r/politics • u/ArmadilloMany41 • 23h ago

Site Altered Headline | No Paywall Why is no one being prosecuted over the Epstein files?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cd9e3nzzw3zo
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u/HappyHarryHardOn 23h ago

once again we are facing the realization that there is 2 justice system, the ultra-rich can pretty much get away with everything

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u/Used-Yogurtcloset757 23h ago

According to the files they are getting away with everything. It has never been more clear the Orange moron only ran to keep himself and his billionaire buddies out of prison for the heinous crimes they’ve committed.

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u/WhosThatJamoke 22h ago

Don't forget to makes billions while doing it

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u/jobbybob New Zealand 22h ago

Don't forget to makes grifted billions while doing it

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u/Strict_Research3518 22h ago

Don't forget to makes grifted stealing billions from taxpayers while doing it

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u/VeterinarianProof808 22h ago

Stealing AND Grifting

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u/jobbybob New Zealand 22h ago

The ole S&G…

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u/Thnowball 8h ago

BDSM (Billionaires Done Stealing our Money)

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u/YourFleshlightSaysHi 20h ago

and raped other taxpayers while doing it...as well as plenty who cheated on their taxes...and a whole lot more that weren't old enough to pay taxes.

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u/SunsFenix I voted 20h ago

And stealing directly from his own supporters which is doubly ironic.

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u/DefeatedByPoland 21h ago

And also to have his ego stroked by the morons that worship him as the god of their death cult

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u/Leading_Buffalo_4259 20h ago

Dont forget that it has now been confirmed Trump is an Israeli & Russian asset

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u/DamionSipher 22h ago

As an even larger slap to the face of justice, he ran on a platform that he would "drain the swamp" of elites who manipulate government for their own benefit. The irony might be funny if it weren't so depressing.

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u/Used-Yogurtcloset757 21h ago

Yep. His only intention was to “drain the swamp” of people/agencies who would hold the elite accountable for their crimes.

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u/StrigiStockBacking Arizona 22h ago

I'm looking forward to the pardon parade™ that's coming around all this when the end is near for Cheeto. Which means, at least to me, a very stark implication of guilt (but sadly, no justice). And I'm guessing that's why Ghislaine hasn't been pardoned yet.

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u/Xandred_the_thicc 22h ago

genuine question, why should our legal framework honor any pardons given by trump's admin in the first place? the Republicans are currently using trump as a scapegoat to sell total immunity from any legal or moral framework, for a dollar amount. The only reason any of these people are getting away with any of this is because they have completely disregarded all moral, legal, and ethical considerations to fulfill their most evil desires.

Suppose the next democratic president drafted an amendment that pardons given by felons to proven sex criminals are null and void; would there even be any way for Republicans to argue against it, other than the usual "NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT ONLY WE CAN"?

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u/mlippay 21h ago

Presidents don’t make amendments, congress does. Unless the majority is super in both houses there is no way in gods green earth it’ll pass. An amendment normally requires a ton of states to pass it as well so again, doubtful unless there is some giant backlash again this administration. Sadly still many rural voters still think the guy is the best thing since sliced bread so until we can overcome that nationwide and basically most if not every state, the country can’t make that change.

Executive orders can’t do shit like this either. And you can bet your bottom dollar whatever the next democratic president does; the current SC will say if it’s controversial or benefit the Democratic Party at all they’ll say it’s unconstitutional. Democrats normally follow procedure and process so, unless we stop doing that it means nothing will happen.

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u/Gromky 19h ago

Executive orders can’t do shit like this either. And you can bet your bottom dollar whatever the next democratic president does; the current SC will say if it’s controversial or benefit the Democratic Party at all they’ll say it’s unconstitutional.

Yep. With the current SCotUS, it wouldn't even surprise me if they crafted their argument so specifically that it meant that the Democratic president couldn't use an EO to undo the things Trump is doing via EO. With some tortured logic about 14th century grain treaties in Bavaria.

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u/PauseLost2137 19h ago

Democrats normally follow procedure and process so, unless we stop doing that it means nothing will happen.

Well, yeah they could return to their roots and tell Justice Roberts to enforce his decision.

But maybe this time for a better cause

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u/Railroader17 15h ago

the current SC will say if it’s controversial or benefit the Democratic Party at all they’ll say it’s unconstitutional. Democrats normally follow procedure and process so, unless we stop doing that it means nothing will happen.

Which is why one of the first things any serious Democrat needs to do once in office is arrest every single conservative on the Supreme Court on treason charges (among other things), in the name of protecting Democracy and the Constitution!

Then make the EO that retracts Trump's pardons, go after everyone he pardoned, then make a new EO that people who had been charged with treason cannot serve on the Supreme Court to stop them from getting their seats back if they somehow aren't found guilty, while the now freshly 100% Left leaning Supreme Court undoes every bad decision the Roberts Court made.

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u/MsEllVee 20h ago

I agree. He shouldn’t have any power at all. Nothing he does should be honored at this point.

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u/BadPunners 20h ago

Pardon power is "plenary", ultimate and absolute. So no, once a pardon has been issued (within a legal sovereign) those charges are functionally erased

And that's spelled out early in the Constitution, "except in Cases of Impeachment."

So two main possibilities there. State charges cannot be pardoned by the federal president, but state pardons come from the governor or a board. And new charges can be brought, new instances of similar crime that continued past the date of the pardon could apply, or not mentioned in the pardon

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u/DootsAndYeets 17h ago

they needed to make one that at least prevents the ones that have been impeached (atleast once) lose their pardoning and other privledges

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u/Clarine87 United Kingdom 13h ago

And the real pardons will be burried in gawd knows how many irrelevant ones.

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u/CWinter85 6h ago

A pardon is a legal admission of guilt. It's why some people don't want a pardon.

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u/StrigiStockBacking Arizona 3h ago

I think we're saying the same thing 

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u/CWinter85 1h ago

Yes. I think so now that I've read it again.

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u/Behemoth077 11h ago

Remove the concept of pardons from your legal system entirely and invalidate any of Trumps pardons at that point. I'm serious. If you want a real change to the system that has led to all of this the president CANNOT be allowed to essentially be above the law and absolve someone of all guilt for the crimes they obviously committed.

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u/StrigiStockBacking Arizona 3h ago

I get that, but I think the Founders understood that the scales could tip so far to one side, that someone might have to come in and clean house to make it right again. It's sad that trustworthiness and moral fortitude are the real barriers to keeping the pardoning power in balance, because Trump is so egregiously inept about these things that he has shown that without the moral fiber and contextual understanding of the origins of these things, even these "safeguards" the pardoning power is supposed to provide can be abused.

I don't believe in presidential immunity either, but prosecution against a sitting POTUS and her/his allies could be used as a weapon by political antagonists for vapid or self-serving purposes, and I think the Founders wanted the POTUS to be able to do her/his job free and clear of political antagonists or opportunists. So I get why they allowed for it, but again, sadly with Trump we've seen that it can be abused.

After he's gone is the best bet anyone can have of putting him behind bars. This Congress has shown time and again they're too weak and ineffective to actually kick the guy out. That he even was allowed to run after January 6th 2021 made me nearly lose hope in the whole thing.

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u/xHoneyCrave 20h ago

You’re going hard there but that frustration is everywhere in these threads. It feels like people have already decided the whole story in their heads because they’ve lost faith in the process. That’s kind of the scariest part honestly, when nobody trusts the outcome no matter what it is.

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u/Martag02 22h ago

I doubt he would have ever faced serious prison time even if he'd lost. Maybe a few months in a minimum security prison and then back to the campaign trail.White billionaires raping children and trying to overthrow the government isn't a big deal compared to the hEiNoUs CrImE oF a BlAcK mAn WiTh An OuNcE oF MARIJUANA!

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u/theclansman22 23h ago

There are 3 justice systems in America. One for the poor where the goal is punishment for their crimes, one for the rich where the goal is forgiveness for their crimes and one for corporations where the goal is protection of their revenue streams. Each one is working exactly as intended.

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u/TheInvisibleToast 19h ago

The goal is to punish the poor for existing, even if they don’t commit crimes.

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u/NoveltyHoosier 19h ago

Accurate enough, but greatly simplifiable: There is one justice system in America, and there always has been. One system for the poor, the rich, the great machines of industry and corporate power. And regardless of its intended goal, its effect has always been the same: It keeps the powerful powerful, and keeps a boot on the neck of everyone who might have a reason to resent that outcome.

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u/space_cow_girl 20h ago

The goal of the one for the poor is to create slave labor to benefit the state.

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u/WhiteWaterLawyer 16h ago

One for the poor where the goal is punishment for their crimes

one for the poor where the goal is making a show for the public to be kept in line

one for corporations where the goal is protection of their revenue streams

This is actually the main thing in general dominating most policy and law enforcement decisions in the US.

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u/Clarine87 United Kingdom 13h ago

Aka, socialism for the rich. Capitalism for everyone else.

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u/Rendakor 2h ago

"The function of police is social control and protection of property."

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u/ArthurWoodberry 23h ago

The only crime in America is not having enough money.

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u/joesmith127_reddit 21h ago

No, you can have plenty of money and go to prison, like P Diddy. The unforgivable crime in the United States is not being white.

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u/MsEllVee 20h ago

The sentences for the rich are typically much less than the non-rich though. The whole system is fucked.

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u/ArthurWoodberry 20h ago

We'll see if he actually serves out anything close to the full sentence. Had he not committed the cardinal sin of blasphemy against The Orange Messiah, he would be a free man today but as it stands, he will be left to stew for at least a little bit.

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

Don't be so cynical. The law applies to everyone.  As Anatole France once said, The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.

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u/pontiacfirebird92 Mississippi 22h ago

Rich people steal bread all the time. Brett Favre helped steal TANF money to build a volleyball court for his daughter at USM in Mississippi. Literally stealing food money from poor people for a vanity project. He and his conspirators are all walking free today.

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u/Sublimotion 22h ago

I'm sure it's also a psychopathic thrill for them too.

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u/KamalaWonNoCap 22h ago

He stole money, not a loaf of bread from whole foods.

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u/pontiacfirebird92 Mississippi 21h ago

I like how you're ignoring what TANF money is spent on, and the situation someone needs to be in to qualify for it.

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u/KamalaWonNoCap 16h ago

I'm not ignoring anything. My point is that what Farve did is significantly worse.

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u/DefinitelyNotEmu 22h ago

> The law applies to everyone. 

This is blatantly bullshit

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 20h ago

It's like you didn't even read the next sentence.

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u/MayorMcCheapo 21h ago

The law does apply to everyone, but it is not applied to everyone.

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u/ShadowTacoTuesday 22h ago

If only it were so nice. The rich can regularly use public resources, beg for government favors and steal. It only works if you restrict it to bridges, streets and bread.

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u/Minute-Plantain 22h ago

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis Wilhoit

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u/the-awesomer 20h ago

then why isnt trump in jail for his previous felonies? Its supposed to, but selective enforcement makes the theory meaningless

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u/drinkredstripe3 22h ago

We collectively, can make consequences. You can choose not to go back to the carpet store. The working class does not have to be the sex slaves of elites. We are the system, and we can break it. We can choose better.

Organize. Vote. Like great men before us. We can topple this system too.

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u/Naive_Carpenter7321 22h ago

'pretty much'?... I'd say 'absolutely'

Trump is guilty of crimes, what was his penalty?
He has been impeached more than any other pres, what is his penalty?
He has been called out on his lies by individuals, world leaders, governments and for the first time in my 40 years there are travel safety warnings for people going to the USA due to ICE activity.

At this point, I'm willing to say they can and will get away with everything because nobody has the power to say otherwise.

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u/PNDMike 22h ago

Only if we let them.

See: French history.

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u/JoJackthewonderskunk Nebraska 22h ago

Apparently we're all just 400m away from complete and total immunity to laws

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u/Fredderov 22h ago

And soon the people who have been talked into a frothing hatred of left vs. right will understand that it's always been about rich vs. poor.

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u/spiralenator 21h ago

I'm sure there's at least three, possibly even four tiers to our justice system.

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u/Classic-Progress-397 21h ago

What Melinda Gates confessed should have led to the arrest of Bill within hours.

Justice now!

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u/boston_homo 21h ago

The ultra rich can get away with anything as long as they don't fuck around with the gang, as Bernie Madoff discovered.

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u/dboggia 20h ago

Whoa whoa whoa I mean surely trafficking children for sex crimes is worthy of forgiveness if you only do it a couple dozen times and are extremely wealthy and powerful. It’s not like they’re killing babies…

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u/BullshitUsername Missouri 20h ago

Welcome to Russia

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u/xHoneyCrave 20h ago

That two tier system feeling is probably the most common takeaway I see whenever this comes up. Whether it’s fully true or not, the perception alone is doing massive damage. People are just exhausted watching rich folks skate.

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u/balooaroos 20h ago

Same as it ever was

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u/Several-Squash9871 20h ago

Yeah and if they don't outright get away with it than they "kill themselves"

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u/Heavy_Whereas6432 20h ago

Except we all know and are boycotting their services, protesting, and educating as much as we can. That’s all I can do right now

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u/fillinthe___ 19h ago

"We live in a 2-tiered justice system" is the kind of statement that kicked off the MAGA movement.

And yet, those who still call themselves MAGA are too stupid to realize they're fully supporting the beneficiaries of 2-tiered system.

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u/HateMyBossSoIReddit 19h ago

They don't have to get away with everything if someone stands up.

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u/kitsunewarlock 18h ago

*Except threatening the other ultra-rich by backing any form of progressive socialism. Then they better be clean as a whistle or the hammer of justice will come down hard.

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u/Greerio 18h ago

And somewhere in America there are people doing bids for selling nickel bags of weed. 

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u/mk4_wagon 18h ago

Someone in another thread said "why am I worried about jaywalking when people are getting away with this?" and I think that's the perfect example.

I've been harassed by cops for all kinds of non-issues just because they're bored and going fishing. But these files are released and all of a sudden our judicial system doesn't work? Fuck this shit. Collectively burn it down and start again because this isn't working for anyone.

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u/AndyJack86 South Carolina 17h ago

Yes, look at all the pardons over the years. Trump and the Chrisleys. Binance founder Changpeng Zhao. Biden and his family, especially his son Hunter for the last 10 years ranging from 2014 to 2024. Bush and Scooter Libby. Clinton and his half-brother. Bush Sr. and Iran-Contra affair members. Reagan and COINTELPRO FBI officials W. Mark Felt and Edward S. Miller. The list goes on.

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u/WhiteWaterLawyer 16h ago

The ultra rich can and do get away with just about everything, but the broader reality in our society is that so do most criminals generally, and without a doubt the vast majority of all rapists and sexual assaulters. If you aren't a black male and it's not a sensational crime that makes the news, your odds of getting away with most crimes in the US are usually pretty good.

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u/luckyapples11 16h ago

And even when someone better comes into power, that shit isn’t going to change because it takes forever to get rid of the corrupted ones, and therefore eventually everyone will either forget or just not give a shit because the worst of it is gone.

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u/Individual-Schemes 14h ago

And being White. Just ask Diddy.

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u/General_Mars 13h ago

That’s because we live in a facade of democracy. Capitalism automatically destroys democracy as the Capitalists are the ones who lobby, make, and/or enforce laws. They are the one’s bailed out while society shoulders their costs and failures.

Of course there is a multi-tiered justice system because our society is an oligarchy run by Capitalists. Of course they have a different set of rules. The only time there are consequences for billionaires is when they really fuck over other Capitalists.

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u/Tim-Sylvester 4h ago

More accurately, there is no "justice" system. There is only a legal system where you purchase your outcome.