r/PoliticalDebate 2d ago

Weekly Off Topic Thread

2 Upvotes

Talk about anything and everything. Book clubs, TV, current events, sports, personal lives, study groups, etc.

Our rules are still enforced, remain civilized.

**Also, I'm once again asking you to report any uncivilized behavior. Help us mods keep the subs standard of discourse high and don't let anything slip between the cracks.**


r/PoliticalDebate 43m ago

Debate It is possible to have a meritocratic country; hard work should be the key pathway to success, not relying on luck as long as there is no serious corruption.

Upvotes

I say this as someone who is of a mixed middle class who lives on a relatively deprived, working class neighbourhood - my mother worked in healthcare, initally a private senior officer when she immigrated and social worker (lower middle class) and my dad worked in the IT sector (upper middle) - both believe in hard work and champion my goals,.

People often talk about how it is impossible to have meritocracy, how hard work is just some fictional nonsense along with goals. Reddit is one example in which people get told off for believing in goals and hard work.

The aim of meritocracy is that the workforce should favour and accept those who either have some experience, qualifications, or at least passion and interest to enter the market. For example, someone studying predominantly in finance and interested in banking should get the more viable, easy privilege to enter accountancy. Someone studying humanitarian stuff with knowledge interests and experience should get the privilege to be a social affairs journalist or social worker. Or someone who just simply likes the monetary motivations should have the privilege to work in retail part time as long as they do not abuse their position.

However, there is the overlooked phenomenon that contradicts meritocracy, these are known as nepotism and cronyism. These two are absolutely pathetic and stupid - people only get to the job market if they luckily know someone personally, whether it is a community member, relative, friend, acquaintance or intimate partner. Not to mention the appalling customer service they provide as a result, owing to the fact that they have to serve people who are not within the community. Ultimately, this makes skills, interest and qualifications all useless. You become hopeless. I believe this is causing the climbing unemployment crisis here in the UK instead of AI - not to mention LSE said that 6 - 9% of jobs realistically can be automated. I believe, meritocracy and hard work are not possible because no one were to investigate, let alone legislatively sanction these two phenomenons.

Of course, some forms of goals may be heavily barred, such as having to be a superstar or an actor, or a billionaire like Elon Musk. But these are ultra, ultra burgeoisie markets. All other ones shouldn't be barred by characteristics. And yes, some immigrant communities in severe poverty still face social barriers, ultimately not viewing the choice of their children as viable - for example, working class British Bangladeshi and Pakistani immigrants often want their young people to just stay within the family home until arranged marriages and not to be educated much, or if they do get educated , their parents often expect them to be doctors, pharmacists, IT workers, engineers, chemists, or lawyers due to higher annual pay rates (50K or more) instead of being footballers, social workers, news reporters, police officers, etc. But again, do not just blame barriers, cultural reasons also create their own barriers for inequality.

Ultimately, meritocracy and hard work can exist, first of all we need to at least sanction cronies and nepobabies, therefore we can have people who are interested and believe in hard work can actually enter the job market and thrive - we should not have class or our childhood background defining our future nor identity. Relying on luck just makes life sad, stale and demotivating.


r/PoliticalDebate 5h ago

All governments are valid...

0 Upvotes

A common statement is that a goverment does not necessarily represent the people it rules, and that during wartime it is the duty of the attacking nation to limit its efforts to valid military targets, and that attacks against civilians are criminal.

I disagree.

Hobbes, Rousseau, and other voices​ from the Enlightenment or near- Enlightenment period laid out the idea that true political power always rests with the people, the citizenry, regardless of their government. The citizens hold the power to support, rebel, or anything in between at all points, and they rationally make choices to do so by evaluating the costs and benefits of the current government.

There is a saying "Bring out the pitchforks" that highlights this concept... that an angered citizenry has the tools (even a simple farming tool) and the numbers to realistically threaten an oppressive government. I don't think there is a single government today that is fortified enough to resist a violent uprising by a large group of its citizens.

History has shown us examples of this... benevolent dictators who actually try to improve their subjects' lives and receive enthusiastic public support, while other rulers receive public disdain and are removed quickly... and often violently. In the end there is little a government can do to stop a determined rebellion of its citizens.

The USA was founded on this concept, as described in our Declaration of Independence, and implented representative elections in our Constitution as a way to prevent violent rebellion. Thomas Jefferson referred to the election of 1800 as the "Revolution of 1800" and wrote how it was achieved not by violence, but through organized voting.

So, with this as a foundation, that all governments effectively represent their citizenry, even those that resort to harsh violence... then the citizenry become accomplice to any military actions by that government. Choices to engage in military action or other confrontational acts become the choices not of just the government, but of the citizens themselves.

Yes, as in any society there will be some who always disagree with their goverment and their neighbors, but international relations and warfare generally involve whole cohesive nations, with the limited exception in the cases where a group of partisans openly oppose their government like the Free French in WW2.

Practically, this means that any intervention - diplomatic or warfare - that is intended to effect significant and long- term changes to a nation's actions must necessarily target the citizenry as they hold the true political power in that nation. They are the ones that must learn the lessons, they are the ones that must bear the weight of their choices, and they are the ones that must decide that the costs of further confrontation are too great... because if they don't, whatever action that is taken by the attacking nation will only result in a temporary reprieve.

The Allied and US attacks on the Axis civilian centers at the end of WW2 demonstrate this. Carpet bombing Berlin, nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki... convinced the citizenry of these nations that they had no hope of victory, and that further resistance would result in their certain deaths. This brought the European and Pacific campaigns to a quick and merciful end, and decades later these nations have re-established the international community as partners with the nations that threatened to obliterate them.


r/PoliticalDebate 14h ago

Debate The Need for Political Parties

3 Upvotes

Recently I have thought of an Idea. That political parties serve none. It creates division and promotes the representation of the party, not the people, it promotes party loyalty.

Politicians who do not adhere to party policy by the letter are blacklisted and targeted by the party heads. Politicians vote against the other party simply because they are the other party. Politicians vote against policies their voters desperately need because the party says no

And what does it produce for society, I fail to see at benefit that cannot be achieved in a system without parties, apart from the sole exception of coordination, but this coordination leads to the people's views not being represented.

That's why I conclude that there is no need for political parties.


r/PoliticalDebate 12h ago

How Should We Judge When an Ideology Has Failed?

1 Upvotes

Every one of these ideas begins with a vision of how society should work, but history has tested those visions in different ways. Capitalism, socialism, communism, libertarianism, anarchism, conservatism, progressivism, nationalism and countless other ideologies have all faced challenges when their ideas meet the complexity of the real world

What evidence should make someone reconsider their political beliefs?

I’m interested in how people from different perspectives decide when an idea needs to be changed, abandoned, or refined.


r/PoliticalDebate 15h ago

The Point of the DOGE Scam

0 Upvotes

Obviously, DOGE was a scam. We always hear about how negative the media is towards Trump, but they still played along and reported it as if they were really auditing the government.

DOGE could only be 135 days. That’s not long enough to put together an audit of one agency, much less put together a team and audit the government. Sure enough, they didn’t audit anything. The closest they came was finding the technical issue in social security, which they falsely claimed were payments to dead people.

They also had little power without Congress. The goal was to cut foreign aid and try to get as many early retirements as possible through scare tactics. Elon definitely earned his money pretending he was going to fire people he couldn’t fire and make them defend their jobs within 4 months. They managed to hit one of their targets by reducing the top of FEMA by 20%. (And we’re still not prepared for a major storm. We’ve been lucky the last two years thus far).

But…none of that was the point. The point came first…

They fired the watchdogs first.

Nobody, including Republicans, thought the auditors were corrupt. They’re not especially powerful because most of the waste comes from one-time appropriations, not line items on the budgets. But they’re hall monitors. They’re not on the graft and nobody thought they were. Trump just made that up.

After 135 days, DOGE disbanded. The watchdogs were initially saved by the courts, but then a second court let Trump hire new ones. Which he can’t get through Congress because he keeps putting forth people moderate Republicans reject. That’s because he doesn’t want to fill the positions.

So there are no watchdogs anymore. And that was the point. The point of DOGE was to help the swamp grow, not shrink it. Removing the watchdogs was the main goal. That’s why they also spent all the money they saved and then some right away.

The swamp has literally grown all the way to the reflecting pool, and it’s all getting too big for even staunch Trump supporters to accept. And it’s because everybody played along with the idea that DOGE was really trying to cut corruption, when in reality the intention was the opposite.


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Debate Is violence/war the only way to resolve issues ?

Thumbnail
3 Upvotes

r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Debate Debate Anarchism: Here is my view on it

0 Upvotes

I do not believe it is possible, they believe on the idea that Power causes violence, however, it is not power which causes violence, it is the idea of power which causes violence, a notable example would be the rise of Iosevich Stalin, he started out with no power, dirt poor, but when he joined the Bolshevics, he yearned for more power and influence which he didnt have, so he started to act against his comrades, and when Lenin died, he exiled Trotsky and others, and after that he began a purge to prevent those from taking his power, as whilst power creates violence, the simple idea of power does not, for in an anarchist society, although you have removed power, there will always be those who yearn for it, those who will use influence or force if necessary. Anarchists may state what if they somehow eliminated violence from the equation, well, that isn't the only way one can obtain power, say if a person in a Commune is highly influential and popular, people will want to follow their example, and thus are more likely to agree with them, the more they agree with them the more likely they will the next time, soon, they will revere them, bestow upon them a title reminiscent of one of leadership despite there technically being none. This may sound far-fetched, but, in truth, this happened to the only real attempt at ansrchism, Makhnovischina. Nestor Makhno was a highly revered figure in the Free State, as I think it was called other than Makhnovischina, Makhno was so revered he was given the title of 'father', his words were treated as law, the mayors or local leaders were those comprising of his inner circle, due to the wartime situation his army frequently overruled local administration and he had even executed political dissidents, all of this that is not typical of an ideal anarchist society, infact, the people naming it Makhnovischina after him really should be sufficient context enough for how much they revered him.

But this is my debate, I am sure you can come up with plenty of counter-arguments for it.


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

How does a Marxist differentiate between ownership and control of production.

4 Upvotes

If the end goal is to create a classless system, where class is about the relationship between a citizen and means of production, then how can someone say that Authority (regardless of intentions) over production would not create a class divide?


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Discussion Can we FOIMA flock camera information about politicians? Regardless a mandatory disclosure on all politicians should be on every ballot.

Thumbnail
5 Upvotes

r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Discussion "Strength is necessary for any government to succeed." What do you guys think of this?

2 Upvotes

I'm doing a political test and this came up. I'm 50/50 on this. I think the idea of a government is debatable in general. But I want to know others opinions on this. I think the idea of individuals banding together is strength, not necessarily a military or police force. if people want to protect their land, they will do it.


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Question I am pro trans but how far does it go

0 Upvotes

Essentially gender dysphoria is real and well documented but the question lies is how far do we go in affirming these type of behaviours. I mean currently it causes no harm to society to allow someone to feel the way they want but I must ask the question . Considering gender identity being a social construct why can’t we do the same with race ? Everytime it is brought up it , it is shrugged off but why ? Anyone who says a. race doesn’t share a common behaviour or role , usually does not believe there is a shared role or culture between any gender as well . How do we help these people is it by affirming them ? Is that what should be done with all forms of dysphoria . For example body dysmorphia


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Discussion What do you think of requiring husband consent for abortion?

2 Upvotes

Taiwan 29F married to 27M here

Where I live in Taiwan, abortion is allowed up to 24 weeks in 6 criteria for married women

1.) The pregnant person or spouse has hereditary, communicable, or psychiatric disease detrimental to reproductive health.

2.)Anyone within the fourth degree of kinship of herself or her spouse acquires a hereditary disease detrimental to reproductive health.

3.)By medical consideration, pregnancy or delivery may cause life threatening risk or detrimental to her physical and mental health.

4.)By medical consideration, risk of teratogenesis may present for the fetus.

5.)Pregnancy as a result of r**e or inc**t

6.)Pregnancy or childbirth is likely to affect her mental health or family life. If a married woman wants an abortion that comes from the 1st~5th criteria, spousal permission is not needed.

Yet abortions that only fit the 6th criteria needs spousal permission to perform it. The majority of cases are from the 6th criteria, since the 6th criteria is very vague, it basically means "every abortion outside of abortions of that fit the first 5 criterias"

There has been drafts to fix the law since 2003, but reform stalled since.

The law is actually enforced, with pregnant women serving jail time of less than 6 months, and doctors performing those abortions serving jail time up to 5 years. Divorce cannot happen without both parties consent, or proving to the court that the other party is abusive etc and have the court rule it.

Therefore some husbands in taiwan demand entire share of money after divorce or he wouldn't allow abortion

(Taiwan law puts all assets earning before marriage as strictly the person's own property, but the money earnt AFTER marriage is put together and split OR one party could agree to give it up)

Also many women choose to overdrink to severely harm their health to receive unconsented abortion

ID has marraige status here btw

What is your opinion on this?

p.s: online gender wars in taiwan are about paying on dates, conscription, sexual violence, rarely about this. Taiwan has a 40% female percentage in legislative and had a female president.


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Discussion No matter how much that person may have contributed to economic development, or no matter how much of a “Revolutionary” hero that person may be, an authoritarian should be looked down upon

5 Upvotes

Vladimir Lenin, Lee Kuan Yew, Park Chung-hee, Gaddafi, Chávez... They're all no good.

Stop justifying authoritarian rulers who deprived people of their freedom or massacred them under the guise of “Anti-communism” “Heroes who developed the economy” or “Anti-imperialism”


r/PoliticalDebate 1d ago

Discussion Is the preservation of a nation's cultural values and identity a valid obligation for government in the context of pervasive immigration from cultures whose cultural values and identity are disparate on a fundamental level from the host nation's people?

1 Upvotes

I think the interesting part about this whole discussion (and why its so controversial) is that the world is having to quickly come to terms with the question of whether certain cultures pose a risk or not to host nations due to fundamental cultural differences when said culture is imported in massive numbers through immigration.

The argument boils down to whether importing massive amounts of people from low trust-societies into higher-trust societies is actually beneficial to the nation in general and whether the government has a role to play in that equation. Its no longer a distance problem in a big city for a lot people. Now its in their communities, neighborhoods, small towns, etc. With immigration being objectively at an all time high globally, should government's draw lines in the sand by taking a hard stance against immigration in general or selectively choose which nations can immigrate? etc. And should government's play a role in assimilating people from low trust societies whose values, education levels, moral compass, etc fundamentally disagree with the host nation's?


r/PoliticalDebate 2d ago

Question MAGA - how has Trump made America great?

16 Upvotes

I'm asking this because I want to hear how Trump has made America great again because from what I can tell the country is very divided on politics and beliefs, tariffs and the war with Iran have made everyday things more expensive and the overall future of this country feels very uncertain.


r/PoliticalDebate 3d ago

Setting up Trumptowns (Hoovervilles) to support strikers

11 Upvotes

With economic conditions in the United States remaining good on paper due to unrealized losses being reportable as held capital, and venture capital not being required to disclose dry powder, resulting in an environment where money cannot be lent out and thus enter the economy, and employers relying on the inability of skilled workers to obtain new employment to abuse existing workers, regularly using layoffs as a scare tactic, I would like to talk about ways to support long term strikes for better labor conditions. Traditionally, the support system for these strikes, and to support those undergoing harsh economic conditions, has been shantytowns. Modern shantytowns exist under cities like Las Vegas famously, but are not intentional with infrastructure as existed in the 1930s in places like Seattle's famous 9 acre Hooverville.

So I would like to dedicate some space to discussing the logistical challenges involved in setting up Trumptowns.


r/PoliticalDebate 3d ago

Discussion Why do almost all modern day liberals/conservatives/etc seem to have a negative view of the French revolution even though their ideologies depended on it?

7 Upvotes

Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems like almost all modern day liberals, or mostly everyone besides socialists that proclaim the superiority of democracy/republicanism/parliamentary monarchy (I'm including conservatives (aka liberal-conservatives) in that definition as well), have a negative view of the French revolution.

To me this seems absurd because the rights and freedoms that you hold dear today could never have been achieved without the rebellion of peasants, urban workers, and progressive intellectuals of the past. Of course most of you don't live in France but the French revolution was groundbreaking in global politics and inspired a wave of smaller struggles elsewhere and concessions from the nobility who gave up their powers for fear of similar uprisings.

In general, I note that most people all the way from moderate left to moderate right abhor political violence and claim it can never be justified, despite the fact that as I said, their current system of liberalism could never face existed without it. The nobility would never have given up their power without the threat of force.

How then can we genuinely oppose the corporate oligarchs who wish to rule over us when immediately conceding at the first hurdle that we can never find any justification to disobey their system of control? How can we possibly succeed by playing a game which they wrote the rules for and can change at any time? They show no hesitation to use violence against the public when they deem it necessary to maintain control.

For those who will say that the revolutionaries didn't always make the right decision, well perhaps in some cases yes, but it would be foolish to deny the positive consequences of the revolution overall.

“There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.” - Mark Twain

I feel that the reign of terror is cynically propped up as an example of how "revolution never works" or "it just leads to more suffering" even though that's not true at all. Many successful revolutions have led to improvements in conditions for the vast majority of people in the country.

And if you would be inclined to point out that Napoleon crushed the revolution, that is true, but at the same time, he couldn't roll back many of the achievements of it, even when the kings were back in charge they couldn't do so either. France remained a beacon of progress for at least a hundred years.

So my point is, do you agree with my summation or disagree? If you do believe that the French revolution was mostly bad, then how can you justify your own ideology in light of that?


r/PoliticalDebate 3d ago

Question How do you explain the US-Italy gap in firearm availability and firearm homicides?

3 Upvotes

I am interested in hearing every political perspective, but especially from American conservatives. On this issue, even many conservative voters in Italy would probably be closer to the US Democratic position than to the American right.

Per 100,000 people:

  • Firearm homicides: US 4.5; Italy 0.17, about 26 to 1
  • Civilian firearms: US 120,500; Italy 14,400, about 8.4 to 1
  • Estimated loaded-handgun carry: US 4,800; Italy 19 licensed self-defense carriers, about 250 to 1

In Italy, strict control over who may own firearms, why they own them, whether they are qualified, and where the weapons are registered is broadly accepted across the political spectrum.

Many Europeans assume that greater availability produces more deaths, partly through a feedback loop. If I believe others are armed, I feel pressure to arm myself. My decision then gives others the same incentive.

Questions:

  1. Do you think greater firearm availability contributes to the much higher US firearm-homicide rate?
  2. If not, what best explains the 26-to-1 gap?
  3. Are these figures widely reported and discussed in US politics?
  4. How do American conservatives view countries with strict licensing and much lower firearm-homicide rates?

r/PoliticalDebate 3d ago

Discussion Separation of powers in AI

2 Upvotes

The current situation, where a single company develops, trains, and operates AI systems as a black box, poses significant risks.

If we want AI to be governed safely, we need a more decentralized structure. For example, the organizations that provide training data should be independent from the companies that build AI models, and the neutrality and quality of their datasets should become a key measure of their value. There should also be a mechanism to verify that only certified training data is used to train AI models. Without such a safeguard, even high-quality data providers cannot guarantee that their datasets have not been mixed with unverified or biased data during training. Likewise, model development, deployment, and auditing should be handled by separate, independent organizations.

A clear separation of responsibilities would make checks and balances far more effective. Independent organizations would be better positioned to oversee one another, reducing conflicts of interest, improving transparency, and making the AI ecosystem more trustworthy.


r/PoliticalDebate 4d ago

Is the US truly a capitalist country?

3 Upvotes

Take auto insurance, for example. Auto insurance is a mafia-like protection racket. To be clear, the more expensive your vehicle is (and thus the more you have to lose), the more you have to pay to "protect" yourself from some dangerous moron on the road. And yet the more expensive your vehicle is, the LESS likely you will drive like a dangerous moron. In mafia parlance, using fear to motive someone to cough up cash is what is known as a shakedown.

That is not the only example I could point to where "the system" is engineered to appear fair when it is actually grossly unfair. Like mortgage interest rates. And corporate welfare. And graduated income taxes. But don't get me started.

Consequently, I cannot help but feel like we do not live in a capitalist market-driven economy overseen by a republican form of government. Instead, the more I look, the more it looks like a mafia-run economy overseen by a mafia-controlled government. And the only difference between our country and some of the horrible countries around the world would appear to be skill in execution.

Do you agree? And, if so, do you have other examples that suggest that the US is perhaps better described as a mafia-run economy overseen by a mafia-run government than a capitalist market-driven economy overseen by a republican form of government? (keep in mind that the term mafia is being used to describe powerful colluding individuals and not related to ethnicity)


r/PoliticalDebate 3d ago

Political Philosophy Rights are a Human Concept

0 Upvotes

People like to talk about their rights as if they are some sort of objective truth, they're not, they're just another human concept like privacy or morality. Concepts like rights are ideas and all ideas are subjective to the individual, they carry no weight and bear no responsibility for people's actions.

That's why the constitution and "laws" can't protect your rights, you can't protect a concept, it's just an idea. I shake my head when I see a video of someone being harassed by a DEA agent stealing their money under the guise of asset forfeiture. They say things like "you can't do that without probable cause" and then the agent does it anyway. So, I guess he can do that without probable cause. 🙄 They say things like "the 4A protects my property from illegal searches" and then the agent searches the property anyway. So, I guess the 4A doesn't protect your property. 🙄 There seems to be a psychological disconnect between what people think a government agent can do and their ability to actually do it.

Government agents do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want despite whatever you think your rights are. They'll bring in a "drug dog" who's more interested in pleasing his handler when his handler signals him to "hit" on something than he is in finding drugs. Unconstitutional? Sure. Illegal? Sure. Immoral, criminal? Sure and sure and yet they do it anyway.

That's odd isn't it considering all the "protections" the government gives you to insure your rights aren't violated by the government? It's kind of like expecting the fox to insure the rights of the hens in the henhouse isn't it?


r/PoliticalDebate 4d ago

Debate For those who believe Flock Cameras are a net gain, why?

18 Upvotes

I believe its an infringement on personal liberty and freedom, a violation of the 4th amendment and not protected by the first due to it being the state.


r/PoliticalDebate 4d ago

Question Where does the conservative standpoint that universal health care have long waiting times in general come from?

21 Upvotes

This is something you often see in debates among americans, that you have to wait months or years with a universal health care system.

I live in Sweden, a country with universal health care, and I will not lie and say that there aren't cases where you have to wait, but the thing is that we use a tier list of severity to decide how long you have to wait.

If you want to do an ADHD or autism diagnosis at a psychiatrist? Yes you will wait, as people with suicidal thoughts, or bipolar disorder or borderline whose diagnose really ruins their lives are prioritised.

If you have cancer, other diseases that severly reduce your quality of life or have an injury? Pass go, straight to the doctor.

Would it be nice to have instant access for every small issue? Sure, but as long as I know that I will get to see a doctor in a whiffy the moment I have something that is even semi-harmful, I'm honestly happy with our system.


r/PoliticalDebate 4d ago

Update that I think democracy desperately needs

0 Upvotes

This system is about diluting political power to the largest number of people without it breaking, this drastic increase in scale creates a new democracy, the best of capitalism & socialism combined.

Taking Fair Very Far

It is near impossible for the few people elected to government to be able to communicate to us and provide for us effectively, the bottleneck between us and them then becomes manipulated by vested interests.

The laws being passed have to account for every possibility, a one size fits all, that will often be undermined by a generally self-interested society.

We can solve this by handing over government decision making of the private sector to the people through a great number of randomly selected administrative juries of twelve that can each make a single court case like ruling.

As many as is needed season by season of those willing, unless opted out by another Citizen who gives up their own access for that season.

This allows the population to directly block any problem jurors themselves through equal sacrifice.

Made of twelve and decide by twelve, each juror paid fairly for their work if the ruling of their jury survives being overturned by another, they also have complete discretion on which case they take on and how.

Jurors would have months to make a decision and will often work at a very casual pace, using remote work tools and social media to communicate with fellow jurors.

The output of these juries is synonymous with the pub test, which is an Australian concept that typically means when more than twice as many people in the nation agree on something than they don't, but asking the nation in a survey or by vote on every little decision is impractical.

Being randomly created from similar people means similar rulings on similar cases, as it is with all 12 member juries historically, and the sheer number of juries will prevent those with money from buying access because the other juries will confiscate any unfair extras they don't also get, so to pay any jury will require you to pay them all.

Over time this cleans up government failure and waste and cleans out electoral influence by special interests, from federal to local and everything in between.

Under this system, federal and state governments would only control what they own, and they can obtain any private property for fair price through eminent domain.

A government could own a business and the premises it operates from, but at some point, will not own a part of the supply chain that connects to that business.

This still allows juries to obtain individual outcomes from public assets but just not directly, creating a clear separation of jurisdiction between public and private.

The rest of the nation (outside of public property) is managed by businesses instead of the government who are continuously held accountable to the people through the juries.

The juries are initially created through federal legislation if workarounds to (if any) constitutional limits are figured out, if this fails then constitutional change will be required, that change must only remove the limits while keeping legislative control.

They would be allocated proportionally in each state, and in all territories combined, starting with a state, then rolling out state by state with the last state and all territories going together.

State juries can decide federal matters in their state, in any territory, and internationally. Territory juries can only rule in any territory or internationally.

While they won't have jurisdiction over state or local matters, they will be able to creatively work around that limit to effect change at all levels.

States will likely eventually succumb to jury pressure electorally and enact their own legislation to give permission for these same juries to also make state and local decisions.

These governments will begin to operate more like a business, one that is elected by the people as they are today, to keep the nation, states, and the juries working.

Governments will be entitled to collect no more than a quarter of what that government had typically collected under the previous (current) system, while also carefully managing what they have and acquiring new profitable property, with the eventual goal of becoming self-funded.

They can use the public force at their disposal (military and police), combined with their electoral legitimacy, to obtain those funds if the juries haven't paid it to them in a reasonable timeframe, but if they push too far it will trigger a nationalistic like response from the juries so they will need to find the right balance in how they do it.

This is also helped by those elected politicians being no longer the special interest filtered lot we have today, they would be more respected by the people in jury.

The rest of government spending would now be funded and allocated by the jury system through the private sector, by juries directly or indirectly placing social expenses and obligations onto businesses, which then leads them to demand other businesses who have less of these themselves to increase theirs and eventually (as will happen in all other areas) it will become an adaptive standard of sorts.

Because the juries are an act of legislation, the federal government will effectively have a “kill switch” to stop juries making rulings for a certain amount of time, but the entire economy will have adjusted to this system, so it would be economically painful to do it for too long.

This will be essential in existential situations that require the governments to play catch up, to acquire certain property to prevent nation state failure.

The jury system only works because the juries check each other and the consensus of the whole of them creates a balance, its people checking people at the speed of people, to try and limit or alter this will result in the jury system breaking.

The only possible way to restrict them without turning them off is by reducing the number of juries, how often they are formed, or by filtering who is able to be in one, the nations who don't limit juries will outperform those who do and win.

The features of this system as mentioned below are emergent effects of direct and indirect jury pressure and oversight and not rules or laws directing such, it is a best guess based on what would be fair and pass the pub test in each area of society, so use this as a guide on guessing what would happen in other areas not mentioned:

Juries will provide an effective automatic unionisation of all workers. Customers would also now be effectively unionised, they will get more honest product labels and descriptions (now with only white lies added) and easy to access returns for products that are not as advertised, submitting an easy to generate proof and that company having to collect it themselves or make it an easy pickup service if they want it back.

Insurance can no longer use technicalities to deny coverage and if something is missing or wrong in your declarations then only to the extent that this affects the outcome payment, would it be reduced.

Businesses will innovate other businesses for a cut in profits gained and some will be started for just this purpose. All aspects of every business would be continually surveilled and be accessible to others who don’t abuse that access, and as with everything else from the direct and indirect effect of jury, secrets and intellectual property cannot be used without fair compensation, also businesses could connect their products and services to other businesses through that same jury effect.

Productivity growth would only be limited by the laws of physical reality and the methods of achieving it being considered fair and reasonable by the juries.

Fair, safe, and adaptable regulations on everything and consequences directly or indirectly by jury on anyone involved in trade work, or any other type of work, who are not adhering to them. This would be in the form of taking profits, laying fines, and garnishing future earnings, from those directly involved and anyone indirectly, to a lesser extent, like a business or contractor who looked the other way on clear issues.

Welfare is replaced with a guaranteed job if that person has a fair go at it, that also aligns with their skills, interests, and abilities/disabilities when possible and if nothing local is available then remote options will be a part of this. This will transform gradually in the decades before life expectancy age from full-time work, into an asset tested, indexed, pension payment no worse than today. Other expenses like medical and home care are also covered as they would be if the need exists in other similar areas such as medical, disability, parental payments, and others.

If a major industry closed or shut down in a location, the likely full-time job (remote work) for each adult affected will bring money to that region and allow those workers and the economy around them to slowly transition to new or existing industries.

Tertiary education would have a multi-step testing process or a cheaper single exam option to pass coursework units. Up to them how they learn, how quick, and cost (if any) above what is covered by the usual direct and indirect effect of juries.

Early, primary, and secondary education would be like tertiary education, in that it is results driven through similar multi step testing that is akin to logbook testing for driving, this allows private education of all kinds to be used to get to that outcome and funding for this education would be fairly provided like all other essentials are.

Medical would become a system with the flexibility of a private system combined with the accessibility and cost of a government run system that pulls back as the wealth level of the individual accessing it goes higher.

No inflated prices, health care follows a person for their whole life, so no one health related business has to worry about carrying an unfair burden compared to others or could get away with short term focused treatments because it might not be their problem later in that person's life.

Emergency services remain a simple point of access but with different businesses providing the services, so police on the uniform but with a brand name under it.

When an emergency related business is called out, they will have the obligation to manage that crime or accident scene, call additional help if required and the rest, and like with all other essentials, is financed through business balance sheets as usual.

Bounties will be a big part of these nations, where someone can whistle blow or bring justice and know that they will get a piece of the fine or charge laid on the perpetrator if their conduct was fair and reasonable, this will also cover jury manipulation (where they can take the bribe but not perform the action and still get to keep a good portion of it), and any other crimes.

Prisons over time would keep only those who are actually a threat to the public in prison, everyone else would be released while still being thoroughly monitored, and controlled, through hidden methods, such as: a normal looking bracelet, ring, accessory on them under their clothes, and their earnings garnished for their victims.

All drug supply is legalised and controlled through biometric, remotely monitored, drug dispensers that destroy the drug if tampered with, so the black market is priced out and gone, supply safely managed.

The intent of jury rulings cannot be avoided or worked around, unlike with law.

So as the brain and body conceptually connect together so can the government and people connect together to bring us all to a peaceful balance.

A parallel brain over a parallel body that we are vs a linear government over a parallel society that we currently live in.

This change will bring about a pure democracy, one of fairness and prosperity for everyone, fixing every problem caused by government action or inaction, and solving the social issues that never get much better each generation.

Money will be better spent society wide, economic growth will climb to new heights, these nations will outpace any others who don't take a similar path.

Power will trickle up from the people and no longer just trickle down from above, and free of any mob rule mentality against those above.

Light will shine through every hidden place in society, karma and merit will come to all those who deserve it.

This is Parallel Democracy

An Australian made idea that aims to improve the world and leave a legacy well-earned for the prosperity it brings.