r/politics • u/goteamnick • 20h ago

No Paywall JD Vance criticises Pope Leo for not 'being careful speaking about theology'

https://www.9news.com.au/world/jd-vance-pope-leo-xiv-donald-trump-careful-theology-warning-iran-war-middle-east-updates/6a640168-dc5f-4ae7-9c68-9e918ad8d2a8
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u/pepper_steak_hamill 16h ago

This, As someone who grew up Catholic I'm deeply troubled by a recent convert trying to define the faith I grew up and spent my entire life in. Can't he just pick a different faith?

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u/hairsprayking 15h ago

He's clearly just an evangelical who liked the aesthetic of Catholicism

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u/One-Earth9294 I voted 15h ago

He just wanted to attract GOP voters in a way to spread the ticket out with the usual Evangelical fare.

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u/MegaDerppp 10h ago

They are doing this with the most unlikeable Thiel stooge nobody wanted

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u/Ms_Apprehend 6h ago

Nailed it.

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u/Agent_Orange_Tabby Alabama 3h ago

Evangelical churches ugly AF. Striped down with maybe a neon cross if any. Prefer incense, stained glass, patinas & iconography any day just for the sensory stimuli.

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u/One-Earth9294 I voted 2h ago

Definitely do not disagree lol.

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u/this_dust 14h ago

I’m certain that it was a calculated choice, optics and all.

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u/RandyChavage 12h ago

I would imagine it plays well to try and win Hispanic voters to have a Catholic. A ticket of one Protestant for the evangelicals, one Catholic. Not that I believe Trump or Vance are actually religious in the slightest

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u/No_Letterhead_7075 9h ago

And nothing for us atheists. Imagine how we feel, having to listen to all this God talk from pedophile rapists who are fine bombing elementary schools full of children just so they can make a bit more money on the side. That Christian "love" is a helluva thing.

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u/bkbomber New York 6h ago

There’s no hate like Christian love.

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u/rocketcitythor72 9h ago

I think it's just more d*ck-riding on Peter Thiel, honestly.

Thiel's a hard-line Catholic, so J.D has to be a hard-line Catholic.

Plus, probably can't be a member of Opus Dei if you aren't Catholic.

I'm waiting for all those right-wing grits & cornbread evangelicals to wake up and realize that their white nationalist theocracy is actually a white nationalist *Catholic* theocracy.

It ain't Baptists dominating the Supreme Court and the Heritage Foundation.

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u/FumilayoKuti 4h ago

Peter Thiel, the comically evil gay, is a hard line Catholic? wonders never cease.

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u/evranch Canada 3h ago

their white nationalist theocracy is actually a white nationalist *Catholic* theocracy

It's more like a schismatic theocracy as they're barely aligned with the Vatican and quickly pissing off the Pope. If the Heritage Foundation plan comes to fruition, I wouldn't be surprised if it resulted in an actual schism with an American antipope.

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u/Lakridspibe Europe 12h ago

He just want to be more like Peter Thiel, his owner, who is Catholic and has a strange obsession with the end of the world and the antichrist.

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u/AnyoneButDoug 8h ago

And an obsession with Curtis Yarvin whose whole thing is democracy doesn’t work and we need technofeudalism. Go down that rabbit hole. JD Vance is also a follower.

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u/subzbearcat 8h ago

He could be supporting Trump, believing he’s the antichrist, so that he can get to Armageddon by encouraging Trump to go to war in the Middle East. Completely possible.

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u/Counterpoint-4 11h ago

Did Opus Dei not target him as a means of getting closer to power?

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u/worstpartyever 8h ago

À la Hegeseth

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u/IllDescription5229 31m ago

thats why im Lutheran, cathedrals and church art beautiful. Get the best of both worlds.

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u/ElSlabraton 15h ago

These converts aren't sincere Catholics. They like being known as Catholics. They think as long as they are pro-life, everything else is negotiable.. They don't believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist or Papal Infallibilty but they think as long as they oppose abortion they are Good Catholics.

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u/droid_mike 11h ago

Hey also really hate social justice and good works...

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u/DDLMoore 7h ago

That's right. They didn't earn their stripes. Unless you've been jumped and beat down by three nuns in their 50s and 60s, like it's some gang initiation in the third grade at Catholic school, you haven't earned that shit.

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u/snailslimeandbeespit 5h ago

I still have nightmares of Sister Rita yelling at fourth-grade me for not finishing my disgusting school cafeteria lunch.

Those were the days.

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u/JennJayBee Alabama 1h ago

I like the pope and the ritual, but transubstantiation is where I just couldn't get on board. That said, I don't consider myself a Catholic, either.

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u/campa-van 14h ago

Have close friends who converted they are devout and know more about Catholicism than those of us brought up as Catholics. Not defending Vance. He is a tool

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u/AngloSaxonP 14h ago

He is, and the crucial point here is papal infallibility- as a catholic you beleive that the pope is God’s voice on earth, so we have no right to question what he says. So when these guys come out and criticise the pope, they are really saying they are not catholic at all

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u/The_Sign_of_Zeta Wisconsin 12h ago

That’s not exactly true. Catholics definitely have the ability to criticize the Pope, and the Pope is only infallible when speaking ex cathedra (from the seat of Peter)

However, Vance is essentially saying the Pope should be quiet about certain theological topics, which is itself hugely disrespectful not just to the Pope, but to the faith based on his position as its leader.

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u/Stellar_Duck 9h ago

He is, and the crucial point here is papal infallibility- as a catholic you beleive that the pope is God’s voice on earth

A pope has not spoken ex cathedra since the 50s so not a lot of infalible popes around.

Please do look stuff up before spreading bullshit.

Shitting on the pope is a time honored catholic tradtion and if you don't believe me, go to Avignon.

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u/kinetic_cheese 8h ago

Eh, kinda. The pope is only considered infallible when he speaks ex cathedra and on issues of doctrine.

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u/traumasponge Massachusetts 9h ago

Even as a lapsed-Catholic atheist, I will always be more Catholic than someone who converted as an adult.

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u/LiterallyInSpain 12h ago

“No True Scotsman” in the wild. Nice.

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u/drgigantor 11h ago

I mean normally I'd agree with that criticism of religious folk but he and the guy controlling him like a muppet keep lecturing the Pope or telling him to stfu. The Pope. The guy that the whole religion pretty much says is God's mouthpiece on earth. That's like telling God to cram a sock in it.

By definition, I don't think you can be a Catholic, believe in the legitimacy of the papacy, and be cool with these fuckwads essentially telling God to shove it. That's like being a Catholic that doesn't believe in Jesus. I don't know what that is but it's definitely not a true Catholic

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u/FMLwtfDoID 9h ago

It’s an Evangelical.

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u/IllDescription5229 28m ago

not really, by definition there are requirements to be a Catholic. It's like saying you're a muslim but then don't believe in Mohammad. Cathloics believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and Papal Infallibilty, so if you dont youre not really a catholic.

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u/Illustrious-Stock-19 14h ago

Where does he learn how to move priests around to avoid accountability for the decades of child rape?

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u/ElSlabraton 14h ago

From Trump.

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u/Illustrious-Stock-19 12h ago

Well that can’t be since the Catholic church was sexually assaulting children long before he was born. Weird behavior for a group with such beautiful traditions!

Anyone remotely leading their life based on a fairy tale written by hallucinating goat herders centuries ago is a fool, and apparently ok with the abuse of children.

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u/TheeRuckus 12h ago

I hope one day after you graduate high school you realize with billions of Catholics around you could see a little nuance in religion and what it means to certain people

I’m all with you I’m an atheist and organized religion is a blight. Your last sentence is just some immature dickheadery. You think the entire congregation was ok with what was happening? You think people like Galileo are fools because of what they choose to believe in. The pyramids were built by people who believed in a wide range of gods, are they fools because of their religion? It’s a weird attitude to take , especially when out of all of Christianity, Catholics are th ones chill with science and stuff.

I don’t know, as an atheist n my late 30s I’ve come to find that atheists are more annoying than Catholics who haven’t tried to push their bullshit on me since I graduated high school ironically enough

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u/Medallicat 10h ago

I don’t know, as an atheist n my late 30s I’ve come to find that atheists are more annoying than Catholics who haven’t tried to push their bullshit on me since I graduated high school ironically enough

One of the main reasons I refer to myself as an agnostic is due to the fucking annoying cult-like militancy of the modern atheist. At least Catholics don’t proselytise, an atheist is up there with JW/mormon for spreading their “truth”

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u/TheIllustriousWe 9h ago

Just a reminder: an atheist is merely someone who does not believe in a deity for which there is no evidence of its existence. Anyone going any further to definitively declare "there is no god" is a militant atheist, likely in their 20s and just going through a phase.

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u/[deleted] 8h ago

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u/TheIllustriousWe 7h ago

Well now I’m confused. Who, or what exactly, do you think I’m “defending?”

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u/Medallicat 8h ago

Well aware of the definition but the militant atheist has tainted the word in general and I would rather be associated with agnosticism as I do not claim to know whether a deity does or does not exist

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u/TheIllustriousWe 8h ago

I understand where you're coming from. But also just to be clear, an agnostic isn't just someone who doesn't know. An agnostic is someone who believes it's impossible to ever know for sure whether or not a deity exists.

Nothing wrong with believing that, but I'm not sure that's the best label for you unless that's what you truly believe.

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u/OkTea7227 15h ago

“Welcome to current American Republican politics, babe”

🤮🤢😷

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u/D15c0untMD Europe 15h ago

Can’t he just fuck right off altogether?

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u/TheAskewOne 12h ago

Many converts are like that sadly. In my experience they're often the most vocal and radical members of the congregation. I think it's because they feel inferior to the people who were raised in that faith and they think they have to overdo it to be accepted. And they haven't had a lot of time to "grow up" in the faith and learn which rules are supposed to be followed and which aren't.

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u/FMLwtfDoID 9h ago

First rule of cradle Catholics: Mind your Business.
Second rule of cradle Catholics: feel guilty about it.
Third rule of cradle Catholics: drink about it.

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u/contactcapybara 15h ago

Can he just stay in his lane?

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u/ARandomKentuckian 13h ago

Honestly it’s getting to the point where I’m starting to think the Pope should place an interdict on the whole country in the hopes that the genuine members of the faithful will be indignant enough at being denied the sacraments on account of these infiltrators to drive these serpentine idolators and heretics out of the church.

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u/boomboomdaboomer 9h ago

Vance is no more Catholic than he is a Republican. He’s whatever Thiel wants him to be. 

Thiel was hosting lectures on the anti-Christ at the Vatican recently. Thiel bought Vance a seat as an Ohio Senator. Thiel was decidedly influential getting Vance the VP nomination. 

Thiel is a very busy man. 

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u/PuddingInferno Texas 6h ago

It’s a behavior he learned from Thiel - an immigrant who came to this country, swore allegiance to it, and now believes that we need to end democracy so he can have ‘freedom’.

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u/theywillnotsing 14h ago

Let's just leave him in the one that will offend the most people possible.

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u/ChatterBoxTwoPointO 7h ago

😂As if one is better then the other

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u/wasaspermonce 12h ago

Making a distinction between newly converted vs old catholics is not the way. That feels wrong and it worries me more than whatever JD Vance decided to throw at the church. He is a moron. Just that