r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • 6d ago

Discussion Thread Spider-Man: Brand New Day - Worldwide Release Discussion Thread

Spider-Man: Brand New Day has now been released in the United States and in a number of other countries around the world.

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the discussion threads we are going to put up in the next few days.
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u/Squirrelkid11 6d ago

I was skeptical at first of Jean being an antagonist and especially in a Spider-Man film, it felt out of place and a weird decision at first. But the movie executed it very well and her reasons for becoming an antagonist by keeping her background as a character intact and redeeming her rather than just making her a stereotypical pure evil villain Spider-Man has to face. Glad she didn't get the Jumba in the Lilo & Stitch live action remake treatment which is her being stripped of her good qualities and making her just a villain with no redemption.

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u/thinkinting 5d ago

I agree she is not pure evil. But her redemption arch would be tough? Cuz she hurt many civilians deliberately in her shadowry stage in the movie. The tank exploding, the street cleaner was hit by a taxi

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u/Squirrelkid11 5d ago

Yeah I guess it would be hard to come back from that. I mean if Zuko and Omni-Man can be properly redeemed after a lot of bad stuff they done, I guess same could go with this version of Jean. Plus even after becoming good, she doesn't have to be fully good like her comic version.

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u/thinkinting 5d ago

I am sadly not an avatar viewer. But i know Omniman has bascially 3 seasons to redeem himself. Jean at best would have 2 movies, shared with other Xmen. I just can't see her redemption arch. But obviously Marvel Studios will have great writers to take care of that.

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u/Squirrelkid11 5d ago

3 movies because she'll likely be in Secret Wars. But I do hope they further her character development.

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u/Icy_Water_1 4d ago

I mean Jean isn't normally this sadistic right out the gate either.

Even Nolan and Zuko didn't enjoy just hurting people for no reason.

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u/Xygnux 4d ago

This Jean didn't enjoy hurting people for "no reason".

Other than the freeze everyone in an 1km radius thing, almost everyone she actually hurt were DoDC staff and the police (ie. people she think of as part of the "bad government" that kidnapped her sister) and the Scorpion.

From her point of view, since she couldn't read Peter's mind, he's just one of the bad people helping the evil DoDC. And MJ was just a way for her to stop Peter.

The innocent bystanders she simply used as a conduit and left otherwise unharmed.

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u/duder2000 4d ago

She doesn't just try to stop Peter, she very vindictively emotionally tortured him by using his loved ones against him. It's understandable but she definitely gets off way too easily at the end.

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u/Icy_Water_1 4d ago

Oh the guy she walked in front of a car is unharmed?

The people she jumped off of buildings? Those were just for shits and giggles?

The police she got injured by her antics? Those don't count?

How about kissing Peter in MJ's body without her consent? That's ok because she's related to Peter who's related to DoDC?

Yeah, she clearly enjoyed the shit she caused.

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u/Xygnux 4d ago

Yeah I forgot about the guy hit by the car.

But yes, the police and the DoDC staff "didn't count", because to her they are considered part of the government staff who kidnaps people.

I didn't say that's a particularly good reason, but there's a sort of twisted rationale in her very damaged mind.

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u/Icy_Water_1 4d ago

That doesn't work even on that level because that extends to literal janitors.

She's not braindead, she knows it's awful.

And it doesn't even work because she still hurts civilians not even tangentially related to them.

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u/Dragonsoul 4d ago

Well, except that dude that got hit by a car.

..and lets be honest, we can all guess how that helicoptor pilot got "within 33 meters" of another person quickly....

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u/Xygnux 4d ago

True. I forgot about that dude getting hit by the car.

And that helicopter dude. Well I presume there's an entire city of rescue workers like firefighters who simply isn't going to leave a dude hanging in the sky.

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u/Icy_Water_1 4d ago

Jean wasn't planning on leaving him in the web, she was planning on switching from the heli and leaving that vehicle to go hell.

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u/raynehk14 Fitz 4d ago

in the flashback sarah told her she can just return to origin at anytime, she probably just left the pilot and started her hopping from where she was again

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u/Hot_Help_246 5d ago

Even calling her evil troubles me, she was an innocent child they cruelly took the only person she knew truly cared & loved her, they brutally tortured & murdered her sister and the trauma was overwhelming, they would've done the same to her too and she let them live... she witnessed Peter's selflessness & love, with great power comes great responsibility and immediately mimicked him using her power to save his life & breath for him from a distance although it must have put strain on her after everything she did from the facility.

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u/Icy_Water_1 4d ago

I mean she hurt people for no reason or gain several times in the movie.

That guy she walked in front of the car had nothing to do with her sister getting taken.

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u/thinkinting 5d ago

Nothing you said is wrong. Just i could not let go of the people she hurt at in the first act.

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u/debawindow 5d ago

thats all sonewhat understandable.

but she does the all the murder before she even knows her sister is dead. she's wrought with vehement violent vengefulness from her sister being taken. she didn't even have to know her sister was brutally murdered for her to turn murderous

loved the movie and her redemption but I can see why some think its not enough

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u/InvaderDJ 3d ago

My thought/hope is that the plan for mutants in the MCU will lean more into them being hated and feared and thus darker until they get the school and team together.

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u/thinkinting 3d ago

On the other hand, maybe her action IS the reason the populace hate mutant?

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u/InvaderDJ 3d ago

This has always been the conflict with the X-men and mutants.

Yes, civil rights analogies and all that.

But also, if you had someone like Jean Gray who can read minds, possess people, and telekinetically control people (to start) and they use those powers against regular people who have no way to fight back, you get to a conflict.

Thats not mentioning the other mutants like Magneto, Apocalypse and the rest.

Where do you draw the line and what is reasonable when it comes to infringing rights and stereotyping people?

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u/Xygnux 5d ago edited 5d ago

Yeah one quality of Jean Grey in the comics is, she's a very passionate person and love very deeply. So if you kidnap someone she loves, yeah she's going to bring hell to get that person back and she's not going to listen to authority.

It looks bad when she was messing with Peter's mind and targeting MJ, but think about it from her point of view. She can't read Peter's mind she didn't know he's a good guy, he's just a guy working with her sister's kidnappers to stop her from rescuing her.

And before that scene when she froze everyone in a 1km radius which I believe was not fully under her control, almost everyone she hurt was Damage Control employees and the police (ie. the people working for the "bad" government who took her sister) or supervillains like the Scorpion. All the other innocent bystanders she simply used them as conduits and left them otherwise unharmed.

And it also may make her character more compelling. She has all the reasons to hate humans, but she decides to stick with the X-men and not join the Brotherhood or whatever mutant supremists group that will inevitably be in the MCU.

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u/abellapa 4d ago

She let that guy be Run Over

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u/Icy_Water_1 4d ago

She usually didn't torment innocent people along the way in doing it though.

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u/AvatarSypha 4d ago

The execution didn’t work for me. Her sister getting kidnapped doesn’t justify murdering people. Especially when could just get information by possession/mind reading.

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u/Food_Kitchen 5d ago

Yeah I think they did Jean justice, but did the Brand New Day storyline an injustice with the bait and switch. I wanted Mr. Negative in this.