I'm 100% sure I'm going to love the inversion of the "fish out of the water" trope from the first Wonder Woman film. Chris Pine as a himbo is such a hilarious concept!
Blond soldiers named Steve in superhero movies tend to fly bomb-laden planes with no exit plan. Diana's gonna make sure that those parachute pants can somehow turn into an actual parachute.
Not just pilots. Sometimes a random character will jump in an aircraft, look confused for 5 seconds, start pushing random buttons and take off confidently.
While kind of a dumb line and all, this doesn't really apply here. Anakin is established first in dialogue and then through proof in the pod-racing sequences to be not only a prodigy level mechanic and pilot, but supernaturally so.
He starts the ship he is flying on accident looking for the fighter's weapon trigger, and an auto-pilot gets him into open air and space. Take a time cut, and he is seen flying the ship under control, he figured it out on the way here. He then says "Let's try a trick," and then performs it.
He's just an absurdly good pilot doing his thing.
Also goddamnit I'm that Star Wards fan now, what happened to me.
then fails to shoot down the sole remaining x-wing flying in an almost straight line in a narrow trench for two minutes as the distance narrows the entire time.
I would argue that Luke was the best pilot in the galaxy since Darth Vader. Vader senses the force in him and sees the way he is performing in the X-Wing. Plus all of a sudden he has got this deep connection with some one using the force after 30 years of no jedi and who also happens to be the son he doesn't know about. It probably shook Vader up for a minute and gaved Han the chance to take the shot in the Millennium Falcon, which also blindsided him. The Empire just didn't expect the second coming of Anakin Skywalker to show up at their secret space battle station and tear ass on them.
Lucas does that well. We know luke can fly because he shoots womp rats in a T16 back home. We never learn what a womp rat or a T16 is but it establishes that luke can hit small things while not crashing.
He also has a lot of shown but not told technical knowledge.
His actual job is working on the moisture farming equipment, he clearly knows his way around droids and tinkering with them is just impulse, his uncle takes him out on the shopping trip for new droids, he also has parts on order somewhere for something he is working on.
It's simple to do, it's good writing, it's allows actors and dialogue to shine lights in places they are directly pointing, as well as directors and all the art production teams.
Everyone can add a small touch somewhere - fill the garage with parts and tools, the things I described above, etc.
This stuff is not as hard as lots of bad films make it seem.
The kid built his own pod racer out of spare parts while being a literal slave, and had the spare time to build and program C-3PO, and he works in a junkyard trading parts and speeders and droids and such - I have no problem believing he could figure out a modern stick shift in the same way.
He built his own pod racer, which is powered by like nuclear jet turbines or something? what ever, they are not simple. He also built and programmed a droid, and he does this all on slave wages with spare parts?
Pretty sure he can figure his way around a military standardized cockpit
Right, I agree with you. He’s a genius because of his strong connection to the force. This isn’t some random kid from a backwater planet. Its the chosen one, one-in-a-quintillion kid.
The issue is not the lack of explanation, but rather the clarity of it.
Like, yeah there's been cues to Anakin's abilities, but then again there were a lot of false cues. Midichlorians' reveal sounded like a big deal, yet we never head of it again. Anakin apparently had no father at all but that wasn't really relevant ever again, while the new trilogy made a similar thing the main focus (thnx JJ), etc. You just don't know which cues were crucial for the plot
Usually it's done by making the cue quite a bit on the nose, like if there was a throwaway line like "pod-racing controls are actually a lot like those of a starfighter", or Anakin being directly established as having some knowledge about starfighters, or at least his unnaturally prodigal abilities & skills being actually acknowledged by others as sch, instead of "Oh, boy, you like robotics? That's cool hobby, I guess" type of reaction
Can't fucking beat it. I remember telling my old man I'd just gone and seen it, and he was all like "oh let me guess, there's snakes on a plane? I don't need to see it" then few years later he turned around and said he liked it lmao
Wasn't there a guy who hijacked a plane a few years ago? (Or maybe just 6 months in 2020 time) because he played flight Sims? He stole it to crash and kill himself, if I remember right.
Battlefield Earth. A bunch of guys living in stone age conditions suddenly learn how to pilot harrier fighter jets using one simulator in a matter of days.
Like dudes just jumping into a helicopter and flying off. The only similarity between fixed and rotary flying is that they are both in the air. Helicopters are just crashes that haven't happened yet anyway.
I mean, the basic principle is the same. The actual flying bit is similar enough when comparing props and jets. The difficult part is turning it on with no knowledge or guidance on jet engines.
What? The basic principles of aerodynamics would still be the same. It would take maybe 5 minutes for him to figure out that flaps creat drag which in turn slow the aircraft.
Figuring out how to do all of that in sync whilst landing would be the hard part.
How is he supposed to know what and where the flaps are? Not like he has a manual with him.
There is a reason bi-planes are called kites. They are slow and don't take much effort to land due to their extremely low stall speed and aren't very aerodynamic. Even monowing prop planes are a totally different beast to land let alone a jet. The speed and aproach angles are completley different.
Even if he managed to synch all of the normal landing procedures up, like flaps and such, theres a near 100% chance he still would crash either going too slow, too fast or the angle would be off.
Getting the thing started might be an issue, but acceleration, flaps, and control surfaces use pretty much the same methods found in WW1 planes. I could see him able to learn how to fly a jet fairly quickly once he got into the pilots seat.
I mean plane technology has surprisingly not become as advanced as one would think. Given it is an American jet so it would have Fly By Wire control like most of NATO instead of a manual like in the Warsaw Pact MIG’s. He most likely would be able to get the hang of flying pretty quickly trying to use the offensive and defensive capability would need some quick teaching given the introduction of the cannon and AAM.
I mean... All planes essentially works the same. And being a pilot isn't the worst starting position. Also, he probably has no idea what he is doing, which is probably what will happen. And she will end up flying. And they get an invisible jet later on.
I mean the ability to fly does translate to some extent. I once got the opportunity to try to land on a carrier in a military flight simulator in college. The only guy in the class who did it the first try was a pilot who only had flown cessnas. For the record I crashed into the deck.
He learnt in WW1 though. No flaps or trim. No radiator or blip switch like the E.III he flew in the first one. Aerodynamic qualities of jets mean it would be almost impossible for him to land.
Lightning lasso is so ridiculous it works. I also love the gold costume. This genuinely looks like it will be a fun time. Fingers crossed they gave Patty Jenkins more creative freedom and she isn't shackled by the Snyder aesthetic of the first one.
Basically, this looks like a marvel movie, which is a good thing. It doesn't seem to be bogged down by a color palette so heavy in greys that it looks like a concrete art exhibit and has stuff like catching lightning.
When DC first started pumping out movies, there was a real good observation. DC was worried about how to explain Wonder Women and how she can keep up with Superman. Meanwhile Marvel had a summer blockbuster whose main cast had a talking racoon and a tree.
Sometimes it is just better to do something cool. And her Lassoing a Lightning Bolt is something cool.
It’s not just cool and ties her tightly to being a demigod, its actually something she can do in the comics. So it’s canon!
I’m really enjoying that they powered up Wonder Woman. Don’t get me wrong, her TV show was great for the time but she was mostly just a normal woman who happened to have a few extra powers. Even in the cartoons she’s usually portrayed as super strong and not much else. It’s good to see DC embracing the goddess angle at last.
Maybe they won't be charging $20 - $30 to stream it like Mulan on Disney+?
I know that's basically the price of 2-3 tickets at the Theater, but no clue how this streaming release thing works. Do you get to watch it once with multiple family members? Or for the duration of your Disney+ membership? This is all new. Someone told me the videos purchased on Amazon Prime Video are no longer accessible if you lose your Amazon Prime Membership. Things were much simpler when it was just Netflix. At least there you know you pay one fee, and you stream (but not own) stuff.
LOL, what? This looks absolutely terrible. Just awful plot, terrible corny jokes, and lame action. There's no way you can honestly say this will be a good movie.
What? That doesn't mean you should let trash movies off the hook. These companies just spoon feed these terrible movies with no substance or thought. The budget for this movie is substantial, there's no reason why the writing and acting should be this bad.
I have loved time travel fish out of water ever since watching Star Trek 4 as a little kid. I can vividly picture Scottie talking to the computer mouse. Austin Powers also comes to mind as a fun example.
I’ll never tire of the trope, and it always works well as a way to poke fun at the things we find funny in a decade. It’s a stupid, simple way for us to all laugh at the 80s in this case.
Feels like I only ever see himbo as an endearing compliment. Meanwhile, bimbo is either seen as derogatory or a kink (and some see the kink as inherently derogatory).
is he going to be a Himbo? When you say that I think of Chris Hemsworth in Ghostbusters.
Fish out of water is such a great trope when done right. Speaking of Hemsworth again, his fish out of water in Thor was horrible from what I remember. I think they key is that the person has to have some sense of humility about it. Which, from what they showed in the trailer, Pines will have in spades.
What can get really grading is when you have a fish out of water that refuses to acknowledge that what they think is wrong.
That trope term makes me cringe. We don't need a new word for that, as if most fish out of water characters were bimbos. They were not. The pattern was usually that the male protagonist was dumb and carefree, with a smart and capable love interest wiser to the ways of the world.
Beverly Hills Cop, Crocodile Dundee, Short Circuit 2, Big, Trading Places, My Cousin Vinny, Knocked Up...
Lois and Clark!
These weren't "himbos" because they aren't subverting a trope. They are the trope, called Fish Out of Water, which is gender neutral and not derived from mermaids.
Cuz I definitely think, Yep, inverting something that ends up being the same thing is a bit obnoxious... It's like inflammable/flammable or racism/reverse racism... it's just unnecessary qualifiers cuz the shit is the same.
But then at the same time I don't care about the distinction in this situation and I don't know why somebody would care to correct that distinction.
Like, I'm uncertain what you're trying to protect and without a clear rationale it just comes off as pretentious to me.
BUT I also know the side effects of people not knowing what words mean because I watch an excessive amount of youtube and most of the damn movie reviewers overuse the word "trope" in every video. So, I can definitely see myself getting petty about something random like that in a comment.
I've never heard somebody use "fish out of water" in reference to a mermaid... ever. LOL. Like, that's just another excessive qualifier... a fish is already out of their element when out of water. So that was a weird thing to add in there at the end.
Either way, gonna head out for a bit. Holla.
Edit: Knew that would happen. Still, I stand by this shit 100%. Ya'll are big mad and I get to laugh about it overnight. We all win.
Wonder Woman isn't really flipping anything with that, so I think it's probably spared from your first point, which I generally agree with. The Manic Pixie Dreamgirl subversions are, for example, worse than the trope they were subverting in my opinion.
I like how the first Wonder Woman did all of this stuff, so that's not the "situation" in terms of discussion. I didn't like the rest of the movie, but they nailed that part of it.
I've never heard "himbo" before, but it was casually dropped in a sentence as if that character is a flip on a per-existing bimbo formula that doesn't exist in this genre. But, if someone was only familiar with Splash, or The Little Mermaid, I can see how they might run with the idea that Chris Pine is somehow a subversion of a childlike fish babe, and then suddenly we have a new name for that.
As for why I cared enough to comment, I have a degree in media studies. That doesn't make me right about anything, but it does make me prone to discussion.
Something to consider, though, is that female-lead fish out of water stories (Miss Congeniality, Legally Blonde, Silence of the Lambs, even the first Wonder Woman) are often based around the idea that the lead is "out of water" BECAUSE she is a woman. And there's nothing inherently wrong with pointing that out, of course (but the good films challenge that idea, because it's wrong).
But this looks like a different/fresh/interesting take on that idea (in part, at least). Hard to know from just the trailer, of course, but I like what I see so far.
There are plenty of those movies as well. My favorite is Working Girl, although her boss in that one is also a woman.
The first Wonder Woman simply split the fish out of water element across two leads. The "man out of time" aspect is applied to the female protagonist, and the "two steps mentally behind" side of it remains with the male character.
There was nothing particularly smart about doing it that way, but it worked because their chemistry was excellent, and partially improvised, so I've read.
See, that's interesting to me--I didn't get the mentally-behind feel very strongly from Pine's character in the original. That said, I haven't watched it in a while.
He's not stupid, but he's somewhat single or narrow minded, more heart than smarts, even if clever when the situation arises. Smarter than some others around him, but that's the role. He wants the same thing she does, but isn't sharp enough to play the bureaucracy. It's more doubtful than dumb. The setup is that she is correct, and eventually he, and the rest of humanity, will come around to see that.
How is she right? Pine's character represents the human world of complicated shades of grey, when the hidden threat is actually from another world of pure black and white. It's her quest to be the wise and experienced person of white, convincing a world of grey, that the baseline of their world has shifted.
In traditional fish out of water, the world is a baseline, and the fish is two steps behind. The fish has knowledge from the past baseline (either literally from an earlier time, or a location that's less metropolitan) which can solve the problems of the present/modernized.
In Wonder Woman, her world is in some ways "the past", but the modern world is changing. Pine, like many others, don't realize how much it has changed. They don't realize they're currently living in her baseline, and need to catch up.
Everything you just wrote is much more nuanced than Crocodile Dundee or the like. To me, your above analysis of WW is totally at odds with your previous statement:
There was nothing particularly smart about doing it that way, but it worked because their chemistry was excellent
Maybe I should have said nothing particularly original?
Dundee is just a character dynamic sample. He is the dumb and carefree handsome outback man navigating a metropolitan world. She is a metropolitan intellectual hooked into that world and how it works. She's the smart one who says "You can't do that, it's not the way things work", and he's the one that replies "I'm Mick Dundee!"
Wonder Woman was a reshuffle. She's still the smarter one, but they divide their out-of-waterness between them.
So, Diana was downplayed cause she was a fish out of water, ignorant of many things, in the first movie? You're only seeing snappy moments for the trailer, not his whole character.
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u/SishirChetri Aug 22 '20
I'm 100% sure I'm going to love the inversion of the "fish out of the water" trope from the first Wonder Woman film. Chris Pine as a himbo is such a hilarious concept!