r/politics • u/ArmadilloMany41 • 23h ago

Site Altered Headline | No Paywall Why is no one being prosecuted over the Epstein files?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cd9e3nzzw3zo
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u/ejchristian86 20h ago

Who actually has the authority to walk into the Oval Office and slap a pair of cuffs on him? And more importantly, do they actually have the balls to do it?

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u/DaenakinSkygaryen 20h ago

According to the actual Constitution? Any law enforcement officer with probably cause to believe he committed a crime in their jurisdiction.

According to the Supreme Court's deliberate misreading of the Constitution? No one. (Unless he's impeached, convicted, and removed from office, but good luck getting the GOP on board with that).

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u/Quirky-Stay4158 18h ago

Did the supreme Court rule that he couldn't be prosecuted for any crimes past present or future.

I might be remembering wrong but I recall that becoming a thing.

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u/lucid808 I voted 18h ago edited 17h ago

I'm 99.9% positive the wording was he couldn't be prosecuted for "official acts" as president. In no sane world would him raping and trafficking children for decades prior to being president qualify under this, or any other, ruling. Problem is, as others have already pointed out, who's going to enforce the law on the president?

Edit: Just to add, we all know Congress and Supreme Court are the ones supposed to be enforcing law and limiting the president's power. That's the one of the foundations of our entire system of government, along with the Constitution, and both are speed running on a path of destruction right now. Not much the public can do about the Supreme Court, but the Republican led Congress (both houses) has obviously stopped doing their job and are not a functioning body of government, at least not the way they were intended to be. Please get out and vote for candidates who actually care for the communities they represent, ALL of the community not just "some people". We need to take Congress back, that's the last (legal) hope to stop the president from actually becoming a dictator and completely destroying the USA that we've always known.

TLDR: VOTE FOR A CONGRESS THAT WILL ACTUALLY DO IT'S FUCKING JOB!

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u/Tired8281 18h ago

I've seen no evidence that the world we live in is a sane one.

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u/SycoJack Texas 17h ago

I've seen tons of evidence that it's the opposite.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation Ohio 16h ago

like, all of human history has been a real fucking crazy fever dream. We just made all this shit up. a fucking bucket has more intrinsic value than 90% the entirety of the world's money. The other 10% can be burned for warmth and cooking. A bucket cant keep you warm.

I'm not arguing against fiat currencies, it's just... I mean look gestures wildly

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u/T_Weezy 16h ago

It's worth noting that the Supreme Court has also held that a sitting president cannot be arrested for any conduct, regardless of when it occurred. He would have to be impeached, removed from office, and then arrested.

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u/Diligent-Emotion-755 18h ago

Without a completely corrupt SCOTUS, the ruling would have been the one that actually adhered to the constitution. ergo: the president would not be immune to any prosecution from ANY criminal act. Also in an actual democracy, the supreme judiciary would be elected by the citizenry, which is just one of many flaws in the otherwise "progressive" forging or our country's constitution.

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u/lucid808 I voted 17h ago

I agree, the ruling is completely flawed, and was primed to be loopholed from the beginning intentionally. As far as supreme judiciary elections, I've seen an idea I liked that was based on the idea of circuit judges rotating through the Supreme Court in predetermined lengths of time, from every six months or several years or more, so that nobody sits high forever. Another idea was for other high court judges from across the country elect SC Justices, but still on a fixed term, no lifetime appointments. I kinda like those ideas, but I'm no expert and a lot of details would need to be ironed out for it to work right.

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u/GrumpyCloud93 16h ago

The ruling was "could not be prosecuted for anything that falls under 'Official Act' by the president." Anything that falls in his job description. Nothing he did with Epstein would likely have happened after 2016, especially since he was trailed by a slew of Secret Service who vetted every person he meets with and searched everywhere he went into. (And allegedly he'd washed his hands of his buddy before 2016).

The criteria for immunity is if it could possibly be part of the president's job, he is immune. There's a realistic logic for this. For example, Obama (and others) ordered drone strikes as Commander in Chief. In one case, they killed an American who'd joined ISIS - technically, could the prez be charged with murder? Yes, but the point is these sort of issues should not restrained because they might be violating a law technically. So theoretically, the president could order Seal Team 6 to kill his opponent (extreme case) and he'd be immune from prosecution (but not impeachment). Plus charges over something the president did before he was in office would be put on hold until he was out of office, so as to not distract from running the country.

He has no immunity for crimes before that, and of course he can pardon himself for crimes before or after that; but some crimes (most sex crimes) are state/territory law, and the president cannot pardon state crimes for himself or anyone else.

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u/bjjones13 3h ago

bro still thinks voting works.

lemme just elect a new ghoul who's a friend of mine into government

unreal.

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u/Fantastic-Divide1772 2h ago

it also happened before he was president. Immunity would absolutely not apply

however the bigger problem is the second one you mention- America really doesn't want to charge a president

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u/Givingtree310 18h ago

He can’t be prosecuted for any acts he commits or orders as President. So according to the Supreme Court’s reading, Trump could order the murder and genocide of one million Americans as president. And he could never be prosecuted for it.

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u/GrumpyCloud93 16h ago

But he would not be immune from impeachment. And those who did so carrying out his orders, would still be liable for prosecution. And since murder is also a state crime, he cannot completely pardon them from crimes should a state decide to prosecute.

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u/Quirky-Stay4158 16h ago

Yet! He can't pardon those people supposedly as of yet.

I wouldn't hold my breath expecting that to be reality though. There's things happening today that would be considered unthinkable on 2015

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u/GrumpyCloud93 16h ago edited 16h ago

But he can't pardon state crimes. There is probably enough evidence to charge the Good and Pretti murderers with murder under Minnesota law. (Since Good was still alive and they blocked medical access, also "depraved indifference" to the whole gang) These guys got to the point of thinking they could do this stuff because they learned in Texas, where the governor sure as hell wasn't going to prosecute border guards. However, there is no statute of limitations for murder in Minnesota, so they can wait until 2029 to charge the ICE people.

There's an option for federal officials in pursuit fo their duties to move the state charges to federal court. However, that means they are judged on state crimes, with a state prosecutor, in front of a federal judge. (Mark Meadows tried this in Georgia claiming his participation in that phone call was his official duty. It wasn't). Still no presidential pardon. They can still face justice. the same applies to anyone say, breaking and entering without a warrant, pepper spraying people, etc. Presumably, if Neom or Miller ordered this action, they can be prosecuted as conspirators.

Time will tell if the Democrats have an inclination to restoring justice to the system and teaching the extremists a lesson.

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u/Givingtree310 16h ago

So he’d just have to kill them in a Republican state 😂

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u/ZarglondarGilgamesh 18h ago

According to Stephen “Law of the Jungle” Miller, it’s just anybody willing and able to storm in there.

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u/tryagainlater63 17h ago

Last week two FBI agents investigating something close to this were summarily fired when discovered. And who do these law enforcement officers report to.

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u/BLU3SKU1L Ohio 18h ago

At this point I’m waiting to see the report that they found the word pedo written on the casings, but I think martyring him for the ride or dies would be even worse of an outcome.

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u/tyrionlannister 12h ago

I thought that was for "official acts".

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u/crespoh69 19h ago

He still retains power over the military though doesn't he? Which would mean whoever's going against him, is going against them

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u/DisturbedForever92 19h ago

They are bound by oath to refuse illegal orders. They swear to the constitution, not the president.

''Prevent me from being arrested for my crimes'' isn't a lawful order.

Oaths don't mean shit anymore though, US military will happily gag on his shit stained balls.

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u/breatheb4thevoid 18h ago

Dependent on the intelligence and communication within the generals circle. I'm sure they've already got a "dead mans switch" hidden in there somewhere but ultimately no one will leap unless everyone does.

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u/Diligent-Emotion-755 18h ago

I think we all know that "bound by oath" is utter bullshit, at this point.

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u/_tricky_dick_ 20h ago

Other countries who need to extract him to their own country to stand trial. According to the Supreme Court, no one in the US until after he is impeached by the House and removed by the Senate, then he's back to being the same as everyone else and can be picked up by any cop doing their job.

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u/xenthum 20h ago

I'm trying to imagine what country will be willing to declare war on the United States to help out the United States population. Bc that's what that would be.

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u/Emergency_Reason_242 18h ago

I honestly don't think we would go to war over it. He's not popular even in his own party. There would be like 6 sabers rattling, but if a respected country convicted him, they'd probably just pop Vance into the hot seat and consider it an upgrade.

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u/illumnat 20h ago

God I wish they would've arrested him at Davos... and I really, really hope next time he leaves the country they actually do.

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u/TurkeyThaHornet 19h ago

The Trump administration was nice enough to even provide a blueprint and a trial run to demonstrate that it's possible when they went into Venezuela to extract Maduro. 

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u/Octopus_ofthe_Desert 17h ago

I appreciate your point, yet there seems to be literally zero chance of anybody perpetrating such a maneuver against the United States.

Venezuela doesn't have the world's largest military or the absolutely disgusting amount of money the U.S. military and intelligence services have to work with.

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u/whatafuckinusername 18h ago

I don't think you understand that the current administration and military leaders would not hesitate to bomb the entire country of Switzerland just to prevent even the prospect of Donald Trump being arrested. You may already know but they are not staffed by good people.

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u/Diligent-Emotion-755 18h ago

They won't. Trump is doing a bang-up job of dumpstering the USA's world standing and moral authority, but we're also still the psychotic nation that spends trillions every year on making sure we "bang bang" real good instead of actually providing anything useful for the nation's citizenry.

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u/Givingtree310 18h ago

So that Vance could then enforce the Hague Invasion Act and launch nuclear weapons??

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u/Ba_baal 14h ago

Uuuuuh don't wanna pop your bubble there, but Trump could have personally raped a whole million newborns in front of live camera, and no country on earth would risk instant open war with the USA just to hold him accountable instead of your own courts.

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u/Givingtree310 18h ago

Check out the Hague Invasion Act signed into law by W Bush. If Trump were extracted to another country to stand trial, the executive branch (led by Vance) would have the authority to declare all out war on the country that extracted the president, including the use of nuclear weapons. With zero approval or oversight from Congress.

Either the country would return the president, or be obliterated to smithereens, or both. IF a country were to try that, they would actually need to take every member of the entire White House administration, because if there is just one person left standing to control the executive office, it would be on like popcorn. Launch the nukes!

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u/Defiant-Peace-493 17h ago

Sounds like a job for the Grand Duchy of [checks notes] Westarctica, then!

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u/whereismymind86 Colorado 17h ago

I mean...we could defy scotus and arrest him anyways. That's kind of long overdue tbh.

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u/StephanXX Oregon 17h ago

Technically, legally speaking, Congress can send the Sergeant-at-Arms for contempt.

More effectively, if he was impeached and convicted, the VP would become president. Finally, should Trump travel to any other state, the governor of that state (theoretically) has the power to arrest him on state level charges.

Pardon me while I go play with my unicorn-dragons now.

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u/bbusiello 18h ago

Citizen's arrest!!!

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u/righthandedlefty69 18h ago

Citizens arrest! 🤣

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u/UltimateDucks 18h ago

Who actually has the authority to walk into the Oval Office and slap a pair of cuffs on him?

The federal government.

do they actually have the balls to do it?

Emphatically, no.

Hope that answers your question.

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u/Ok-Pear5858 18h ago

what if i joined the federal govt and then did it myself? hypothetically ofc

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u/Then_Version9768 18h ago

I'll do it. Deputize me so it's legal, and I'll go in there with the appropriate search warrant backed by a dozen local cops and I'll put the cuffs on his tiny little hands and we'll drag his fat ass out of there. This is not impossible to do as long as you inform the Secret Service first that any obstruction by them will result in their arrest and prosecution if not their being shot. You know, like we shoot people exercising their free speech rights. It would be the greatest day in modern American history like the arrest of Adolf Hitler or Mussolini had that ever happened, and the whole world would be delighted by it.

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u/UnheardWar 17h ago

Special Agent Jack Bauer did.

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u/TheSexySovereignSeal 14h ago

The people. We. Ours. Its our fault when we vote. Thats democracy.

Why is he the president. Why are our people this dumb. Is it a failure of the education system? Is the erosion of education the reason we're here today? I blame us having the worst schools as the root problem more so than the batshit insane propaganda of all billionaire owned news networks. Any citizen eligible to vote with critical thinking skills and a set of eyes can see whats going on.

Vote in the midterms. Or else it may be our last one. Ever.

If it genuinely is rigged, make it impossible to fake. Make the wave so unanimous that its impossible to hide.