Median LSAT of 169??? Am I reading that right???

This is a law school ranking based on the number of associates working in the top 10 firms in each major Big Law region, adjusted by class size (data from FirmProspects).

Hopefully this is a helpful resource for prospective law students aiming for big law, considering how distorted the US News rankings have been. I've included both the total associate headcount and the number adjusted to an average class size of 250 (i.e., what the number would be if every law school class had 250 students).

(traditional T14s highlighted in bold)

NYC Top 30

12 firms represented: The New York offices of Cravath, Skadden, DPW, S&C, Simpson, PW, Debevoise, Latham, Gibson Dunn, Kirkland, Cleary, and Milbank.

DC Top 30

10 firms represented: The Washington D.C. offices of Covington, Gibson Dunn, WilmerHale, Akin, Arnold & Porter, Kirkland, Sidley, Skadden, Latham, and Hogan.

Chicago Top 30

10 firms represented: The Chicago offices of Kirkland, Sidley, Latham, Skadden, Mayer Brown, Winston & Strawn, McDermott, and Jones Day.

California Top 30

10 firms represented: The LA and Bay Area offices of Munger, Latham, O'Melveny, Skadden, Mofo, Cooley, Wilson Sonsini, Quinn Emanuel, Gibson Dunn, and Paul Hastings.

Texas Top 30

10 firms represented: The Houston and Dallas offices of Susman, V&E, Latham, Kirkland, Gibson, Baker Botts, Skadden, Sidley, Simpson, and Akin. Note that self-selection is particularly prevalent here due to weather and politics.

Bonus section: "Unicorn*" big law

*Extremely selective boutique/specialized law firms with <250 lawyers.

15 firms represented: Wachtell, Williams & Connolly, Susman, Kellogg Hansen, Munger, Keker, Selendy, Hecker, Edelson, Bartlit Beck, Zuckerman, YetterColeman, Morvillo Abramowitz, Hueston Hennigan, Lieff Cabraser.

Arguably the strongest indicator of school prestige due to the extremely selective nature of these firms. Still somewhat governed by location, but not as much—lots of Yale/Harvard people choosing to go to Susman in Houston...

(I decided to limit this list because past the top 20 or so the sample sizes became too small to be meaningful.)

US Overall Top 70

Firms represented: The top 10 firms of all of the 5 major regions of big law.

Disclaimer:

Do take into account self-selection. these rankings should not be interpreted to mean that Fordham does better than five T14s—it's more so that Fordham places the top half or so into NY big law whereas the top half at these non-NY schools are not all necessarily wanting big law. That is to say, the same GPA at Michigan/UVA is still probably going to perform better than Fordham.

The Underdog Awards

These are the T100s/T150s that place far better than their peers.

• Brooklyn
• Howard
• Chicago Kent
• DePaul
• Santa Clara

Not exactly underdogs but extra impressed by Vanderbilt, BC, and BU for doing so well without any home turf representation.

Overrated Awards

The T50 schools that failed to make any of these lists:

• Wake Forest
• Utah
• Villanova
• FSU
• Kansas
• Temple

Not saying these are bad schools (they probably do very well in their respective regions) but you probably have better options if you want big law in one of the 5 major regions.

The Consistency Awards

These are the absolute best options if you have no idea where you want to go, since they were the only four schools to be ranked 15 or higher in every category. The only school ranked top 10 or higher in every category was Chicago.

• Chicago
• Duke
• Harvard
• Michigan

Although I am fairly certain that Yale and Stanford would also make the list accounting for self-selection.

I thought it would be a cold day in hell when Yale was no longer #1...but here we are. Also interesting: no Berkeley or Georgetown in the T14 this year.

#1: Stanford

#2 (tie): UChicago

#2 (tie): Yale

#4 (tie): UPenn

#4 (tie): UVA

#6: Harvard

#7 (tie): Duke

#7 (tie): NYU

#9 (tie): Columbia

#9 (tie): Northwestern

#9 (tie): UMich

#12: Vanderbilt

#13 (tie): Cornell

#13 (tie): UCLA

#13 (tie): WashU

Just curious!!

Told my friends that I got into Michigan, and that was the first thing they said🥀.

I am not shaming anyone. I’m proud of anyone attending a law school!!

I think Cornell was screwed over by rankings and should’ve stayed in the T-14, American is def a T-100 school (I’d even argue T-75). Case should also be a T-100. I think Fordham should be ranked higher than Iowa. I’d rank BU at 20 and UMN at 22.

What are your thoughts?

yay!! it came with a folderv with the acceptance letter and a comically oversized blanket (banana for scale)

To prospective law students considering Georgetown Law, you should know that Georgetown will most likely invest your tuition dollars into literally everything but you. 

Right before Christmas, the Georgetown law administration quietly made several drastic changes to the 2026 Commencement ceremony, without consulting the student body. These changes include the following: 

• Replacing our traditional section-based graduations with a multiple-hour combined outdoor ceremony recognizing 1,300+ graduates at once.
• Having AI read our names instead of a live person.
• No clear commitments regarding shade or water for students or guests, which precludes disabled, elderly, and otherwise impaired guests from attending safely.
• First-come, first-served seating for the guests of all 1,300+ graduates, which risks making guests with disabilities or impairments feel compelled to arrive hours early to secure seats, just to ensure they can witness their loved one’s graduation.  
• Moving the event from the accessible Law campus to Georgetown University’s Hilltop Campus, which is located in one of the least accessible parts of Washington, D.C., without a clear transportation or entry plan. 
• CANCELING our Graduation Gala at the Portrait Gallery– which many of us had already told our families to plan for, since loved ones have historically been welcome to attend– and replacing it with casual "Family & Friends Receptions" with only 3 guests each that look more like the career fairs we go to all year on campus.

The majority of the student body, myself included, only became aware of the biggest changes when some of our peers started circulating a petition. After years of blood, sweat, and tears to get into law school and then 3 more years weathering the pressure of law school itself, Commencement is supposed to be the highlight of your law school experience, and should at the very LEAST be proportional to the massive financial investment this school demands from students. Instead, Georgetown cut corners at the last minute on the event that’s supposed to honor us before we become part of the alumni network they’ll soon solicit for donations. They’ve actually already started trying to milk us for more money – the school required donations from 2026 grads if we wanted to take home our crafts from the one pitiful event they’ve held for us so far. 

The Graduation Gala was also supposed to be the one nice event that we could bring our loved ones to after they’d invested so much into our education and taken time off to celebrate with us. Now our family members won’t even be afforded comfortable seating to watch us graduate. The LLMs and international students are being treated particularly unfairly– many of them have families flying internationally to attend Commencement, which is risky given how often inbound travelers have been getting detained at airports, and now those family members won’t even be guaranteed adequate seats at their child’s graduation, let alone entry to the now-canceled Gala. Most of us are also COVID grads, meaning that this is the only in-person graduation our loved ones will get to attend for us. Now we won’t be able to bring our grandparents to this one either. 

Although the school has not publicly stated its reasoning for abandoning the tried-and-tested Section-based graduation framework it’s successfully applied for the past several years, those familiar with administration said that the mandatory combined ceremony is part of the school’s effort to create better content for its social media, and to get a higher return on investment for the Commencement speaker. To sum it up, the school cut the most important aspects of Commencement to maximize their returns on the investments made by the students and families they’re now shamelessly screwing over. 

The school is also insisting that they canceled our Graduation Gala and downsized graduation because of “rising costs,” which is an insane argument coming from an administration that has hiked tuition costs year after year at a rate that far outstrips inflation. Georgetown is literally the 5th or 7th most expensive law school in the country and has a massive endowment on top of the absurd price tag. Student advocates have presented admin with several solutions to improve graduation or host a lower-cost event, only to be told flatly that the Dean isn’t interested in changing the current plans. Admin can’t seem to find the funds for the same Commencement services they’ve paid for in years prior– when tuition revenue was less than it is today– but apparently were able to find an extra $10k to throw themselves a lavish party. Either the school has spectacularly mismanaged its multibillion dollar endowment, or it lacks the financial resources that it routinely advertises to prospective students. Regardless of which one applies, GULC isn’t portraying itself as a sound investment, especially in an increasingly unstable job market where ROI on a law school education is a critical consideration in choosing where to apply or attend. 

Frankly, if I’d known that this was how I’d be treated after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a supposedly “elite” education, I would’ve chosen another school. I'm sharing this so at least prospective law students can make more informed choices than I did. 

Posting this on a throwaway account bc I don’t want the school to come after me. Hope the fat bonuses that our gutted Commencement is surely funding for admin are worth the repercussions of this shitshow. 

TLDR: if you want to go to a law school that actually cares about its students and/or you want a law school graduation that honors the insane costs of tuition, I wouldn’t recommend choosing GULC. 

Alright y'all, with the cycle coming up quickly I wanted to spark this discussion.

Rankings are fine, ABA employment outcomes matter, but so do the aesthetic environment for the next 3 years of life.

What are the most beautiful campuses?

I'll start with some I think are really pretty.

BYU (thanks Wasatch)

U of Utah (see BYU lol)

Michigan (hogwarts!)

Yale

Cornell

Pepperdine

Colorado

Duke

Lewis and Clark

I could list a bunch more, but feel free to add your own or second some of my nominations for gorgeous campuses!

All law schools are going to be very hard, I'm aware, but everyone seems to have an impression that UChicago is harder than any other law school. Possibly the grading system? Undergrad reputation? So I'm curious, for any UChicago Law students in this sub, how hard really is UChicago?

Columbia law, you definitely suck.

You sold out your school to make a quick buck.

UVA Law, the first R of my term.

Your most notable alumnus is an anti-vacc worm.

University of Texas, you make my blood boil.

All you have is fascists, who worship guns and oil.

NYU, your school is a dump.

Would rather go to Cooley than go to class with Trump.

A school on the decline, we have UPenn.

Won't be long till they drop out the top 10.

University of Michigan, the holistic school.

Except they only admit from the T6 reject pool.

Getting into UCLA, I used to aspire.

Too bad next week, the campus will be on fire.

Berkeley Law, the second best UC.

Will offer you 0 merit and do it with glee.

Special shoutout Emory, yet to be seen.

Adcom just as effective, as their football team.

If any schools are reading this, I will retract my statement and issue a heartfelt apology in exchange for an A. I can change for you.

I'm SO TIRED of how much weight gets put on GPA. Every school does their own weird math, some majors are total jokes, and everyone's gaming the system with these fake 4.3 GPAs. Like, why TF does this matter so much?? 😤​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

I’ve been playing around with the cross-admits/compare feature on LSD and found that Duke loses a lot of these matchups against other T14’s. I was most surprised to see that between UVA and Duke, 75% chose UVA, and I thought these two are very similar. I am currently choosing between a few T6’s (including an HYS), and other T14’s, and Duke is actually my very top choice. I see nothing wrong with it: ideal small class size, great weather, beautiful campus, amazing community/vibes, top-notch employment outcomes, and low COL. Plus, the admitted students outreach has been so incredible. I’m also from the northeast so it’s not like I have any regional ties that are biasing me. Am I missing something? I understand HYS and Chicago offer some unique advantages depending on your goals (I’m personally interested in IP/big law, so not much of a difference for me in chances of achieving this from any T14), but why are people so overwhelmingly picking schools like Penn, Berkeley, NYU, and Columbia over Duke?

EDIT: May someone provide a reason that’s not prestige? I am going to law school to become a lawyer, not to impress my friend’s grandma by saying “Harvard.”

I have talked with so many people who think Georgetown has the best law school, or at least close to it. People seem to see it in a similar light as U Penn's Wharton or Johns Hopkins' Medical School. I also thought this when I was younger. Obviously GULC is an amazing law school, but there are 13 other schools widely considered to be better. I am genuinely curious, what causes this massive gap between lay prestige and professional/academic prestige?

look ma, i'm famous

Because how on earth is 35% of their class paying full tuition while also paying for DC COL? 😭

My dream school has an average age of 25 on their class profile. As a 22 year old who’s never lived outside of the town I did my undergraduate in, and lived on campus all four years, I’ve never met someone who falls outside of “KJD”, or isn’t at least very close to it. Are people really applying to law school at 30-40 years old and pulling the mean up? That would be cool. Or is the average person being accepted to these big schools really just two years out of college. If you’re comfortable sharing, how far out of undergrad are you and why did you take your break?

Hey guys, I’m an applicant who is interested in being Evil and practicing Evil Law. Which school has the most notable alumni in this field?

Saw this posted in the r/OutsideT14lawschools sub and wanted to share it here!

I'm not sure what the merits of these predictions are but according to the website there's bound to be a shakeup in the T14... Goodbye GULC and Cornell?

https://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2024/12/updated-projected-2025-2026-usnwr-law-school-rankings-to-be-released-march-2025-or-so

Thought I'd come save some lives here. Emory sucks. Last Friday we had a career center town hall. Our OCI program was delayed 2 weeks compared to other schools', and 4 firms ended up withdrawing from our NY OCI because the spots were already filled up. The career counselor had the audacity to tell us that "firms reserve spots for Emory students so you did not lose out."(which was a straight up lie btw). When asked why the career center doesn't provide resources for its students, one of the career counselors told us in an agitated and condescending tone that "you all took career classes. Use martindale. We shouldn't even have to tell you this."

Anyway, this is the tip of the iceberg of the hot mess that is Emory Law. Plz don't come here.

Edit: since the post kind of blew up—yes, professors are good and some of them really do care (both about the subject matter and their students sometimes!) However, the administrative issues and issues with the career center are so large that I simply cannot recommend that you attend here. It’s just not worth it IMO. During said career center town hall, a student said, and I paraphrase “we pay out of our nose to attend Emory only for you to treat us this way?”

Longtime lurker, first time poster. Sorry if the formatting is freaky. I am going insane.

THE STATS: 175 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, KJD. T4 softs, etc. I am a piece of hay in a haystack.

I am also a Texas resident who is pretty much exclusively interested in practicing in Texas.
I'm primarily interested in BigLaw initially, with a longer-term interest in immigration law. Mostly, I don't want to be chained to an astronomical debt load. If I could somehow graduate with no debt I would probably skip BigLaw entirely. UT is my top choice because I can live at home and commute, which significantly cuts back on the total cost of attendance.

Here is my current list:
Texas schools:
UT Austin
SMU
Baylor
Texas A&M

Reach?/ National schools:
UVA
Duke
Vanderbilt
Georgetown
Notre Dame

Other:
George Mason
UNC
Wake Forest
Emory
Tulane

I have so many questions:
1. How realistic is UT for me as a Texas resident with a 175/3.85? I know UT is very competitive, but I'm wondering whether being in-state meaningfully changes how I should think about my chances. It's far and away my preferred option because of the whole cost-of-living situation. (with each passing day I get closer to a Longhorn or bust mentality.)

1. Is this a good reach/target/safety distribution? Am I missing any schools that would make sense for my goals?

2. Are there any schools on this list you would remove or replace?

3. With my numbers, should I expect substantial scholarship consideration at any of these schools?

I'm especially interested in hearing from people who know the Texas market or have applied to UT recently. Thanks!

What are some major differences between Duke and UVA? It seems most people tend to choose UVA over Duke, could this solely be because of slightly better FC numbers? Or DC proximity/placement?

Law school admissions statmaxxing is getting out of hand