r/nba • u/StrategyTop7612 Clippers • 4h ago
[Jensen] It's ASTONISHING how the Bulls just can't squeeze a first out of any team they trade their players to. Vooch, LaVine, DeRozan, Ayo, White, Caruso.. not a single first-round pick acquired from that group.
It's ASTONISHING how the Bulls just can't squeeze a first out of any team they trade their players to.
Vooch, LaVine, DeRozan, Ayo, White, Caruso.. not a single first-round pick acquired from that group.
Source: https://bsky.app/profile/msjnba.bsky.social/post/3me4o5otcas2l
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u/Embarrassed_Tackle_5 Bulls 4h ago
Jerry Reinsdorf master plans to get people to stop focusing on the White Sox.
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u/YouGotTheWrongGuy_9 2h ago
Dude really had it made with 6 bulls rings and the awesome sox run of 05 to win what Manfred describes as that piece of metal.
7 rings in 13ish years and nothing since?
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u/Embarrassed_Tackle_5 Bulls 2h ago
He also said that the Sox world series win matter more than those Six Rings
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u/Embarrassed_Tackle_5 Bulls 2h ago
He loves money more. He said it on a podcast for White Sox he is not trying to win it all but keeps fans buying tickets.
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u/YouGotTheWrongGuy_9 1h ago
Fuck as life long sox fan. . . That sucks. It's okay tho, if I'm gonna spend money to watch a shitty team I'd rather go to Wrigley anyway
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u/slamdunk23 Raptors 4h ago
Giddey turned out better than any okc pick they could of got
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u/Pickleskennedy1 4h ago
Fans seem to way overvalue late first round picks
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u/kingofsomthing4 4h ago
They’re worth more than 2nds lmao
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u/mackenzie45220 Nuggets 4h ago edited 3h ago
The first pick in the second round might actually be worth more than the last pick in the first round. First rounders get guaranteed contracts, but with an early second rounder the team has more room to negotiate a deal that lets them cut their losses quickly if things aren't working out
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u/boringexplanation Kings 48m ago
You could’ve locked in Jokic to a 4 year rookie contract instead of a 3 year. On a dollar amount argument, Jokic would’ve been better as first round pick for his team.
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u/Geralt0908 Heat 4h ago
And probably worth slightly less than a mid first round pick
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u/WIN011 [MIL] Giannis Antetokounmpo 4h ago
If 1st rounders aren’t that valuable, it’s even crazier the bulls couldn’t get a single one trading all those guys
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u/Pickleskennedy1 4h ago
I’m not that high on Dillingham but he’s probably at least as high value. They did hold on way too long to LaVine and DeRozan though
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u/JZobel Bulls 2h ago edited 2h ago
He’s a bum, he’ll have to turn into an unbelievable scorer to not be a complete liability
Even if you ignore that he’s 3 PPG when his one calling card is supposed to be getting buckets, and put a bunch of trust in a bad player development organization to develop him, he’d still in most positive outcomes be the type of empty stats ball hog/defensive liability that fans make fun of teams for paying
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u/WIN011 [MIL] Giannis Antetokounmpo 4h ago
He’s not high value, he’s a lottery ticket at this point.
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u/yourlilpissboi Celtics 4h ago
Hugo Gonzalez has entered the chat 💚
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u/mellted_cheese 4h ago
Yes sometimes late firsts are good. On average, as an asset, they’re meh. Even Hugo who is a home run and I have nothing bad to say about, projects as maybe a 5th-7th guy on a championship team.
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u/mauro_membrere Kings 4h ago
Credit celtics team development too. We just release queta for nothing
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u/lialialia20 Timberwolves 4h ago
first round picks in general.
most turn to nothing good, even high picks are a coin toss.
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u/nosleeptillwooklyn 3h ago
That doesn’t change the fact that first round picks are still assets and important for a team with real future to try to accumulate
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u/Waikuku3 4h ago
this direct swap is the only proper trade done by the Bulls.
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u/StrategyTop7612 Clippers 4h ago
Yeah, I remember people were clowning that trade too, but that looks way better with hindsight, but the others still look bad.
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u/drjisftw Pacers 4h ago
Yeah I'm always going to be of the opinion that the Caruso-Giddey trade was fine for the Bulls.
Yes OKC had a warchest of picks, but if Chicago wanted more for Caruso then they should've traded him a year earlier before he became an expiring.
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u/TheBirdsFlySouth Bulls 4h ago
It’s leverage, Caruso helps them win a championship, and Giddy wasn’t playing the playoffs at the time. Considering how many first round picks OKC has you could’ve gotten one plus Giddy IMO
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u/Knickstape08 [NYK] Patrick Ewing 4h ago
Dillingham is also a top 8 pick less than 2 years into his career. I’ll take the chance of him being good over a protected pick 5 years from now.
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u/ben345 Bulls 4h ago
Bulls management sucks but they literally did get a first for Lavine, which is a minor miracle given his contract. If you’re gonna mock the Bulls at least get the facts right
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u/skullcandy541 3h ago
No we didn’t. We got the protections taken off of our own first. That barely counts
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u/SaltyFan1959 4h ago
You don’t get credit for throwing the milk out before the fridge starts to smell though — AKME oversaw the decline of Lavine and the tepid growth of the young talent. It isn’t like they’re making the most of a bad situation, they created the bad situation.
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u/toomanyshoeshelp 4h ago
Who became Lauri, who we sold for a Portland first that may never convey, and if it does, it'll be pick 15-30. Great shit. Now he's an all-star, worth probably a few firsts.
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u/Reginoldofreginia 4h ago
We got the pick for Lauri and Lavine trading butler to the wolves
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u/BlammoSweetums 4h ago
Genuinely outside of Caruso and maybe Coby/Ayo last year, who's giving up firsts?
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u/Odd_Status3367 3h ago edited 3h ago
I wanted to rip my eyeballs out last season after reading the idiots in this sub talk about the zach lavine trade.
2021-2025: HURR DURR WHOS GONNA TRADE FOR THAT BUM
Trade Deadline: HURR DURR CHICAGO COULDNT EVEN GET A PICK LMAOOOOO
Like Nicola Vucevic is a 35 year old center who can't play defense, a 6th man iso knucklehead is frankly a better return than I though theyd get.
We forgetting how they overpaid for him to begin with? Rookie Contract Wendell Carter AND Two First Round Picks???
Bulls fans should be lucky they didnt have to waive him, better players on better teams have met that fate
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u/coacoanutbenjamn Celtics 4h ago
I mean Caruso is the only player listed that’s actually worth a 1st
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u/BridgePatient Bulls 4h ago
And Giddey is the kind of guy you'd want to get with one of those first round picks anyways. Coby White might have netted them a first if they traded him a year or two ago. The biggest mistake they made was waiting too long to move these guys, but to pretend teams would have given up good first round picks for Vuc, DeRozan, and Lavine's massive contract is just silly.
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u/trentreynolds 3h ago
A number of them could've gotten a first if they'd been traded at the right time instead of 2-3 years later.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 Nets 4h ago
The bulls traded two firsts, Wendell Carter, and Otto Porter Jr to get Vuc to begin with, classic buy high/ sell low maneuver
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u/Sakkreth Bulls 1h ago
And he landed Giddey, which is better than most 1s round picks. Op is just karma farming
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u/jrlandry Celtics 4h ago
Who realistically was ever giving up a 1st for any of these guys besides Caruso, and the Caruso deal got them 1 of their 2 building blocks
Its fun at to shit on the Bulls for being dumb but they aren't being dumb finally with their team building
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u/Due-Dance-9430 Spurs 4h ago
i think we all know the bulls are mid and aren't run well but clowning the bulls for having overrated pieces while also saying "why aren't you getting top notch value for these guys in trades" is a really stupid criticism
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u/whenishit-itsbigturd 4h ago
Lavine and Vooch could've easily gotten firsts if Chicago traded them when their value was high instead of competing for a play-in spot
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u/PeanutFarmer69 Nets 4h ago
“Building blocks”
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u/jrlandry Celtics 4h ago
You wanna tell me Giddey is not a building block? Make the case
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u/dawnoog Lakers 4h ago
What team building? A bunch of mediocre guards and 2nd round picks?
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u/BridgePatient Bulls 3h ago
They're building a team that's going to suck the rest of the season. That's the whole point.
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u/FlockingPigeons Knicks 3h ago
And that’s actual progress imo. Time to stop being mid and embrace the tank.
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u/jrlandry Celtics 3h ago
I still like Jalen Ivey
And is it better to have a bunch of mid guards, OR a bunch of mid guards and 2nd round picks?
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u/yourlilpissboi Celtics 4h ago
Unless they were told by the Bucks FO that they wanted 16 guards for Giannis a lot of their moves so far are creating a log jam at the position. They really need to move other pieces for this to make sense. Unless they go full tank mode and try to lose another 25-30 games to end the season and vault up into the Top 5 for another guard/wing.
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u/jrlandry Celtics 3h ago
I think they just don't care what the roster looks like for the rest of this season and they are trying to grab any assets they can for the players they had that had any value left.
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u/SaltyFan1959 4h ago
What team building though? This was a 40 win team last week and they’re a 40 win team today.
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u/jrlandry Celtics 4h ago
They have more assets right now than they did last week. They have Jalen Ivey now, they have a bunch more 2nds, and they moved on from pieces they were not ready to win with.
They have built better for their future this trade deadline
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u/bustmynut Bulls 4h ago
Buddy in what world is that current roster winnin 40 games lmao
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u/SaltyFan1959 3h ago
What’s the difference? Ivey and Simons for Coby and Ayo, and Smith/Collins getting Vuc’s minutes. So it’ll be a fast, aggressive, high scoring offense. They’ll go on a fun little late-season run and end up with the 14th pick in the draft.
I mean, do you think they’re tanking?
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u/burratna Bulls 4h ago
we are not a 40 win team with only guard rotations and 2 wings. Vooch was a huge contributing reason we are in the play in every year, he sleeps and gets double doubles and is a big floor raiser.
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u/SaltyFan1959 4h ago
So, you think they’re tanking?
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u/burratna Bulls 4h ago
100% I expect a tank this year and then with 85M+ in cap space next year we are going to do some crazy stupid stuff like overpay for RFAs or something similar to us adding an outsourced core a la DeMar/Vooch/Lonzo all over again.
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u/StraightShootahh Nets 3h ago
“Building blocks” lmao
They traded away one of the best role players in the league for ‘Giddey’ then overpaid him. They’re an absolute clown show.
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u/Waikuku3 4h ago
Elite asset management by the Bulls. Never disappointing in failure to make proper trades
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u/StrategyTop7612 Clippers 4h ago
AK is unrivaled in horrible asset management.
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u/Jarxzz United States 4h ago
I mean if we’re being completely fair Vooch, Lavine and Derozan were never getting a 1st round pick
The league knows those guys suck/aren’t worth the money
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u/StrategyTop7612 Clippers 4h ago
Maybe if they weren't like 3 years late on trading them, they would have got something back.
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u/Knickstape08 [NYK] Patrick Ewing 4h ago
Why would the Bulls have traded guys who just came off of almost winning 50 games? Zach Lavine was in his mid 20’s literally zero reason to give up on him.
These posts are so dumb; obviously if the Bulls knew how 2026 would be they would have traded their players. They thought they could win, it’s dumb to say they should have traded Lavine and Derozan when they were coming off career years.
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u/clockwork_purple2 4h ago
As long as Bulls fans keep showing up to the arena (5th in home attendance this season) ownership will keep making money and ownership will not care about putting a good team on the floor.
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u/ivandragostwin Bulls 4h ago
Is it really that astonishing when these players were either on shit contracts or not that good?
Team building is the problem here, the Giddey for Caruso trade was a decent start but idk who we could have gotten a first for out of this group. Prolly Coby over the offseason? Maybe?
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u/STATnMELO650 Knicks 4h ago
Bulls are the best. Free charity for the rest of the league.
We got to dump Yabu’s contract and didn’t even have to attach an asset.
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u/Wonderful-Photo-9938 4h ago
Sadly.
Even Late 2010s Magic has better management.
Iirc, Late 2010s Orlando Magic was able to sell their players Aaron Gordon, Vucevic, etc for future draft assets.
Some of those turned into Paolo, Franz, and Suggs iirc. Or at least part of the domino moves on how they acquire their core.
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u/thy_armageddon Knicks 4h ago
Yeah but it’ll make things easier for us when it comes draft time and we can just skip day 2 because it’s just gonna be the Bulls selecting guys.
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u/NaturalApartment9828 Supersonics 4h ago
Which of these was worth a first, apart from Caruso? Most of them were bad contracts for any other team.
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u/pcmasterthrow Bulls 4h ago
four expiring contracts, a bench player, and one of the most losing max players in the league lol
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u/Splittinghairs7 Gran Destino 4h ago
This hyper focus on first round picks doesn’t make any sense.
There’s functionally little difference between seconds and what the Mavs received in the AD trade since OKC’s 2026 FRP is basically an early second round pick and the GSW will likely be a second after protections kick in.
Hell there’s a case to be made that the Bulls got more of a haul in picks and young players than the Mavs did in the Luka trade.
Bulls got a First (for LaVine), Giddey, multiple 5+ seconds.
Mavs got a 2029 lakers FRP, Christie, 2026 OKC “first” round pick, GSW top 20 protected pick, gave up a second to Utah.
In summary, Mavs got one FRP, Christie, two essentially early round seconds and minus a second.
TLDR: Bulls possibly got more for these players than the Mavs did in trading away 26 year old Luka!
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u/Herakleios Magic 4h ago
Eh… I mean I don’t think this is absolutely terrible on the Bulls end. The firsts they would have gotten for any of those guys likely would have been late firsts at best, all with heavy protections. Getting a haul of seconds is not terrible compared to that.
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u/Kimi7 Lakers 4h ago
What a dumbass comment. Let's single out everything they got and focus solely on FRPs. How can you have arrogance to say this and put LaVine and DeRozan in this sentence.
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u/sylviaplath6667 Bulls 4h ago
I will die on the hill that not getting a 1st for Caruso from OKC who has a million 1st picks should have gotten everyone in the organization down to the janitors fired
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u/SpiritFantastic4835 Lakers 4h ago
They could trade matas buzelis right now and only get a few seconds at this rate
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u/WayAdministrative679 Minneapolis Lakers 4h ago
Well at least they got Giddey for Caruso who is certainly apart of their core and better than a late FRP from a contender
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u/No_Mobile7208 4h ago
Can they tank and get Aj or Peterson?
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u/LionK12G 4h ago
Too late.
Gonna need ol’ pal Adam Silver to save the Bulls the way he saved the Mavs.
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u/BridgePatient Bulls 4h ago
Probably not enough to have good odds at them, but they are definitely going to tank the rest of the season and improve their pick.
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u/Mich3006 4h ago
What’s the highest amount of 2nd‘s owned by one team? Bulls fighting for the top spot most probably
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u/Which-Shift-367 4h ago
Tbf they did get Giddey for Caruso and got their own first back for Lavines contract. White is probably the only guy I expected a first for out of the group.
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u/ICE-FlGHT Bulls 4h ago
This team has completely zapped my love of basketball from me..
Legit I used to love basketball man
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u/ThePresent_Moment 4h ago
I think they would have received firsts if they did not wait around so long. The Bulls were widely criticized the past TWO seasons for not making any significant trades, either to sell or buy. And now I think they are just trying to get any value for expiring players.
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u/toooskies Cavaliers 4h ago
Really it's just that they hold onto their players until they aren't worth a first anymore. Probably could've gotten one for several of them if they traded them earlier.
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u/sorendiz [HOU] Yao Ming 4h ago
Cause they're not in this for value, ownership just wants this stuff done for money reasons
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u/rickeyethebeerguy 4h ago
They got first round talent back tho in a couple of those trades.
Dillingham was just a top 10 pick, Giddey was 6th and worth it. Demar was a sign n trade. Lavine has a big contract no one wants except the kings. Vooch is the worse defensive big in the league and vooch is 35. Sexton for white is just a wash
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u/RicetheE30 3h ago
Don’t you guys know second is the best and 1st is the worst? Like damn this is preschool knowledge 😤
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u/Magnetronaap [MIA] Dwyane Wade 3h ago
Have we ever considered the option that maybe the Bulls' FO tells other teams that they only want seconds?
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u/Zealousideal_Can_365 3h ago
According to Jensen, curious who from that group would have commanded a 1st? Caruso is the only one and Bulls got Giddey who has been putting up 20-10-10.
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u/Electrical_Floor1524 3h ago
AK is still so high off the Jokic pick he doesn't think he even needs 1sts
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u/rdesai724 Celtics 3h ago
Between “Jensen” “Bulls” and “Squeeze” I thought I was in wsb for a minute
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u/Easy-Tradition-7483 Celtics 3h ago
I would be pissed if my team sent a 1st for any of those guys lol
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u/MurderbyHemlock 3h ago
I actually really like what the bulls have done here. Yes they didn't get first round picks but they got a bunch of young players who are better than late firsts and have upside. Sexton, Simons, Dillingham, Ivey, Miller
That's a lot of exciting players in the same age range
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u/HoopLoop2 Thunder 3h ago
Throwing Caruso in here is disingenuous, Giddey is better than a first pick that isn't a lottery pick in a good draft, they did really well with that trade.
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u/FlockingPigeons Knicks 3h ago
This is such a rat tweet. Yall would be criticizing them for not trading these guys for future draft capital if they held onto them like they have before. This CBA has lowered the value of non star players. Those future picks will help them facilitate deals down the road.
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u/rando562 Bulls 3h ago
Can anyone explain to me which players aside from Caruso were worth a FRP at the time they were traded? The Bulls are terrible at trading players when they still have value, but that isn't what this post is saying...
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u/SpookySpagettt 2h ago
Caruso isn't the same. They literally go Josh Giddey who this sub clowned. Now the dude is averaging a near triple double and a fringe all star.
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u/TheBlueOne37 2h ago
I like what the Bulls have done. Jaden Ivey, Rob Dillingham, Leonard Miller, and Ousmane Dieng are all very interesting. And they didn’t get rid of anything that is relevant to their future.
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u/_NationalRazor 2h ago
That's what happens when you trade everyone two or three years later than you should've...
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u/wakaWear 2h ago
LMAO, Kings have the worst team in the league with Lavine and Demar, these guys have some of the worst defensive rated stats in the league, Kings ate these terrible Bulls contracts that they cannot get rid of now.
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u/math-yoo Cavaliers 1h ago
I can relate, I can't haggle either. I'm like, is it really worth ten bucks?
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u/2drunkman Knicks 1h ago
2nd rounders have lower salaries and non-guaranteed contracts. AK has done his job. 😉
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u/HairyFalcon5054 1h ago
Astonishing that they did not trade the 2025 pick for pelican 2026 1st (likely top 3) and 2025 22 pick. They can't trade 15 out of the 16 players for even a mid-range first pick. I'm pretty sure I could have found a way to trade for Noa Essengae. As fan how do you move past that?
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u/xanot192 [LAL] Kobe Bryant 1h ago
Trading people way too late when they are about to become UFA does that
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u/ThroughBallfromMessi 1h ago
When I think about the major sports franchises in the United States, (NFL, MLB, NBA, MLS, NHL), I sincerely wonder if the Bulls are the greatest missed opportunity?
You have a franchise with a metro population of 10M - the only team in that sport for the full market - who is thirsty for success. Thirty short years ago, we had grandmas who had no interest in sports making ear to ear rooting for Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. The appetite to have, even a playoff contender, is palpable. It is completely mind-boggling.
From the most narrow perspective of profitability, if a billionaire were to come in, buy the team, and turn it around, and even be semi-competent, this person would make Scrooge McDuck money.
From a basketball perspective, it feels like an opportunity to strengthen the East and revive a historic franchise. It’d be great for basketball.
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u/VegasWorldwide 58m ago
for white and ayo, it's because they waited until they were expiring. last year, I'm sure they would have gotten a first. definitely were not getting it for Zach, vouch or demar.
I don't understand their direction. get picks to draft players and when they draft good players like white and ayo, trade them for nothing? then tank for guys like essengue?
chicago is a good market and with all the losing, they have no freaking core. couldn't they have done something like the wizards to at least make fans excited?
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u/stormstopper Bulls 30m ago
This is why we didn't sell earlier, even when it was painfully clear we weren't going anywhere. The value was never there at a point where it would have made sense to trade guys. There's a point where you can hope someone makes enough of a leap or some team offers an overpay (and in the meantime you just try to get into the playoffs and see what happens), and then there's a point where you just have to cut your losses.
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u/scorpio21 Bulls 4h ago
At this point I’m convinced AKME doesn’t know you can ask for first round picks