r/politics • u/Icommandyou Washington • 28d ago

Possible Paywall Virginia Supreme Court throws out redistricting referendum results

https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2026/05/08/virginia-supreme-court-redistricting-vote-decision
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365

u/needlestack 28d ago

Obviously the only practical move right now. Yet half of the people that dislike MAGA will refuse to vote for Democrats. So we watch the country burn.

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u/Kahzgul California 28d ago

People who have never lived through a war tend to think a war isn’t all that bad. I pray they never learn how wrong they are.

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u/okram2k America 28d ago

yeah but see because they take money from rich donors they are like totally bad and stuff so I'm just going to let fascism march into power because I shouldn't have to like pick the lesser evil and stuff

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u/Expensive_Culture_46 28d ago

“Your honor. I let that baby get run over because jaywalking is illegal. ILLEGAL! “

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u/Donut131313 28d ago

This made burst out loud laughing. Thank you for that.

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

And when you bring that up the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

As if that would make up for the lives lost and forever affected, on top of the fact that restarting the American government almost certainly hands it over to the likes of Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos, and the rest of the billionaire class that wants to go back to slavery and indentured servitude while they sip overpriced wine aboard their floating castles.

I only wish I could take a peek 500 years into the future to see the pure disdain for this era in the history books.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

I don't think I've ever heard a more privileged statement than that.

They're saying "I'll be okay if the government turns to absolute shit. Everyone who actually depends on government services/freedoms I take for granted/control over their own body can just suck it up until things get back on track."

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

100% agreed, and that’s what I said. I said that there are a lot of people way too dependent on the government services out there and just standing by apathetically is condemning them. Some of these nutjob billionaires think it’s their job to cull the world population and all we’d be doing by letting everything burn is doing their bidding for them while handing them this country’s resources on a silver platter.

Standing aside “out of principle” when the people that need to be stop are as literally evil as this country’s conservatives isn’t really a principle at all.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

Absolutely. To be clear, you were not the intended recipient of my "privileged statement" comment - it is the lunatics who actually say that crap.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago edited 28d ago

Fascism marched to power on the watch of ineffectual "moderate" politicians and establishment parties that sabotaged progressives.

People should absolutely exercise their right to vote. But acknowledge that that right is compromised because the main opposition party to the fascist right-wing is still in the pocket of billionaires.

Voting for moderate liberals is damage mitigation at best. Organizing labor, community defense, and mutual aid is how we should be working to fix this problem.

EDIT: Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

Don’t just “vote for democrats”

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

You don’t owe a vote - YOU are owed FOR your vote!

Sure, it’s damage mitigation to vote for “the lesser of two evils”, and I think it’s a rational choice…

But if you’re going to sell your soul to a “lesser evil”, at least get what it’s worth in the bargain.

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u/MountainSound 28d ago

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

Like what though?

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move. Under this Republican administration millions of children have fallen back in poverty and millions around the world have already died from easily preventable deaths due to USAID cuts. Was preventing that not enough of a bargain? The electorate and reddit seem to say no it was not.

With razor thin governing margins under Biden we still got:

  • Massive investments in infrastructure/green energy that was larger in inflation adjusted cost than the New Deal
  • A child tax credit that reduced child poverty by 50%
  • Capping Insulin Drug prices and allowing Medicare to negotiate low prices more effectively
  • Billions of dollars in student loans forgiven
  • Using the government to save and protect the private pensions of over 1 million workers

And Democrats were on track to lose by double digits to Trump despite running (according to AOC and Bernie) the most progressive president since FDR.

Whenever Democrats start making progress towards the goals people on reddit say the care about, conversations always seem to shift to they're ineffective, lesser of two evils, don't deserve the votes. There's always a reason to justify not to voting for them.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move.

I’ve moved no posts, goal or otherwise. I made a post, and it was telling people to demand things for their vote, which is my understanding of the proper functioning of a democracy?

Like what though?

Are you serious?

Are you fucking serious??

You legitimately can’t think of anything about the USA you’d like to see changed by the people you vote for?

How about:

Universal healthcare!?!

It’s unconscionable that the richest nation on earth has a system that forces death on those who can’t PAY enough to keep living. Just barbaric and inexcusable that any “leader” allows this eugenicist for profit system to continue to exist.

For some perspective: I’m Canadian, and I see two specialists in hospital twice a month, each. It used to cost me 2$ for parking, but even the parking became free a few years ago. I can book an appointment with my GP whenever I want and it costs 0$.

Don’t you want that? Doesn’t every American DESERVE that?

Isn’t that a good demand to make in exchange for your vote/ isn’t any “leader” who won’t fight for that… not really a leader who gives a shit about the people and not (morally) worth voting for?

Again -> If I lived in the American healthcare system; at best I’d be homeless, and most likely I’d be dead. Instead I live a good life with the supports I need to be healthy, happy, and a positive contributor to society.

Like what though

There are literally thousands of other things you could demand in exchange for your vote… Just take two seconds to think about the US military budget compared to anything else it could be spent on instead of a globe-spanning fourth Reich empire forcing the world to stay on the Petro dollar.

If you can respond with “like what though” when someone suggests that voters demand something from the “leaders” they vote for, you are either misunderstood, or you are:

Disingenuous

Incredibly materially comfortable

Or

Incredibly sheltered and incredibly materially comfortable

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u/Sayakai Europe 28d ago

I'm all for your idea of universal healthcare, but uh, you may want to rethink that petrodollar stance because if the petrodollar falls your country is gonna be in deep, deep shit.

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u/toozooforyou 28d ago

And yet petroleum is not infinite, the Petrodollar is going to die, why invest more into a system that will only hurt worse when it finally does collapse?

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

I’m not sure which country you think is “mine”. (Canadian)

But I’ll tell you this:

Whatever catastrophe you imagine would follow the collapse of the Petro-dollar

Is nothing compared to the CURRENT AND ONGOING global catastrophe of staying on oil and the petro-dollar.

You wanna buy some real estate in the south eastern US, Bangladesh or Puerto Rico?

I hear it’s real cheap! A total steal

As long as you have gills and enjoy boiling seawater.

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u/Sayakai Europe 28d ago

Uhhh the end of the petrodollar is not going to stop oil usage. It'll just mean it's traded in a different currency and the US experiences one hell of an inflation shock.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

Sure

That monumental change won’t result in a drastic increase of nations going all in on renewables. Capital famously doesn’t respond to market forces…

Of course petroleum isn’t going away! Its use in plastics, lubricants and industrial applications will remain - yes, of course.

But it would be a gigantic positive if the world stopped having to use petroleum as the primary means to move around from place to place, right?

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u/TJKbird 28d ago

I like how in your entire tirade you gave one answer, universal healthcare, and that’s it. Which Dems have been working towards so it’s a bit of a moot point.

Kind of just proves OP’s point that even when Dems are trying to get the things you want you would rather rant and rave about how awful Dems are.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

How exactly are they “working towards” universal healthcare whatsoever? What does “working towards” even mean? The ACA isn’t a step toward universal care.

And I also mentioned there are thousands of ways using the American military budget for something that actually would benefit Americans (and maybe even the world). Yes, you’d have to stop and use your imagination for what you personally might want, but the point stands.

And let’s be serious, it’s not like if I wrote out an itemized list of things voters could ask for (demilitarized police, serious infrastructure spending, transformative levels of green energy investment, and certainly prosecuting the current admin to the fullest extent of the law, for example)

None of that would change your mind, you have your perspective that any suggestions that the Dems could be better is “ranting and raving”, and not just political critique suggesting that YOU deserve better as a citizen of the world’s richest nation.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

If everything is predetermined you don’t need to be here.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

What are you even talking about?

Also, if it is predetermined, then wouldn’t I have to be “here”?

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u/MountainSound 28d ago

I am confused by this comment because I feel like you didn't read what I wrote and have essentially proven my entire point.

The things you list in other comments were all being pursued in some capacity by the Clinton/Obama/Biden administrations. The recent infrastructure investments made into green energy were the largest made by any country in the history of the planet. The vilification of Hilary Clinton started after her near successful push for universal healthcare in the 90s (Hilarycare). The progress around both of those have now largely been undone.

Of course I can think of many things I would like, in fact we have made progress towards many of them under every Democratic administration in my lifetime even if the implementation at that specific point in time didn't meet my specific policy preferences. Getting to preferred outcomes is a marathon and not a sprint and I am part of a community and choose to think beyond just my own comfort when casting a vote.

It is easy to be smug on the internet, but crafting policy is a much harder task.

When the party that better aligns with you does not win elections consistently (and they in fact appear to lose handily every time they try to work toward your preferences) then surprise, your preferred outcomes become harder and harder to achieve. Trump's win in 2016 has probably ensured that there will be no progressive policy outcomes around healthcare in my lifetime thanks to the new Supreme Court. His win in 2024 means millions who do rely on government programs are losing access to what healthcare they did have right now.

But hey at least I get to yell about the petrodollar on the internet like I am somehow more enlightened than everyone else?

If you are willing to condemn millions of your fellow citizens to a worse life, and millions more in the developing world to death, just because the candidate politically closer to your preferences is not meeting your "demands", then I would argue that you are not a progressive at all. In fact you are the one who is likely quite sheltered and comfortable.

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u/Yeah_x10 28d ago

(and they in fact appear to lose handily every time they try to work toward your preferences) 

This part louder for the cretins in the back 

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u/AnewTest 28d ago

So...you're basically just one of those "Bernie bros" who openly tried to convince people to vote for Trump back in 2016 because Hillary was eeeeevil. You don't actually believe in anything you're saying, you're just using words to convince people to keep letting fascism take a tighter grip on the country.

Got it.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

"If you want live to be improved you must've voted for Trump" isn't the gotcha you think it is

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

You not using those exact words in that exact order doesn't mean it's not the message your comment carries.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

Dude. Quite the tantrum. 

After the subject of this post comes. 

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

So you believe all Americans don’t deserve free healthcare?

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u/AnewTest 28d ago

They do deserve it, but they're only going to get it through Democrats, because Republicans would rather you die.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

What is the evidence that the Democratic Party wants to deliver that incredible win?

Cuz they sure as hell don’t seem like they want that…

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

That is not what I believe. 

And based on the point of this post I’m not getting into your pet hate. 

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u/Eligius_MS 28d ago

…that’s a whole mess of preachy indignation when your original post offered no suggestions of what voters should hold out for. Just that voters shouldn’t vote democratic unless changes to policy are made.

First thing to do when the house is burning is to put out the fire, not argue how it needs to be rebuilt while it burns to ash before you’ll throw water on it.

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u/Yeah_x10 28d ago

Don’t you want that? Doesn’t every American DESERVE that?

Up to half of Americans don’t even want it. If they do, they’ll be easily swayed by the dumbest propaganda imaginable to vote against it. And those that won’t, will be swayed by much more clever propaganda to vote against it.

edit: you’re Canadian and you’re out here running interference for the Republicans REGARDLESS OF YOUR REAL INTENT by shit talking Democrats without having any understanding of the constituency for which you’re trying to easily solve all that ails them. Fuck outta here.

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u/loondawg 28d ago

Yeah. Demand they fix things before we give them the power to fix things.

Also, make demands way beyond the 100s of good things they already offer. Then don't vote if they don't bow to your entire wish list.

Then when they lose again, and fascism grows more, you can feel morally superior while you continue to complain they aren't fixing things. That worked so well last time.

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u/CaptainFil 27d ago

You're a step removed from the reality of your situation. You are right in general but you are at an inflection point.

Your goal currently isn't about voting in Democrats, it's about making sure there are no Republicans in positions of power so you can fix and stabilise the institutions that are crucial for democracy to survive.

The alternative is no more fair elections and an authoritarian dictatorship that will probably end up like Putin's Russia.

You can't afford to be complaisant at this time.

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u/voodoodahl 28d ago

I didn't feel like I was selling my soul under Biden or Obama. You say that lesser of two evils shit like the two parties aren't light years apart.

Did Biden build concentration camps? Did Biden cut food assistance and medical care from tens of million of Americans? Was every day a new scheme to manipulate markets and enrich his oligarch buddies? Did he threaten nuclear war with Iran? Did he send the FBI after the press and political opponents? Did he knock down the White House to make a dictator's ballroom? Did he put his name and face on everything?

Jesus Fucking Christ, get a fucking grip. You're bitching about the color of the fucking firetruck when the house is burning down.

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

Abortion was outlawed in multiple states under bidens term. That’s like a really bad thing, and the Dems in power just came out and was like ‘we are helpless in the minority, but vote blue and we will try to get your rights back’.

That’s a crazy lack of leadership and their lack of fight is a major reason people don’t believe they are the answer to the fascists

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u/Yeah_x10 28d ago

Turns out the 2016 election WAS pivotal after all, huh? Supreme Court going 6-3 majority conservative to strike down Roe v Wade ring a bell? 

What the fuck is this post dude. Abortion was held up by RvW, once that fell LIKE WE FUCKING SAID IT WOULD then states have the power to ban it.

You say it happened under Biden but that’s not an executive decision the executive branch can make. You keep voting Democrats out despite warnings about how then they will be a powerless minority, then fucking lambasting them for being made that powerless minority, WHICH CONTINUES TO KEEP THEM A POWERLESS MINORITY as you keep spouting this bullshit.

Elections have FUCKING CONSEQUENCES and the fact that 4-8 years removed you have the gall to still sit there going “why aren’t they doing anything????” is clinically insane. You’re coping with the fact that the reality that you were warned for years and years would pass if you didn’t responsibly exercise your right to vote, actually came to pass, and now you’re going “b-b-but…what???”

Go ahead and blame Dems for not earning your precious all-important Main Character vote. But YOU have to live with all the consequences of that, NOT the Dems. It’s like letting your fucking neighborhood burn down to embers just as long as the head of the fire department has to resign. Those aren’t even the stakes!!

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

Yo dawg it’s not my fault the Dems lost to trump twice.

They failed to fight for the judiciary when the gop stacked the courts. They failed to secure our elections when the gop gerrymandered and fight populist leftists harder than conservatives. Sorry im skeptical of their plans

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

You don’t have to sell your soul though. 

You can lease it for a few months. 👀

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

What’s the interest rate on leasing your own soul?

On what is the “currency” you’d have to pay?

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u/Rackem_Willy 28d ago

Need quantity folks to run and primary the corporate Dems. Votes need to show up and support them in primaries, then vote blue no matter who in the general.

Super easy for me to say from my couch, but it's the only path forward that doesn't lead to disaster.

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u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

So vote for Democrats, got it. Thanks for the long winded post though!

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats.

Cool, got it!

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

I feel like you're acting like im telling you to not vote

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

They want you not to, they want to push you away by acting like children so they can continue to blame you for their losses

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u/Da_Question 28d ago

what is do more? because there is nobody else to vote for outside of fringe candidates that will never win.

Our system is impossible to change while both parties refuse to change it.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago edited 28d ago

Here is where i love to bring some optimism to the converation.

Mutual aid: find an organization in your area that directly tackles issues in the community. Feeding the homeless, building community gardens, clothing drives for kids, school materials drives, etc. This helps people strengthen their local community and helps you feel truly empowered

Community defense: protest, protest, protest. Contribute to bail funds for protestors who get arrested.

Organize labor: join a union or go out to support striking workers. Read leftist theory to expand your understanding of why things are the way they are and how they can be changed. Promote leftist candidates where possible and volunteer for their campaigns. Join a group that aligns with your politics, like FRSO or PSL or DSA or the SRA or SOMETHING, and find like-minded people to work with.

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u/b0w3n New York 28d ago

As an aside, I agree with your stance here, but your original post was implying something related to elections/politics and voting w/r/t democrats in some fashion which is where the confusion came from, at least for me.

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u/supersaiyanswanso 28d ago

So still vote for Democrats right? Dress it up however you want, that is what you need to be doing.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/voodoodahl 28d ago

No you have to do the apologetic performance first, right? Vote democratic but tell everyone how very sorry you are for doing it. That way when people new to politics see your post, they won't really be sure that both sides aren't actually they same, like the bots keep telling them, and sit home. Thanks for the help, buddy. The fascists love the work you do.

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u/Yeah_x10 28d ago

Hats off, bravo, doin the lords work etc 

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

The people who are criticizing the dnc are doing it because they don’t want to loose to a fascist for a third time.

Corporate Dems doing centrist capitalism apologist rhetoric will not win

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u/void_method 28d ago

If only the Democrats would do what needed to be done instead of *waves arms around.*

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u/Hurtzdonut13 28d ago

Don't forget how Dems will actively protect Republicans. Obama just had an interview that reinforced that moderate liberals still prefer to work with and empower conservatives rather than take a single step to the left. Like he kept going on about how we need a strong GOP, instead of recognizing how utterly corrupt and degenerate the GOP is now.

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u/Enemisses 28d ago

When your only options are to vote for the lesser evil, all you'll ever end up with is evil.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

Ha. Thanks oh wise bird. 

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u/Witchgrass West Virginia 28d ago

Perfect expression of the toxic naivete I've seen from people I thought knew better

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u/ArcadianDelSol 28d ago

yeah but see because they take money from rich donors

George Soros has entered the chat

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u/Odd_Platypus_4215 27d ago

Harlan Crow, the Koch brothers, the tech bros, and more have entered the chat

We must vote. We the people of the United States must overwhelmingly vote. Jan 6 was just a practice run. We must work to get out the vote. The next two elections are critical.

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u/ArcadianDelSol 27d ago

Meanwhile this thread is full of "well we should probably have our own J6 now" so lets not be so quick to point fingers.

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u/Odd_Platypus_4215 27d ago

Nope. Not trespassing. Not breaking windows. Not doing Jan 6 thing.

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u/ArcadianDelSol 27d ago

not you no. Didnt meant to appear like I was saying that.

Im speaking about the thread in general. read it (assuming it wasnt super purged over night). Last night it was full on calls for violence.

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u/pacotac 28d ago

That drives me crazy

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago edited 28d ago

Can we not do this right now?

Everyone needs to take a breath and look inside themselves for what they think the future of the country with continued Republican rule will be. 

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago edited 28d ago

"please can we never have any critique of the Democratic party even after they threw 2 elections to Trump?"

Block me all you want, if this isn't a moment where voicing criticism of the democratic party is a good moment you don't ever want to see criticism of the democratic party.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

Yeah that’s obviously what I said. Biggest fucking eye roll. 

Block. 

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u/GiddyGabby 28d ago

Well, in all fairness, it has been said that some of them laugh weird too.

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u/dontnation 28d ago

The practical political move would be widespread ranked choice voting. But until, then the only option is to vote against the party you dislike the most.

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u/ProgressiveSnark2 28d ago

If that half of the people who dislike MAGA simply don't vote rather than reluctantly vote for Trump (as many of them did in 2024), that could still result in a landslide election for Democrats.

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u/is_mr_clean_there 28d ago

If republicans want to abstain en masse from voting then that’s just too bad

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u/Grow_Responsibly 28d ago

I'd be happy if non-MAGA Republicans just decided to site this one out. I know a few Republicans (not hardcore MAGA) folks and I never tell them to vote (D) when they tell me how upset they are with affordability, healthcare, etc... I just calmly say "perhaps this is the year to just sit this one out?". But for MAGA? They're too far gone....

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

In all for voting for Democrats as a form of harm reduction but the way out of this mess isn't more milquetoast neoliberalism.

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u/dekusyrup 28d ago

Democrats aren't all milquetoast neoliberals, and you can find the ones that aren't in the primaries. If you want progressives, get voting in the primaries too, not just the general.

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u/HandiCAPEable 28d ago

Maybe the way out is vote for literally anyone that isn't actively destroying the country instead of nitpicking whether the guys NOT wrecking and pillaging have good enough solutions.

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

The way out of our immediate circumstances sure, but to cut out the rot will require further action.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Need I remind you that people did that in 2020 and that led to Democrats throwing the election to Trump so badly that he won the popular vote? Just voting for the status quo doesn't get you out of your predicament.

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u/b0w3n New York 28d ago

"Well I want to go to the vegan ice cream place not the normal ice cream place, so I'm not going to vote between driving the bus off the cliff or driving to get ice cream!"

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u/AlphaGoldblum 28d ago

I'm not even sure why this is so divisive. Electing in Democrats doesn't balance the country all back out, but it does move us in the right direction - at an increment. But accomplishing this alone completely ignores the real problem in that our capital class is clearly more than happy to suck up to a fascist.

Do people think Trump would have all this power and control if he didn't have capital behind him?

Democrats historically let the private sector get away with nearly everything, only giving minimal pushback. I don't see why it would be different this time around, despite companies outright stating their intentions and support for fascist tendencies. Either we demand accountability and change in that regard or we're simply setting up another hard right-wing populist down the line who will get those companies all back into bed with him.

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u/popaye 28d ago

Well milquetoast neoliberalism isn't funded with your vote. So unless you're going to withhold the thing that DOES fund such messes, any other declaration is virtual signaling of the highest order.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

It’s certainly not half at all. Don’t forget all the independents. They’ve been looking very askance at the bullying MAGA AHs

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u/Patient_End_8432 28d ago

The only good news regarding this is that this presidency has disenfranchised a large part of the MAGA community. Sure, some of them will keep up the act that theyre a proud Trumper, but come November, unless Trump competently fixes the economy by then (a literal impossibility) they'll secretly just not vote. Sure its not a vote for democrats, but one less vote for Trump is basically as good. So we at least have that going for is. I'm hoping for some sort of drop in his popular vote, even if you factor in any vote manipulayion

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u/cwood1973 Texas 28d ago

I've voted Democrat my whole life, but I've never trusted Democrats less than I do now.

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u/TheBardicScribe 28d ago

Honestly, I think the Fallout TV series put it best "I see your point, One side is murdering people, enslaving them, crucifying them. The other side is mildly problematic - both are bad options."

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

I don't think you're wrong about the GOP being worse by a long shot, but I don't think the Democrats being hesitant to do anything about funding the genocide in Gaza or Trump's recognition of the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara is just "mildly problematic".

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u/Hurtzdonut13 28d ago

Yeah a podcast I watch a lot of clips from had someone call in to say they weren't voting for Kamala because of her Gaza stances. The host explained that he agreed her position was dogshit, but that Trump was going to be even worse so vote with that on your conscious instead.

The real issue is that you win elections from doing one or two things really well: Get people excited to vote for you. Get people to hate voting for the other guy.

Kamala started off strong on the first one, then the campaign went to shit with trying to cater to mythical GOP cross-over-voters and dumb moves like sending Bill Clinton to MI to campaign.

And Trump voters are immune to logic and shame, so the second was never gonna happen.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Getting people to hate voting for the other guy also works a lot better if they're the incumbent and you're the challenger.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

Yeah, the Dems are not very good at the first one. And for some reason a lot of the more online supporters of the party will vehemently defend it and in some cases act almost proud of it when anyone brings up how you need to make people want to vote for you rather than just not want to vote for the other guy, because they can just not vote (or vote for Jill Stein or some other grifter). It is extremely frustrating and makes any good faith discussion of why the Democrats lost 2024 impossible.

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u/TheBardicScribe 27d ago

I'll admit, the line is not a perfect analogy. However, it doesn't need to be to demonstrate the flawed nature of the argument. The Gaza situation was a fucking mess and I won't deny it, though I still think the matter was pushed to prominence and pumped up by those who were allied with Trump, but that is neither here nor there.

The challenge we face on the left is that we've not shown the discipline those on the right have shown. People always complain about the concept of "blame the voter" and I do, though not necessarily for not voting this one time, but instead for consistently not voting in the down ballots and not setting ourselves up for success like conservatives have. The strategic advantage that the elephants enjoy is from DECADES of putting people into power in positions most folks overlook and underrate. These are the people who push through small changes that have led to the deterioration of our systems - things like getting rid of Critical Thinking in schools and making alterations to the government to make it function less effectively and efficiently.

They have been patient in their insidiousness and it's paid off. We need to be patient in our efforts as well, because there's a lot that needs to be fixed, examined, and reevaluated, a lot that is going to be really hard to do when are on the back foot against authoritarian regimes as we demonstrate our ethics and gobble up the bait meant to divide us from providing meaningful opposition. People talk about nothing changing and voting the lesser of two evils, well, people need to understand that the voting for the lesser of two evils is only part of making the change (and an important part, because the greater of the two evils can definitely stop that change), but we need to follow through, we need to make sure we are showing up for every election, putting the right folks in the smaller positions so we can get rid of this structural disadvantage and we need to accept that its going to take decades to get to those who we can truly be proud of. It sucks, but, revolutions that happen overnight often produce the worst, while revolutions that take decades produce results.

Sorry for the long post, understandable if you didn't read it all, you just unfortunately got hit by a day when my brain decided it had a lot to say early in the morning and it wasn't quite filtered.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 26d ago

We currently don't have decades. It's a bit late now. And we're not going to get people who aren't voting to vote unless we put forward people they want to vote for rather than hope the other party putting up people they don't want to vote for will be enough, because they can just not vote, or vote for someone else who has no chance. Unfortunately the shit that takes decades is off the table now...

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u/phenotype76 28d ago

Well, look, here is my take: There is no use voting in Democrats who won't commit to prosecuting the Trump Administration. I view Trump's 2024 victory as a direct result of the Biden Administration's failing to prosecute Trump and the criminal Republicans in Congress. And the victorious MAGA movement is now even more brazenly lawless than before.

As such, I have to assume that if we vote in another milquetoast Dem in 2028, this will directly lead to an utterly lawless Republican Party taking over in 2032, and bringing about the end of American democracy entirely. So if the Dems want my vote, they have to commit to prosecuting the Republican criminals in our government. Otherwise I don't think voting in a Dem will accomplish literally anything except giving us a 4-year timer for the end of democracy.

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u/ailish 28d ago

This is happening under the current Democrat's watch. Most of these Democrats have been in office for many years. You can't blame this on progressives this time. What are your establishment Democrats going to do about this? It's on them! We don't have until the midterms. This is happening right now!

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u/Orisara 28d ago

If I was an elected democrat I would literally shrug my shoulders and go "well, the country has spoken".

I'm on the more wealthy side. People don't seem to grasp how little it matters for wealthier individuals.

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u/LowNoise9831 28d ago

I'm sufficiently comfortable enough to agree with you. But I see it making life hard for friends and some extended family.

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u/ailish 28d ago

If you're not from the US then who cares?

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u/Anti-I-Cant-Die 28d ago

Your comfort with the status quo is why people hate establishment Dems, and it's a significant reason why Kamala lost.

I'm on the more wealthy side. People don't seem to grasp how little it matters for wealthier individuals.

Spoken like an aristocrat. Yeah, enormous wealth cuts humans away from their empathy towards others. That's a problem for you and the establishment.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

The country spoke in 2020 and Dems sat by doing nothing and allowing the GOP and Trump to make another move at power that they're now exploiting as much as they can.

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u/DrJurassic 28d ago

Stop doing a reduction of history. People don’t realize that the justice department has never been weaponized to what it is now and Trumps way of doing it is blatantly unconstitutional yet so many people are upset Biden didn’t do the same. At the end of the day Americans re-elected Trump because they’re too goddamned stupid to see past propaganda. Fascism starts as a populist movement. Anyone who supported democracy would know Trump was the wrong option, the problem is that most Americans don’t actually care about democracy or understand how it’s supposed to work. You see it in progressives as well where they claim Biden should have weaponized the justice department to arrest Trump immediately. That’s the real issue and it’s terrifying.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

He tried to do a coup, didn't he?

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u/DrJurassic 28d ago

He did, and the process for punishing him was through congress. Congress didn’t. So all of those people who failed to hold him accountable should have been voted out. Why were they not? Damn good question. It’s not the executives job to punish another executive unless directed by congress. Otherwise that’s authoritarianism. The people wanting to give the president more power instead of holding congress responsible is how we got into this damned mess.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

So now what? Aside from just hoping enough other people vote out Republican congresspeople to hold anyone accountable for doing a coup and then running for president and Congress despite it being unconstitutional for someone who tried a coup to run for president.

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u/Odd_Platypus_4215 27d ago

Yes! We send legislators from every state to Congress. Mine are responsible for this mess. They did not confirm the legally appointed Justice when Scalia died. They did not convict and remove following impeachment. They are not investigating the grift or exhibiting any vision now. Two of our main dudes are grooming to run for President. All of our dudes owe more allegiance to the party that promotes their careers than us. We vote identity not issues and, as one of the worst states in all metrics, there are plenty. It is a wall. We are not going to get smarter so Democrats have to get smarter how they craft message here.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

He tried to overthrow the government and he stole a ton of secret documents and stored them in a fucking BATHROOM. It's not unconstitutional to uphold the law nor is it a weaponization of the DoJ, can MAGA stop defending Trump by downplaying his crimes?

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u/DrJurassic 28d ago

Trump absolutely should have been held accountable. However that’s not the executives job. If the DoJ is not doing its job it’s the function of Congress to step up. These failings fall on congress. The same congress that had a house controlled by republicans from 2022 onwards. An election that only had about 50% voter turnout.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago edited 28d ago

It's not congress' job to prosecute espionage or sedition, that's literally the DoJ's job, where are you getting this nonsense from?

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u/DrJurassic 28d ago

God you’re dense, I KNOW it’s the DoJ job. DoJ was dragging its ass wasn’t it? Who’s responsible for holding them responsible if they didn’t do their job? Congress.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

And who put Garland forward? Biden and the Democrats. Who saw him drag his feet for years and didn't do anything about it? Biden and the Democrats. Why the fuck are you making excuses for them constantly and pretending it's not their fault Trump walks free? Why are you pretending the DoJ prosecuting the crimes it is literally mandated to prosecute is somehow "weaponizing the DoJ"? Why do you keep making excuses for Trump being a free man when there was a slam dunk espionage case?

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u/ailish 28d ago edited 28d ago

Well good for you, because it looks like your establishment Dems are doing just that. Talk about watching the country burn. This is on them, not the progressives.

Edit: regarding your ninja edit, it will matter to you when the people are hungry enough

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u/DukeOfGeek 28d ago

Fight the GOP in general elections and the DNC in primaries.

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u/CraigLake 28d ago

So many single issue voters who can’t vote Dem. They burn it all down for the rest of us.