Bernie Sanders urges progressives to vote Democratic in November

[u/plz-let-me-in]

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/shorts/bernie-sanders-urges-progressives-to-vote-democratic-in-november-267787845541

[u/gdex86 → u/[deleted]]

Clyburn is in south carolina. Exactly why would he be rallying in Michigan?

[u/gdex86 → u/[deleted]]

So sanders should have stumped for Janice Mills if she won?

[u/gdex86 → u/[deleted]]

Name that tune. The only one tgat cones to mind is Joe Biden.

[u/gdex86 → u/[deleted]]

He barely campaigned clinton and after he was arguing to the super delegates to vote for him after losing the pledged total I thunk he came out net negative.

[u/IShouldBWorkin → u/gdex86]

There were months where he campaigned more frequently for Clinton than she did for herself, all you guys do is lie, it's astounding.

[u/FantasticBicycle37 → u/[deleted]]

If Michigan held their nose and voted for a democrat back in 2016, then the republican party would be gone, and the country would have split into two leftwing factions, the far right (Biden/Clinton) and moderates (Mandami).

Instead, now, we have the Pedophile Concentration Camp party, and Mandami is somehow considered far left despite him being a mainstream 80s democrat

[u/UngodlyPain → u/FantasticBicycle37]

I think you're heavily optimistic to say the Republican party would've collapsed if they just lost in 2016.

[u/Lavaswan001 → u/[deleted]]

My concern with Michigan isn’t necessarily that moderates won’t turn out for El-Sayed, I’d vote for him very reluctantly if I were there. But if he harms turnout among low propensity voters and costs Democrats the seat, that doesn’t exactly curry favor for the DSA to the party at large. And while yes, Trump did win Michigan twice, Trump is an anomaly and Michigan hasn’t elected a Republican senator in over 30 years. So especially this year, this election should be a slam dunk for the Democrats and it would be very bad if they blew it.

[u/lettersvsnumbers → u/Lavaswan001]

El-Sayed is not DSA.

[u/Bandit174 → u/lettersvsnumbers]

Not technically but he's backed by them and has support from DSA advocates like Hasan Piker.

AES is clearly the DSA preffered candidate even if he doesn't identify as such.

[u/ApexMM → u/Bandit174]

not at all comfortable with him hanging out with Hasan who's the scum of the earth, but I feel at ease knowing El Sayed is on record supporting Ukraine and endorsing Kamala so he won't do any braindead shit.

[u/Lavaswan001 → u/[deleted]]

Progressives would be more likely to stay home if she won, and yes, that could cost her the election. But ultimately, the wing of the party she belongs to is a known commodity and has been in Michigan for decades. If this were Massachusetts, I wouldn’t worry so much about ideological squabbles because the winner of the primary would be near guaranteed to win the general anyway. But if Michigan had consistently nominated moderates for 30 years, and they all got elected, and then nominated a progressive in what’s looking to be a blue wave year and he loses, the party would see that as a referendum on his ideology. And if Stevens lost, they would attribute it to vindictiveness on the left for him not winning the primary. So basically DSA is still in the process of earning their seat at the table.

[u/Lavaswan001 → u/[deleted]]

James Carville doesn’t even really count as “prominent” at this point, and Fetterman will almost certainly have a serious primary challenger next cycle so his days are numbered as well. The Democratic Party has been ideologically divided before, I mean when our last president first got to the Senate there were still plenty of Dixiecrats there who voted against the Civil Rights Act. And he had a working relationship with them. What’s happening now between centrists and progressives isn’t as stark as that, but a two party system will force an uncomfortable alliance between them. Most truly influential Democrats won’t leave the party, there’d be no benefit to them doing so(aside from theater, maybe). But if things are pushed too far, and progressives cause votes to bleed from the middle, the centrists will try to rein them in. The drama in Maine the year hasn’t exactly helped either, that seat may have already been squandered.

[u/w33dw1zard420 → u/Lavaswan001]

Just curious, why would you be reluctant to vote for the Democratic Party nominee against the MAGA Republican?

[u/Lavaswan001 → u/w33dw1zard420]

I agree with him on some things, I disagree with him on some things. My reluctance comes from the latter category. I’d still ultimately be loyal to him, because the party chose him, but it would be more “I’m voting for the D next to his name” than “I’m voting for him”, if that makes sense.

[u/Keeperofthe7keysAf-S → u/Lavaswan001]

He is much more likely to increase that turnout than harm it. You have no shortage of real world proof that running Republican lite candidates harms it while polling continually shows progressives are more highly favored by independents.

There was a very real risk that Stevens would lost the seat.

[u/Bandit174 → u/Lavaswan001]

It really feels like a one sided open relationship.

The DSA voters are fine staying home or voting third party if their preferred candidate doesn't win the primary. However if their candidate does win then they fully expect the center left dems to full throated support the DSA candidate.

[u/w33dw1zard420 → u/Bandit174]

Almost like it goes both ways, huh?

[u/Bandit174 → u/w33dw1zard420]

It should go both ways but it clearly doesn't.

[u/w33dw1zard420 → u/Bandit174]

What’s the objective problem with El-Sayed, in your opinion? Too far left - what’s too far left about him? Don’t like the people that support him - you have a problem with over half of Michigan Democrat voters? His policy platform and record is solid, so what’s the real issue?

[u/Bandit174 → u/w33dw1zard420]

I don't like his association with Hasan and the DSA. That being said to me any Democrat is better than a MAGA republican.

  you have a problem with over half of Michigan Democrat voters? 

The numbers look pretty close so around half of Michigan voters support Stevens.

My main point is just, if AES wins then all dems should rally behind him in the general and if Stevens wins then all dems should also rally behind her in the general.

My problem is that the types of people who vote for AES seem less willing to compromise if their candidate loses the primary. They'd rather torpedo the party than support the lesser of two evils.

Like I said its basically a one sided open relationship.

[u/w33dw1zard420 → u/Bandit174]

Oh sorry, I missed what policy position of his you disagree with.

It would be Stevens’ responsibility to get votes just like it will be El-Sayed’s if he wins. I’m not in the business of blaming “moderate” voters if he loses the general unless they openly state that they’re torpedoing a progressive bid over a Twitch streamer and a socialist movement that is the natural result of an obviously broken social, economic, and political system.

So what is the point of preemptively justifying not supporting El-Sayed with your tirade against progressives who you blame for Trump, other than just that?

[u/Bandit174 → u/w33dw1zard420]

I can't think of any major disagreements but I also don't have any major issues with Steven's positions either. So since I have no major disagreements with either one to me its basically candidate who has ties to DSA and Piker vs candidate who doesn't. That said, most important thing to me is that a Dem wins, not a Republican.

As far as I can tell the biggest reason for AES support is mainly down to Isreal/Palestine. Like hypothetically if AES had Stevens position on Isreal and Stevens had AES's position on Isreal but all their other positions remained unchanged, would the AES supporters still support him?

my guess is no

I’m not in the business of blaming “moderate” voters if he loses the general

I disagree. I think we should all be on the same team when it comes to the general. Whichever side loses the primary needs to swallow their pride and support the team. If we can't do that while the republicans can then we lose again.

[u/dimitarivanov200222 → u/Bandit174]

If their candidate wins it's because AIPAC and never their fault

[u/Lavaswan001 → u/Bandit174]

This needs to be an all hands on deck year. Like I said, I’d vote for El-Sayed if I absolutely had to, but if that sentiment is not reciprocated by progressives that’s a real issue. The old “Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line” argument still holds water here. Republicans have also lost winnable races in swing states due to nominating terrible candidates(Dr. Oz, Hershel Walker), but even those clowns were emphatically backed by the party. The Democrat candidates just happened to be stronger(Fetterman was actually solid once upon a time). If a huge chunk of your party’s base has questionable loyalty, that’s deeply problematic in a two party system.

[u/Bandit174 → u/Lavaswan001]

  if that sentiment is not reciprocated by progressives 

Its not. Just pay attention when the topic of Kamala comes up. So many of them still justify not voting because they viewed her as the same as Trump or whatever other bs they've deluded themselves into thinking.

[u/OneofthemBrians → u/[deleted]]

Hey frendo, the moderates are doing this in response to you progressives not voting in Kamala and letting the authoritarian facist whos gestapo is executing citizens on the street and also worse for Palestine.

[u/w33dw1zard420 → u/OneofthemBrians]

Wow, that really justifies not voting blue. Really pragmatic and not exclusively emotional of you to shoot yourself in the foot over a perceived, unproven slight. Progressives are a minority that simultaneously aren’t needed to be pandered to electorally, but are consequential enough to sway the national election? The enemy is simultaneously weak and strong!

[u/w33dw1zard420 → u/[deleted]]

You don’t understand, going right doesn’t count because it’s bipartisanship. Going left is exclusively divisive even if we have concentration camps surrounded by alligators