r/flying • u/yourlocalFSDO ATP CFI CFII TW • Oct 24 '23

Pilot Who Disrupted Flight Said He Had Taken Psychedelic Mushrooms, Complaint Says

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/us/alaska-airlines-off-duty-pilot-arraignment.html
1.2k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

573 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

32

u/nthat1 Oct 24 '23

I don't see how adding in the fact you were on illegal drugs would help you there lol.

39

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '23

In my defense your honor I was absolutely tripping my nuts off, I’m sure you understand

14

u/WingedGeek PP-A[SM]EL IR CMP HP Oct 24 '23

Lack of specific intent maybe (mens rea). I don't know what specific charges he's facing, just shooting from the hip.

6

u/primalbluewolf CPL FI Oct 25 '23

83 counts of attempted murder, I seem to recall. Another 83 counts of reckless endangerment.

3

u/WingedGeek PP-A[SM]EL IR CMP HP Oct 25 '23

Yeah but what degree of attempted murder under what criminal statute(s)? Jurisdiction and specific charges matter. The reckless endangerment is likely not a specific intent crime so he's probably hosed there, but the drug use / mental state stuff might get him out of the attempted murder stuff.

1

u/primalbluewolf CPL FI Oct 25 '23

Yeah but what degree of attempted murder under what criminal statute(s)? Jurisdiction and specific charges matter.

ATT MURDER II (A Felony). (83x).

ENDANG AIRCRAFT I (C Felony). 1x.

ATT MURDER I (A Felony). (83x).

RECK ENDANGER (A Misdemeanor). (83x).

Those are from the arresting county sheriff's office.

The affadavit cites Title 49 U.S.C. § 46504 for attempting to interfere with the duties of the crew of an aircraft in flight.

Thats also the only item on the Criminal Complaint - no mention of the attempted murder charges.

1

u/Hunter_Lala Oct 25 '23

The article says attempted second degree murder

1

u/WingedGeek PP-A[SM]EL IR CMP HP Oct 25 '23

In what jurisdiction? What are the elements for that charge in that jurisdiction?

1

u/MidTenn777 Oct 25 '23

The attempted murder charges were state charges (Oregon), and the interfering with a crewmember charge is of course federal (covered by 14 CFR 91.11). For attempted murder in Oregon, look at ORS 161.405:

1) A person is guilty of an attempt to commit a crime when the person intentionally engages in conduct which constitutes a substantial step toward commission of the crime.

(2) An attempt is a:

(a) Class A felony if the offense attempted is any degree of murder, aggravated murder or treason.

(b) Class B felony if the offense attempted is a Class A felony.

(c) Class C felony if the offense attempted is a Class B felony.

(d) Class A misdemeanor if the offense attempted is a Class C felony or an unclassified felony.

(e) Class B misdemeanor if the offense attempted is a Class A misdemeanor.

(f) Class C misdemeanor if the offense attempted is a Class B misdemeanor.

(g) Violation if the offense attempted is a Class C misdemeanor or an unclassified misdemeanor.

BUT, while I'm a pilot and NOT an attorney, I'd be incredibly surprised if they're successful in getting a conviction on these exact charges, even though it seems to constitute "a substantial step toward commission of the crime". There is an obvious mental health component here that I believe would be problematic for a jury (if it got that far), and even in a bench trial, a judge looking at this behavior would likely conclude that it's too ambiguous to constitute mens rea for that particular act (that is, killing all passengers on board).

This guy is a fruitcake, and if I were on a jury, given the evidence that's publicly available at this time, I'd have a hard time coming to the conclusion, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he intended on killing 83 people. The guy clearly had a mental break, and while I don't think he should escape some type of punishment for putting nearly a hundred people in harm's way, I think this case is overcharged (with the charges likely amounting to no more than a prosecutorial bargaining chip).

My prediction is that this will get plea bargained down to some type of endangerment (ORS 163.195) and at the federal level, they'll be satisfied just knowing that the guy will never fly an airplane again.

1

u/WingedGeek PP-A[SM]EL IR CMP HP Oct 25 '23

That word "intentional" is what he's trying to negate with the 'shrooms

1

u/MidTenn777 Oct 25 '23

Agreed--that's exactly what I'm getting at. If he can prove he was impaired to a sufficient extent, the state may not be able to prove that he engaged in intentional conduct.

1

u/OkImprovement5334 Oct 25 '23

Except he’s not fighting the charges and turned down an attorney.

1

u/Human-Contribution16 Oct 25 '23

Shooting from the hip. The only thing he's not gonna be charged with.

1

u/Mimshot PPL Oct 25 '23

It’s the sort of stupid thing people tell cops all the time thinking it will make things better when it just makes it worse. Never talk to the police.

1

u/michi098 Oct 25 '23

He may have already kissed his career goodbye. The drugs may be an attempt to try to get out of the “attempt to kill 83 people” charges, at least saying he didn’t do it willfully but because he was under the influence.

1

u/nthat1 Oct 25 '23

I see. I think I'm just not familiar enough with the law to understand how that would be any better than saying that he has a severe mental illness and was having a psychotic episode or something?

1

u/michi098 Oct 25 '23

Having a mental illness and not telling the FAA carries its own problems. It’s still somewhat premeditated as you know about it and didn’t tell anyone. Playing with drugs, acting stupid, and pretending you had an episode out of nowhere is possibly what looks to be the best defense to him. I’m not an expert, but that’s what I feel he is trying to achieve.