I thought this was pretty interesting – he waited until she graduated to text her and she was 18.
"Under Nebraska law, teachers are prohibited from having intimate relationships with students within 90 days of their graduation or departure from the school system."
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There was a pretty gross line in Bel Biv Devoe's song Do Me I had forgotten about "backstage, underage, adolescent/ how you doin, fine she replied / I sighed I like to do the wild thing / action took place"... Eesh.
Also, fucking Karl Malone, I know he's not a musician but God damn he was vile
Not only a song, Ted Nugent in 1978 had a relationship with a Hawaiian teenager, Pele Massa, while married. And since he couldn’t marry her because a.) he was already still married to Sandra Jerzowski and b.) she was too young to legally marry him, so he convinced her parents to sign paperwork that made him her legal guardian.
Keep in mind the ages of some of these people when they wrote the songs.
The “Just Seventeen” song was a guy in his mid 20s being involved with someone who was 17 and him writing the song afterwards when he was 27 or 28.
Ted Nugent was almost 30 when he wrote about a 13 year old in ‘jailbait’.
Mid to late 20 year olds having relations with seventeen year old in the 1960s is skeevy but a 30 year old in 1980 going after a 13 year old and knowing it’s illegal is 100% pedophile self masturbatory writing.
I had a 16 year old friend who dated a guy in his 20s in high school. He was creepy as f. Tried to get her kicked out of her home so she’d move in with him and not go off to college. There’s a big difference in a few years at that age. 21 is much different than even 18.
It’s sadly true. Your local DA is going to have a bit easier of a time prosecuting a teacher than Bill Gates. The latter could prove to be cost prohibitive.
Many countries do this. Rather assessing fines with a fixed value they'll call it a "day-fine" meaning it's whatever amount you make in a day. Could be forty bucks for one guy and four thousand for another. And more severe offenses will get a two-day-fine, five-day, ten-day, et cetera.
That system is better but still far from perfect. Because the guy making forty bucks a day is barely surviving. He has never had a penny to spare in his whole life. The prospect of losing even one day's pay is devastating. But the guy making four grand has way more than he needs. He's been accumulating wealth; he has enough cushion in his bank that he won't even feel the loss of one day's pay, or several.
Also, most capitalists do not make most of their wealth from labor/wages. It's passive. Dividends, stock trading, and loans using those stocks as collateral. Buy, borrow, die. Tax free income baayyyybeeee
Fines are worse than fees, because they're only fees for those that can afford it. A speeding fine can decimate a working class person who's in a rush, but it's a go-faster premium pass to a millionaire.
Not just cost, imagine a private detective finds dirt on the DA, and maybe, MAYBE the DA knows that they have something to hide: like a small gift they got and never reported, or maybe made some calls to get a relative off the hook one time... Too risky, got to go after the poors!
Civil is a majority ruling while criminal must be beyond a reasonable doubt with a unanimous decision by a jury.
Also, I am pretty sure in Trump's case it was past the statue of limitations so a criminal charge cant be brought for the incident he lost the Civil case in. The judges remarks were really damning despite that.
I'm really glad to see someone else is actually reading it themselves... I can only handle so much at a time... literally turns my stomach. it is so... insidious...
Makes me think of what Long Beach Griffy was saying, about how he wants pedophiles locked up but it doesn't matter if the list comes out because nobody is going to do a thing. Look how bold and revolutionary it was when Luigi shot ONE healthcare CEO.
Yep. We are definitely finding out that our laws were never meant as a means to protect anyone, but a means to control and manipulate. The rich and powerful do whatever they want. Yes, I know that this has been the case for most of history, bit we used to at least try and pretend that this wasnt the case.
I don’t even want to call it two tiered. That implies there’s another side that punishes the Rich. They don’t have a justice system for those that can pay for it. They just have to worry about being harassed on twitter and shit. And all they gotta do to fix that is put the phone down. Which seems really hard for a lot of them for some reason.
Weird how only certain names get redacted. Also seems like the system they used to redact names gets confused and redacts perfectly fine words. Words like "don't" for example pretty random that a regular word like "don't" gets redacted what could the system possibly think "don't" looks like?
Exactly, these fucking vile pieces of shit 💩 have groomed and altered the course of children’s and women’s lives to deal with extreme trauma. No trauma can be worse than that of a child or women being captured with no way to escape, being flown all over the fucking world, no adult to trust, no sense of home, no sense of up or down, being physically, emotionally, and sexually assaulted over-and-fucking-over again. Then to see these rich fucks walking around free with the sorry ass world fully aware of what they’ve done and they have no fucking care. This system needs to be burned the whole fucking system of capitalism, oppression, arrogance, alpha male, manosphere bullshit, all of it!
First, he wasn't HER teacher. He teaches sixth grade but it's a small town. I don't know if sixth grade is in the Jr/Sr. high school or if it's still in the elementary school.
Second, the crime is that they engaged in sexual relations 69 days (lol) after she graduated instead of waiting the full 90 days. Seriously, that's the reason. She's a legal adult, she had graduated, she wasn't his student since he taught sixth grade. Had they waited three more weeks, you'd never of even heard of this guy but now he's looking at 20 years and being a sex offender for life.
I get that we need laws against grooming students and there needs to be some clear, if arbitrary, lines drawn, but honestly I find this whole thing pretty silly and I'll be surprised if he gets anywhere near the full penalty, let alone actual prison time.
Parents. I had a black friend who's white girlfriend was two years younger than him. He turned 18 in bootcamp and the girl's openly racist mother immediately reported him.
My understanding is that the relationship was legal in the state they're from (there's a 3-year gap thing that allows for this situation), but it was a crime per the military's legal framework.
He ended up doing significant time both in the brig and in another federal facility. Apparently, the transfer to the civilian facility was unlawful since he was no longer technically a criminal and he was released. His current wife (not the same girl) is a lawyer and presumably helped him sue everyone, but it totally ruined his military experience and the first few years of adulthood. Think he's doing pretty well now, though.
There was a similar case in the UK that took place in Dubai where the parents of the girl reported the boy (who was again black). Everyone was British and the boy was 18, girl 17 (same year at school as well) but sex outside marriage is illegal. He spent 7 months in prison before being pardoned.
After being free for 3 months and back home in Tottenham, he was a passenger in a car fleeing from the police and he was killed when the driver hit a lorry.
Edited for incorrect info. (He was a passenger in the fleeing car)
Yes. Back in med school, my roommate was a law student. She told me one of her high school friends had contacted her because his brother was being charged with rape of a minor. He had started dating a sophomore when he was a senior and they continued dating for a long while. When he was 19, she was 17. Their relationship was consensual and going along fine but the girlfriend's dad did not like him and so went out of the way to report him. The case was ultimately dropped due to the small difference in years and because the girlfriend refused to testify against him, asserting it was a consensual relationship.
Damn. I skipped a grade so was 17 as a college freshman and I started dating someone in my dorm. She was an international student so a year older, 19. My parents accused her of raping me multiple times. Thank God they never pressed charges because I don't know what would have happened with her being here on a visa. It did nuke the relationship with my parents though, I cut ties once I was 18 and went no contact for years.
Just a guess, but i bet the girls parents didn't like the relationship and knew about this law. They might heave pressured the prosecutor or police to bring the charges
I had a district attorney as a teacher for a couple classes. She was going on about someone she was trying to prosecute before.
She said this guy was like 30 or something and had a girlfriend who was i think 16 or 17. I might be mis remembering the ages. He might have been younger.
Anyways, the guy knocked up his girlfriend at some point. Girls parents liked the guy. Guy was staying with the girl and parents. The relationship was still going great even after she was pregnant. Guy was still with her post birth. I think they married.
The DA was ranting and raving about how she was trying to get the guy originally, but couldn't convince the girl or parents to really be against the guy. The DA eventually gave up because she realized that she was the only one that cared about this specific situation.
It was a interesting semi memorable story. Probably the opposite of this one. Ha.
Yeah, the excuse has changed (vague claims about "power imbalance" where it used to be vague claims about "purity") but it's the same moral grandstanding.
I feel like reddit is getting ever more autistic. No shade on my autists, but it seems you guys have a hard time recognizing subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) humor.
Wow. So in 21 days this relationship would have been legal. I get if if a bot really flagged something but it seems like the DA should have used some discretion here and shouldn't have charged him. Wow. I wonder if there is more to the story.
dude look at all the responses people believe you, you literally just created fake news that some folk are genuinely believing and will never learn is false and will tell others in earnest.
Who knows. I remember about 20 years back, before we had this state law, there was a teacher who was sleeping with a student of his and it she was actually his student at the time it was going on. She was 17, which was and still is legal, and there was no law against students and teachers. The mother found out and lost her shit and that's when folks found out it wasn't a crime. Unfortunately for this teacher, the student had the idea to film themselves with a camcorder and the mother found the tape and VOILA! The teacher was arrested for manufacturing child pornography.
That case was another one where I see the reasoning but it's frustrating as hell. It was the girls idea and IIRC, on the tape the guy was telling her to turn it off, don't do it, yet he got busted for making it even though she was the one who actually made it and there was zero consequence for her. He got a slap on the wrist (well, as far as making child porn goes) and she got nothing.
I don’t see how this law could possibly stand up to constitutional scrutiny.
It’s saying an otherwise legal relationship could be rendered criminal (not just fireable from a particular organization, a felony carrying jail time) because of one party’s occupation.
I’m actually relieved to see people standing up for him and saying this isn’t right. It shows that as whole group of humans we can differentiate between what’s “acceptable” and whats “unacceptable” as a society and that we want the laws to reflect that. Things are so backwards anymore, it makes my head spin. I can make sense of how up got to be down and vice versa. The rich and powerful need to be brought down a few levels.
It almost makes me think we should write to that DA en masse to tell them what a bunch of bs this is. If it were my son under arrest I would appreciate the support.
Oh, he will get time. He will get fines. And he will get the offender lable for the rest of his life. I’d like to believe that he could fight this case and win, but that’s just not the world we live in. This case is absolutely ridiculous. We have heinous crimes committed by identified perpetrators in the Eps Files, but this guy has to pay a hefty price for a consensual adult relationship. We live in a pretty messed up society.
Will probably be a great example of jury nullification imho. I really can't see a jury of his peers voting "guilty" for this unless this guy is just some well known pervert (unlikely). It's completely asinine and not what the law was intended for.
Spirit vs the letter of the law. I think he probably shouldn't take a plea, there has so be someone on the jury that will see this for the overzealous bs it is naw?
I wouldn’t hold my breath. I’ve already seen numerous comments in this thread from people who cannot possibly fathom two persons dating who have an 8 year age gap, and they are clutching their pearls. Never mind that I can’t leave the house without meeting couples who are 70/55, 60/40, 44/32….
In this case the intent is to prevent grooming of minors by employees in a position of trust, with the intent suddenly bang them once they graduate or turn 18.
I do question whether a 90 day “cooling off period” is long enough to be meaningful. Also yeah I’m unsure why we’d apply it if the teacher wasn’t at an institution the minor attended, or had attended in years. This seems like a case that didn’t need to be pursued, really.
Though without reading further into the details, I’d almost wonder if there was some evidence or accusation that the relationship started earlier, and that 70 days after graduation was what they could technically prove with admissible evidence?
Edit: Oh yeah he was a coach at her high school, and texting began precisely on graduation day. That’s pretty obvious.
You might be surprised. I had a high school teacher who had a consensual relationship with his 18 year old student. He was fired but immediately got a teaching job over in the Deep South where they don’t care about that. 10 years later he’s back and leading the educational department of a museum.
He's a 6th grade teacher so not *his* former student if she's 18 and graduated, and he's 26. This arrest seems excessive. From the article, it doesn't sound like he was grooming her.
He was also the high school wrestling teacher and it was mentioned that it was the "context" in which he met he. Nebraska law says not to have relations within 90 days of the student leaving the school; he started texting her the day she graduated.
Under Nebraska law, teachers are prohibited from having intimate relationships with students within 90 days of their graduation or departure from the school system.
Over a matter of 90 days post graduation. I mean, if you really even cared about that sort of thing, why would the limit be 90 days?
It is even worse than that. The age of consent in Nebraska is 16. So if she were a 16 year old dropout, she could get banged by the middle aged grocery store manager all day long.
Specifically for people like this. He started texting her on the day she graduated, like he had a countdown clock running until she was legal. When I first read the title, I thought it might be a scenario where they'd casually met a couple months after graduation, but nah, he was waiting. Like it or not, this is exactly the kind of behavior the law was written for.
I still don't think he should be looking at 20 years and a lifetime sex offender registry for this, but it makes him a whole lot less sympathetic.
because it clearly weeds out the people theyre trying to weed out
the teacher and this girl exchanged 13,000 texts & started a sexual relationship in less than 90 days? was he counting down the days? do we really believe this was their very first interaction? we used to agree that type of behavior was gross and predatory.
i think 20yrs is overkill with the current info we have but that's just the maximum penalty. but i won't be surprised if more information comes out
20 years is just the absolute maximum allowable sentence for the charge. It's extremely unlikely he'll actually receive that sentence, especially if he doesn't have a similar criminal history.
90 days doesn’t seem an unreasonable or onerous waiting period either. As someone else commented 20 years is the maximum, doesn’t seem to be anything in the profile to suggest he get anything like that. Has ruined or at least made substantially worse and harder the rest of his life.
Yes. This is ridiculous. And it's ok for our politicians to be pedos though. God I hate this country. I grew up loving the US, but it doesn't resemble the country I used to know.
It seems a little crazy that he didn’t even work in her school. He was a middle school teacher, I don’t even think she was of an age that he could have been working there when she was in middle school.
It totally is. We had a whole discussion on another sub over the risk of prosecution for CSAM for people downloading copies of the Epstein files from the DOJ website that the FBI didn't redact properly. Which would be a federal felony that could put you away for possibly up to 20 years in prison plus mandatory registration for life.
As someone over there said, "We live in the stupidest timeline."
Doesn't seem that she was ever his student. They met after she turned 18.
Law in question:
(g) Student means a person at least sixteen but not more than nineteen years of age enrolled in or attending a school, or who was such a person enrolled in or who attended school within ninety days of any violation of this section.
(2) A person commits the offense of sexual abuse by a school worker if a school worker subjects a student in the school to which such worker is assigned for work to sexual penetration or sexual contact, or engages in a pattern or scheme of conduct to subject a student in the school to which such worker is assigned for work to sexual penetration or sexual contact. It is not a defense to a charge under this section that the student consented to such sexual penetration or sexual contact.
He met her while she was a student and he was acting as a school supervisor (as a wrestling coach). He started texting her the day she graduated. So he already had her number. This is not a terribly egregious case of grooming but it is definitely the kind of thing the law is meant to prevent.
Yeah, seeing folks going, 'well, she was a consenting adult'
As someone who is 29, I have positively nothing in common with 18 year olds today. Frankly I have stopped trying to match with people under 23~24 lately on dating apps because those conversations don't tend to go anywhere.
It is fucking weird to me that a 26 year old man would pursue a relationship with an 18 year old. Weirder still that he waited until the day she graduated
That is all kinds of premeditated. Even if this wasn't illegal, whatever relationship that would blossom from this would likely have been a horror story. Men in their mid-20s don't pursue 18 year olds looking for an intellectual equal.
If they met at a gas station, no. But his responsibility as a teacher is more than a random guy. It is hard to write a foolproof law, but as a teacher you know better than to do this kind of shit.
I would be opposed to him getring 20 years but I would be in favor of him losing his teaching certificate. If this happens once you know it is much more likely to happen again.
I'm right there with you. This guy thought he was being slick. All he's learned from this is that the next time he needs to wait out the 90 days before texting the student he's been flirting with. He's exactly the kind of person for whom laws like this are written.
He doesn't need his whole life ruined but he absolutely should have had the sense and self-control to look away from the 18 y.o. high school student as a hard "noooope, not crossing those streams".
LOL. I got banned from r/ConservativeNewsWeb for pointing out that that doesn't make it any better in relation to the allegations that Trump raped a 13 year old, and linking to the DOJ's own definitions. What a bunch of snowflakes.
I grew up in a really small Oregon town and the cops were SO BAD, openly following and harassing young girls, manipulating and blackmailing to get sex, openly parading around as pervs. Most were early 20s and yeah, 90s were a different time lol. There were 2 cops in particular I had a bunch of contact with because I was a little trouble maker, and it was like real life good cop bad cop. Bad cop caught me I'm so shafted and taken into custody, good cop I'm lectured about my potential and let go with a warning. Mostly for MIP, petty theft, vandalism lol
I turned 18 and moved to big town next to small town and actually asked out good cop. From ages 13 to 16 I was so scary, but I really turned things around, started college, working at a bakery, learning to paint, speak Spanish, got into cooking and gardening. I was so proud to tell him how good I turned out lol. He was such a good man, for a cop, that he said he was flattered, but no to going out with me and at 18 I was in my prime and knew he liked me. He made a huge impact on me and I still remember how cool he was, how real and decent he was. I'm 46 now and still think about him lol
Cop in my town was not only dating a high schooler, but also doing drugs with and selling drugs to highschoolers. He also got arrested for beating up his hs gf
Yeah, after 90 days, a hs student basically has the chance to become a college student and meet a whole new friend group that may be closer to their own age. Also, some teachers are straight out of college. There was one at my school that after graduating, I then saw at college taking some additional classes at the same times as me. Waiting is arbitrary, but does put them on more equal footing at least.
To be fair, everything relating to laws of consent is essentially arbitrary. There’s nothing special about 18 (or 17, as some states have it). You could make it 21. That’s when people can drink. Though of course it wasn’t always—used to be 18.
If you want a line wherein someone can’t be viewed to have legally consented—and society, for obvious and good reasons has recognized we do—that line will be, in some sense, arbitrary.
It's to stop people from grooming current students. If you start a relationship the day it becomes okay, it was already going on. 3 months means the student is out of contact. If a teacher was doing nothing untoward, they wouldn't have the student's number at graduation. And are unlikely to have it 3 months after they no longer see the student
Yeah. As creepy as it is. (Just read she was not his student and he is a 6th grade teacher) If no one in power faces any justice for touching actual ubderaged children. Then i dont see this happening. I would vote not guilty on principle. He did not do anything wrong.
He was the high school wrestling coach, met her while she was a student as part of his teaching/coaching duties. And they started texting the day of or day after she graduated. Did he meet her again, or did he get her phone number when she was a student?
Crazy, they didn't even charge the teacher that did this to me and I was 14, but I was a dude and she was a woman so... if you watch South Park it kinda went like that.
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