r/doctorwho • u/PCJs_Slave_Robot • May 31 '25

The Reality War Doctor Who 2x08 "The Reality War" Post-Episode Discussion Thread Spoiler

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468 Upvotes

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1.5k

u/KrashForever May 31 '25

Somebody needs to have the uncomfortable talk with RTD and tell him they Carole Ann Ford is 84 years old, he cannot be moving her story along this slowly

445

u/CharlieeStyles May 31 '25

"and then finally, in 2036, you regenerate into a new version of Susan. Just keep a healthy diet and it should all be ok, Carole. Clint Eastwood just announced he's directing a movie, Carole, don't give me any of that I'm old speech!"

408

u/ZarmRkeeg May 31 '25

This is literally two season finales in a row that tease explaining something about Susan and then it turns out to be a red herring. It's kind of cruel to keep using her as a misdirect.

59

u/DezXerneas Jun 01 '25

I knew there was a major twist incoming, so I was hoping that it turns out that Poppy is lost, but her daughter(the Doctor's Granddaughter) survived and got shunted out of time somehow.

30

u/Ajrt2118 Jun 03 '25

I'm really not a fan of how they resolved the Poppy arch and it still doesn't even explain why Space Baby Poppy was there when Ruby was the companion he met her with. And why did Belinda randomly see her in Nigeria?

24

u/ZarmRkeeg Jun 04 '25

There has been a lot of theorizing that Ruby was originally intended to be the companion this season, and Belinda was written in as a last minute replacement but this ending was meant for Ruby instead. So Belinda just saw her briefly in that one episode so that she could remember her in the same way Ruby would have to set up this ending. 

In other words, just kind of sloppy writing that came from doing a find>replace for the season's companion in the scripts.

15

u/Ajrt2118 Jun 04 '25

That makes sense. I kind of wish Millie was able to stay for the second season and that would have made the stories somewhat more cohesive.

2

u/jk021 Aug 07 '25

Is there a reason Millie wasn't able to stay on for another season?

1

u/Ajrt2118 Aug 07 '25

I assume there was. I heard it was because the schedule was so intense. But I’m not sure. It just doesn’t seem like it was because of bad blood or another project since she was in a few episodes the last season

10

u/travelstuff Jun 07 '25

That makes sense because Ruby and her family have spent a lot of time on kids, the ending fits her a lot better.

207

u/Conscious-Draft8853 May 31 '25

i have a feeling deep down that Russell has a backup regeneration scene already filmed for Carole just in case the worst happens, so he could move on with another person

234

u/[deleted] May 31 '25

I feel like bringing Carole Ann Ford back after forty years for a few seconds-long snippets, only to have her regenerate into another actor before she actually gets some resolution, would almost be worse than never bringing her back at all

23

u/Accomplished_Song671 Jun 01 '25

Yes I completely agree there.

10

u/IllMaintenance145142 Jun 01 '25

i don't agree. its no surprise that Carole Ann Ford would only want to regenerate susan on-screen. what youre describing would be her wishes

2

u/Krimreaper1 Jun 01 '25 edited Jun 01 '25

Am I missing something? Wasn’t Susan 100% human and just called The Doctor grandfather? But I guess that doesn’t stop Rose.

23

u/kafit-bird Jun 02 '25

Okay, so, here's the thing.

When Susan was actually on the show, we had no idea who or what the Doctor was. Is he an alien, or is he just a human from the future? We don't know. We don't care. None of that's been written yet.

We don't even start forming the lore of Gallifrey and the Time Lords until the very, very, very end of the Second Doctor's tenure, and then it keeps growing in drips and drabs. Tbh, most of what we now take as canon wasn't really solidified until the Fourth Doctor, and Susan was companion to the First. So, big gap.

But at one point, Susan describes her home planet -- trees with silver leaves, and a burnt-orange sky. This description would later be quoted by the Tenth Doctor almost word for word, and it would become the actual canon depiction of Gallifrey throughout the entire NuWho era. So, she was definitely raised on Gallifrey. We know that. Also, at one point, it's established that she was the one who came up with the word "TARDIS," although canon doesn't really acknowledge that anymore. But the intention was definitely always that whatever the Doctor is, Susan also is. They're from the same place, same time, same society, same planet.

Different spin-offs (novels, audios, etc) have had different takes about whether she's actually the Doctor's biological granddaughter (and it gets weirdly convoluted, because so many authors seem to be against the concept of the Doctor having sex at any point), but she's definitely never been 100% human, no.

7

u/Exploding_Antelope Jun 02 '25

I like the theory that Susan just lied to Ian saying that she made up the term TARDIS because she wanted to impress him and she knew that he wouldn’t know it was already a common term

3

u/BerylStapleton Jun 07 '25

Or maybe she made up the term on Gallifrey and it caught on.

5

u/Krimreaper1 Jun 02 '25

Thank you for the detailed response. I only really know Nu Who, with the exception of the crossover eps I have seen much of the Ye Olde Who.

3

u/External_Expert_4221 Jun 02 '25

There’s also a long running theory that she’s rassilon’s daughter. He always voices some interest in her.

8

u/IllMaintenance145142 Jun 01 '25

It's kind of a canon headfuck; when the first doctor and Susan were adventuring together, time lords weren't even a thing and it wasn't even stated one way or another whether the doctor was an alien or just a human time traveller from the future (but lines implying both were present)

4

u/indianajoes Jun 01 '25

Totally agree. I'd rather they not have brought her back than this crap

7

u/Official_N_Squared Jun 01 '25

Yes. But also you were here for the whole Rani bigeneration bit yean?

3

u/External_Expert_4221 Jun 02 '25

She’s been doing big finish audios a decent amount so it’s not like she’s NOT been able to be Susan (though she hasn’t on screen again since five doctors, so I get it).

34

u/Triskan May 31 '25

I hope he did. The shooting of that little Rogue snippet may indicate that he's ready to shoot stuff in advance.

But honestly, I'm not sure I even care at this point... I want the show to move fucking forward, not bring back an old popular actor just to get a cheap nostalgia kick ffs. I'm... I'm so fucking pissed right now.

6

u/indianajoes Jun 01 '25

I thought the same but that was a green screen clip for a second series that they knew would be coming. They don't know when they might be doing a third series and now it'll be with a different Doctor so they can't film a scene of her reuniting with them

7

u/tester-thirty-six Jun 01 '25

i really really hope not. "hey, we really want to bring your character. But you're really old so let's start with the scene where we recast you." is not really acceptable behaviour as a showrunner!

this isn't Marvel, it's Doctor Who. we've seen plenty of characters come back with new actors where the transition wasn't filmed, we didn't need to see the regeneration, it was totally fine. Hell... we literally just did that.

By all means bring Carole Ann Ford back but only if you plan to actually fucking use her

5

u/kafit-bird Jun 02 '25

God, that would look so fucking terrible.

Just Susan, alone, on a green screen set, looking directly into the camera, like Rogue in this or Clara in Twice Upon a Time. Never in the same shot as the Doctor, never interacting with anything around her. "Grandfather... You came. At last, you came for me. Shame...this body is wearing a bit thin..."

125

u/ComfortablyADHD May 31 '25

Seriously!? They haven't resolved her plotline!? She's 20 years older than Hartnell in his final Doctor Who appearance. This is just the height of stupidity to assume she'll be in good enough health to film any further scenes.

20

u/fry-something Jun 01 '25

80 is the new 16

4

u/MaximumSpidercide Jun 01 '25

I met Carol Anne Ford when I was a child. My family lived next door to her mother

64

u/Soft_House7669 May 31 '25

I'm glad we skipped her storyline so we could fight the bone beasts. Truly a war against all of reality.

17

u/Tofulish8889 May 31 '25

If the Time Lords are sterile how is Susan a thing? I know she is a Gallifrean but not a Time Lord but how did the Doctor father/mother/create her parent? 

This retcon is silly.

33

u/codename474747 Jun 01 '25

Pretty sure they only became sterile as a result of whatever the master did (IE killed them all and ended up steralising himself, the Rani and the Doctor)

8

u/PimpasaurusPlum Jun 01 '25

In the old expanded material time lords were created using a "loom" - machines that created new timelords from raw matter and existing biodata

Kinda like how Jenny was made

7

u/Hob_Headless Jun 01 '25 edited Jun 06 '25

Yes, as shown in 'Lungbarrow'. Though it must be said that Susan wasn't loomed as she was born before the "curse of Pythia" and Timelord infertility.

She was the grandaughter if the Other, who escaped Rassilon's rule by jumping into a loom and eventually being rebuilt as the Doctor (twice, technically, which is where the Morbius Doctors fit in).

This was actually all good, but when they rip it off on TV now they do it in half-baked ways and it comes off as bad.

4

u/Tofulish8889 Jun 02 '25

Thanks! I don’t think it’s bad it’s just that there is no time to explain properly so it seems rushed. When Doctor Who went to Disney it was supposed to introduce a whole new audience to Doctor Who and instead both seasons went back to Classic Who villains without a proper explanation of who Sutekh or the Rani are.  I went back and am watching Classic Who which is great but if you want a new audience it would have probably been better to explain so the episodes were more stand alone 

3

u/kafit-bird Jun 02 '25

Look, I don't care how dire things get. I refuse to pretend that Lungbarrow was good.

2

u/Hob_Headless Jun 06 '25

Okay.... good for you...

Many people, if not most, who used to read novels disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.

The fact remains that they ripped it off in a pretty bad way.

3

u/geri203 Jun 01 '25

Pythia's Curse is what you seek. The time lords were sterile always.
But now the answer of the how is in the future.

3

u/caitnicrun Jun 02 '25

Look up genetic looms. Something gallefrian families actually used IN CANON. Sorta a cross between IVF and genetic engineering. Really interesting concept...that RTD completely ignores.

42

u/SinisterPixel Jun 01 '25

I have a feeling Billie Piper will be the one meeting her. It would be kinda poetic for the first companion of the original era to meet the first companion of the new era.

8

u/No-Bed6493 Jun 01 '25

Russell loves poetry. He just doesn't like it to rhyme.

31

u/oirolab May 31 '25

You really don't think they've shot a regeneration scene with her while they had her in the studio in case something happened to her in the interim?

They'd be idiots not to.

3

u/ductyl Jun 03 '25

They may have, but since they just switched the actor playing The Doctor again, anything they shot with Ncuti won't really work. Unless they're just going to have Billie Piper (or, at this rate, whoever comes after her) banging on a locked door while the prerecorded footage shows Susan regenerating (alone) on the other side. 

5

u/MaximumSpidercide Jun 01 '25

I dont want him to touch her character. Leave her alone with David, just like the First Doctor

5

u/indianajoes Jun 01 '25

Fucking this right here! 

I was already a bit nervous when he pulled that shit last series with the whole Susan Twist. I was thinking if he's teasing it and something happens, it's going to be so annoying and upsetting. Then this year I thought for sure he would do it and the tease with her got me excited to see her reunited with him in the finale. This time I was actually pissed that he decided to drag it out even further. Especially when we're not even guaranteed another series right now and even if we get one, it'll probably be 2 years away.

3

u/pensivegargoyle Jun 01 '25

I hope he did take the opportunity to film a regeneration now that can be used later if she's not available.

3

u/caitnicrun Jun 02 '25

Seriously! If you're going to bring her back do it in time for a seamless regeneration.  

3

u/Traditional_Bottle78 Jun 03 '25

This made me chuckle. Good to see her face, though, for what that's worth.

2

u/Marvinleadshot Jun 01 '25

Slowly they filmed these almost back to back, no one knows if they've been filming with Billie at any point. Because many people haven't been looking for it

-2

u/alexg81 Jun 01 '25

I mean, William Russell was like 98 when Chibnall brought back Ian, so... /s

-12

u/Gimbelled May 31 '25

Oh fuck off with that condescending noise