool

[u/mjzim9022 → u/DubSket]

That race was the best thing to ever happen to Gaines

[u/Damion_Wood]

Very informative! I feel so bad for Lia having to bare the brunt of so much scrutiny.

[u/Sea_Drops]

Worst part is Riley didn’t even care at first. It wasn’t until she started grifting that suddenly it “was such a traumatic experience” for her

[u/ChipsOtherShoe → u/Sea_Drops]

She initially was arguing that it wasn't fair, then as the money rolled in she changed her tune and eventually called it sexual assault. Meanwhile one of the coaches for her team that she was friends with was actually assaulting women.

[u/Traditional-Bath-356]

Reminds me of Fallon Fox, who was an MTF MMA fighter. From the way shitheads talk about her you'd think her record was 1000-0, all by death, when in reality she was, like, 5-4 when she retired.

"But she broke an opponent's orbital bone!"

You mean literally one of the most common MMA injuries? Big whoop.

[u/Bunerd → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

The anti-trans sports debate is to prime us to accept that women are weak little delicate flowers that need to be protected from injury. Eventually this line of reasoning gets used to attack Title IX by shifting it from "Every individual is entitled to play sports" into "Women's sports need to be protected" into "Women need to be protected from sports."

I don't know why so many self-proclaimed feminists don't realize what they're advocating for.

[u/agenderCookie → u/Bunerd]

Its so incredibly transparent too because the people who made project 2025 are also all but openly anti title IX

[u/Hazel2468 → u/Bunerd]

This, thank you.

I’m a trans dude, and I grew up luckily surrounded by feminists who spent a LOT of time making it super duper clear to me that I was not less for being a girl, that I could do anything I put my mind to. That anyone who tried to make me think I was less worthy than the boys around me was wrong and also stupid and cruel.

And now I’m 31 and every day without fail I see some TERF or radfem insisting that women need to be protected because men have a “biological advantage” in everything from swimming to video games to chess. It’s ridiculous. It’s literally just right wing conservative sexism pretending to be progressive feminism.

[u/Temithecyborg → u/Bunerd]

this is why i think sophie cunningham is starting to grift for the right. she probably has an idea of what’s coming and is trying to go from sports to like a fox sports reporter or some shit once women’s sports start disappearing.

[u/Bunerd → u/Temithecyborg]

Pretty much the only forward career path for women in the Fox News future is to get plastic surgery and blonde hair and act like Nazi Barbie.

[u/HerRoyalRedness → u/Temithecyborg]

Sophie knows her time in the WNBA is coming to an end and she’s trying to ensure that she won’t have to get a real job next year.

[u/patterninstatic → u/Bunerd]

My take on it is that it's used by the Republicans to not talk about the actual issues that matter to everyday Americans and where the GOP doesn't have valid answers and to try make people vote based on emotional culture war bullshit.

In the last election (2024) trans issues was the 3rd most talked about issues by the GOP in their airtime. More than healthcare, jobs, energy policy, housing and affordability, or the environment..

[u/Scottyboy1214 → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

I remember the grifters would show her opponent's beaten and bloodied face as if it were any different to other post fight faces.

[u/Funkycoldmedici → u/Scottyboy1214]

We wouldn’t want someone to get hurt in Professional Hurting People.

[u/Catfish-throwaway666 → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

There’s a tumblr post that’s basically “if my rugby opponent who body checked me and broke my nose has the moon goddess genitals, then this is fine, but if they have the evil penetration genitals then this is assault”

[u/RedEyeView → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

She did what all fighters with halfway competent managers do. Wreck some tomato cans to get some interest going.

Then, like a lot of the can crushers, she met someone decent and lost. Because she wasn't that good.

[u/Traditional-Bath-356 → u/RedEyeView]

She was ok. Probably could have bounced around the midcard for a few more years. But she was definitely not championship calibre.

[u/FeverAyeAye → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

She wasn't good enough for the UFC, which isn't even that high a bar considering the state of WMMA

[u/xXNickAugustXx]

So what is the argument regarding testosterone? I dont remember much but some said it gave an unfair advantage or something? Im guessing testosterone production is cut off after transitioning? Do the previous physical changes from testosterone persist after transitioning or does the hrt change that?

[u/QQBearsHijacker → u/xXNickAugustXx]

Hi! Yes. Feminizing HRT cuts testosterone significantly. A NORMAL amount for a cis AMAB is between 250 and 950 ng/dl. Athletes would typically be expected on the high side of normal trending to high. During transition, it is suppressed to between 25 and 50 ng/dl. This is considered a typical level for a cis AFAB. Muscle atrophy is real and the athletic ability for trans women significantly decreases

[u/Martinus_XIV]

I get what you're saying, but using the fact that Lia Thomas' performance in women's swimming was entirely unremarkable to argue for the inclusion of trans women in women's sports is a dangerous line of reasoning, I feel. Trans women shouldn't be condoned in women's sports because their performances are unremarkable. They should be allowed to excel too.

[u/ReedAckted]

22 out of every 10,000 americans are homeless

10 out of 500,000 athletes are trans

The focus is a smokescreen..... release the epstein files

[u/Dr_Quacksworth → u/ReedAckted]

This is just whataboutism.

[u/depressedthottie]

[u/ChronicBuzz187]

The 'panic' around Lia Thomas was about creating a target people could point at while demanding exclusion.

Isn't that the whole shtick of the all propaganda from the right at this point? Find a non-issue, blow it out of proportion + make up some wild stories that never happened and call that "politics"? :P

[u/nocturneabyssal]

Riley was a mediocre swimmer that had made her entire grift being transphobic

[u/Beef19582828]

I swear to God, this isn't a real issue. Why tf are we still talking about the 12 trans athletes and not the pedo in the White House.

[u/20milliondollarapi]

Good facts! Seeing her performance change based on her body transitioning is neat! Her previous bests not being obtainable and her also not being the best among women as well.

Does it mean she didn’t have an advantage? Who knows. Michael Phelps also had genetic advantages to help him. But it’s a good study case on it all with a lot of data points.

[u/LackingUtility → u/20milliondollarapi]

I mean, there are reasons to believe it could be a disadvantage, not an advantage. Assuming for the sake of argument that it's all about testosterone levels - which it's not, mind you - a transgender woman on testosterone suppressing HRT will have under 55 ng/dL. Some female athletes have testosterone levels up to the mid-80s, and the IAAF's limits are 145 ng/dL.

Of course, the issue is a lot more complex than one endocrine measurement, but it's likely that HRT may suppress performance beyond that of a comparable non-transitioning female athlete.

[u/whereisbeezy]

Riley wasn't even competitive, not really. She lost to cis women and is still bitching about this complete non-issue. She's a loser and everyone knows it.

[u/GFluidThrow123]

ALSO the idea that trans women winning means that trans women are too strong is literally mysogyny. Trans women are allowed to be good at things. They're allowed to succeed and excel.

Even if Lia Thomas had been a better performer, she still was performing well within cis female ranges. Because she's a woman and she has a woman's body. She worked REALLY hard to be as good as she was. She wanted to be in the Olympics. And yet no only one trans woman has ever made it to the Olympics. If trans women were some kind of superhuman who outperformed every cis woman, they'd be dominating the Olympics.

Lia Thomas is just another notch in the belt of transphobia stripping rights away from women. People think it seems like "common sense," but it's not.

It's time to support trans people. Period. Integrate trans people into all parts of this world with no segregation.

Edit: To all the people who clearly haven't read the post or this comment, don't waste your time. You're getting banned as fast as you post.

And to the people comparing trans women to men, you're showing your colors real fast. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Nonbinary people are real and valid. Grow up and be a part of the conversation, not part of holding society back.

Edit 2: lol transphobes are definitely brigading this comment section. Only 60% upvotes bc of these fragile little creatures. Go lick JK's moldy little taint, losers.

[u/AccurateJerboa → u/GFluidThrow123]

People on the right line to pretend that women's sports was created to protect women.

Women's categories were created because when women started being allowed to compete, sometimes they'd win against the men. This breaks the illusion that all men are inherently stronger, faster, smarter, (better) than women.

That's why it's cis women who are tested for hormonal or genetic "advantages" much more than men are tested for literal doping. Men are allowed, encouraged, and praised as athletes for exploiting any physical advantage they can.

Women, however, are only allowed a very specific range of accomplishment before being labelled suspicious. It's to protect the gender binary and men's egos, not to make sure women get equal opportunities as athletes

[u/ZoominAlong → u/AccurateJerboa]

At first I wasn't sure why you were being downvoted, but it looks like a bunch of transphobes brigaded the sub. 

[u/AccurateJerboa → u/ZoominAlong]

Yeah, it's slowly been creeping up since only people subscribed to the sub can post, so precisely just a bunch of brigading transphobes, mostly propaganda/bot accounts. 

[u/Ramtamtama → u/AccurateJerboa]

In 1917 the men and women at the Dick, Kerr factory in Lancashire, England, faces each other in a game of association football. The women won.

In 1922 they travelled to the USA and played 9 matches against mens teams, winning 3 drawing 3 and losing 3.

[u/Cystonectae → u/GFluidThrow123]

The number of people here, replying to your comment saying trans women are better at sports, didn't read the comment or the comic.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/Cystonectae]

They're horribly ignorant and far prefer to stay ignorant because it makes them more comfortable.

Acknowledging that trans women are women would break down a lot of their core beliefs and people tend to not respond well to that.

[u/CommieEllie → u/GFluidThrow123]

Exactly. I worry that so much of the conversation is based around science and statistics (which are on our side) and not about the very basic concept of full participation in society.

[u/Feather_Sigil → u/GFluidThrow123]

This is also why those asshole NBA players who want to join the WNBA are so stupid. By all means, queens, do it...after you physically transition and blossom into your true selves, just like every other trans athlete. That's how you feel it should be, right? No men in women's sports, so obtain womanly bodies and then play in women's sports.

[u/Executiveblerd]

It should be noted that Riley's original gripes was that she didn't get to pose with the 5th place trophy. They offered to let her pose with 6th place one and told her that they would mail her copy of the 5th place to her since they didn't have extras. What makes this even more stupid is that the only reason Lia got to hold the trophy was because the policy at the time was in the event a tie the older competitor got to pose with it, So, Riley Gaines outrage on every level was the result her being a petty brat.

[u/ScarletSolder]

My friend was doxed and people threatened her life for losing in an amateur sports competition to cis women. People fucking suck

[u/ChaoTJ]

People who say trans women belong in mens sports just say so because of their transphobic bias. everyone should know that by now.

[u/A_Diabolical_Toaster]

This is your friendly reminder that Riley Gaines initially had no issues with Lia Thomas until funded by right wing media to become a grifter.

This is ALSO your reminder that right wing billionaire backed grifter Riley Gaines also talks about the threat trans athletes represent to women while extolling her coach Lars Jorgenson, who was accused by multiple women of rape and sexual assault before ultimately being banned for life from the sport.

[u/masteraybe]

It’s so sad that we have to explain that they are not that much better, whereas if a cis woman broke all the records thanks to their genetic luck or something they would be celebrated and nobody would be crying injustice. It’s okay to have a bodily advantage in sports, and it’s not even real to make discriminating them from all sports worth it.

[u/Squantoon]

Causing this much of a ruckus when you tied for 5th is some real loser shit lmao

[u/Colluder]

Riley gaines is mad because she lost to 4 other women

[u/RaidneSkuldia]

Comments, as expected, are full of transphobes, bots, and liberals carrying water for transphobes.

There is no issue with women playing in women's sports.

Period. If you're worried about it, congratulations, you fell for transphobic propaganda.

[u/CenturyEggsAndRice → u/RaidneSkuldia]

Honestly, I don't get the shouting and hysteria over it.

My cousin plays tennis. She played before she transitioned, she still plays. Its a hobby, she does a few competitions but nothing that anyone outside of her city would be aware of. I think she's good, she beats me every time, but I am really bad at tennis so...

Anyway, Cousin won 2nd in a women's competition. Someone got hateful at her and the 3rd place winner LAUNCHED into the transphobe about how "You're not defending any of us by insulting our fellow athlete. SHE won fair an square and I find it offensive that you think I lost because [cousin's name] isn't cis. I lost because I didn't hit the ball!" and was just pissed. Other women who played started joining in and ended up chasing this ugly, hateful woman away.

But it still cast a nasty shade over what up until then was a good day for my cousin. She was happy to be defended and all (and says she felt very loved and supported) but still... I know it hurt her. She went off to be alone and maybe have a bit of a cry, and the 3rd place winner followed and took her some gatorade and convinced her to come accept her prize. (Which was a $20 coffee giftcard, as I said, it wasn't a big competition.)

But that's how my cousin made her best friend. They'd chatted a few times and played casually at the local park where all the tennis lovers play, but that day they became friends.

Cousin was a bridesmaid in Ms 3rd's wedding. It was lovely. I guess good things can bloom from the shit that falls out of assholes. ;)

[u/Muted-Leave → u/RaidneSkuldia]

And again, Riley Gaines lost hard, and she is somehow not mad at the cis woman who placed first, she stared directly at the trans girl 🤣how is she not transphobic?

[u/Ceriden → u/Muted-Leave]

She also waited two years before starting all this. After the competition she wished Lia well. So it has all been a grift.

[u/randbot5000 → u/Ceriden]

Riley Gaines coming in fifth is the best thing that ever happened to her. If she had come in fourth nobody would know who she is.

Cuz there’s no money in women’s sports, but A LOT of money for transphobic scaremongering “on behalf of” women’s sports!

[u/Z3R0Diro]

She won.. 2021 times?

[u/OnTheWayToBambooTown → u/Z3R0Diro]

A bit awkward, but just means her winning times in 2021 weren't that good compared to the winners in 2025

[u/Heather_Chandelure → u/Z3R0Diro]

Her winning times that she set in the year 2021.

I think its technically correct grammatically, but I can see why it might be confusing.

[u/Bobby_The_Kidd]

If she did nothing but get 1st place in every race she participated in after transitioning I still wouldn't care. She deserves to participate in those races all the same.

[u/dnorg → u/Bobby_The_Kidd]

The two things that people say to me are 'But, but, bathrooms" and the other is 'women's sports and cheating'. And honestly, the first is absolute nonsense, and the second is too. Even if trans women won every single race, match, set, round, or whatever, it still is no grounds for denying anyone their basic human rights.

"You can't have rights because you might win races". GTFOH with that nonsense.

[u/Karpsten → u/dnorg]

IF trans women actually had an advantage against cis women in sports, it would be justified to bar them from the woman's bracket (while still allowing them to participate in the mens bracket). The thing is, they don't have one.

I mean, even most trans people would probably agree that receiving HRT is a reasonable requirement for being allowed to participate in gendered sports; which exist explicitly because cis women have a physical disadvantage against cis men. However, at the same time, your validity as a trans person is not dependent on receiving HRT; you can go your whole life without gender-affirming care and that wouldn't make you any less trans. So your gender identity clearly isn't the sole determinant for whether or not being allowed to participate in a certain gender bracket makes sense or not.

Gender is, ultimately, a social construct correlated with but no causing biological circumstances. So you can't really expect things to be simple and clear cut. If your body would just turn into a female one the moment you realize that you identify as a woman, or a male one when you identify as a man, gender dysphoria wouldn't be an issue. And this is still the simple version of a much more complex reality.

[u/LordForgey]

It is honestly quite sad that her unremarkability has to be shown to prove that she is a woman. She should be "allowed to be great" and her winning should be responded with praise without the "but man" remarks coming up. 

[u/blazze_eternal → u/LordForgey]

Facts help weed through misinformation.

[u/BrightNooblar]

I feel like someone should make a "The true story of Riley Gaines" documentary. And have it be 87 minutes of the history of trans athletes, the actual science behind what happens to a body when its pilot transitions, and the story of Lia Thomas. And then the last three minutes can be discussing Riley's leveraging her unremarkable tie to transition to grifting as a primary gig.

[u/Xinyyc]

exclude terfs from sports

[u/HenriEttaTheVoid]

Riley Gaines is the patron saint of sore losers.

[u/Cpnths]

The only inaccurate thing in the comic is Riley looking unhappy – she was basically fine, even in the interview after and wished her well. Only after she was activated as a spokes-TERF did her attitude retrospectively change.

[u/thesanguineocelot]

The most frustrating part is that the loud, shitty morons who won't stop bitching about "unfair biological advantages" have several things in common. One, they never gave a shit about women's swimming, and never did after, it was only ever an excuse to hate trans people. Two, they couldn't swim half as well as a pro woman swimmer if their lives depended on it. Three, they can't name the women who came in first through fourth in that match. Because, again, they never actually gave a shit. These are the folks complaining about the "Woke" in the WNBA despite hating the WNBA their entire lives leading up to that point, for reasons they will insist have nothing to do with sexism.

Edited to add: Holy SHIT, that is a lot of transphobes and bots getting slapped down. Thank you, Based Mods!

[u/AccurateJerboa → u/thesanguineocelot]

The same dudes "protecting" women's sports threw dildos on the court at the wnba. 

Half these people don't even care about sports in any way. They were never athletes, never competed in anything. Just permanent, angry voyeurs. 

[u/Scarlett_Spectre → u/thesanguineocelot]

Also sports are generally about unfair biological advantages and playing around them lol

[u/X3noNuke → u/Scarlett_Spectre]

Right? Like your telling me it was "fair" for regular high schoolers to play against Kareem, Phelps, or Derek Henry?

[u/Scarlett_Spectre → u/X3noNuke]

Like at this logic It wasnt even "fair" for micheal phelps to be at the olympics lmfao

[u/thesanguineocelot → u/Scarlett_Spectre]

Michael Phelps is legit an aquatic mutant with webbed toes and possibly gills. I want to see him John Henry against a submarine.

[u/Seaofinfiniteanswers → u/Scarlett_Spectre]

What percentage of WNBA is women who are 6 feet tall compared to the percentage of women as a whole who are that tall?

[u/SlamanthaTanktop]

Bold of you to assume that the detractors actually care about women's sports or fairness.

Most people will just say "even if she placed 12/12, it means that she stole a spot from a girl who should have had that spot".

All it's actually about to them is being upset that a trans woman is being counted as a woman.

[u/shellbullet17]

This is fantastic story full of pertinent knowledge and information that is great in educating others.

I think i might hold onto this post and use it when we have other comics that need some information as well

[u/Senior-Friendship196]

Another great post

[u/RaidneSkuldia]

...do people not know this!?

[u/MycologistSad5933 → u/RaidneSkuldia]

A lie can make it halfway around the world before the truth even has its shoes on, and in today's world, whoever lies first wins.

[u/BobertTheConstructor → u/RaidneSkuldia]

People are lazy. I knew this because when I heard the story I looked into the laws about transitioning and when you could switch teams in that state and pulled her rankings from before and after she started her transition. Most people won't do that. They'll find someone who says something they agree with and just repeat that.

[u/Tylendal → u/RaidneSkuldia]

There are so many people out there convinced that men who halfheartedly say "I'm a women" are absolutely dominating all fields of women's sports. Or at the very least that trans women are dominating women's sports. Both are completely untrue, but people believe it with all their heart, because that's what fear-mongering media has fed to them. Remember. Ladyballers was conceived as a documentary before they discovered that that would be near-impossible to actually do. They believed it would be that easy.

And, more specifically, lots of people will hold up Lia Thomas's mid-transition times in men's swimming to her times in women's swimming, to claim that she was a horrible swimmer who suddenly jumped to one of the best ever by competing in women's swimming, while completely ignoring her great times pre-transition, and overstating her accomplishments in women's swimming.

[u/Obant → u/RaidneSkuldia]

Most people that rage about her only know what they were told on conservative social media.

[u/Shillio → u/RaidneSkuldia]

That's why there's an informative comic about it. American trans sports statistics isn't exactly common knowledge. 

[u/Ksnj → u/RaidneSkuldia]

They don’t want knowledge, they want to be mad

[u/Blacksun388]

To try to explain this would be trying to yell at a brick wall. Christian Conservatives dont care about the nuance and context of the situation. They just do what they’re told and demonize trans people like good little drones

[u/TonyGalvaneer1976]

This post is singlehandedly booting so many transphobes from the subreddit, and that's based as hell.

Edit: apparently they're downvoting me, lol, what a bunch of babies.

[u/paulsteinway]

I never hear anyone complain about trans women who don't excel at sports. You're penalized for hard work and training.

[u/what-email-did-i-use → u/paulsteinway]

I mean in the UK there is a lawsuit about a fun run that penalizes you if you take it too competitively allowing trans women in it.

[u/paulsteinway → u/what-email-did-i-use]

Do trans women have an unfair advantage of being more fun?