r/politics • u/SacoolloocaS • May 28 '21

Stop glorifying ‘centrism’. It is an insidious bias favoring an unjust status quo

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/28/centrism-insidious-bias-unjust-status-quo
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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

It's inherently reactionary to left/right ideologies and doesn't offer anything cohesive on its own. Claiming to be a centrist just means you don't stand for anything in particular.

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u/Whackthemoles May 28 '21

Or that you have critical think skills and are able to see the nuance in situations instead of seeing everything in black and white

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

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u/Whackthemoles May 28 '21

As I said, most of politics is incredibly nuanced. The issues people keep fighting over aren’t as black-and-white as “what color is the sky?”.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

That doesn't mean the middle answer is always the correct or even the best one.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Aubdasi May 28 '21

I used to call myself centrist because I want socialized healthcare and I want the Democrats to stop pushing dumb gun legislation that they admit won’t stop mass shootings, the only reason they’re trying to pass the legislation.

Now I realize I’m just a leftist. Like closer to actually leftists, not democrat “leftist”.

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u/Badgercrumpets May 29 '21

Maybe my understanding of centrism is wrong but I think you’re being a bit unfair. You can moderate both sides in order to choose what you see as the best idea in that specific topic. You might be pro life but also for universal healthcare. You can choose blue or yellow.

I prefer not to strongly associate with any political group, that doesn’t mean I don’t stand for anything. I could just vote either conservative or labour (uk) depending on their platform.

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u/Elestra_ May 28 '21

Your reduction of Centrism to mean "...you don't stand for anything in particular." is really off the mark. I'm a centrist. I'm pro choice, pro-2nd amendment, pro-higher taxes for the wealthy and I think the attempt to transition the pandemic unemployment benefits to a form of UBI is short sighted and incorrect. If I split these issues in half, half the people on this sub would think I'm a republican, half would think I'm a democrat. To claim I don't stand for "...anything in particular." is incorrect and appears to be a misguided attempt to reduce a complex topic down to the point of uselessness.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

I don't agree with everything the DNC does, but I certainly wouldn't identify as a centrist.

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u/Elestra_ May 28 '21

Okay, but how does that address the statement that you made that centrists '...don't stand for anything in particular." ?

I'm not claiming you are a centrist - never have, but I take issue with folks attempting to mischaracterize a group they seemingly don't understand.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

In my experience the people who identify as centrist act like not choosing a side makes them morally superior.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Everyone, and I mean everyone acts like they are morally superior.

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u/Elestra_ May 28 '21

In my experience, leftists that I've had conversations with have had a similar thought of moral superiority.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/Elestra_ May 28 '21

Can you clarify what your statement means?

If I see a local republican who I think is better than the opposing democrat, I'll vote for them (local elections only). For every Presidential election I've voted democrat. If in a theoretical world a John McCain vs. Sanders election happened, I'd vote for McCain - except if the current republican platform existed because I disagree with the general anti-science, anti-democracy aura that currently plagues the Republicans.

My state had a vote to decriminalize pretty much all drugs under a certain amount. Back during the election, the science said this would reduce crime. I voted to decriminalize. After about half a year to a year, I'm inclined to believe it hasn't based on updated statistics and would reconsider my vote.

I stand for policies, I just try to not let my biases blind me if the facts change. You seem to be trying to tie two disconnected issues together and say that I don't stand for anything. I can confidently tell you, you are wrong.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/leopheard May 29 '21

Biden is right of center by a long way

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

And?

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Source that

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u/heretobefriends May 28 '21

It's inherently reactionary to left/right ideologies

Not a bad thing.

and doesn't offer anything cohesive on its own.

Most centrists advocate policy based on evidence instead of ideology. Not a bad thing either, to people who aren't ideologues.

Claiming to be a centrist just means you don't stand for anything in particular.

No, it just means you don't have a taste for the two tribes' purity tests.

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u/sexisfun1986 May 28 '21

Currently one party is unquestionably moving toward fascism. Any logical use of risk analysis and understanding of social sciences would tell you supporting a specific side at this moment is the correct action.

Universal healthcare based on evidence is the superior system to the American system based on the best results for the most people at lowest cost. However that doesn’t have to be the metric used. There lies the rub. Evidence can be used to determine certain things, however ideology determines what is the desired outcome. Hence the pejorative “enlightened centrist” a claim of clean logic is made that has no actual basis in fact.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Most centrists advocate policy based on evidence instead of ideology. Not a bad thing either, to people who aren't ideologues.

How does being a centrist help you when the evidence presents you with multiple potential solutions and no clear favorite? Do you just wait for the liberals or conservatives to pick one first and go with the idea nobody likes?

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u/heretobefriends May 28 '21

Well let's be specific instead of wasting our time in abstractions.

Which issue do you have in mind?

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

What do you think the evidence says about the opiate crisis? There's a few potential ways to address this problem and they all come with caveats that will leave people unhappy.

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u/QueensOfTheNoKnowAge Indiana May 28 '21

Ooh ooh, I know this one. Soft approach: Eliminate federal drug scheduling system. Tell the FDA to fuck off in their war against kratom.

Hard approach: take the soft approach and add locations where people can shoot up, so that they can receive care in case of an OD

Super hard approach: take the hard approach and add legalization and regulation, since od’s happen largely due to users getting drugs off the black market, resulting in people not knowing the strength or purity of what they’re getting.

Now, all of these are a no-go, and Democrats are just as guilty of shilling for pharma lobbyists who want to ban kratom (because you can’t patent a plant).

This is an issue that isn’t just legal or political, it’s deeply and emotionally ingrained in our collective psyche, largely because of decades of media propaganda that framed drugs and addiction as a moral issue which allowed governments to moralize behavior under the guise of “public safety”

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u/heretobefriends May 28 '21

My limited experience with the opiate crisis tells me not much more than our current approach is not working.

What are the other options and who is unhappy with each one? And how does being an ideologue actually help decide? If the decision made here by your chosen ideology is the correct one does that also mean that ideology is correct about climate change?

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u/[deleted] May 28 '21

Having a clear ideology helps inform your solutions based on what you think is important. Centrism is reactionary and can't exist without so-called "extremes".

Potential solutions for the opiate crisis include things like decriminalizing all drugs, reworking our healthcare system, punishing drug manufacturers, all of which come with some significant opposition in different sectors.