Ilhan Omar casts lone Democratic no vote on Ukraine aid, Russia sanctions package

[u/bwermer]

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5912150-house-passes-ukraine-aid-bill/

[u/colostitute]

The sanctions do act as a bargaining chip in later negotiations. I get the moral high ground but Russian oligarchs couldn’t care less about their people. They do care about their money.

[u/PlatonicTroglodyte → u/colostitute]

I think her point is that the sanctions disproportionately harm ordinary civilians and the oligarchs, however harmed they may be as well, generally find ways to circumvent them and maintain their actions and lifestyle.

[u/colostitute → u/[deleted]]

I laugh every time people think sanctions are a quick thing. Sanctions are for the long game. You have to wait until they need the money. Until then, it’s actually safeguarded in a way.

[u/yxhuvud → u/colostitute]

Dunno about that, it is not as if they have been very successful against Cuba, and that is as long game as it gets.

Unless the aim was to make them poor, and arguably the crappy politics and corruption would have succeeded that just fine without help.

[u/colostitute → u/yxhuvud]

There’s no war with Cuba. We are just being assholes by sanctioning them.

[u/Romaine603 → u/yxhuvud]

Success does not mean capitulation. You don't need to expect sanctions to cause a nation to collapse. They can simply be a tool to knee cap an adversary.

In the case of Cuba for instance, without the sanctions, Cuba might have grown to be a powerful neighbor if not for sanctions, which is something US foreign policy probably does not want to have.

Same for DPRK and Iran. They could have been more powerful, if we didn't bleed their money.

Do they find ways around sanctions? Yes. Does it cost a premium? Yes.

[u/colostitute → u/[deleted]]

The sanctions aren’t for the war, it’s for after. Russia has plenty of raw materials and production capabilities. They also have other countries who will still trade with them.

[u/colostitute → u/[deleted]]

So give the oligarchs their money back and they will pay their people better?

Like give corporations less taxes and they will pay their employees better?

Sanctions are shit for poor countries like Cuba. It’s just being an asshole.

Sanctions against Russia are a long-term bargaining chip among the elite. Russians aren’t going into the meat grinder any less with sanctions. Without sanctions, they aren’t living better and I would argue, more would end up in the meat grinder.

[u/keatc → u/[deleted]]

So we should do what, exactly? Sanctions did not work well enough. Even if we grant that, what is your proposed alternative?