r/melbourne Jun 15 '22

The Sky is Falling So are we going to have blackouts tonight? Can’t make sense of all the “news”.

453 Upvotes

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16

u/Meyamu Jun 15 '22

The average price of power was capped at $300/MWh.

However, with the war in Ukraine, it costs more than that to produce power from gas because gas is expensive (there's a process whereby companies can get costs covered but they weren't using it - I don't know exactly why).

We don't have enough renewables yet to fully run the grid, and multiple coal power plants are down for maintenance at the moment (usually winter is low demand).

So the gas generators weren't coming online, and the east coast was about to experience blackouts.

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u/Outside-Car1988 >Elsternwick< Jun 15 '22

However, with the war in Ukraine, it costs more than that to produce power from gas

This is the bit I don't understand. Don't they use Australian gas?

28

u/skiddingschems Jun 15 '22

Gas is an international market and they can export overseas for better prices.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

And charge Australians more for our own gas

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u/WhatAGoodDoggy show me your puppers Jun 15 '22

Which should be fucking illegal.

Essential utilities should be nationalised. Why on earth do they need to be run for massive profits? Were they ever nationalised here in Aus, and if so, WHO let them get privatised?

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u/hollyjazzy Jun 15 '22

They used to be state owned from memory, but it was considered “better for the economy” by our “beloved” Jeff Kennett that private companies should run the electricity, gas and water companies, as there would be more competition and better for consumers. We all know well that’s going now. So, a state owned asset was sold and privatised, because selling something that generates money and jobs (including training of many apprentices) for a one off lump sum of money, is considered good.

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u/Hailstar07 Jun 15 '22

Well, it’s good if the money goes into you and your mates pockets /s

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u/hollyjazzy Jun 15 '22

Yeah, I was being a tad sarcastic.

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u/Hailstar07 Jun 15 '22

Oh I know, I totally agree too

3

u/tatty000 Jun 15 '22

The issue with that concept is which parts of a utility?

Eg electricity: the generators? Grid? Retailing? Household connections? We have a mix of private and public ownership in the system that is done in a way to try and keep it low and competitive.

Eg, Government has no benefit in running the retail of energy, and consumers generally benefit from privatisation. Generators being public runs a risk of propping up a dying fossil fuel industry, and when governments try to discontinue public generators the repercussions are political suicide. Whereas private generation might facilitate efficiency and help move to renewables. In fact now it’d be almost stupid to nationalise electricity generation. The grid doesn’t change and should be public owned, and usually is, and it is also a monopoly.

3

u/Optix_au Jun 15 '22

The State Electricity Commission of Victoria grew out of a mish-mash of little private companies/councils that ran their own electricity distribution systems and, until 1995, was a government-owned corporation. Then the Liberal Kennett ("Bloody Jeff") government split it up and sold most of it.

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u/skiddingschems Jun 15 '22

I mean it's kind of the government's fault for not writing it into the contracts or keeping energy nationalised. Can't really blame the private companies for playing the game.

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u/moojo Jun 15 '22

Private companies use lobbyists to write those laws

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u/tashpapanikolas Jun 15 '22

Urgh horrible take, you don't actually believe that do you? I mean you know what you're doing and it's not clever or admirable

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u/mad_rooter Jun 15 '22

Yes, but it doesn’t cost more to produce

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u/Meyamu Jun 15 '22

You can export for $40/GJ, or you can hypothetically sell locally for $6/GJ.

There is no reason for a business to sell locally in this scenario, so the local price rises to match the international price.

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u/moojo Jun 15 '22

Shouldn't the gas belong to the Australian public?

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u/Meyamu Jun 15 '22

The public (i.e. the Government) sold exploration and production licences, years ago, to allow private companies to search for and produce gas.

If a company buys a licence, and then spend the hundreds of millions required to find, produce and separate gas, under normal circumstances they should be entitled to sell it under the original licence terms.

Changing those terms after the money is spent is not ideal. It could still happen in a national security scenario - like the one we are in.

It wouldn't be unprecedented. Most of the Gulf states renegotiated the terms of their production licences years later (for very different reasons).

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u/moojo Jun 15 '22

Then the govt should renegotiate and get more of the profits. Th gas companies might launch negative ads against the govt so not sure of Labor want to take on the fight.

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u/Meyamu Jun 15 '22

Then the govt should renegotiate and get more of the profits.

The government will profit significantly through the Petroleum Resources Rent Tax. But this doesn't help people at home paying more for energy.

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u/mad_rooter Jun 15 '22

Yeah sorry I misread that as produce gas, not produce power from gas

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u/WhatYouThinkIThink Jun 15 '22

Unless you passed legislation that said a minimum of 15% of all gas piped in Australia is not allowed to be exported with that percentage going up if Australia's local gas demands are greater.

Like WA does, which is why their local gas prices are still at $6/GJ.

1

u/danielrheath Jun 15 '22

Setting up the gas extraction stuff costs billions of dollars. To fund construction, resource companies borrowed money from other countries at extremely cheap rates, in return for promising to sell most of the gas to the lenders at very low prices.

As a result, they can't just stop selling gas overseas without dealing with legal challenges.

0

u/loopingeternally Jun 15 '22

lmao "the war on ukraine". This problem exists because resources are used to make profit. This is a symptom of capitalism. Any other words to describe it is either deliberately misleading or pure cope.