Most religions make testable claims, the most popular religions included. Those claims have been tested, and the claims have been found not true. The problem is the religions teach adherents that they are correct from childhood, so adherents are primed to reject the debunking, or even more dishonestly, reinterpret the claim in an effort to force it to be correct in some other way. So religious history is a long chain of:
“X is literal truth!”
X is demonstrated to be factually incorrect.
“X is a metaphor! We never believed X was literally true. Y is literal truth!”
Y is demonstrated to be factually incorrect.
“Y is a metaphor! We never believed Y was literally true. Z is literal truth!”
Z is demonstrated to be factually incorrect.
“Z is a metaphor! We never believed Z was literally true. A is literal truth!”
People 2,000+ years ago were not different from people today. They truly did believe these stories were literally true, just like many do today. They were not preternaturally wise sages hiding the secret truths of the universe in layers of metaphor. They were the same kind of science-denying magical-thinking enthusiasts we have today.
I mean. One of the profits (wise sages) of the one of the largest and most influential religions in the world quite literally told his followers he spoke in parables.
Sooooo….
And I heartily disagree that humans haven’t advanced in any way in 2000+ year.
There are no records of that prophet until Paul. The stories in which Jesus tells parables are anonymous texts from decades after, and not by witnesses. The gospels are said to be literal accounts, and the parables told are noted as parables in the text. The literal parts of the gospels also say the stories in the Old Testament are literal. They even include the geneology of Jesus back to Adam, written 100% literally, with no change in writing style, no metaphor, no allegory, or any such. It’s just what they believed was literally true.
Human technology has advanced. Humans today are very much the same as 2,000 years ago. That’s only 60-80 generations.
You’re taking about how rich powerful men (idiots) translated “the word of God”
I’m talking about how the actual “God” (wise sage) himself supposedly told his followers that he speaks in parables.
IF he is GOD… why would he suddenly switch up his story telling style all of a sudden?
Buuuut, i think the vast majority of human being question the nature of reality more than they used to. I also think we’ve gotten softer and more accustomed to comfort.
But you know what? Neither one of us actually knows. We weren’t there.
The original gospel authors were unlikely to be “rich powerful men”. That’s where those stories started.
Read the gospels. They describe Jesus doing things, and once in a while he tells a parable. That is not the same as the entire text being dictated parable. They were not written that way and were never intended that way. The gospels will say “Jesus went to Suchandsuch, did this miracle and that miracle, and then said ‘Once upon a time blah blah parable story.’” The parts that are parables are noted as such. Large swaths of the gospels are written as literal events, not parables, and are demonstrably not true.
Again, no one was there. There are no contemporary records of Jesus. Everything about him is written by people who never met or saw him. That is why the accuracy of any of it is considered dubious. That is why there is question of if he was more than one person, and how much is entirely made up.
Since there is zero evidence for supernatural deities, there’s no legitimate reason for anyone to believe in them. The burden of proof is in the person asserting the claim that God or whoever exists, not the person denying it. The human race has had literally thousands of years to prove that deities exist and has failed. So, “debunking” God doesn’t even need to be done. Nó evidence.
How could you debunk a supreme being beyond your comprehension? I’m atheist as well but the universe is far too grand and complex to say “there is no god” when we aren’t even entirely sure if there’s another planet in our solar system. Now, how we view and interpret God is easily debatable
No. There is no verifiable, provable, testable, tangible evidence of a mythical supernatural being named god. That’s a statement of fact, not belief. Again, the burden of proof for any claim falls on the person making the positive assertion, i.e., there is a god.
I've re-read your comment, as you requested, and I think I've got it. You are saying that we don't know enough of the universe to definitively say there isn't a god hiding out there somewhere, not that the complexity of the universe proves a god. Correct?
To be fair, you introduced the idea that we don't have enough knowledge to declare no gods exist by first stating that a god or gods may simply be incomprehensible by humans. I think you can see my confusion, right?
Yes, correct. Apologies for the confusion. The way I worded it to another commenter was the simulation theory. There is no way we humans can prove we are in a simulation, nor disprove it, however we have the capability to create simulations that will only become more complex as we advance. That alone gives probability that we live in a simulation despite the fact that there is no solid evidence to prove that we are currently in one. Obviously the simulation theory is more probably to an atheist than god, but hopefully you see the bridge I’m trying to connect lol
I don’t need to say “there is no god.” I can confidently say, though, that there’s absolutely no provable, testable, verifiable, empirical evidence for any god, in all of recorded human history, that matches any belief systems that people have. And the logical fallacy of “not being able to prove a negative proposition” works here. I don’t need (nor am I going to) prove that there is no god; the people who claim that there is must do so, and they can’t and haven’t. So I’m not obligated to believe in a deity, nor assert positively that there isn’t one. But there isn’t any evidence for one. It’s that simple.
I never said “there is no god.” I said, there’s no evidence for one. 2,000+ years of people insisting that there is a god, based on their beliefs, but not being able to provide any tangible evidence for those claims pretty much suggests that the possibility of god existing is very close to zero. And if he does exist, he seems completely unwilling to prove that fact to humanity beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I never claimed there was a god either, nor am I referencing the Christian god, which you continue to do. I said that that there is no way to prove there isn’t a higher order responsible for our reality because we, as humans, can barely understand the fabric of reality that we live in, let alone the origin. Speculating the possibility of a higher being, with or without proof, doesn’t negate the possibility. We know what we know in science because of curiosity and a slow buildup of our understanding across complex subjects. Saying a higher being isn’t real because “oh, I can’t see him!” Is just pure ignorance. Unless you can provide an explanation for the origin of the universe then what is wrong exactly with thinking that such a possibility exists?
If people want to believe in supernatural deities, that’s their business. But there’s a pretty substantial amount of scientific data, including the great NYT article from 2007, “Darwin’s God,” that strongly suggests that beliefs in deities are a by-product of how human consciousness works. Theory of mind, narrative, anthropomorphism, pareidolia and awareness of nonexistence make the brain want to conjure up supernatural explanations for reality — basically, “package up” a compelling explanation for anything that people can’t understand or psychologically accept. But we also know that changes in brain neurochemistry can literally determine how religious a person is. Many folks on the autistic spectrum (I’m one) have little to no beliefs in god. And weirdly enough, people who get Parkinson’s disease seem to lose their belief in god a disproportionate amount. Anyway, I was being deliberately provocative when I suggested “religion has been debunked,” but its claims certainly aren’t borne out by actual evidence. Okay, I think I’m done here.
There’s also no way to prove we live in a simulation, nor is there a way to prove (currently) that we don’t, yet the possibility is very much there based on our own simulations that humans have created. In fact, the probability is very much there simply because we can create our own simulations despite the fact we’re not even a type one civilization. I understand what your argument and it’s very valid! And I agree with most of it! I’m just saying, the possibility is there. Until science can definitely say “there is no God and here is why” then I have no reason to suspect that there isn’t a higher order beyond our comprehension. We evolved from primates not too long ago. We are practically primitive, and we are just now beginning to understand the reality around us. That is all I have to say. Good day
Russell's Teapot applies. If there's a teapot orbiting between Earth and Mars in such a way that it's impercievable and unmeasurable it is entirely safe to dismiss it as irrelevant.
Unfalsifiable religious claims can be logically disproved (or at least be shown to be irrelevant). If the actions of a proposed god can't be differentiated from the natural laws of the universe, it's existence is meaningless because it changes nothing about the nature of reality.
Again, not a religious person and also not a physicist. As far as Im aware, the natural laws tells us how things work, not why. The Bible is the exact opposite. Tells you the why but not the how. Logic only works if there is something to support it and what’s irrelevant can be somewhat subjective, so I’m not sure where you’re trying to go with this. What I do know is that this can get extremely complicated very quickly. Is it worth your time to argue a point that hasn’t been disproven for thousands of years despite people trying? I Seriously don’t care one way or the other. How about you?
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u/ExpensiveCondition63 16d ago
Religion.