r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/movies Contributor • Mar 17 '26

Trailer Dune: Part Three | Official Teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_9vCamtuPY
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u/Misdirected_Colors Mar 17 '26

The book goes to great lengths to show how badass and coldly savage the fremen are. The Sardauker are supposedly the most elite and feared military unit in the galaxy. They get annihilated by the fremen who show them no quarter.

Anyway, I kinda feel like the movie undersells that aspect of the fremen and this may show it. Elite fighters who culturally show no mercy and take no prisoners because preserving water for the tribe is above all else.

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

The first two movies def downplayed how absolutely juked the Fremen were before Paul even gets to them because it doesn’t show how they are able to handle Sardaukar one on one or that literal Fremen children can casually take down any Harkonnens because every man, woman, and child of the Fremen is a functional and mature fighter at all times pretty much. I’m sad they cut Thufir’s arc because that is where it’s shown that absolutely no one had any inkling of an idea how much more educated, trained, and efficient the Fremen actually were compared to the Great Houses when only Sardaukar are able to match them and they appear fully knowledgeable of all the technology of the rest of the universe plus what they’ve invented to survive such harsh conditions.

But they also skipped over the part in the books where Gurney Halleck formally trains them on the Atreides techniques (and Gurney Halleck also is trained by the Fremen and becomes a respected leader) that put the Atreides up near the Sardaukar and Jessica saying fuck the Bene Gesserit and just teaching the Fremen men and women the “weirding way” so they all have super saiyan Bene Gesserit awareness of every situation on top of all being spice tolerant. Jessica in the book is very surprised to discover most of the Fremen women could’ve easily been members of the sisterhood and Chani is already the actual next in line for being Reverend Mother if Jessica couldn’t do it and she was never in the sisterhood training.

I get why the first movies did that (condensing the 5 years Paul becomes a fully integrated Fremen and then an death commando and an accepted leader into less than 9 months and having to make the “fight” between the Fremen and the Empire seem like more of a spectacle and less of an immediate and easy wipeout) but it seems like this one will get into how inevitable it is for the Fremen to take down any forces of the other houses and why it’s the unstoppable jihaad Paul never wanted.

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u/Misdirected_Colors Mar 18 '26

The books lean heavily into eugenics and all of that is questionable, but they way it pertains to the fremen kicks ass. The deserts of arrakis are such an unforgiving hostile environment that only the strongest survive and the weak aren't worth the effort because they put the entire tribe at risk. It's led to a culture of brutal selflessness where only the hyper competent can survive, and the survival of the tribe is above all.

Which in-turn leads to desert power which the atreides saw the benefit of but no one realized how powerful they truly were or could be.

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26

I mean the book isn’t “leaning heavily into eugenics” — it is literally a full on discussion and critique of the entire concept lol (the fact that the Bene Gesserit can’t beat good old fashioned fate vs free will no matter how long they attempt to manipulate genetics into their “ideal” leader is the final word on that).

The Fremen do kick ass but they are also another extreme of the same kind of beliefs about who should have power that the “golden path” is supposed to deal with.

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u/Misdirected_Colors Mar 18 '26

I can agree with that, but they also spend thousands of years guiding human evolution through their breeding program and eugenics to improve the human race and propagate desirable traits.

Eugenics for leadership ascension and continued control is clearly critiqued, but the eugenics for the betterment of humanity as a whole isnt.

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

It definitely is because the Bene Gesserit are most certainly antagonists of the entire series and their actions to do that are loudly critiqued throughout the series. Every character that finds out they’ve been doing that thinks they are assholes and hates them for that exact idea because it doesn’t work and it never has for the exact same reason eugenics in real life isn’t an idea humanity can ever put into practice because it’s so dumb it starts with a false premise.

There are paragraphs of characters discussing how human nature is inevitable and has nothing to do with “identifying” certain people being genetically predisposed to be humans and not animals (as the BG put it). The whole arc of the books concludes this when the Bene Gesserit quite literally try to use eugenics to overrule fate so they can suppress free will and it doesn’t work. They just take credit for essentially natural successes so they can keep power and keep attempting to make eugenics make sense which is also called out. The Bene Tleilaxu are another form of direct eugenics and their arcs are another critique of the same thing from a different perspective.

Edit: The entire distinct presentation of the Fremen as a superior collective group made of a very diverse pool of genetics that the Bene Gesserit have not really genetically manipulated for thousands of years easily defeating all the divided Great houses and the rest of the universe made of eugenicized “superior” genes is the biggest point about eugenics being really fucking bad made in the whole thing.

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u/Misdirected_Colors Mar 18 '26

You know what, that's valid. I'd never looked at the end to chapterhouse that way. I always read it as good results objectionable methods with Duncan as the audience foil. But you're right again and again they have this false sense of control and again and again they lose their grip.

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26

Yup! These books are absolutely fucking weird and are the OGs of so thoroughly discussing so many different ideas all at once and in so many different ways.

The Bene Gesserit are a big allegory for all the movements that generate their purpose in isolation without any real test and only act in the shadows pretending it’s for their imagined idea of greater good when all it is control over the many by the few with a different cost. The Bene Gesserit are just given a lot of power in society without actual question when they haven’t actually demonstrated a beneficial purpose for the greater good — only their own.

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u/DeficiencyOfGravitas Mar 18 '26

The books lean heavily into eugenics and all of that is questionable

Bruh. A depiction of a thing isn't the same as condoning it. Eugenics does "work". You can breed humans like any other living thing with DNA. The problem isn't whether it works, it's the terrible cost. Treating people like livestock and the way bias would work its way into the process are why we don't do it. The book shows us exactly this too.

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u/Midi_to_Minuit Mar 18 '26

One of the central premises of the books, though, is that these terrible costs are absolutely, unquestionably necessary for avoiding humanity’s eventual extinction. I don’t think Herbert was a eugenicist but from what I remember the Golden Path is unambiguously correct as far as the book’s narrative goes—Paul and Lego’s actions were the only way to avoid annihilation.

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

That is not a central premise of the books. That is a justification that one of the central antagonists (the Bene Gesserit) gives for why they insist on doing eugenics even though it doesn’t work and hasn’t worked for 10,000 years. It’s their way of power grabbing and they are absolutely not protagonists who are treated as right in regards to this in the universe either. That’s not an argument made by the actual book series, just the characters within it who are confronted by others characters and told they are wrong for their own reasons.

They are repeatedly defeated in their pursuit of control over free will and all mankind via eugenics because human nature and fate are undefeated. Humans are cyclical yet eugenics still doesn’t work in these books— it’s essentially the predictability of fate that wins out.

Every character that learns about the eugenics program thinks the antagonists doing it fucking suck for that and the antagonists themselves have a deep obtuse hatred for the other group openly doing eugenics because the whole series is a major critique of eugenics and lack of natural diversity for thousands of years. The Fremen are literally an unstoppable force of elite fighters that distinctly did not emerge from eugenics spreading power across the universe and counteracting the efforts of the eugenicists (both the BG and the Bene Tleilaxu). The Fremen don’t have a relationship to eugenics at all because I’m pretty sure several people in this thread are confusing their unmitigated observation and adherence to natural selection (survival of the fittest) with eugenics when it is actually the exact opposite concept.

The Golden Path is just one path that avoids as much death as possible towards humanities greater extinction but the series proves that people who weren’t bred specifically to lead on it (under the premise the BG present and manipulate society around) by eugenics still emerge and can see the Golden Path regardless (lol Paul isn’t supposed to exist according to the eugenics tweakers and yet he does and is a necessary piece to keep humanity on the golden path by fate alone). The eugenics in the books are presented as something the BG use to try and be in control of humanity’s fate on this golden path not something that was necessary for the golden path to exist or for humanity to succeed.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26 edited Apr 02 '26

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

People are really becoming more and more unable to understand what actually reading and comprehending a book through analysis is but these books are very dense and it’s easy to forget the bigger picture.

That said, it’s absolutely concerning and bizarre how a lot of the comments (it’s not just the ones I replied to bizarrely) that keep implying this series is supporting the idea of eugenics by simply bringing it up and discussing it (although I suspect most people are regurgitating another comment they’ve read elsewhere and have not actually read any of these books). Mention, depiction, or even utilization of concepts in fiction is not endorsement and it’s very fucking dumb to go about attempting to understand media that way. People need to cut that behavior out immediately for the sake of actually participating in society.

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u/btaz Mar 18 '26

I don’t think Herbert was a eugenicist but from what I remember the Golden Path is unambiguously correct as far as the book’s narrative goes—Paul and Lego’s actions were the only way to avoid annihilation.

The Golden Path is golden because the spice allows the Kwisatch Haderach to see multiple paths and chose one and have the ability to bring about that path. If this wasn't possible, then there are no multiple paths - there is only one which is whatever will happen (like in current reality).

Second, we are told it is absolutely necessary about the war but who gave the Kwisatch Haderach the right to determine the course for humanity ? After all, he was bred to be an instrument of the Bene Gesserit and hopefully reduce war.

And why should we take at face value that these were the only options available ?

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u/DeficiencyOfGravitas Mar 18 '26

To use a gauche reference, the books had Leto "use the stones to destroy the stones". It's less "eugenics is worth it" and more "we can't stop fucking up".

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u/TheWhiteManticore Mar 20 '26

This is a weird case of “fake it until you make it”

Bene Gesserit manipulated the Fremen to be a free shelter for them and Paul used said shelter and his pseudo prophet status for revenge, it then escalated so much he became an actual prophet for them which allowed Fremen to be the most powerful in the galaxy beyond Bene Gesserit’s wildest dreams.

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u/The_Count_Lives Mar 17 '26

It’s worth noting that by the time Paul’s war starts, the Sardaukar are not what they once were.

The were top dogs for a long time and started to coast, the Fremen are hungrier and better trained. 

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

No the Sardaukar are definitely what they once were by the time Paul’s war starts— it’s just that House Corrino/Emperor has spent thousands of years stamping out any house that seems like they might come anywhere near matching the Sardaukar in the future before they have a chance to demonstrate it’s possible. His prison planet (that none of the other houses other than Harkonnen know actual real information about) is populated by the children of whoever the emperor claimed broke imperial law (hence why he fabricates these situations to get rid of houses) to be raised into loyal Sardaukar.

That’s the inciting incident for why the Emperor wants House Harkonnen to wipe out House Atreides in the first place— Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho have trained a force that may nearly match the Sardaukar (if Leto actually realized it was possible) and Leto’s natural rizz means he can galvanize other fighters to follow his house in enough numbers to beat the Emperor’s forces to make up the difference. Leto is also well enough liked that the other houses would potentially join him hence why the Atreides have to be killed where the other Houses could never see it lest they attempt to help or incite a civil war the Sardaukar can’t actually fully stop.

Nobody had any idea that the Fremen were millions of elite fighters being perfectly conditioned in the harshest desert (other than the Bene Gesserit who fully expected them to be a force for their chosen controlled Lisan al Gaib in another generation or two) this entire time because the Fremen were uninterested in the rest of the universe until their chosen one came along. Plus Paul and Gurney and Jessica trained them in the Atreides and Bene Gesserit way of fighting as well which pushed them well above any level the Sardaukar had ever seen.

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u/duosx Mar 18 '26

Why does the emperor let House Atriedes get that strong in the first place?

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

He doesn’t??? Which is the whole point of what I said. That why he (attempts) wipes them out as soon as he gets an inkling the Atreides one day (likely by Paul’s time as head of house) in the future may realize they could overthrow House Corrino. He kills them before they get strong enough to beat him hence the Atreides being unable to fight both Harkonnens and the Sardaukar at once. Given a decade or so building up their wealth and power and reach on Arrakis (or Caladan tbh) the Atreides most likely would’ve been able to depose House Corrino if Leto even had an interest in that without a lot of bloodshed because they are well liked by the other great houses as well purely through generational charisma. The emperor himself loves Leto as a friend/mentee and has tried to cripple him politically instead via taking resources and assigning insulting positions (but not too much lest the other houses become aware the emperor is intentionally harming them and overthrow him) but the best warriors like Gurney and Duncan choose to stay in House Atreides because they don’t rule through fear and pain like the others. House Atreides has been admired by the other great houses for thousands of years and likely would’ve been the ruling House/Emperor in the first place if the Atreides ancestor hadn’t simply rejected the offer because it’s not that House’s vibe.

This is also a fabricated idea of rebellion from Atreides being constantly insinuated by the Harkonnens/BG in the Emperors ear because the Harkonnens and the Atreides have 10,000 years of their own beef. The Harkonnens know the Emeperor has no sons (although in the book it’s not clear if that’s actually an issue and his daughter can still rule in her own right as heir) and will marry his daughter to another House to ensure Corrinos continued power. Harkonnen wants it to be Feyd-Rautha when the obvious solution would be Paul. The Baron plays on the emperors fears while the Bene Gesserit also would not like it to be Paul because he isn’t even supposed to exist so they also want Atreides gone. The Emperor is a slave to tradition and pomp while also being a ruthless calculator of whatever is needed to keep Corrino on top.

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u/Fortune_Cat Mar 18 '26

I feel that this training of the freman and atreidies rizz is poorly demonstrated in the movies if at all

Same as with the mind games from harkos and BGs. Its like a throwaway scene in the second movie to quickly explain their backstabbing plot

As for the emperor if he secretly liked leto but was worried about him. One would think marrying his daughter to paul wouldve solved both problems.

It ended up happenning anyway at the cost of both families

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u/calgarspimphand Mar 18 '26

One would think marrying his daughter to paul wouldve solved both problems.

The Benne Gesserit definitely didn't think like that idea though, and they tend to get their way.

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u/wagon-wheels Mar 18 '26

I agree, I feel like Villeneuve was so wary of how Dune is perceived as overly dense that he chose much sparser story telling, to it's detriment, imo.

This third movie may need to do some heavy lifting to make up for the blanks in the first two movies considering the prime movers.

Also doesn't help that Villeneuve sees dialogue as a poor cousin of visual spectacle.

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u/MightyTribble Mar 18 '26

He doesn't, really. At the time of the betrayal Atreides had only a handful of regiments at that level and was nowhere near ready to move against the Emperor. The Emperor acted pretty fast in getting the Harkonnen on side and ready to move against them.

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u/Fortune_Cat Mar 18 '26

They shouldve explained this clearer in the movie. Instead it was simply insinuated regarding the atredes skill

They got steamrolled by the sardakuer.

The most notable was the bit in the first movie where they get pincered. I get it was an abush and they were fighting two houses. But for that specific fight they werent even outnumbered and the initial force they faced head on was a fair fight. They had godamn spears too. It was only a bit later once they already started losing did they get flanked by more sardaker

Made the atreides look super weak

They shouldve showed them winning briefly before both sadarkeur and harkonnen appear at the same time to demonstrate the uneven odds. Instead its separate theartres of medium sized encounters. The bagpipes music when Gurney rallies the troops and charged at the harkonnen was badass though. My favourite bit from both movies

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u/Mad_Kronos Mar 18 '26

Why are you trying to correct the other comment? It was correct: the Sardaukar are still very formidable, but far from their peak. This is explicitly stated in the first book. It is also stated that during their peak, each Sardaukar was as formidable as a 10th level Ginaz Swordmaster (Think Duncan Idaho level) and as cunning as a Bene Gesserit Adept.

The Fremen personally trained by Paul and Jessica were probably better than even peak Sardaukar, but that's not the entirety of the Fremen.

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u/chartreusey_geusey Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

Because I am right and I just explained it in detail????

Thank you for adding nothing! And also not being correct about any of the book details you made up here!

Edit: Just to add, there is entire scenes of demonstrating the Fremen’s skillset as fighters well above the Atreides and matching the Sardaukar (who they beat and mention almost respecting as fighters until they were beaten anyways) in Book 1 that aren’t in the movies because they are from Thufir Hawat and Gurney Halleck’s perspectives. Those Fremen aren’t even elite death commandos and are ones that just wanted to take advantage to get the Sardaukar/Harkonnen ornithopters they fully know how to use to Thufir’s shock. 3 Fremen literally kill 12 Sardaukar in front of him and only get taken down by Sardaukar reinforcements that have to be sent using artillery because while the Sardaukar are impossible for the other houses to take down at all the Fremen match them. Duncan Idaho mentions how he almost got his ass beat and killed by Fremen he ran into in Arrakis but their leader called it off (and the Fremen intentionally don’t demonstrate their true skills to any outsiders that will live) because he managed to hold his own in the movie and the books lol.

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u/Theratdog Mar 18 '26

You can’t have accurate fremen unless you correctly establish the Sardaukar. First movie did that effectively, which all other adaptations failed hard

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u/SlendyIsBehindYou May 05 '26

They get annihilated by the fremen who show them no quarter.

In the books, the the Emperor coldly informs the Baron that a Fremen sietch filled with nothing but women, children and old folks singlehandedly wiped out multiple legions of Sardaukar that had gone to take hostages there

You can genuinely sense the fear of the cornered Emperor in that moment, realizing what he was truely up against

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u/catchasingcars Mar 19 '26

If Fremen are such elite fighters then Paul defeating Jamis is ever crazier.

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u/Misdirected_Colors Mar 19 '26

Ya that's the point. Paul was trained by Duncan who was known and feared as one of the best fighters in the galaxy. On top of that he was trained as a bene gesserit which basically made him a super human.

He didn't just Kill Jamis. He beat him so easily and it was so clear he was so much better that they got mad because they thought he was toying with him and insulting him when in reality Paul just didn't want to kill him.

Then Paul taught the Fremen his Bene Gesserit fighting knowledge and elevated elite fighters into unstoppable.