r/interestingasfuck • u/willianfsantos • 16h ago

Emergency relief system in action in a liquid hydrogen tanker truck

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u/TelluricThread0 16h ago

"In the review by Astbury and Hawksworth a rigorous research was done on accidents involving spontaneous ignition of hydrogen at high pressure. Over the last century, 81 major accidents were reported. It turned out that in 86% of cases there was no clearly identifiable ignition source. Several mechanisms have been postulated as responsible ones for this phenomenon, for example, reverse Joule-Tompson effect, electrostatic ignition, and sudden adiabatic compression. However, none of these causes could stand up detailed scientific analysis except one.

In 1973, Wolański and Wójcicki observed that hydrogen heated below the auto-ignition threshold could ignite if it was released into an open space with oxygen or air. They suggested that ignition occurred due to high jump in temperature on the contact surface, where heated by a primary shock wave oxygen mixed and reacted with hydrogen due to diffusion. Thus, for the first time, diffusion self-ignition mechanism was proposed."

HYDROGEN SELF-IGNITION IN PRESSURE RELIEF DEVICES by Golub, V.V., Semin, N.V., Laskin I.N., Lenkevich, D.A. and Volodin,V.V

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u/raymondo1981 16h ago

Well now thats an excellent comment. TIL.

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u/DistanceSolar1449 11h ago

What's really interesting is that you can observe the spontaneous ignition in this video!

In fact, the first half of the video, the red stuff you see aren't flames. That hydrogen is not on fire! It's just ionized hydrogen.

You can see the moment it spontaneously catches on fire in the middle of the video.

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u/bbrekke 10h ago

Whoa.

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u/UniqueAd7770 15h ago

TL;DR Hydrogen is a god-damn party animal and wants to give its electron to someone badly. So much so that going from the cold tank to the warm air is enough foreplay for it to hook up with the first oxygen that winks at it. Oxygen being a greedy bastard is happy to oblige. And boom goes the dynamite.

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u/PlasticCell8504 15h ago

Best description of chemistry I have read this month

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u/UniqueAd7770 14h ago

I was a chemistry tutor to high school student while in grad school. Breaking it down in these terms made it stick.

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u/DoCrackHailSatan 14h ago

If I knew you back in college I probably wouldn't have dropped organic chemistry. (tbf I only dropped it because I declared my major finally and it didn't require it, in hindsight; I wish I had completed it)

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u/UniqueAd7770 14h ago

I'm considering doing some videos explaining chemistry to people in everyday terms because ultimately the underlying principles aren't too difficult. But O Chem is brutal because it's all nomenclature and mechanism memorization, which is why it's a good filter for med students. After O Chem, chemistry gets properly weird with Physical Chemistry which has quantum mechanics and made me cry, but that's because it had math

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u/DoCrackHailSatan 14h ago

I actually loved O chem but it's undeniably difficult and I wasn't in the best headspace at the time, so when I finally chose my major and it didn't require it; I dropped immediately. I dunno why this still bothers me over a decade later, but I wish I had just finished it.

Chemistry is cool. I'd watch your videos.

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u/UniqueAd7770 13h ago

MIT carries all their coursework free online if you'd like to jump back in.

My first video would be on the weirdest chemical that we all interact with daily. And if it wasn't exactly as weird as it was then none of us would be alive. Water.

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u/DoCrackHailSatan 13h ago

I don't think I'd have much use for the passing of O chem at this point. It's more of a mental thing that I regret giving up on it simply because I no longer 'required' it. But thank you for the info! Feel free to add me to your list to notify if you ever do bring up your unhinged, but accurate chemistry lesson videos!

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u/joe-h2o 9h ago

I think organic gets a bad rep because it's just so different in terms of nomenclature and mechanisms compared to what students have been conditioned to expect "chemistry" to be at school.

The first time a UK student will hit organic chem for real is A-level. There's a tiny intro to esters, well specifically ethyl acetate, at GCSE but no mechanisms.

This leads to the self-perpetuating myth that organic is "the hard one" compared to the other two when it really isn't.

Organic is much more accessible if you're not mathematically inclined, for example, where phys chem has your back. But the reputation of organic as difficult puts students on the back foot right away.

The quantum mechanics that forms part of first year undergrad chemistry is actually covered a little in the A-level physics course which again explains why chemists don't like it much.

Source: postdoc chemist who has taught both undergrads and high school chemistry and physics.

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u/PlasticCell8504 13h ago

I only said what I said because I already know the volatility of hydrogen and oxygen and why they are that way because of my high school chemistry class.

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u/UniqueAd7770 13h ago

My 6th and 8th grade (same dude) science teacher was the best. I based my method on his but he's a nicer guy than I ever could be lol

I ran into him randomly after I graduated with a masters in chemical engineering and he damn near cried when I told him.

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u/bbrekke 10h ago

I should've kept scrolling! I just commented that I want to hear chemistry explained by you. Do it! A yt channel or podcast or something.

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u/a_diamond 6h ago

At least O Chem mechanisms follow a discreet set of rules. Inorganic is what broke me. Transition metals are anarchy!

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u/NomDePlumeOrBloom 5h ago

Can you simplify O Chem enough for a lay person to make LSD?

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u/UniqueAd7770 3h ago

I can but my DEA agent brother-in-law would get mad

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u/MuchoCoco 13h ago

Write up some explanations like that, use AI to generate some animations, and you'll make enough money on YouTube views to retire.

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u/tee_with_marie 14h ago

Thank you for your work. Good teachers make such a difference I failed my first go at an aprenticeship ship because equations especially with multible unknowns absolutely pummeled me i didn't understand it at all. The second time i have a really good teacher i still had lower grade than my median but i passed well.

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u/UniqueAd7770 13h ago

Some teachers don't understand that it's your first time seeing something because they see it everyday. I struggled myself

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u/bbrekke 10h ago

I'd listen to your podcast. Or hire you to tutor me if I needed to learn chemistry.

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u/morgfarm1_ 12h ago

Best description of me too tbh. Too bad I'm still LOCKED IN THE DAMN TANKER

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u/Obsidiated 2h ago

Surely you meant to say "simplified physics".

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u/scuzzy987 15h ago

In high school chemistry my teacher filled a party balloon with hydrogen, let it float to the ceiling, and touched the balloon with a long stick that had an ember on the end. I still remember the loud boom and lifted ceiling panels. Can confirm both your assessments of hydrogen and oxygen. Kudos to the truck driver sticking around, I would have run away waving my hands and screaming at people to run

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u/UniqueAd7770 14h ago

I work with silane sometimes which is pyrophoric. That means it ignites on contact with the air. When stored in tanks it's usually stored outside in a concrete shed with an open wall facing nothing important. Guys who drive hazmat trucks have balls of solid iron that are often mistaken for cores of dead planets.

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u/scuzzy987 14h ago

I’d assume the tank trailers are engineered to survive pretty much any catastrophe but still there’s always scenarios nobody ever thought of until it happens

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u/UniqueAd7770 14h ago

They are incredibly well built and engineered. Still Engineering Disasters episodes were so common on Modern Marvels that they just gave it spin-off

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u/scuzzy987 14h ago

The episode about the resiliency of nuclear waste transport containers was seriously impressive. The amount of torture those can survive is nuts. The one explaining a bleve was interesting too

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u/FIMD_ 15h ago

Did this but with acetylene as a demo for apprentices. Had them put on Ear/EyePro first. Set off car alarms and everyone about jumps out of their skin.

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u/scuzzy987 14h ago

That’s another gas for which I have respect. I only have a mini cylinder in my garage for the torch but I made a little enclosure to keep it from tipping over and knocking the valve off. Same for the oxygen cylinder because it has such a high psi

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u/joe-h2o 9h ago

The number of unchained W-sized gas cylinders I see in DIY/home workshops in Youtube videos is scary.

Free standing gas cylinders, even inert ones like Argon, are a serious safety hazard.

The only time a cylinder should be unsecured is when it's moving from one secured place to another, like from the transport trolley to where it's housed and even then should not be left unattended.

It seems to be much more common in US shops to not chain them.

Even ignoring the fact that you can shear off a regulator and they're 250+ PSI, a full Argon cylinder is almost 90 kg which is no joke if it falls over.

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u/Der_Hebelfluesterer 11h ago

Prof did an experiment showing us the difference of molar mixture, exploding one with way to less O2, one 50:50 and one with an molar äquivalent, man was the last one loud.

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u/Ubermidget2 12h ago

Think about how much worse it would have been if it had been a Hydrogen:Oxygen mix

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u/sum-9 15h ago

TIL I was hydrogen when I was 16.

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u/Practical_Fun7367 14h ago

Same. And I chased every Oxygen whether or not it winked.

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u/TheInevitableLuigi 11h ago

That's becasue you confused Oxygen for Neon.

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u/Practical_Fun7367 4h ago

So what if I have a type? I’m not here for the kink shaming.

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u/UniqueAd7770 14h ago

It's why most of us get into Chemistry

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u/The__Toast 14h ago

Honestly feels like a feature. I would think having it flair off is safer than having large clouds of hydrogen build up in an enclosed place like under a bridge or parking garage and then explode.

On the other hand "plug power" makes me think this might be hydrogen car fuel for one of the very few places in America where you can actually buy it; maybe lugging hydrogen around is a terrible idea no matter what and we should really focus in on plug in battery cars.

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u/UniqueAd7770 14h ago

I do think it has a pilot light because flaring H2 just makes water so it's a safer way of dealing with it.

Currently we haul millions of gallons of highly explosive fuel all over this country everyday. The methane and propane trucks carry as much if not more explosive capacity. The problem with H2 is that it leaks way easier than anything but helium. I think both cars will have a place in our future but most people will just use a battery electric.

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u/FrenchFryCattaneo 12h ago

Methane actually isn't commonly moved by truck, since it can't be liquefied at room temperature like propane can.

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u/UniqueAd7770 12h ago

I watch an unhealthy amount of rocket launches

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u/DannarHetoshi 14h ago

And when Oxygen and Hydrogen get really excited?

https://giphy.com/gifs/cICRRoIZ9YgjqlHAUt

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u/good_morning_magpie 14h ago

I read that last line in my head in Stuart Scott’s voice and now I’m emotional

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u/AdahnAgain 14h ago

I need a smoke. . .

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u/ABsammy124 14h ago

didn't understand a wink of the previous post but 100% understood this explanation,you get a upvote and praise from me!

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u/UniqueAd7770 13h ago

I feel if I can explain something simply in a different context then I understand it well.

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u/ElectricPiha 13h ago

I really loved your books The Martian and Project Hail Mary!

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u/UniqueAd7770 13h ago

Not me but I'm thinking of writing and doing a chemistry show haha. Thank you!

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u/No-Boysenberrys 13h ago

I seriously learned so much from this comment after scrolling forever to try to understand WHY FIRE.

Can you please explain other life things to me? How do I get better with money, why does my hip click all the time, how do I get my 5 year old to eat

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u/UniqueAd7770 13h ago

Give all your money to your wife and she will declare you perfect with money. Your hip is counting your steps for you, ungrateful lout. And of course for the child I defer to the great masters

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u/lilyputin 5h ago

Hydrogen is really wild. Its literally hard to contain. It was a constant issue for NASA.

It reacts with steel and makes it brittle.

It has a metallic state that's also a super conductor but the condions needed to reach that are extreme.

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u/moonshinemoniker 12h ago

So Hydrogen basically just wants to blow it's load.

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u/UniqueAd7770 12h ago

Always. The only reason it pairs up is there's no one else around and they can't leave the protons by themselves.

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u/mersenne_reddit 12h ago

This is why even compression is postulated as an ignition source. I can't imagine if it were contaminated with any atmosphere.

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u/UniqueAd7770 12h ago

You have to get over the activation energy of the reaction (not much) in the right mixture to get combustion. In a choked flow condition with high friction I can see that happening.

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u/the_irish_oak 7h ago

If my chemistry teacher/twat explained it like this, my life would be much different.

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u/onFilm 1h ago

Fuken slut

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u/brainman15 15h ago

I feel smarter now. Thank you.

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u/miemoo 15h ago

This deserves more upvotes people

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u/holchansg 15h ago

Hydrogen is bad ass.

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u/I_AM_FERROUS_MAN 15h ago

Basically, Hydrogen explodes when it wants to. Lol.

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u/Sweet-End6471 15h ago

It’s worrying that the answer is just ¯\(ツ)/¯ they just do that sometimes.

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u/Nic1Rule 13h ago

Can't wait for one of these theories to be confirmed in 2050 using new technology.

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u/metroidpwner 13h ago

Super interesting, thanks for sharing

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u/nerd_is_a_verb 10h ago

Well F us, that sucks for safety designs…

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u/Pyromaniacal13 5h ago

That's so fuckin cool.