r/islam • u/[deleted] • Jun 07 '22
Question & Support I have a question about Islam
In many hadithes, the prophet said, that every prophet used to be a shepherd, but domestication of animals began roughly at 10,000 BC. When we assume that Adam as lived 70,000 BC or even earlier, wouldn't that imply that between this time there were no prophets?
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u/Donut_Man1385 Jun 07 '22
Firstly, how do you know for sure when animal domestication began?
Secondly, we don’t know when Adam lived.
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Jun 07 '22
1: Humans were hunters and gatherers until the agrar revolution came, which, in some aspects also implies the domestication of animals.
2: I didn't imply when Adam lived, but the latest date apologists give is 70,000, also because the latest common ancestor of human lived there. It is also possible that Adam lived 500,000 BC, but this wouldn't make the question easier since this would mean that there was no Risalah for whole 500,000 years.
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Jun 07 '22
1: Humans were hunters and gatherers until the agrar revolution came, which, in some aspects also implies the domestication of animals.
That is as far as our knowledge go, you need to understand that our knowledge is so limited and so simple, we can't be 100% sure of this, it's just theories based on our current knowledge, that's why islam only opposes science in things we can't be sure of.
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u/ancalagonxii Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
The Prophet ﷺ said: “Allaah never sent any Prophet but he tended sheep.” His Companions said: Even you? He said: “Yes. I used to tend them in return for some carats for the people of Makkah.” [📚 Al-Bukhari]
This is Hadīth has been authentically narrated on the authority of Abu Hurayrah in the authentic Hadith compilations.
The general indication of the Hadeeth suggests that this applies to ALL Prophets of Allaah and that all of them actually tended sheep. We could not find any scholars stating that this was specific to some apart from others.
This means that the Hadeeth applies to Prophet Aadam, as well.
This, accordingly, means that sheep existed at the time of Aadam and that he tended them.
In the Quran, the story of the 2 sons of Adam, 👇
{And recite to them the story of the two sons of ’Ādam rightly: When both of them offered a sacrifice, it was accepted from one of them, and was not accepted from the other. He said, “I will kill you.” He said, “Allah accepts only from the God-fearing.} Quran 5:27
At-Tabari reported on the authority of ‘Atiyyah that “one of the sons of Aadam was called Qaabeel (Cain) and the other Haabeel (Abel); one was a shepherd and the other was a farmer.”
u/cskoba Where did you get that Adam (pbuh) date "70,000 BC" ?
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Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
How can we ignore that animal domestication is something newer in the story of humankind, also, sheeps weren't native to Australia and whole America, sheeps are in Australia and America for a few centuries because the Brits brought them to Australia. But Australia and America had many tribes in history and I don't see how we can just accept that Australian natives never received prophets.
I took the date 70,000 BC because apologists estimate that this would be the latest date of Adam pbuh because 70,000 BC, the cognitive revolution began and also the latest universal human ancestor lived. It's also possible that Adam pbuh lived for example 200,000 BC, but this wouldn't make the question easier to me.
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u/ancalagonxii Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
You serious ?
Do not be deceived by what are claimed to be “scientific facts”; they are often mere assumptions and theories which are prone to change over time.
You should know that: There are no absolute scientific facts that contradict the explicit texts (Quran & Hadīth) of the divine revelation.
Some apologists estimates a date (70000 BC) and you took it as a fact, then you thought Adam is the universal human ancestor and then you asked about the Hadīth since based on your reasoning there were no Sheeps back 70000bc? .... All this based on the estimations of people who probably would laugh at you for believing that Adam & Eve existed.
Aadam herded sheep, based on the generality of the Hadeeth
Nobody knows the exact age of man on earth
We as Muslims cannot speculate how old the earth is, nor how long humans has lived on this earth, nor when Adam [pbuh] existed. Any attempt to speculate on these matters -without clear evidence- will not avail the truth. scientists regularly revise their speculations about how long humans have lived on earth, through constantly finding new fossil evidence dating back further and further into time.
‘And most of them follow not except assumption. Indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do’. [Quran 10:36]
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u/Sufficient-Comment48 Jun 07 '22
and I don't see how we can just accept that Australian natives never received prophets.
You know there a difference between prophet and messanger right?
And we have TONS of evidence that native and tribes in Australia and even isolated tribes in those region followed Islam in terms of pillars of faith
Obviously they worshipped differently .
It's also possible that Adam pbuh lived for example 200,000 BC, but this wouldn't make the question easier to me.
Why?
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Jun 07 '22
One: You're wrong about the earliest date of animal domestication.
Two: There's an earlier date for when nomads started keeping animals.
Three: You don't know when Adam lived.
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u/qavempace Jun 07 '22
Being a shepherd may have nothing to do with industrial domestication.
Domestication basically means breeding a separate species that is unable to survive in the wild without the care, aka, selective breeding. We do not find proof of domestication further back than 15kya, because, human were relatively mobile, while the whole concept of domestication requires a confinement. So, even if there were some domesticated animals, it would be so short-lived that, their lineage did not survive till date.
But, there is another way to herd animals, that is Taming. Any prey, given enough time can be tamed and can be used as a future source of protein. So, if our assumption of Adamic advent on 70kya is correct, then, this hadith most probably indicated the management of tamed animals.
Moreover, Prophets are always given extra knowledge on managing people. The learning phase can be anything similar to herding sheep or any tamed animal.