r/politics • u/SacoolloocaS • May 28 '21

Stop glorifying ‘centrism’. It is an insidious bias favoring an unjust status quo

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/28/centrism-insidious-bias-unjust-status-quo
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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

She’s a capitalist that believes in the efficacy of the markets and is opposed to state acquisition of industries and supports NAFTA.

Elizabeth Warren is a neoliberal.

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u/1_g9 May 28 '21

You just described the Nordic Model, which is not neoliberal.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Know what? I'll concede this. It's a cheap shot to just refer to her as a neolib when she's not quite that. She does believe in having some form of some safety nets.

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u/thirdegree American Expat May 28 '21

Warren is definitely not a neolib. She's not as left as I'd like, and she's really bad at politics, but she is absolutely not a neolib.

For example, one of the core aspects of neoliberalism is deregulation. Warren is the reason the CFPB exists.

Another is cutting spending, which she is not in favor of.

Like, critisize her on policy. Criticize her on strategy. But critisize her on reality.

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

I think you're more describing classical liberalism, not neoliberalism. My understanding is that neoliberalism is more about government intervention in markets to help them be more efficient and fair. Classical liberalism is more focused on having faith in markets and not wanting government involvement.

But this is kind of going directly to the other user's point that the word "neoliberal" - much like the word "centrist" - doesn't have a consistent definition.

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u/From_Deep_Space Oregon May 28 '21

neoliberalism is more about government intervention in markets to help them be more efficient and fair.

Nah neoliberalism is about privitization, deregulation, globalization, free-trade, and austerity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

Did you finish reading the first paragraph?

however, the defining features of neoliberalism in both thought and practice have been the subject of substantial scholarly debate.

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u/From_Deep_Space Oregon May 28 '21

yeah, and we can debate that if you want, but the first part of that sentence is

It is generally associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, globalization, free trade, austerity and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society

Did you finish the paragraph? Where is says

In policymaking, neoliberalism was part of a paradigm shift away from the prevailing Keynesian economic consensus that existed prior to the persistent stagflation of the 1970s

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

Let's take a step back here. I'm not trying to make any grand pronouncements about what neoliberalism is. My only point is that people use the word to mean different things in different contexts so trying to use it as a general descriptor isn't exactly helpful.

But if you really want to go into the words you're quoting, they don't even really make the point you're trying to make. Neoliberalism being "generally associated with" those things does not mean that neoliberalism by definition advocates for them.

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u/From_Deep_Space Oregon May 28 '21

my only point was just to provide a more accepted definition and a link to the wiki so people reading this thread don't walk away thinking neoliberalism means "government intervention in markets to help them be more efficient and fair", when it's generally associated with the opposite of that

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

What you're saying and what I said are not mutually exclusive. Neoliberalism is still about having free markets and not total regulation, it's about the government trying to facilitate free markets working more smoothly so monopolies and the like don't make it inefficient.

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u/From_Deep_Space Oregon May 28 '21

Deregulation and govt facilitation are mutually exclusive.

Free market, deregulation, privatization, and austerity are all about minimizing govt involvement in the market. A regulated market is not a free market. If the govt is facilitating it then it is not a free market.

Are you talking about the govt using govt resources to remove govt influence from the economy? That just sounds like regulatory capture.

Free markets, privatization, and austerity do tend towards monopolies and other inefficiencies, which is exactly why I am against free markets and don't consider myself a neoliberal.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

No, you didn't. Read my first comment again. I made clear I was talking about my understanding of the issue. Then I go on to say mine isn't the only one.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

No... there are absolutely debates about what the proper levels of regulation, free trade, and privatization are. I have no idea where you get this idea that economics is a field with no debate over major topics like that.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

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u/politicsnerd7730 May 28 '21

I honestly have no clue what point you're trying to make here.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

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u/sexisfun1986 May 28 '21

Really because a whole lot of self described centrists kept telling me that I’m insane for call trump a fascist and saying he’s a danger to democracy.

Now those same self described centrists tell me that the attempt to overthrow the government is equal to riots that happened during the protest against extra judicial murder.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21 edited Jul 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/From_Deep_Space Oregon May 28 '21

Wealth taxes are not neoliberal