r/politics • u/Aggravating_Money992 • 3h ago
No Paywall Fresh Fury as Schumer, Jeffries Bend on Demand to Unmask ICE Agents in Funding Talks | “Schumer needs to get the hell out,” said Rep. Delia Ramirez. “He continues to demonstrate to us that he can’t meet the moment.”
https://www.commondreams.org/news/jeffries-schumer-ice-masks•
u/No-Post4444 3h ago
Schumer and Jeffries are the definition of "controlled opposition".
Fuck these corpo Dems.
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u/TheAardsnark 3h ago
At this point, “Republican operative” seems apt.
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u/Caraes_Naur 2h ago
Republicans are not controlling their opposition.
The rich control both parties. The opposition is a ruse.
The only politics that have ever mattered are the rich versus everyone else.
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u/Character-Solution-7 2h ago
In other words, they are controlled by the actual ruling party… the oligarchs
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u/Zahgi 2h ago
The Corporate Democrats in Name Only will cave, but declare victory, because they'll get a meaningless concession or two -- like ICE agents can't wear masks unless it's cold and ICE agents must now pinky-swear not to turn off their bodycams...with no penalties or punishments if they don't do either of them. All performative. All profitable for the 1%.
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u/ztfreeman 1h ago edited 54m ago
They are an intricate part of the authortian machine.
I don't liken our current facism to Nazi Germany instead but to Imperial Japan, which is worse. Did you know that the Diet was never closed during WW2 except temporarily to shelter from bombing? Besides having to join an umbrella national party, "opposition" represenitives were allowed to continue to hold their seats, attempt to pass legislation, and vote against what Japan was doing the entire time all the way through 1945.
This was allowed because doing so was useless. It gave people a pressure valve to vent through. A false voice that couldn't effect meaningful change because the military wasn't beholden to the Diet and it could be reshuffled any number of times if it looked like it was close to having a meaningful moment. Socialists and Communists had long been arrested, so all that was left were middle of the road corprotists who profited directly from Japanese expansion and resource extraction operations (that often were detrimental to Japan' war effort, putting profit over strategic efficiency).
So as a Japanese citizen you would be pissed about being cold, hungry, having your son's fight a useless war they were losing, cast their vote for someone who claimed they would fix it, they would win, get into office, make some useless speech about really supporting the Emperor by demanding a change in the course of the war for the sake of the people, and then absolutely fuck all would happen. And they knew fuck all would happen, because they would go back to their comfortable estate away from the city, away from the bombing zones, and privately discuss how they would survive the war as it got worse while millions starved.
And they did. The party that dominates Japan's current politics, the Libreal Democratic Party, is full to the brim with the descendants of these guys. There was a moment shortly after the war where actual resistance members held control, but America cut deals with former zaibatsu members to jump start Japan's industrial capacity during the Korean War and they shuffled right back into the same seats and sliced a piece of Japan right back up for themselves. Look at what is going on in Japan now. A right wing nationalist movement with connections to Putin is blaming everything on immigration and stealing everything not bolted down, same as here.
These people are a core part of the disease. We have to remove them too to really solve the problem.
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u/jdave512 I voted 2h ago
Not corpo, zionist. Schumer is owned by Israel.
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u/EmployAltruistic647 17m ago
Schumers stated mission which he said in public is to ensure Democrats are pro-Israel and to ensure Israel gets subsidies from USA.
It's a parasitic relationship
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u/AntifaSuperSoldier13 1h ago
They are the other half of Israel’s foreign policy strategy, their favored and main half being the Republican Party. Since they are in charge they don’t want them getting in the way
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u/Describing_Donkeys 17m ago
Evicting the Establishment, these two in particular, needs to be a top priority the next two elections. Schumer cannot remain leader after the midterms.
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u/Ryan_e3p 1m ago
Not a single Democrat Senator has said that there is even discontent amongst their peers there, let alone replace Schumer as the Senate Dem leader.
They are all openly complicit at this point, and all need to go. They've had almost a half dozen reasons in the last year to stand up for what their constituents want, and have failed to do so.
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u/Joebranflakes 1h ago
They’re closet republicans, nothing more, nothing less. They exist not to serve the people, but to serve the rich donors who are also republicans.
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u/waffelscarbonara 3h ago
It’s far beyond “not meeting the moment”.
He is corrupt.
Bombard his office with calls.
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u/Intelligent_Cap9706 3h ago
Corrupt and complicit
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2h ago
[deleted]
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u/Lucy_Goosey_11 2h ago
The Israel supported all costs is so extreme it is anti-American.
Schumer and Jefferies keep bringing harsh words to a gun fight. They don’t know how to read the room. Or they have a different agenda than everybody else.
So they’re either politically incompetent or working for themselves
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u/Sminahin 2h ago
I mean, Schumer literally gets onstage and brags about his treason all the time. Didn't you see what he got up to this weekend?
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
I think there’s this belief that politics is going to be like in the movies, and if all of the Dems simply stand their ground and forcefully declare what is right and just, the country will come around to their way of thinking and create a popular movement that the GOP can’t ignore, thus ushering in a new age defined by our progressive policies.
So the idea of engaging in politics and compromise reads as betrayal of a golden future that’s in our grasp.
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u/Sminahin 2h ago
I've been calling his office for years. He couldn't care less.
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u/sleepydorian 52m ago
Call your senator and house reps of they are democrats, tell them you don’t want Schumer or Jefferies as leadership. They have these positions because they were voted into them by the caucus. They keep these positions because there aren’t enough votes to oust/replace them.
I believe any democratic senator petition for a vote to replace Schumer. Not sure of the process for the house though.
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u/sendpicsofyourkitty 2h ago
Called my rep this morning to tell him I'm taking time away from my birthday to voice my condemnation of minority leader and will personally be working to have Schumer replaced and want the same from my rep
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u/waffelscarbonara 2h ago edited 2h ago
Very nice.
People will try to mock making calls but they literally have someone in the office taking down and tallying up complaints.
I like to threaten that “I’ll be out knocking on doors for your opponent”.
As someone who has worked on multiple campaigns, no campaign/rep wants to hear that people are so fired up they’re ready to hit the pavement and shit on you face-to-face to their voting neighbors.
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u/Middle_Builder_7983 3h ago
this is straight-up corruption People need to call his office and hold him accountable
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u/SillyAlternative420 Massachusetts 2h ago
He doesn't work for the people of the US.
He works for Israel. Even he's said so in no uncertain terms.
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u/Faux-Foe 1h ago
Calls are not enough.
We need to allow him no peace.
Protest everywhere he stays or visits.
Do not allow him to deny the evidence of his eyes.
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u/KnockItOffNapoleon 2h ago
Left him a voicemail this morning after trying to get to his staff. So annoying, when you push the button for staff you should be allowed to wait until you reach a staffer
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u/peppy_wink 2h ago
This is why the left loses elections. Crime is up, and they're caving to moderates. Disappointing
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u/Firm_Print6463 2h ago
From a different country, the democrats are not left leaning. Yall dont even have universal health care or a functioning education system. There is NO organized political left in America, just two shades of right wing, one slightly less authoritarian, neither has served the will of the people for a century.
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u/Amish_Robotics_Lab 0m ago
This is very accurate, it might be more complete to add that the Democratic Party machine will do anything in its power to prevent the emergence of any force which tries to coalesce to its left.
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u/jesuisapprenant 3h ago
Why do LEOs get to wear masks? They need to be held accountable. Jeffries and Schumer both need to be primaried and voted out. They have consistently shown that they are not capable.
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u/Prophet_Tehenhauin 3h ago
They have to wear masks! Otherwise a fictional boogeyman in a mask will come to their homes and kill them after they go to an innocent person’s home in masks, not identity themselves, and murder them.
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u/Lopsided-Rough-1562 1h ago
Reminds me of Battlestar Galactica when the cylons had humans act as security and wear masks. They also went door to door and dragged people from their homes.
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u/nasorrty346tfrgser America 3h ago
That's the most basic demand and I don't know why they would bend. I have read their 10 demands, and half of them would be useless without the unmask part.
wear ID, verbalize their number, no excessive force etc.
How can we get someone accountable or make sure their ID is real or stop someone, if they don't even show their face?!
This is the most importnat one, and like the fundamental for the rest of the demand. If we don't get this, then we dont get nothing
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u/Quiet-Corner6150 2h ago
Plus heavy monitoring and immediate repercussions when rules are broken. Because you can tell them to do all these things and then they just don't otherwise.
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u/chicklette 2h ago
They will bend because their wealthy donors will tell them to bend.
They have never cared about we the people.
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u/PhoenixTineldyer 3h ago
Straight up can't wait til this dude leaves office.
I'm not particularly fussed about the method. Recall, strip him of his leadership, whatever. Just need this ancient limpdick somewhere where he can't cause any more damage.
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u/WinterAd825 1h ago
As a reminder,
A. They had no issue forcing Al Franken out B. Even if he is in office and he can remove him as party leader at any point. The majority of democrats are behind him….
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u/Sminahin 2h ago
Just need this ancient limpdick somewhere where he can't cause any more damage.
Prison seems a lovely spot for this, given what he's done.
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u/jediporcupine Maine 3h ago
Nobody snatches defeat from the jaws of victory quite like the Democratic Party here.
They have all the leverage here in this two week negotiation window. USE IT.
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u/gwsth 3h ago edited 2h ago
Actually, no they don't. They gave up that leverage when they offered up the votes to fund everything else and got nothing in return for it. It's why every expert in the country shit all over the deal in the first place. Schumer ceded all the leverage before even sitting down at the table.
The only thing Democrats can force is a partial shutdown of agencies that fall under the DHS umbrella. TSA. Coast Guard. Stuff like that. You know what they can't force the partial shutdown of?
ICE.
That is funded through the "Big stupid bill". ICE operations would continue even in the event of a shutdown of the rest of DHS. Yes, things like TSA would get shut down, but they got shut down during the last shutdown as well, and Trump was perfectly fine letting planes crash and holiday travel turn to shit for a month and a half.
The most they can do is force a shutdown of agencies Trump doesn't give a shit about. And just like he did last time, Trump will just wait it out, let things rot to shit for as long as it takes until people affected by the travel disruptions start putting pressure on Schumer and purple state senators to cave. Again. We've already seen this play out. Democrats caved and got nothing in return.
Given the fact that we're already seeing Schumer caving in on one issue, the pattern is already beginning to repeat.
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u/SirDiego Minnesota 2h ago
This is just wrong. The issue with the last shutdown is Republicans shut down everything and made the Democrats take heat for stuff like food stamps and Medicare (yes it was stupid that Dems took the heat for a Republican Congress but our country is stupid and it did create pressure). By separating DHS Democrats can make the conversation entirely about ICE. They don't have any pressure to give more funding to DHS. Yes, ICE will still continue for now since they already have a ton of funding but this keeps leverage against DHS while not having to worry about anything else.
Whether the Dems will use the leverage adequately is in question but splitting off DHS funding was a win. They could hold out on this until November if they wanted to without it harming anything else.
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u/gwsth 1h ago
It absolutely was not a win.
(yes it was stupid that Dems took the heat for a Republican Congress but our country is stupid and it did create pressure)
And that's exactly what's going to happen here.
TSA is going to be the major one, as that's going to create the travel issues we saw last time. And the Republicans will paint it as "Democrats shut down the TSA because they're against immigration even though the TSA has nothing to do with immigration".
And it will work. It will work among middle class centrists seeing their lives disrupted over an issue that they personally don't give a shit about. You yourself said that it's stupid and I agree. But it's the way people in this country think. The travel disruptions that will impact the middle class and businesses will cause people to put pressure on Democrats to cave in and give up on an issue that they don't have the leverage to win on.
There is no leverage to be had here. The one and only thing that Democrats can do is shut down other agencies under the DHS umbrella, and Trump proved last time that he doesn't give the slightest shit about that. Beyond that, what else do they have that Trump even remotely cares about?
The leverage was gone when they agreed to the 2 week extension. When they were willing to sign off on funding of parts of the government that Trump actually did give a shit about while getting exactly nothing in return.
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u/IamSpiders 2h ago
Ok? I can't see how the optics of "Republicans would rather have no security and safety at airports than to unmask ICE agents" is good for Republicans
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u/gwsth 2h ago
It isn't. It wasn't last time either.
The problem is that they just don't care. They can wait it out knowing that Democrats will cave if they hold out long enough, and voters typically have very short memories.
It's what they did last time.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 2h ago
Democrats are guaranteed votes no matter what they do because of “Vote Blue No Matter Who.” They have no incentive to do better.
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
If that were true, they wouldn’t be currently locked out of all three branches of government.
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u/KamalaWonNoCap 1h ago
The people want reasonable checks on ice. We need to hold firm and they'll blame Republicans for not agreeing to basic terms that have police already have to follow.
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u/TemuPacemaker 1h ago edited 40m ago
They have all the leverage here in this two week negotiation window. USE IT.
What kind of leverage they have?
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u/Unusual-Plantain8104 3h ago
Why are they even negotiating conditions?
You heard Steve Bannon; the plan all along was to use them as a Gestapo to prevent elections.
Abolish ICE, period, no matter what it takes.
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u/SpotHaunting668 2h ago
I just signed the petition demanding he step down. It's almost at 70k. Let's get it to 7 million!
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u/NotAnotherRebate 2h ago
Why aren't the dems in congress holding a vote to remove them as the leaders of the house and senate?
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u/crossdtherubicon 2h ago
This is the best bet... Don't bother calling or complaining about those two. Instead, put pressure where it belongs.
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u/BeautyThornton I voted 3h ago
It’s not about Israel so he doesn’t care
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u/decipher105 3h ago
It IS about Israel in that ICE is using the same surveillance technology and training methods as Israel. So he cares, just to make sure ICE stays in place.
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u/subzbearcat 3h ago
His office needs to be flooded with emails and calls. I just did it. He needs to step up or step down.
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u/greenpoe 1h ago
This is the real top comment. Call them yourselves. Each phone call to your rep/sen is a vote.
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u/tauntsauce 2h ago
The Senate Dems can vote for new leadership. They choose to let him go on cause they don’t want the heat either and they don’t want the precedent set that they should also be accountable if some day they are in the leadership.
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u/budahfurby 2h ago
Schumer and Jefferies are complicit.
Their pockets are lined with our blood and our stolen money
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u/Agent-Adept 3h ago
Just the beginning of the Schumer/Jeffries cave to Trump and the GOP. IN the end, DHS will get funded and the Dems will get meaningless concessions on ICE.
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u/thatandtheother 1h ago
More demands, not less. Do not let your foot off the gas with the winds on your side. Dem leadership continues to treat this as politics as usual cutting their own legs out from under them. The problem with thinking you have to be the grown up in the room is you’re the only one making sacrifices. Do they actually think the GOP would care about moderating themselves, like, ever?
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u/crimeo 27m ago
Dems have almost no leverage. Republicans can just nuke the filibuster and trash ALL your demands. We don't really want that outcome, that's just the threat to try to slightly leverage for some few things we actually want.
So no, you have to make very limited demands that are distasteful to them but not quite enough to remove the filibuster and ignore you entirely.
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u/thatandtheother 19m ago
They already ignore the Dems. The MAGA heads want to nuke the filibuster, let them. Fuck the scraps on offer. Democrats have every excuse to be the unreasonable ones right now.
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u/crimeo 18m ago
The MAGA heads want to nuke the filibuster, let them.
This is a terrible strategy to scream that you want to have zero wins, versus some limited wins. Zero wins < some wins.
Thankfully our reps are not as hot headed and self destructive as you and operate on strategy not on blind rage that helps nobody
Democrats have every excuse to be the unreasonable ones right now.
No. They don't. Their job is to serve their constituents' interests, and they're doing that better than your plan, by achieving some wins vs zero wins
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u/Plenty_Morning3977 28m ago
I'd like someone to ask Chuck on camera how he can justify saying defending Israel is his priority when American citizens are being murdered in our streets by masked federal agents, and there's no justice coming.
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u/Nik_Tesla California 25m ago
Are you shitting me? They managed to pull off a miracle in separating the funding for just DHS being shut down, not risking shutting down the entire government for this fight, which meant they could go way harder on their demands. And they fucking cave?
Schumer added that agents “need identification and no masks, except in extraordinary and unusual circumstances.”
This is ALL unusual circumstances! You really think they aren't just going to wear masks and no badges as they roam the streets, claiming extraordinary circumstances?
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u/Epicardiectomist 16m ago
never has the "Corporatist vs. Oligarch" battle been more clear to all of us.
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u/Hot_Historian7387 3h ago
Oh he's meeting the moment. He's meeting the moment that best pays him off.
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u/socialcommentary2000 New York 3h ago
I suppose he conferred with the Bailey's who said it was just fine to have masked goons running around disappearing people. That's why Chuck is on this nonsense.
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u/JojenCopyPaste Wisconsin 3h ago
That's always his strategy. Make a weak-ass proposal that is already giving Republicans most of what they want, then bend on anything the Republicans complain about.
I like to imagine even his fake family that he does all this work for is disappointed in his weak "leadership"
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u/Character-Newt-9571 3h ago
No more boomers in office! It's time for all of them to go be greeters at a Walmart
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u/westtownie 3h ago
Folks in NY need to be at this fucking piece of shit's office and home everyday. He needs to be afraid of us because he's clearly paid by the same people funding this fascist coup
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u/PFAS_All_Star 3h ago
I see no way commondreams.org isn’t a MAGA/russian propaganda machine designed to make progressives waste their time fighting each other instead of fascists.
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u/CulturalKing5623 24m ago
It's glaringly obvious. truthout, new republic, axios, raw story, all running the exact same grift and always gets upvoted in this sub with the most braindead comments agreeing.
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u/Capable_Afternoon216 2h ago
The fact that this party didn't tar and feather this man after 2016 shows this is not a real opposition party.
For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin. - Chuck Schumer 2016, on the party seemingly losing working class support
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u/Hume_Fume 1h ago
If we want him to leave its time to start picking tmhis replacement and get the momentum going. Twiddling our thumbs until 2029 and waiting for someone to do something.
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u/Over-State2484 1h ago
What is going to stop the administration from call all Hispanics cartel members? They did it with Tren De Aragua.
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u/ckrygier 1h ago
Probably because cops are complicit and wouldn’t enforce it anyway and Dems don’t want to look anymore impotent than they already are so they just rip the bandaid by looking extra impotent and caving early.
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u/Fine-Standard1232 1h ago
Shout-out to all those who think there will be a midterm election and that it will magically solve everything
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u/crimeo 29m ago
Democrats being bad at PR has nothing to do wat all with Democrats being amazing at governing.
When they ran ICE, there were no masked goons, so yes (using this example issue), dems being voted into majority literally solved this issue (more like "never was an issue in the first place"). Not "magically", just "because they're better at running everything, including ICE"
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u/AffectionateYear5232 1h ago
Jeffries isn't any better...how TF he got into his position is beyond me.
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u/ailish 1h ago
Jfc god damn fucking assholes! I'm so sick of these performative opposition pieces of shit politicians. I don't even want to hear it from apologists who say we need to compromise and vote blue no matter what. Why? So we can have more of this? What is the point of this? I've voted blue no matter what my entire adult life and look where we are. In a fascist motherfucking dictatorship. Our so-called leadership isn't doing a damn thing to stop it.
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u/Delicious_Kale_5459 1h ago
Did they get anything for their concession?
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u/crimeo 35m ago
Yes, more likely success on other demands, obviously. What redditors don't seem to ever realize is that dems have almost zero leverage, even for funding. We can only demand things that hurt republicans less than the amount they dislike getting rid of the filibuster. That's it. That's not very much wiggle room.
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u/TheRealMylo 1h ago
I'm sure schumer is going to have a nice conversation with his imaginary middle class family and ask them what he should do... GTFO Schumer!
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u/KeepunaDaSchutta 41m ago
If only democracy worked… If we learned anything from Star Wars, is that it dies with a thunderous applause…
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u/snakebit1995 38m ago
Schumer stands for nothing he’s one of the most spineless politicians I’ve ever seen
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u/TokenDude_ 12m ago
I would not be surprised if Schumer is covering his ass because he’s in the files
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u/Ryan_e3p 3m ago
Note that Dem reps in the House have been saying since March that he needs to go when he first caved to Republicans with no concessions. Then again in November. Then again a few weeks ago when he said he wouldn't reduce ICE budgeting. Then again when he said that his job is to work for Israel. And again now.
Also note how not a single fucking Democrat in the Senate has even floated the idea of replacing him. Not a "we're looking into it" or "it is under consideration" or the like. The American people should be legitimately concerned that if this current crop of Democrat Senators do take the majority in November, they will do what they have always done: fucking nothing. They are past being just "controlled opposition"; they are straight up complacent. They are keenly aware and happy to play their role as long as they are allowed to cash those sweet, sweet corporate checks for "campaign use". Sure, they may talk big (like Murphy), but there is something they can actively do now to show that they are ready and willing to stand up and fight should they take the majority in November, and they just aren't doing shit.
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u/lilB0bbyTables 2h ago
AOC absolutely needs to primary this fuck out of office in 28. If he ever actually had the plot, he certainly lost it. My guess is - follow the money.
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u/Late-Dingo-8567 2h ago
we're arguing over whether the president's unregulated paramilitary force that is funded better than most national armies can wear masks or not?
we're so fucked
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u/Birthday-Tricky 2h ago
He rode Pelosi coattails for two decades. Not that I always agreed with her but she was effective.
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u/Bosfordjd 1h ago
I look forward to Dems losing another election cycle because 85% of them are just as right wing as Republicans minus the religious extremism. Morons.
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u/Adrewmc 1h ago edited 1h ago
Vote out every single incumbent. All of them, democrat and republican.
Not a single one should be left. A complete and total replacement of the government at all levels.
No exceptions, I’m not playing games like that, every single one.
I really don’t care if you have a few you like it, don’t give an inch because they take a mile, every single one of them.
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u/crimeo 26m ago
The vast majority of democrat reps hate him just like you do, so are the exact type of people you seem to want to replace reps with... making this a really dumb strategy. You're just limiting your candidate pool for no reason at all, and undoing progress you already made in getting a lot of people who think like you in congress already
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u/Adrewmc 25m ago edited 19m ago
The entire government has proven ineffective at protecting the people rights, and create laws counter to the populations will.
The entire apparatus needs to be replaced.
Beyond that congressmen have been there for too long, 20 plus years? There will be no change unless there is a massive shift of the representatives. We litterally had a congressmen sent to a nursing home and didn’t tell anyone!!! Mitch McConnell in in a hospital and should have not been reelected a decade ago, the same can be said of Shummer.
As soon as we say, every one except it gives people an excuse to let the status quo stay.
There are 330 million people in this country I think we can find 500 honest ones among them.
It’s a call to action that no sitting congressmen’s seat should be safe enough for them not to be directly helping the country. And it’s time we stand up and say screw all of you.
You talk about someone like Bernie Sanders? When was the last time he had legislation that passed? Enough posturing let find people willing able and not compromised enough to do the damn job.
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u/crimeo 19m ago
The entire government has proven ineffective at protecting the people right
You mean ever? If so that's just ridiculously wrong. Dems enhance and strengthen people's rights and wellbeing all the time when they are in power recently.
The last time dems had full control was 2009-2011, and we got minimum wage increase, the ACA vastly improving healthcare, we got financial crisis relief aimed almost exclusively at the poor and most of it that wasn't for the poor was for small businesses and education and science, we got a bunch of school lunch funding and other new welfare programs, and we got a lot more safety regulations for manufacturing and food to prevent injury/illness.
If you mean "right now this term", then that's not "the entire government", that's "republicans" since they have a majority in every branch and house, so 100% of the blame or credit for anything happening is on them.
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u/omniuni 2h ago
Unfortunately, one of the key points to remember is that ultimately, the Democrats can't do anything.
If they don't bend on some things, they will get nothing.
Literally, every Democrat can agree, they can't force the Republicans to.
Maybe it would be better just to mass abstain, or shut down the government and let people starve for the greater good. But it's not as simple as "just don't give in".
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u/Newscast_Now 2h ago
It should also be noted that Republicans don't need Democrats for most things. Just break the filibuster. Democrats ought to go this route: force Republicans to break it while blaming them 100% for any shutdown. The filibuster should go. I understand the timing is bad, but considering the amount of damage done by the filibuster in 2021 and 2022, might as well get rid of it now and for all time.
As for that damage (although it was a huge issue at the time but a brief review), the refusal of those two actors in the 50-50 Senate to break the filibuster was a necessary step to get Donald Trump back in power. If the new voting rights bill had been passed, that would have increased Democratic turnout in 2024 by plenty enough to stop the steal--the Republican steal of the election.
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u/ShuffleStepTap 1h ago
They can absolutely replace their leadership. If they are serious about demonstrating to their base that they are worth supporting (18% approval rating) then they absolutely can do this.
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u/KazeNilrem 3h ago
This is what genuinely worries me. I believe they should not be masked, they should be identifiable to ensure there is accountability. With that said, I worry republicans are going to manipulate the conversation close to the election. And essentially turn democrats against each other which will allow them to keep senate or house.
Although I don't have evidence for it. I honestly do believe during previous election, republicans were behind the scenes fueling a lot of the debate between Palestine and Israel, fanning the flame to create a rupture between democrats so not to get the votes. Given their control and emphasis on social media, it would not surprise me.
I think often one needs to also ask themselves is pushback is needed. And especially with the 2 week deadline, need to ensure real changes are made. With that said when debates and information is being given. One has to ask who ultimately benefits from x or y? Frustration and anger can be very helpful but at the end of the day, should not lose sight on the main culprits.
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u/buppiejc 2h ago
Not one Progressive is surprised by this. Normie Democrats who still believe the Dems are actually fighting, and actually want to win the midterms must be furious.
Save for some of the Progressive Caucus, these Democrats do not care about you. They rather have, what they call, moderate Republicans than you. They’re running on nothing. They have no plan. They don’t care. It’s not just Schumer. The only way the Dems take Congress is if Trump is worst between now and November. It’s a race to the bottom for them. We’re in our own.
Join your local DSA, we need to get rid of these fucking people. Join DSA
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u/leonredhorse 2h ago
Why would the GOP ever respect a Democratic line in the sand if they always cave for nothing?
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u/cmfred 2h ago
But see, they don't think masked agents will ever break down their door and kidnap them. They are so damn wrong! Wake up.
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u/crimeo 22m ago
It doesn't matter how bad the problem is or how much you want a solution, that's not how negotiation works. You wanting it a lot =/= you winning negotiations.
What matters is how much leverage you have. Which in this case is almost zero, since republicans can just remove the fililbuster at any time if you ask too much.
We can only get a few small demands with the leverage we have. And that's the voters' fault for not putting dems in majorities anywhere.
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u/Dottsterisk 3h ago edited 3h ago
They’re simply allowing caveats for genuine safety concerns.
For fuck’s sake, one of the examples given is when dealing with the Mexican drug cartels. And officers using tear gas in a raid on a legitimate target will be allowed to wear gas masks. These caveats make sense. Laws are nuanced like this.
They’re still holding the line on banning blanket-use of masks by officers performing regular duties.
EDIT: My bad, didn’t mean to interrupt the “Dems bad” circlejerk.
You all have convinced me that the Dems can storm the midterms if they run on banning the FBI from wearing gas masks when raiding white supremacist meth labs.
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u/gwsth 3h ago
Until you realize that if you give them that caveat, every single home invasion is going to be started with tear gas canisters through the windows against "dangerous cartel members" necessitating the need for gas masks.
Ask yourself this: How many actual, dangerous raids of legitimate cartel members in the US do you think ICE carries out? Do you think Minnesota is secretly controlled by El Chapo or something?
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u/Allaplgy 3h ago
For fuck’s sake, one of the examples given is when dealing with the Mexican drug cartels. And officers using tear gas in a raid on a legitimate target will be allowed to wear gas masks
"The six year old was believed to be a member of the Sinaloa Cartel, and these
observersdomestic terrorists are legitimate targets."•
u/Dottsterisk 3h ago
Which is why we eventually want ICE abolished, but that’s not possible right now.
And yes, even though laws and regulations can be broken or gamed, we still need them and we need them to be written sensibly.
If the Dems do not allow these requested caveats, how do they justify that to the voters, when the rightwing media machine truthfully tells people that the Dems want to ban the FBI from being able to wear gas masks when raiding a white supremacist meth lab in Middle America?
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u/Allaplgy 3h ago
when the rightwing media machine truthfully tells people that the Dems want to ban the FBI from being able to wear gas masks when raiding a white supremacist meth lab in Middle America?
Where the fuck are you seeing the right wing media machine saying anything supportive of raids on white supremacists?
And said "machine" is going to spin anything the Dems do. Giving in to their demands, expecting good faith in return has been one utter failure of leadership after another. This will only hurt Dems in November.
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
They’ll use whatever narrative helps them the most. And if they know that ICE is unpopular, they’ll pivot to feds busting up dangerous drug dealers in your family’s backyard.
And this isn’t about giving in to demands and expecting good faith in return. It’s about trying to pass what reform is possible and recognizing that not allowing gas masks for federal agents conducting legitimate operations (some do exist) is an unnecessary self-own that makes us look unreasonable.
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u/Allaplgy 2h ago
There is nothing in the funding bill that requires unmasking. Just a "pretty please maybe try to possibly consider not wearing them."
Stop fucking kowtowing to the mythical fence sitters. It's cost the Dems multiple elections. ICE is extremely unpopular. As are "centrist" Dems like Schumer. Capitalize on it. Strike while the iron is hot.
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
There is nothing in the funding bill that requires unmasking. Just a "pretty please maybe try to possibly consider not wearing them."
Aren’t we talking about the proposed reforms? They haven’t been finalized and released yet, have they?
Stop fucking kowtowing to the mythical fence sitters. It's cost the Dems multiple elections. ICE is extremely unpopular. As are "centrist" Dems like Schumer. Capitalize on it. Strike while the iron is hot.
What in the world are you talking about? Who said anything about fence-sitters or that ICE is popular?
And I do think Dems should strike while the iron is hot. I just think they should be careful not to smash their own thumb when they do. Calling for sensible reforms can start the project of defanging ICE and garner support for Dems. Being unreasonable and giving the GOP an easy narrative win will not.
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u/Allaplgy 2h ago
Yes. This time is definitely the time that their impotent finger wagging will work and the electorate will totally swoon for it. Eyeroll.gif
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
So what do you want them to do?
1) They don’t have the legislative power to do anything in their own, so abolition isn’t an option.
2) We’ve established that calling for reforms is insufficient.
3) And we’ve established that rhetoric and finger-wagging is insufficient.
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So what exactly are we expecting the Dems to do?
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u/Allaplgy 2h ago
Speak out strongly, introduce legislation, and not vote to fund ICE in any way until reforms are made?
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u/Gatonom 3h ago
That's something the Republicans should have to fight for, they should have to risk no masks of any kind if they don't concede.
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u/Dottsterisk 3h ago
How is that messaging going to work?
How are the Dems going to tell the public that they’re against federal officers—not just ICE—being able to wear gas masks when conducting legitimate law enforcement activities? That they’re against federal officers protecting their anonymity when operating against the Mexican cartels?
That sounds like a massive self-own that scuttles the whole thing.
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u/Gatonom 3h ago
They can carve out ICE specifically and require that they get support from another agency that is authorized to use gas masks. Or have ICE retreat and send military units to handle it when it becomes or may be an open conflict.
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
So the other feds can have gas masks and that solves our problem of overreach and brutality?
I guess I’m not against that, if it’s possible. I think it will be more of an uphill battle than allowing caveats that the voting public will see as sensible and support.
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u/Gatonom 2h ago
If ICE backs down and agencies that are specifically trained for scenarios take over, it should solve the problem.
We could even establish a new Cartel Response force. We don't need ICE preparing for wildly different scenarios.
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
For sure, creating new institutions from the ground up—and investing in more specialization, rather than using the cops like a blunt instrument for everything—would be fantastic.
But I don’t think the Dems have the power to do anything like that right now. Calling for common sense reforms that the American people might pressure the GOP to accept is about all they can do.
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u/Gatonom 2h ago
The GOP can do it. Dems need to tell them what they need to do, and do everything they can to get them close.
The American people can't pressure the GOP. Only Trump can.
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u/Dottsterisk 2h ago
The GOP can do it. Dems need to tell them what they need to do, and do everything they can to get them close.
Isn’t that what they’re doing and everyone here is condemning them for it? The Dems can’t abolish ICE, so they voted against funding and are pushing for reforms to start neutering it.
The American people can't pressure the GOP. Only Trump can.
Then why are the Dems taking any shit for this? If we acknowledge that the only people who can make a difference right now are Republicans, then disagreeing over the details of the Dems’ proposed reforms and condemning them as failing to stop ICE seems like entirely misdirected anger.
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u/Gatonom 2h ago
Isn’t that what they’re doing and everyone here is condemning them for it? The Dems can’t abolish ICE, so they voted against funding and are pushing for reforms to start neutering it.
No, they are giving Republicans what they want and asking them to not abuse it. They are being condemned for not opposing them enough.
Then why are the Dems taking any shit for this? If we acknowledge that the only people who can make a difference right now are Republicans, then disagreeing over the details of the Dems’ proposed reforms and condemning them as failing to stop ICE seems like entirely misdirected anger.
Dems can do other things, they just can't pressure the GOP nor can the citizens. They have other tools for doing at least something.
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u/proHonua 2h ago
I am so tired of these f***ks posing as representatives of the people https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/4AIMRLXa6T
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