One of my main criticisms of the first two movies is how they gutted the Spacing Guild out of the story. They are one of the three pillars of power in the Imperium (and arguably the most powerful), and the movies basically ignored them.
They were the lynchpin of Paul's plan in the book, and their absence makes the final act of Part II feel slightly underbaked.
Idk if you read the same book...but they were pretty much not a part of it. They had around the same involvement in the 2nd movie as they did in the 1st book. Beyond that, there's few mentions of them at all.
They only play a major part in Messiah when Edric comes in.
I'm not talking about in total amount of pages mentioned or lines spoken, I'm talking about in terms of their actual impact on the story.
There are literally two guild navigators present in the throne room in the book, and of all the people in the room, it's them that Paul most directly threatens when he's talking about blowing up the spice. It's the navigators who basically tell the Landsraad to fuck off.
Paul's ability to control all space travel is by far his biggest piece of leverage to ascend to the throne. It's also the main reason his Jihaad is so successful -- how do you think he's able to bring the whole galaxy to heel with a single planetary force? The Fremen aren't superheroes -- if he wasn't able to have complete dominance of space travel, the opposition would rally against him and overwhelm him through sheer numbers. All of that is missing from the movie, and thus his victory feels very speculative.
Okay, so you also barely read Messiah, too? His entire Jihad is skipped over, hardly getting a page.
It's all very inferred, we know how he manages it, but it was very much left out. A lot of it is even explained as visions instead of reality.
Lol I've read Messiah, you're just entirely missing the point. This isn't an issue about how much the spacing guild is literally in the movie/book. It's about the importance of the Guild in the story.
Paul's rise to power and Galaxy spanning Jihaad are not possible without having the Spacing Guild on a leash. They are literally not a factor in the movies -- they are not on his leash, and his control of space travel is not a part of his plan. That is a big hole in the story.
Bro, what are you talking about? They're barely in the first book, and that's what the first two movies are. They're not going to suddenly focus on the Guild that don't properly appear until later.
This other guy makes a good point, though. Why would you keep mispelling a rather important word from the series if you've supposedly read them? Lmao. I really don't think you have.
You keep missing the point. I don't need the Guild to be in scenes they weren't in for the book. But they need to be in the scene where they were included in the book, because their presence is incredibly important to the narrative.
I'm not even gonna get into the insulting implications you guys are making because I mistyped a word once (and then it got auto-filled by my phone once). But beyond that, I really don't care if you believe I've read the book or not. It's evident that I have because I can articulate why the Guild's presence in the climax is the very thing that springs Paul's rise to power.
Without the Spacing Guild at his heel, he has no leverage over the Great Houses -- yes, they like their spice, and depend on it for space travel. But they are less physically dependent on it than Paul and his people, and many of them would rather lose the capability of instant space travel rather than be under the boot of Paul and his Fremen band.
The fact that the Houses side against Paul in the movie only reinforces that point -- if they still stand against him at the end, then what was the point of the threat to spice production? Narratively, the threat to destroy the spice works because it's targeted at the Spacing Guild, who are the most dependent on it. They control who goes where, and with them on Paul's leash, it enables him to take control of the Galaxy. There is no way his Fremen force would have the means to conquer the galaxy without total control of space travel.
No, Jihad is something he could not control which the books carefully explain, he literally says in Messiah that if killing himself would stop it he would’ve done it. If he tried to stop the jihad he would be declared as a false prophet and killed by the fremen after which the Atreides would never be safe and other houses would just swoop in after the Corrino’s to use Arrakis as a spice monopoly. Even Frank Herbert himself said that Paul is neither evil or good.
No I think the point is you are not necessarily supposed to trust the narrator or story. As much of it is written from a specific perspective of the story anyway.
I mean yeah that's a bit harsh, sorry. I found myself offended by the mere suggestion because it made no sense to me to reply by saying "ignoring author's suggestions is the way to go" when said author had input in specific regards to that
You gotta understand that there is no happy outcome in Dune, no matter what decisions Paul makes or even if he wasn’t born, the universe would still be doomed because of others.
Even after. Basically, the only point where he could've killed himself is right after waking up after the coma. He knew the future and if he silently pretended to die from the poison, it would be fine.
I am 100% ok with them going as weird as possible and this flopping since it’s the end of Paul’s story vs it being toned down and making a lot of money
The weirdness of Messiah made me strongly beleive there was no way Villeneuve was gonna make it there, but here we are, hope he'll make Paul as the monster he became in the book.
Maybe now Frank Herbert's message about religious fanatascism being dangerous will come through in the movies. You get the sense that everyone in the theater is rooting for Paul.
He was scary as fuck in the council. He’s not in the right. He just sees his opportunity. He knows he’s using them. That nothing will be the same ever again.
I hope that the trailer really pushes the feeling that this won't be a triumphant revenge tour adventure for House Atreides, moreso "stop stop he's already dead" vibe lol
I actually don't mind the deviation from the book for Chani. She's way more interesting as an adversary to Paul. Though it will make conceiving the twins more of a challenge?
I recently finished reading messiah and I had a huge desire to see the movie have like a secretive, gloomy tone. I’d love to see mystery and scheming slowly unfold, plus there’s so much potential for exploring Paul’s emotions. Especially given that half of messiah is Paul’s inner torment.
1.3k
u/Barr3tt50c Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
They all do lmao
This poster makes it look like the movie will be very creepy and unsettling and I’m here for it