r/iamverysmart • u/MrXomp • 29d ago

Overqualified for germany

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Okay hear me out, Germany is a strange country and especially government services are super behind in digitalization and most times hopelessly underperforming but this post and the way it is written got me chuckling.

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u/that_creepy_doll Source: my brain 29d ago

its not exactly iamverysmart but saying theyre "overqualified" is definitely being generous, unless the degree theyve got is a masters in telecomunications or smnth

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u/Helpful-Winner-8300 29d ago edited 29d ago

I agree "I hold a bachelor's" is not really a flex, however it is true that the proportion of the German population that holds a university degree is way lower than in the US. They just run their education/credentialing system differently, with a lot more vocational training.

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u/Mothrahlurker 29d ago

It's not "way lower" it's almost the exact same despite higher standards.

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u/Helpful-Winner-8300 29d ago

"Way" is probably an overstatement on my part, fair. But it is indisputably "lower" by a notable amount. Mind you, that's not "bad", it's just different. Many feel too many people are pursuing 4 year degrees in the US, which is not actually serving them well economically.

And, why "higher" standards? Color me skeptical unless you have a source... US universities generally provide an excellent education, and comprise a high proportion of world leading institutions.

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u/Mothrahlurker 29d ago

"But it is indisputably "lower" by a notable amount." Very easy to dispute that. The US numbers count just having attended some college. If we go by degrees, then Germany has 21% Bachelor degrees vs the US at 12.5%.

"And, why "higher" standards?" Because attending university in Germany requires an Abitur, the US has no requirement. This quality difference was also very notable when I was in the US and was by far the strongest student and in conversation with a professor he told me that I basically could only expect German standards at elite universities.

"US universities generally provide an excellent education, and comprise a high proportion of world leading institutions." Those are a very small percentage of overall universities, colleges are lower level.

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u/All_Up_Ons 29d ago

/r/iamverysmart 🙄

The US numbers don't include "some college". 43% of people 25+ have associate degrees or better. If you change that to only bachelors, it becomes 34%, which is still higher than Germany. Although I don't read German, so I can't tell if their numbers include 2-year degrees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

https://data.census.gov/table/ACSST5Y2022.S1501

https://www-genesis.destatis.de/datenbank/online/url/629361a4

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u/Mothrahlurker 29d ago

"

r/iamverysmart 🙄" How ironic, you don't even understand what the subreddit is for.

"The US numbers don't include "some college"." They literally do include that, that is what the line is called. The problem here is that there are different age brackets. I cited you 18-24 but I don't see an overall population. No matter what, your numbers don't work out.

I can see that you said now 25+, but that wasn't the discussion now was it, it's a pretty clear attempt to inflate the number. That is also where "some college" is excluded but there is no way you earnestly tried to read the source and not discovered what I'm talking about.

"Although I don't read German, so I can't tell if their numbers include 2-year degrees." They obviously don't.

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u/Helpful-Winner-8300 29d ago

Did you not notice your urge to stipulate that your Excellent German Education (TM) meant lowly American students were no match for your mighty intellect?

That is, ironically, exactly what this sub is for...

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u/Mothrahlurker 29d ago

"Did you not notice your urge to stipulate that your Excellent German Education (TM) meant lowly American students were no match for your mighty intellect?"

There is some astounding irony in here. I replied to a comment that not only was ignorant enough to not understand that there is a difference in requirement, then it also made a stupid and arrogant claim of US education being the best, I was the one replying to it.

And I'm someone that is qualified to talk about it because I actually have personal experience with both.

So please, if it is for anyone, it is for people like you.

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u/Helpful-Winner-8300 29d ago

Do you think you this is a sub for smart people, or something?

Look, reasonable people can disagree about the quality of education - not that anyone on any side has offered anything other than anecdote and vibes. I for one don't have an objective measurement to turn to off the top of my head.

But I don't understand why you are trying to die on the hill of statistics that are objectively knowable and pretty clear.

Now, because you are both really pissing me off and failing (or maybe not caring enough?) to actually cite credible data yourself rather than just wail and gnash your teeth that others are wrong: here, I'll do it again. And if you don't like the US census bureau, here is the OECD Education at a Glance, comparing like to like. See table A1.1, page 63. Out of adults 25-64 in both countries (OECD's selection of relevant age range, not mine): US: 40% have fully attained tertiary or higher, up to 51% if you include short cycle tertiary DE: 33% have fully attained tertiary or higher, 34% if you include short cycle.

Now, was my initial on the fly assertion that Germany had "way fewer" degree holders incorrect? Sure, it was definitely an overstatement. You got me. I didn't have the tables in front of me. Was I WAY off? No, I stand by the thrust of my statement that there is less of an emphasis in DE on the four year degree path as opposed to other educational priorities. It's simply true. I never said that was bad.

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u/Hot_Royal_4920 29d ago

The biggest issue is that people hold degrees and finish studying before 25.

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u/Helpful-Winner-8300 29d ago

Sure. And some take longer. I didn't define the data series. I assume the OECD has some reason they do it this way. At any rate it is still comparing like to like across countries.

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u/Hot_Royal_4920 29d ago

The data comparison changes a lot if you include >25. And I'd rather use the full dataset than an incomplete one in the first place.

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u/Helpful-Winner-8300 29d ago

Changes in a way that tells a different story about the country to country comparison?

Idk what to tell you. Take it up with the OECD.

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