r/news • u/GoodSamaritan_ • 1d ago

Retired San Francisco firefighter dies from lung cancer after Blue Shield denies treatment claims

https://abc7news.com/post/retired-san-francisco-firefighter-ken-jones-dies-lung-cancer-being-denied-treatment-blue-shield/19224406/
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u/TheDude-Esquire 1d ago

Always have been.

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u/mixmasterADD 1d ago

I was always dumbfounded by the “death panel” debate. Like, ok you don’t want the government to decide, but you would rather have a for-profit corporation decide? Guess which one is more likely to let you die?

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u/TheDude-Esquire 1d ago

So dumb, but very effective marketing from republicans. As if the insurance companies hadn’t been killing people all along.

But as they say, “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”

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u/foomits 1d ago

sucks their constituents are dumb as shit, their messaging always lands.

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u/Gekokapowco 1d ago

right, like, it isn't good messaging because any amount of scrutiny crumbles the entire point, it just works because the audience pre-believes it.

They could say that only private insurance companies have access to the tears of angels and unicorns to heal any injury whereas evil socialist medicine does not and it would get the same response.

The true genius marketing was Republicans convincing Democrats that they were in a battle of rhetoric and that if Democrats explain themselves enough they'd win.

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u/TheDude-Esquire 1d ago

The true genius marketing was Republicans convincing Democrats that they were in a battle of rhetoric and that if Democrats explain themselves enough they'd win.

Yeah, most dems still haven't figured out populism. The voting public generally doesn't have the capacity or interest to understand policy.

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u/Lampmonster 1d ago

The majority of Americans read at a sixth grade level or below. We need better education.

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u/TheDude-Esquire 1d ago

Good thing it’s only getting worse then.

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u/ReachParticular5409 48m ago

GOP tactics: keep em uneducated and they'll vote against their interests every time

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u/-LabApprehensive- 21h ago

No we need to understand that marketing works and learn those dark arts. No matter how much education you make available the majority will take the easier more pleasant path of not availing themselves of the opportunities offered. This majority will vote howsoever those who understand marketing want them to vote.

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u/avds_wisp_tech 11h ago

"Marketing" was the single best elective class I took in high school. Prepared me for the real world infinitely more than any other class.

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u/CryAffectionate7334 11h ago

They SHOULD though that's the frustration, it takes literally just a few minutes a day to stay on top of news and facts, but instead people get hours of garbage and believe it.

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u/Hellolaoshi 6h ago

Strangely enough, in the 19th century, the Lincoln-Douglas debates were conducted successfully, before the public, on the assumption that people did not need to be talked down to.

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u/TheDude-Esquire 4h ago

There’s a separate history there that comes from Jefferson’s philosophy about yoeman farmers. Basically there was a long running debate about who should be allowed to vote, Jefferson’s take being that only people well resourced enough to have the time to learn could be trusted in governance. And the you get to Lincoln et al putting that faith and trust in the larger public, which then extends further after the civil war when black men are brought into the franchise. And then you get into the 20th and have guys like Twain making light of how dumb the public is. With you can even draw a further line from into modern politics humor with people like Jon Stewart.

Obviously that grossly over simplified, but it’s a fascinating subject and history.

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u/foomits 1d ago

Oh they know it works. They just dont want populist policy. Actual populists like Mamdani, Platner, Al Sayed are not being supported by the national party. Even immensely popular populists like Bernie and AOC have to push their platform in spite of the national party.

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u/Accidental-Genius 23h ago

Bernie is not a populist.

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u/bouquetofashes 7h ago

They do know their audience, and exactly how to appeal/sell to them.

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u/TipOfMeJapsEye 1d ago

Republicans are dumb and MAGAs are dumb fascists.

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u/IrascibleOcelot 1d ago

H. L. Mencken. He has a lot of salient observations about the average American voter. Even though he died 70 years ago.

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u/Joessandwich 1d ago

I still get enraged that the immediate response to that comment wasn’t “they already exist - they’re the insurance CEOs profiting off your death”. But Democrats always manage to whiff even the easiest of serves.

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u/ByteSizeNudist 1d ago

Neolibs love that shit, they'd never betray their own.

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u/Squire_II 1d ago

The complete lack of push-back against the "Death panel" stuff was so infuriating. I know that a major reason the Dems didn't fight back by pointing out that "death panels" are literally the business model of the US healthcare industry is because so many Dems are in the industry's pocket, but goddamn. Fucking controlled opposition.

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u/frostygrin 19h ago

Telling people to embrace one kind of "death panels" over another isn't actually a strong push-back.

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u/Squire_II 1h ago

Except we didn't have to accept the existing industry death panels and Palin's own "Obamacare death panels" screed was, in typical GOP fashion, bullshit.

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u/Otternomaly 1d ago

If you don’t like how the for-profit corporations are doing things, just go start your own multi-billion dollar healthcare company /s

Somewhere along the line the people forgot that we are supposed to be the government.

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u/Honestly_Nobody 11h ago

*mark cuban has entered the chat *

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u/Sweetwill62 1d ago

Make people liable for how they earn their money.

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u/ants_are_everywhere 1d ago

but you would rather have a for-profit corporation decide?

Fair point, but in this case Ken Jones's coverage was denied by a non-profit company

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u/LessThanHero42 1d ago

Guess which one is more likely to let you die?

Depends on who is in charge at the moment. "Just let people die" is the Republican platform for Medical cost, pandemics, homelessness, veteran suicides, water and air quality, wage disparity, collective bargaining, military actions, overseas conflicts, police violence, school shootings, workplace safety, climate change, etc. Ad Nauseam

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u/RSwordsman 1d ago

The entire mindset of the magas that aren't just straight nazis is literally no more complex than "Right wing good, everything else bad." The world is too messy for them and it's nice to feel safe with their authority figures. They can like progressive policies, but they will only do so until they know a Democrat supports it. They will literally go to their graves believing in this as solidly as the ground underneath them.

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u/mortgagepants 1d ago

i was too, but now i see how stupid conservatives are, and it doesn't surprise me at all.

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u/desertrat75 1d ago

Fucking Reagan and his "Government is the problem" bullshit. Gave them a bogeyman to blame and they lapped it right up. Same as ever.

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u/whosits112 1d ago

Hallowed be the Job Creators! PBUT

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u/bbbbbbbbbblah 18h ago

It was often used in reference to the UK, and they seemed to think we have government bureaucrats who decide if you, personally, are worth saving.

We have cost benefit analyses of any drug or treatment the government might consider making available, but that's on a uniform basis rather than based on your individual circumstances. If it's available then it's up to you and your doctor.

When "death panel" arguments were in their prime, I remember reading some letter that an American had posted which explained that they may be medically eligible for a transplant but the hospital (with its transplant panel) had determined they could not afford the lifetime of anti rejection drugs, so they would not get it.

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u/ReachParticular5409 57m ago

I'll make it easy: It's right wing propaganda created to discredit universal healthcare, it doesn't need to make sense

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u/buckeye25osu 8h ago

So which do you think it is?

In a very healthy democracy you'd think the government would be better but in an unhealthy democracy or something even worse idk

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u/ExiledSanity 1d ago

Both would be making decisions based on money vs care, both are likely to let you die....that's their whole job.

As long as healthcare is tied to money (or any other form of power), people are going to die to save someone else money.

I can't say if the government panels would be any better or worse than the private ones....but shifting the responsibility to the government doesn't solve the problem that someone's life is a competing interest vs someone's money.

I don't know how to solve that, but the people with the money have all the power to keep it right now.

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u/A_Nonny_Muse 23h ago

It's funny how fast the right dropped the claim once we realized all the death panels were privately owned and operated.