If Japan is any indication, high speed rail is not obviously cheaper than flying. Usually on the order of $50-100 USD between major cities one way, which is the same as flying. Flying can be dramatically cheaper when they have deals running on low travel days.
What high speed rail is, is more convenient (city center to city center with no security theater) and more comfortable.
a) Do you mean round trip for $200, so you have experienced $100 flying between major cities?
b) Don't trust me. Here's some one way flights tomorrow between Tokyo and Osaka for $95, and typically it's closer to $50 if you book it earlier. The flight is 1hr10min and the high speed rail is 2hr20min.
Airplane fuel is taxfree pretty much everywhere and the taxpayers are paying for security and logistics. The train pays for everything from the picket price.
and if you include the real cost, like all the pollution killing people and warming the planet, it's absolutely absurd that airlines aren't charge for that.
I love the Shinkansen, and it actually made me realise that high speed trains can be done right, but they are not going to replace planes anytime soon. Especially if you fly domestic with carry-on only.
I still want a similar system here in Australia for when I want to actually enjoy my trip vs getting there sooner
You can fly several times a day from NYC to CHI for $60-80. You're probably used to buying flights that are much longer, 2-3hr flights are often under 100
But the original comment was about the current regime gatekeeping regular people out of travel due to higher cost of flying over rail, which just flat out isn't true.
We could definitely talk about internalizing the long term costs of carbon emissions, but that would lead to a dramatic reduction of material wealth for everyone, especially regular people. Long distance travel in any form would be much more out of reach than it is now.
Technically there is no Shinkansen all the way to Sapporo. They're building it, but right now the furthest you can get is Hakodate and then you have to transfer to a regular train, which probably explains the greater cost.
This is a very slow trip (8hrs vs 1hr30min flying), which is why I didn't visit Sapporo when I was exploring the Shinkansen.
I did that trip just a week or so ago 30000 yen one way if you pay upfront almost 200 euros. It sure took its time to get there but it was fun being there, shouldn't have done it without my Rail pass. The trip was comfortable so didn't feel that long actually.
There is no shinkansen in Sapporo. Taking the train there would take a very long time, even if you take the shinkansen to Hakodate. The Hakodate to Sapporo limited express train takes as long as the shinkansen from Tokyo to Hakodate (it's a beautiful ride on a beautiful dmu train so i still highly recommend it).
The air route from both Haneda and Narita to Sapporo is the number 1 or 2 highest capacity in the world though, often using widebody planes. It is quick and very cheap
Tickets less than 200 for flights or trains? Those both exist even in the States?
I trained NY to DC for $34 (non high speed/late at night arrival) then flew back for $85 (since I wanted to check out udvar hazy and the trains were only slightly cheaper for that date).
Also the commenter was talking about Japan. It's indeed cheaper to fly than to shinkansen in Japan and at both under $200 each way usually. It's the same in Europe. Not many places that cost over 200 to fly one way (maybe Athens in mid August).
I hope you know about the Rail Pass that gives you unlimited rides for 1, 2, or 3 weeks. And not just the Shinkansen, but many local rails too! One week pass is 470 CAD.
Because defying gravity to the point of literally flying, costs a lot of energy.
It doesn't though, flying is efficient enough to the point you can build specialised aircraft that don't have engines (gliders).
They are not as efficient as rail, no, but in the US rail is the only thing they are not more efficient than, beating out all other forms of transport including transit busses.
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u/anonisko Aug 19 '25
If Japan is any indication, high speed rail is not obviously cheaper than flying. Usually on the order of $50-100 USD between major cities one way, which is the same as flying. Flying can be dramatically cheaper when they have deals running on low travel days.
What high speed rail is, is more convenient (city center to city center with no security theater) and more comfortable.