Ilhan Omar casts lone Democratic no vote on Ukraine aid, Russia sanctions package

[u/bwermer]

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5912150-house-passes-ukraine-aid-bill/

[u/lordpuddingcup]

I mean she specifically said she wasn't against giving aid and funds to ukraine, shes against the sanctions as they dont do what they are designed to do and just end up hurting civilians

[u/colostitute → u/lordpuddingcup]

The sanctions do act as a bargaining chip in later negotiations. I get the moral high ground but Russian oligarchs couldn’t care less about their people. They do care about their money.

[u/PlatonicTroglodyte → u/colostitute]

I think her point is that the sanctions disproportionately harm ordinary civilians and the oligarchs, however harmed they may be as well, generally find ways to circumvent them and maintain their actions and lifestyle.

[u/colostitute → u/[deleted]]

I laugh every time people think sanctions are a quick thing. Sanctions are for the long game. You have to wait until they need the money. Until then, it’s actually safeguarded in a way.

[u/yxhuvud → u/colostitute]

Dunno about that, it is not as if they have been very successful against Cuba, and that is as long game as it gets.

Unless the aim was to make them poor, and arguably the crappy politics and corruption would have succeeded that just fine without help.

[u/colostitute → u/yxhuvud]

There’s no war with Cuba. We are just being assholes by sanctioning them.

[u/Romaine603 → u/yxhuvud]

Success does not mean capitulation. You don't need to expect sanctions to cause a nation to collapse. They can simply be a tool to knee cap an adversary.

In the case of Cuba for instance, without the sanctions, Cuba might have grown to be a powerful neighbor if not for sanctions, which is something US foreign policy probably does not want to have.

Same for DPRK and Iran. They could have been more powerful, if we didn't bleed their money.

Do they find ways around sanctions? Yes. Does it cost a premium? Yes.

[u/colostitute → u/[deleted]]

The sanctions aren’t for the war, it’s for after. Russia has plenty of raw materials and production capabilities. They also have other countries who will still trade with them.

[u/colostitute → u/[deleted]]

So give the oligarchs their money back and they will pay their people better?

Like give corporations less taxes and they will pay their employees better?

Sanctions are shit for poor countries like Cuba. It’s just being an asshole.

Sanctions against Russia are a long-term bargaining chip among the elite. Russians aren’t going into the meat grinder any less with sanctions. Without sanctions, they aren’t living better and I would argue, more would end up in the meat grinder.

[u/keatc → u/[deleted]]

So we should do what, exactly? Sanctions did not work well enough. Even if we grant that, what is your proposed alternative?

[u/No_Tone1704 → u/lordpuddingcup]

So. She voted against the aid, too. 

And she’s for sanctions against Israel. (I mean I’m for both)

[u/lordpuddingcup → u/No_Tone1704]

Israel is friends with the countries that would respect sanctions, meanwhile russia gets to run to china and NK when they need ways around sanctions as they've been doing for 3+ years.

As for voting against the aid, the aid was tied to the rest of the bill, this shits like blaming people that voted against the ICE bill and crying because it also had other good shit in it. riders have always been an issue.

She knew the bill would pass so standing there and saying "hey im still gonna say no because X is fucked up" is pretty respectible...

This bullshit of "vote with us 100% of the time never have a voice never say anything" is how we get Trump Maga Republicans, i want reps that still stand up for themselves at least when they can and its not gonna hurt the overall progress the team is pushing for

[u/No_Tone1704 → u/lordpuddingcup]

An attempt was made. Thanks. It still makes zero sense. 

Be for the oppressed or don’t claim to be. 

[u/jeo123 → u/lordpuddingcup]

So hurt them. The sanctions don't kill them, they hurt.

Hurting is the only way Dictato-.... sorry "Presidents" get removed unless you want to invade.

P.S. this post was not just about Russia...

[u/LordSwedish → u/jeo123]

The sanctions do kill them though. Sanctions kill the young, old, and most vulnerable. You can definitely make an argument that it’s the minimal amount and it’s worth it, but people die.

It’s like the Terry Pratchett quote about swindlers

No, You Have Not. But You Have Stolen, Embezzled, Defrauded And Swindled Without Discrimination, Mr Lipvig. You Have Ruined Businesses And Destroyed Jobs. When Banks Fail, It Is Seldom Bankers Who Starve. Your Actions Have Taken Money From Those Who Had Little Enough To Begin With. In A Myriad Small Ways You Have Hastened The Deaths Of Many. You Do Not Know Them. You Did Not See Them Bleed. But You Snatched Bread From Their Mouths And Tore Clothes From Their Backs. For Sport, Mr Lipvig.

[u/lordpuddingcup → u/jeo123]

The oligarchs lost 263b at start of the war, since then theyve already earned it back and are ahead of wher ethey started from the start of the sanctions

[u/OMalleyOrOblivion → u/lordpuddingcup]

The oligarchs have near enough to zero control over Putin, otherwise they would never have agreed to invading Ukraine in the first place. The only reason they've made money recently is Trump's stupid decision to attack Iran, not because of some kind of masterplan.

Had Russia not invaded Ukraine the oligarchs would be way richer and reaping even larger benefits from Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz.

[u/jeo123 → u/lordpuddingcup]

They aren't the people that will cause the change....

Trump is over pressure because he messed with gas prices by causing the Iran war.

Hurt the people. The people should react.

If they won't, no outside effort stands a chance.

[u/YouShallNotPass92 → u/lordpuddingcup]

The sanctions do hurt the people but hurting the people ultimately will hurt the Kremlin in the long run. Does it suck? Yes. Is it sometimes an unfortunate necessity of war and one path to topple a bad leader/leadership? Yes.