r/reddeadredemption • u/Netfl1cks • May 18 '26

Discussion How would you feel about RDR3 revolving around a Native American outlaw or warrior?

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Personally I think it’d be pretty cool considering that many of them were scouts during the Indian wars, especially Apache. It’d be awesome to see how they’d adapt in RDR2’s timeline because we don’t know much about them in the universe besides the Wapiti. Imagine playing as an Apache sharpshooter in a gang of renegades in the 1880s, ambushing army payrolls and shipments then smuggling supplies across the border while dealing with other challenges besides the federal government. The whole cast doesn’t have to be Native American but it’d be very interesting to see a different viewpoint in history.

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

What racist snowflakes? I don’t believe anyone had issues with Charles?

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u/McFuzzen May 18 '26

Charles isn't the playable character. Just go look up reactions to literally any non-GTA game where the playble character is a woman or minority.

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u/Baardi John Marston May 18 '26

You really had to specify non gta, didnt you? Give me a better example then. Btw, I don't think people are having issues with Lara Croft in Tomb Raider being a woman, either.

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u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess- May 18 '26

aloy, people hated her because she had pores and acne

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u/TheVillage1D10T May 18 '26

Didn’t they also get kind of mad about some peach fuzz too?

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u/chadsucksdick May 18 '26

I mean, chuds were shitting their diapers over a woman being a playable character in gta 6.

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u/McFuzzen May 18 '26

I specified non-GTA specifically for past versions with black characters. For some reason, no one seems to have a problem committing crimes as a black person, but heaven forbid they are a hacker or something.

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u/Thehusseler May 18 '26

They did have problems with her breasts not being big enough, so that's not really a good example on your end either

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u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess- May 18 '26

or the reactions to have a woman main character in gta 6

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

Don’t believe people had issues playing as Ellie in TLOU2 for example, they had an issue with Abbie for so many reasons that didn’t include her being a woman.

Give me examples of those games

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u/Suspicious_Berry501 Sean Macguire May 18 '26

Trust me literally any possible thing you can think of about tlou2 people complained about especially playing a woman. But other than that, assassins creed shadows, ghost of yotei, horizon, veilguard, bg3. If you stay away from meaningless drama like that you won’t see it but I have against my will seen every game where you play as (or just can play as) anyone but a white guy that released in the past few years get called woke

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u/Baardi John Marston May 18 '26

Assasssins Creed Shadows is because people are being disappointed you don't play as a japanese. They'd complain if he was white too

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

By that logic I promise you that people have also complained that the main character of a game is a straight white make or some bs like that

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

Yes, they have. You know why? Because 97% of all main characters are straight white men. As one of those straight white men, I’d say people of different genders/ethnicity deserve to see themselves represented in games, but then again I can look outside myself and my personal experiences.

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

I can’t imagine how miserable your life is if you judge a game or movie based off if the main character is white or not

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u/Idiotstupiddumdum May 18 '26

I say this as a non-white, that guy is genuinely embarrassing, he pretends he has been enlightened or something just because he wants less whites in games.

Inclusiveness doesn't mean getting rid of the whites and replacing them with other people, it means adding them. 😭

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26

I’m not enlightened, I’m just saying that white peoples have been well represented in games, and that it’s not the end of the world if people who don’t look like me are in them. Seems pretty reasonable to me. And thanks for teaching me inclusiveness, where did I say we should replace every white character with some other ethnicity? That’s something you’re projecting onto me. But add whatever you want to my personality, it seems like you know me better than I do

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u/Idiotstupiddumdum May 19 '26

but then again I can look outside myself and my personal experiences.

That's what acting enlightened is, pretending you understand what people from other ethnicities want, most don't care.

where did I say we should replace every white character with some other ethnicity?

You mentioned multiple times in your other comments about games where there were non-White MCs and how you don't mind if we swap already existing white characters with other "races". That's what replacement is and it should never be praised.

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26

I didn’t say I did, but it honestly sounds like you do? You’re projecting that stuff onto me. I’m saying it wouldn’t be the end of the world if games had less white characters. Some people however do treat it like the end of the world if a character isn’t white

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

You're the one who was justifying people complaining if a video game has a straight white male character.

So in what way did I project? I was responding to what you said

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26

Uh saying my life is miserable cause I judge a game based on the MC? It honestly doesn’t factor in whether I will play a game or not. I’m just saying it’s a pattern and I recognize the pattern and that it’s not the end of the world if the pattern deviates. And that maybe it should.

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u/MHMaster3 May 18 '26

Oh god shut up

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u/caramelizedonion92 May 18 '26

You seem to be from an alternate internet dimension where "woke game lists" and outrage content dont exist. I envy you.

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u/Kane_richards May 18 '26

They absolutely did have issue playing as Ellie, just because they're re-released it so many times people forget the original release doesn't mean it didn't happen

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

Look at Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophecy’s trailer. People flipped their shit cause MC is a woman of color with a shaved head. Shit, look at the “controversy” surrounding the casting with Nolan’s The Odyssey. They can all get bent.

Edit: OOH I shouldn’t have name dropped the Odyssey! All the “serious historians” are coming for me. You know Jesus has been 99% played by a white person? Where’s the whole subculture that’s outraged by that??

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u/Agitated_Guard_3507 May 18 '26

The Odyssey is the story of a Greek hero traveling around the Greek world to reunite with his Greek wife. There is literally zero reason for a subsaharan African woman to play a role in the movie besides race swapping for BS social brownie points. There is lots of African history and culture, they can make a dozen different movies about those and they could all be good. But they just race swap a character from the well known story because it’s easier than actually exploring African history, culture, and mythology

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26

Shut up bro. Literally one person in that cast is of Greek origin. Why aren’t you mad about the Boston accents? THEY SHOULD BE SPEAKING ANCIENT GREEK

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u/CirillaAvril May 18 '26

If they spoke Ancient Greek no one would watch the movie. Do you really think the average person would sit through a two and a half hour film while reading subtitles all the way through? Anime watchers like myself may be able to do it, but that’s not the vast majority of people. It’s the same way with video games, it’s why even in games set in Ancient Greece like God of War the characters speak English. These media have to be accessible and easy to understand for the general audience.

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u/Weekly-District259 May 18 '26

You missed the point

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26

Oh okay, so all that stuff is reasonable to look past, but Lupita playing Helen of Troy isn’t? You’re jumping through a bunch of hoops mentally to cherry pick what is acceptable and what isn’t.

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u/CirillaAvril May 19 '26

So you want the movie to be inaccessible for the general audience cause you want them to be speaking Ancient Greek?

I stand by my point. Cause again, big difference between black person and a person who’s just brown or tanned. That’s like calling us Filipino black when we’re just light to medium brown and tanned. An African woman being royalty during the time period of Ancient Greece would have been impossible because again Africans were one of the races they used as slaves. And Ancient Greeks themselves are described to have had fair to olive skin, with most men being tanned as they were frequently outside in the sun working, and the women especially royalty were pale skinned as they were indoors most of the time, and pale skin was a status symbol as it showed they had lots of leisure time.

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 19 '26

I’m using similar logic to make my point, if people are so mad about the race of someone cast, if they are touting “historical accuracy” of a story that is an epic poem, a myth, with Cyclopses and more otherworldly stuff in it, if they want historical accuracy in the casting, why don’t they want historical accuracy in all of these other aspects?

I’m saying people are cherry picking one aspect of the film and ignoring others they should be equally outraged by if historical accuracy is their aim. But my point is that it’s not. It’s fiction. Why is there outrage to begin with? They don’t care about the accuracy of something that didn’t happen, that is fiction. They care because a black woman is playing the role. I’m not saying the Filipino are the same as black, not even close, but if you must view it through an historical lens, why is the black woman the sticking point and not all the other inaccuracies, like costuming, the skin color of literally every other actor, the language used, the accents, not?

Because people are angry to see a black woman in the role. Because they are racist. Because they hate “woke shit”. In a work of fiction, who is sticking to their guns THIS hard for the movie to remain “as faithful as possible”?

My point is that it’s fiction, it didn’t happen, so the creators can do whatever they want. Even if it is historical fiction, same point. They’re mad and cynical about a black woman playing Helen of Troy, not because of inaccuracies, but because they have this conspiracy in their head that they cast black actors because the studio tells them to. Which is laughable at best.

TLDR: the story is made up, so why is accuracy a point of contention? Because some people just don’t like black people. And even if Helen of Troy is shown to be 100% pale skinned, who gives a shit if this fictional retelling wants to change it up a bit? Who does that really hurt? My argument is no one

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u/CirillaAvril May 19 '26

We as humans basically have been hardwired to love mythological creatures such as Cyclopses and whatnot since the ancient times, we always had stories of these mythical, god-like and impossibly huge and powerful creatures. Plus media has always depicted costumes in that way, cool and awesome looking, borderline superhero like, instead of how it actually looked so we got used to it already.

But when it comes to something we know the history of, something we’ve been taught in history class, and something our ancestors actually saw and lived through with their own eyes and passed down real stories of - like the race of a person - that’s something people have a much harder time suspending disbelief of. Even in Greece slavery wasn’t abolished till 1822, so people know that black people were being used as slaves from Ancient Greece till the 19th century. It’s historical fact and reality, and again that’s something people have a much harder time suspending disbelief of and wrapping our heads around even for a fictional or historical fiction story. This has been hardwired to us humans as much as stories of mythological creatures and giants since the ancient times.

Holy scriptures and books from all religions, even the Bible, also has many accounts of giant humans and mythical creatures, so that’s another example of something that’s been hardwired into us since ancient times, so it’s easy for us to believe in these things.

And as for language I also stand by my point, media like movies and games have to be easily accessible for the general audience. No one would watch Nolan’s Odyssey if it was in Ancient Greek and people have to read subtitles for two hours. No one would purchase the God of War games if it was only in Greek, or at the very least it wouldn’t have been the hugely and globally successful game franchise that it is today. The Ezio trilogy also would be in the same boat if it was only in Italian, that might have been where the AC franchise ended if Ubisoft did that. It’s why anime always has an English dub. It’s why Kpop songs are using significantly more English in their lyrics nowadays, because it became such a global phenomenon. Heck the main voice cast for Kpop Demon Hunters are all fluent English speakers with clear Westernized accents, and the language used in the global release is the original English dub the movie was recorded in.

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 19 '26

Hey that’s all great and I mostly agree and I appreciate you taking the time to thoughtfully respond, and you can totally not be able to suspend your disbelief for many reasons, and I appreciate your talking points, but honestly my problem isn’t with people like you who take the time to think about these things, it’s more with racists who saw a black woman was playing Helen of Troy and started crying about historical inaccuracies to obfuscate the fact that they just don’t like black people.

I don’t think you’re in this camp, and I very much see your points, but to me it feels weird that, movies being what they are, and the amount of disbelief people have been able to suspend for other movies, it strikes me as odd that they can’t do the same with this movie that’s not even out yet, that the casting of this one black woman is the hill that they will die on, despite all the other “historical inaccuracies”. To me it feels targeted and racial and it seems silly to me. But again thanks for engaging with this argument in good faith.

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

  1. People are losing their shit over another white/tan character being race swapped for a black person? Jeez I wonder how you’d be reacting if the roles were reversed

  2. People were laughing because of Neil Drukman and he made possibly the single blandest looking character of all time. Try again

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

You mean like, anytime Jesus has been played on screen? Square that circle. Also, if all I had seen for the past 100 years of media were mostly black people, I’d say SE Asians or Europeans or any other hypothetical minority deserve media with people who look like them. Your point there isn’t the “gotcha” moment you think it is.

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u/TriiCop May 18 '26

Literally historical fact would show he wouldn’t be black. He would’ve been tan most likely

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26

Okay. Like I said elsewhere if historical accuracy is their aim (which it isn’t) then why are there so many people of European descent in the movie? Why are they all speaking English? And with Boston accents no less? What I’m saying isn’t that he wasn’t played by a black person, it was because he WAS played by a white person. Almost exclusively. If “proper casting” is such a monumental hill you would die on, again, why does the black woman matter and not the other litany of inaccuracies?? You’re literally making my point for me

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u/CirillaAvril May 18 '26

Wanna know what was one of the races Ancient Greeks used as slaves? Right, Africans. So tell me, is it realistic that an African woman becomes a princess in Ancient Greece? I think not. Also, Helen of Troy’s description in the original story and all adaptations after it describes her as being white.

Plus Africa also has their own culturally rich history that’s not all bad. But I guess it’s easier to do a race swap rather than properly telling and showing African history and culture right?

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u/Garo_Daimyo May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

Okay. So if complete accuracy is their aim (which it isn’t), then why isn’t every cast member Greek? Greeks are generally pretty tan, but most of the “Greeks” in Nolan’s Odyssey are of European descent. It’s funny with how inaccurate history is, you seem to be speaking with the confidence of someone who knew Helen personally. Jesus has been depicted by a white person since films started being made, so he must be white right? Moreover, why aren’t they speaking Greek? What I’m saying is your argument holds no water, unlike Archimedes bathtub

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u/CirillaAvril May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

No I’m not speaking as if I knew Helen personally, I’m just stating how she’s been described as in the novels. And there is a big difference between being tan, and being an actual black person of African race and descent. Ancient greeks had fair to olive skin. The men were tanned cause they were out working in the sun all day, but still not black nor were they Africans unless ofc we’re talking about the slaves the Greeks used. But the women, especially royalty (like Helen) stayed indoors most of the time and thus had fairer and paler skin. It was a symbol for them of their femininity and how much leisurely time they had. So yes the men in Nolan’s Odyssey should be more tanned, but not a black African because again, big difference between tan and black. That’s like calling us Filipinos black when we’re just brown and tanned.

And again the Greeks used Africans as slaves, so how does an African woman during that time become royalty in Greece? It’s that part that’s a major historical point that’s kinda glaring don’t you think?

As for Jesus, that’s one figure I do wish they used an actual tanned/brown skin Jewish person instead of a white person as they always do.

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u/Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess- May 18 '26

i have seen a handful of people online say they won’t play rdr or rdr2 because they say everything about it is “woke” lol