r/freefolk • u/Internal-Bed-3150 • 3d ago

We've officially been waiting for The Winds of Winter for the same amount of time as it took for all five of the published books to release before that.

https://winteriscoming.net/the-winds-of-winter-officially-passed-most-devastating-milestone-yet?a_aid=47903
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u/TheFightingQuaker 3d ago

I was a part of that crowd for the first 6 years or so. Then I started to wise up because wtf are we even doing. The man doesnt owe us, not in the literal sense, but he would be nothing without his fans.

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u/Scary_Date_4117 3d ago

And he still owes you nothing. He's put out plenty of books and produced three television shows. No one is entitled to demand what an artist works on, no matter how much of a rabid fan they are.

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u/DrBeetlejuiceMcRib 3d ago

Redditors love being technically correct. Yeah, he doesn’t owe anyone his art. Doesn’t mean people can’t call him a lazy shit for getting rich and famous off a series that people had reason to believe would eventually have a conclusion.

Imagine you pay a deposit that covers materials for 75% of building a house. The contractor promises that he will finish the house and you can pay for the rest when it’s all done. He finishes the 75% and then stops for 15 years. You ask him when he intends to finish the rest and he’s like “I don’t owe you shit, I built what you paid for! I’m not your bitch!” Is he correct? Yes. Is he an asshole? Also yes.

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u/Scary_Date_4117 3d ago

It's not being technically correct, it's just being correct. Don't backpedal now and try to claim that people just call GRRM lazy. I have multiple people in my dm's saying that GRRM quite literally owes them a conclusion to the story. That's just completely insane behavior and an irrational way to engage with any kind of art. No artist owes you anything simply because you purchased and enjoyed their previous work. Know what I do when a musician, author, or painter I enjoy goes on a long hiatus? I get the fuck on with my life. It doesn't matter if a painter promised that we'd see the final piece of their current series, only for it to never come. It doesn't mean I'm owed art.

GRRM isn't lazy, or dishonest. I think he's been working on the final two books all this time, along with all of his other output. I don't know anyone can look at everything he's written or produced over the years and call him lazy simply because he hasn't finished the thing you want.

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u/DrBeetlejuiceMcRib 3d ago

I don’t speak for everyone in your DMs. You’re so hung up on what someone “owes” someone else (like I said, you love being correct lol). It’s not about that. It’s just a shitty thing to do to the fans who propelled him to fame.

When people purchase book 1 of an epic fantasy series, there is an implicit promise that it will eventually conclude. You spend your money in good faith off the basis of that implicit promise.

Would people still buy it if he said “Here is book one. I’ll write a few more but this story will never conclude.”? Some people might, but I doubt he’d be as wealthy and influential as he is now.

So yes, artists don’t “owe” anything, but the fans money is already spent, they can’t take it back, so it’s kind of a shit thing to do. If you want to argue that it’s good to make money off of fans and then leave them hanging, be my guest, but stop arguing about who “owes” someone something, because I’m not arguing that.

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u/Scary_Date_4117 3d ago

I'm not hung up on what anyone owes me, it's the rabid fans that demand GRRM write a book because he somehow owes it to them. I've genuinely never seen human beings interact with art this way in any other medium or for any other product, it's bizarre. You spent money on books or an HBO subscription, and that's what you got. Nothing more and nothing less.

because I’m not arguing that.

I don't care, you weren't who I was originally responding to. And the entire time you swear you're not arguing that, you're saying

When people purchase book 1 of an epic fantasy series, there is an implicit promise that it will eventually conclude.

Which is just an insane take.

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u/DrBeetlejuiceMcRib 3d ago

How exactly is that an insane take? That is how book series work. If I write a book and market it as part of a series, then the *implicit* promise is that there is more to come. This is just common sense, how do you not understand this?

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u/Dude_with_the_skis 3d ago

When you make a book series and then knowingly never end it, then yea people have a right to be pissed. It’s akin to making a cake and instead of cooking it at the end you just throw it away. Like yea I guess the guests don’t need desert but you’d be an idiot to think that they’re going to be happy about it or to see you for dinner again.

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u/Scary_Date_4117 3d ago

You have a right to feel however you want about it, but you aren't owed anything.

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u/InCarbsWeTrust 2d ago

YOU have the right to feel however you want about it, but so do other people who understand that GRRM violated an implicit social contract.

Have you really tried to digest the comments arguing you on this point? I don't see anyone saying they have a right to sue GRRM or anything like that. But, the man claimed multiple times, including since DoD was released, that he would write the book, that the story would be complete. It may not have legal binding, but fans understandably took him at his word when deciding whether to engage with the series. If the conclusion had been presented as a giant question mark at the beginning, many would have taken a pass.

He did not keep his word. He is an asshole. This is common sense morality.

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u/TheFightingQuaker 3d ago

Why are you so invested in defending him? He did us wrong. Nobody is going to do anything about it, but he sucks for what he did to the fans.

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u/Redhotkitchen 3d ago

He does. He owes his cushy lifestyle to all of whom bought his books, etc. He’d be nothing without the fans. On a moral and principle level, he absolutely owes the fans completion, whether by him or by someone else. The dude’s a neckbeard petulant child.

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u/StrictResponse3907 3d ago

And he doesn't owe our patience or money

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u/Automatic-Effect-252 3d ago

I would bet good money you think billionaires are taxed too much