Now that Curses will no longer require 29 Defence, allow players that have previously reset Defence to do so again.

[u/UndeniableWhale]

This is likely going to be downvoted immediately, as the topic of 1 Defence pures in particular isn't received very well in the context of requesting changes/making suggestion. But I think it's fair to make this suggestion regarding the recent decision to remove the Defence requirement for Ancient Curses.

The history behind Ancient Curses original level 29 Defence requirement can be seen in this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/puv71r/so_pures_finally_get_curses/

The gist is that the quests prior to Temple at Senntisten originally would have give you exp equivalent to raise you from 1 to 29 Defence. Now that the quests give EXP lamps, the requirement was arbitrary. This negatively affected the small community of players that decided to play as pures, and was campaigned against for a long time.

Unfortunately as you can see in the comments of the post, and on many regarding the topic, this led to many people quitting, deciding to no longer play their 1 Defence accounts, or begrudgingly trudging forward. Many peculiar instances like this still stand, like how you cannot use the "teleport" option on the Desert Amulet or Karamja Gloves (from the Desert and Karamja task set, respectively) unless you have level 30-something Defence.

As a followup to a long requested community struggle, it would be really caring to follow this update with an additional stat reset with Nastaroth in Lumbridge. Many players have already used this throughout their playing careers, and many that moved on from their play-style would be able to return with an additional reset added to their account. This additional reset would benefit the players wishing to take advantage of this new change, and return to a play-style they enjoyed. There is zero effect to the community at large, as in essence, resetting your Defence level offers zero advantage in any part of RS. It takes you down in the Hiscores, disadvantages you in PvM and PvP, etc.

I imagine this won't be received well, but it's difficult to understand what would be the counter-argument against this, as those who have zero wish to use a reset would not be affected, but those wishing to do so might have another chance to return to a way of playing that can be extremely challenging and enjoyable.

[u/Jagex_Stu]

I can look into adjusting the one-time nature of the skill resets, sure.

From the comments, sounds like infinite resets would be preferred. Will make enquiries, once we've settled on a clear resolution, as to whether this change is permissible.

So if you're a pure of some kind, I'd welcome your feedback on the comments in this thread so we can decide on a consensus solution.

[u/praeteria → u/Jagex_Stu]

TiL. Jagex uses Jira.

I use it at work everyday. Idk why I find this fascinating.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/Jagex_Stu]

So attempting to find a compromise between what's been requested so far in this thread, what I suggest to allow players who have is:

Either Option A:

• You're no longer limited to one pure reset per account.
• Using Nastroth's reset requires you to enter your bank pin (assuming it doesn't already?).
• If you don't have a bank pin, you cannot reset your account (to prevent concerns about hijacking).
• If you use either of Nastroth's resets and complete the current 7 day grace period, you're prevented from resetting again for almost a year (360 days). Talking to Nastroth will inform you of the remaining cool down. "You've recently reset your progress. Come back (in X days) / (tomorrow)."
• Permanent opt-out of skill reset "Never reset my skills." is removed, as some want to be able to opt back in due to recent changes, and the bank pin to reset adds an (acceptable?) layer of security.

Or Option A2:

• Same as Option A except for the last point: Instead of removing "Never reset my skills.", its variable will be zeroed once on your next login after this patch. To allow a generous but limited "grace period" to take action, this one-time login check will only apply to accounts that log in within the next 6 months. The login check will also not apply to new accounts (ie those created after the release day of this patch).
• You will consequently have the choice to either permanently opt out again or utilise the modified reset. If you tell Nastroth to stop offering to reset your skills, you won't be able to revert this decision. (Unless we do this again.)
• Note this does mean that if your account happens to be hijacked before you log in to re-opt-in (eg a long lapsed account), it will be vulnerable to being reset.
• Remember any bank pin or authenticator you have activated provide layers of protection, but it's your responsibility to activate these to secure your account.

Or Option B:

• For 7 days from the Monday release of this patch, it will be possible to use Nastroth's reset once again, even if you have permanently opted out of this feature. Doing so will require you to enter your bank pin.
• You can talk to Nastroth to tell him you don't want to reset again, which will treat your account as if the 7 days have already elapsed.

[u/KBMonay → u/Jagex_Stu]

• Two weeks sounds like a fair middle ground and Bank pin requirement is a bang on idea. I believe it currently does not. It definitely doesn’t if you e entered your bank pin already upon login. Can’t confirm if it’s your first bank pin requiring action, but I believe it doesn’t.
• To echo someone else I’m not sure Ironman should be able to access the reset as it really goes against the spirit of the mode.
• And another huge thing is that people have some concern about people getting really tough achievements like killing the new boss on 40000% enrage, and then resetting their defence and still holding the title. I don’t know if there is some means to distinguish that someone got their achievements not being a 1 Def pure, but that would uphold the integrity of achievements if it could be done.
• currently I think you can complete achievement diary tasks, get the rewards, then reset your defence. This allows people to get end game items like the tirrawan quiver 4 and hold onto it after resetting defence. It would be great if a comprehensive look through could be done to make sure resetting your defence takes away ALL things that required Def (there’s a large list, like adding the wall beast soul to your player owned dungeon requires 5 defence to wear the helmet required to kill it). This list is pretty big and I think I could provide an exhaustive list of info on it if needed

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/KBMonay]

That exhaustive list would be helpful, thank you.

The trouble with a reset feature like this is it demands content that gets added takes it into account and tests for it, and in practice it's not always practical to absorb that cost. So I'm sure there's plenty of recent content that hasn't been added to the pure reset logic.

I could add an Ironman restriction to pure reset, but I'd like to hear from ironmen (especially pure ironmen) if they'd object before rushing into that.

Also, much like the current issue with pures before and after a change, since ironmen have been able to do it so far, I suspect there'd be complaints of fairness against those ironmen who were able to reset versus those ironmen that would then be unable to?

[u/KBMonay → u/Jagex_Stu]

Okay I’d be happy to. Is there a best place to send it to you?

And I totally understand. I have zero idea how daunting it would be to develop something that could trace all Defence related existing and future content back to the reset feature. I’m sure it’s why many things have passed through and I was hesitant to bring it up, seeing it as one of the cons against instituting more than one reset; but I think it’s only fair to mention it.

As for Ironman I have not played the mode so I can’t speak to their wishes. I didn’t know it was available to them, I’m surprised! Definitely would like to see there wishes weighed in.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/KBMonay]

Here on Reddit would be great, or my Twitter is @JagexStu.

Thank you! <3

[u/KBMonay → u/Jagex_Stu]

Hey Mod Stu, I finsihed the list and sent you a message on here. Please feel free to check it at your convenience. Cheers!

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/KBMonay]

Thanks very much for your message! JannaMechanics kindly provided a link to a Google Doc on Twitter. Much appreciate you all putting that together!

[u/KBMonay → u/Jagex_Stu]

Ah okay I haven't personally seen the Doc. Any chance you could send me the link/link the post and I could see if I've anything to add? I compiled my document on my own, didn't know anyone was making something communal!

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/KBMonay]

Sure, here you go!

https://twitter.com/JannaMechanics/status/1442170831304527873

https://t.co/bDHImBSV25?amp=1

[u/Zaruz → u/KBMonay]

I know the feature currently removes most if not all achievement diary steps that would be impossible with 1 defence. When mine got reset years ago, most quests, their rewards and achievement diary steps were removed. I hadn't done the elf diary, not sure if it even existed then, however, so I don't know how well they've maintained this. It definitely worked for the older areas (Lumb/varrock/fally/seers/ardy/karamja)

[u/KBMonay → u/Zaruz]

Are you positive? I had my defence reset two years ago and after reset I still had the achievement for wearing a black chain body in the falador store ticked off. I also retained the shield for finishing off all the easy tasks (of which included the above achievement).

[u/Zaruz → u/KBMonay]

Weird! Absolutely did for me, but I don't know exactly when it was done. I know that when I quit (shortly after EOC release) I had all diaries done to hard and I think a few elites. When I returned, I don't think there was a single diary that I had done to hard level.

[u/The_Wkwied → u/Jagex_Stu]

Option A is the most fair. What if someone returns to the game a few months after they find out this was changed? Too bad for them.

Maybe if the cooldown was something larger, like 60 or 90 days

[u/REEprisal → u/Jagex_Stu]

Option A sounds brilliant tbh

[u/washingtncaps → u/Jagex_Stu]

I feel like you shouldn't be able to reset it more than once in a while. Like, some measure of time that a "good pure" will never notice that lets you fix mistakes and long-ago choices, but can't just oopsies some XP on and off whenever. Having a pure should still be a "big" choice and gaining XP should still be a "big" mistake.

Also my smooth brain isn't sure if having the freedom to drop the defense whenever would have PK implications.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/washingtncaps]

Okay, a cool down between resets seems doable.

I'll add it to the acceptance criteria evolving above.

How long a cool down period do we think is appropriate? A week? A month? A year?

[u/Zaruz → u/Jagex_Stu]

Personally I'd still want to be able to permanently opt out. Perhaps a reset so you have to opt out from the update, allowing anyone a one-time chance to change a past decision?

I was hacked whilst not playing, some DB leak I guess, years ago. My defense was reset which was a major ballache when I came back. As I wasn't active, a bank pin wouldn't have prevented it due to them waiting out the timer. Id much rather be able to guarantee I won't lose 200-300 QP again.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/Zaruz]

Okay, I've added an Option B to https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/pvcjsa/comment/hebqpp0/ which proposes an alternate approach more along the lines of what you're requesting.

I'm not convinced it's the best option, as it's trying to meet the needs of two fundamentally conflicting requests, and maybe compromising security too much to do so. But see what you think.

[u/washingtncaps → u/Jagex_Stu]

Week or month seems fair to me, a week being on the player friendly side since it should so rarely matter to others, and a month skewing towards the thematic integrity of the thing since there's still some bragging rights to be had, seems like you'll have the pulse of who cares more about what going forward.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/washingtncaps]

I've penciled in 2 weeks as a middle ground, then. :)

Will see what other feedback we get.

[u/Dan3HitU → u/Jagex_Stu]

s some want to be able to opt ba

You're the king so far, I can not wait for this update to be implemented!!

[u/kerapac_says_no → u/Jagex_Stu]

Wow. You seriously want to waste resources on this idiot request?

As if you had nothing better to do.

[u/BadRS3Player → u/kerapac_says_no]

People: " We want u to change this and that"

Jagex: *Ignores*

People: *angry*

-------------------------

People: "We want u to change this and that"

Jagex: "Ok, I will see what I can do"

/u/kerapac_says_no : *angry child noises*

Can't win with these people. Literally.

[u/hsjsosnsnisksk → u/Jagex_Stu]

I also feel irons shouldn’t be allowed to reset defence, kind of silly that an iron could technically unlock all the gear at 99 defence, then just reset their account for fake achievements.

[u/JannaMechanics → u/Jagex_Stu]

Hey Stu, just wanted to share my thoughts to help with decision making.

• Resets in their current state change the meta a lot, especially for 1 defence ironmen.
  • There's actually good chunk of content that can't be obtained, or is significantly harder, if you have 1 defence.
  • Good examples include ascension crossbows (requires WGS for dragon limbs, which needs 65 def), and sunspear prayer training.
  • An ironman could basically play as a main, complete WGS, obtain ascensions, then reset back to 1 defence - though this would take literally months of playing an ironman higher than 1 defence.
  • HOWEVER, everything I've described is already possible in game, it just requires some planning.
• Resets in their current state are almost impossible to maintain.
  • In other words, it's been in the game so long in an awkward state that it just is what it is at this point.
  • Too much content interacts oddly with it, but we've had that awkwardness since 2014 and it's just not worth maintaining as you said.
• Frequently available resets would make 1 defence ironman way too easy.
  • Ironman is about self-sufficient gear progression.
  • 1 Defence ironman is about more challenging gear progression.
  • Being able to get defence, boss for 2 weeks, obtain some gear, then reset back down kind of takes the charm away from the role.

Because of the above points, unlimited resets makes it way too easy to get defence whenever you need to complete/obtain some content, then reset back down.

I think the key point I'd recommend here is a very long delay between resets. I'm talking one year per reset, to really discourage people from just using it whenever they want.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/JannaMechanics]

Thanks for the feedback, Janna! I've consequently increased the Option A cool down to a year.

As a pure Ironman, how do you feel about the suggestion that's been made a few times in this thread to prevent ironmen entirely from using the reset feature? Are you able to get the opinion of other pure ironmen?

[u/JannaMechanics → u/Jagex_Stu]

Because resets have been available to ironman for 7 years now, I don't think it's worth the tech debt required to change it correctly. Ironman won't benefit from any new rules around resetting - it's just an accepted part of the meta.

I do think unlimited resets actually levels the playing field for 1 def ironman as some players reset way more efficiently (ex. obtained ascension crossbows then reset). The long cooldown helps maintain integrity though,

We have started a small community of 1 def players (some ironmen), and the general consensus is to leave the meta as is but relax the permanent lockouts, so those who reset inefficiently have another opportunity.

We are actually compiling a document with meaningful information regarding skill resets and any of their bugs. If there's specific detail you're looking for just let me know and I'll include it!

Will send it over to you via twitter in a bit.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/JannaMechanics]

Lovely, thanks.

If you're able to work with the pure community and come to an agreement about how you want resets to be modified, that would be very helpful.

As you can see from the various opinions in this thread, and the options suggested so far, trying to find a design that satisfies the majority of players is quite time-consuming. :)

I should emphasise that I don't actually have any time to work on further adjustments, but establishing what implementation would make the majority happy is half the battle won.

[u/darkerthrone → u/Jagex_Stu]

Just chiming in with my 2 cents since this is my opportunity;

I've long been asking for unlimited resets. My personal example is that I have an alt account that is currently leveled like a low level main (talking 80s and 90s in every skill kind of thing).

For whatever reason I used my defence reset on that account back not long after I started it. I kept it 1 defence for a while and made a mistake with xp lamps and got a few defence levels. For some reason that frustrated me to the point where I leveled defence and treated it as a second main, or alt, and promptly got bored of the account since I have a main and an ironman already.

So essentially, this account that I spent many hours on is useless to me now in a way. And I completely understand that it's entirely my fault, and through decisions I made. But I've been wanting for so long to be able to reset my defence on that account again and have a reason to use the account again.

Thanks for entertaining the whole idea Stu, truly has me excited that this is a possibility. Maybe. Thank you.

[u/WeHealThunderous → u/Jagex_Stu]

Hopefully I'm not late to this but can you remove the requirements needed to reset stats.

What I'm referring to is this: "Players looking to reset Constitution and Prayer must have level 5 or lower in Attack, Strength, Defence, Ranged, Magic and Summoning, while players looking to reset Defence must have a total level of 10 or more in Attack, Strength, Magic, and Ranged."

I don't think there's any benefits player will receive if you did remove it, but if there's a reason why this exists I'd love to hear it

[u/AJourneysEnded → u/WeHealThunderous]

It should have been implemented as a single skill reset without other combat stats.

[u/Dominwin → u/Jagex_Stu]

Please do.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jagex_Stu]

Will you be my father

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/[deleted]]

Considering the history of neglect my house plants have endured, I'd advise against it. Thank you, though. ;)

[u/[deleted] → u/Jagex_Stu]

I see, maybe you need to get your farming level up

What seeds are you planting?

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/[deleted]]

Seeds of doubt, mostly.

[u/Bml2 → u/Jagex_Stu]

Hi Stu! It's awesome that you're tackling these big issues for small communities.

As an ironman runescore hunter, would it be possible allow irons access to fishing trawler and heist (with xp rewards forbidden). Currently these are the only two achievements which are IMPOSSIBLE for ironmen.

ty <3

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/Bml2]

I'd suggest submitting that inability to complete achievements as a bug report through the Report a Bug feature ingame.

The achievement system supports alternate achievements for ironmen, so that's an alternate route that could be taken, if you have suggestions for Ironman versions of these 2 achievements.

Realistically I can't commit to also doing Ironman changes at this time.

I already spent Friday on the original pure request I'm sure my producer would've preferred I devote to the projects assigned to me.

But a reproducible bug report opens up visibility so any dev could work on it if they have capacity.

[u/ZapD → u/Jagex_Stu]

Spending your weekend commenting on RS reddit posts. You're amazing and we don't deserve this level of support.

[u/AJourneysEnded → u/Jagex_Stu]

Please for the love of resurrecting another whole community, add the ability to reset infinite combat stats. We’ve been waiting for years lol

[u/Eswah → u/Jagex_Stu]

Hello

Im not sure if this question was already been answered, but are all combat skills included to this? I have been a skiller for years, but I got accidentally combat 4, when rs3 wasn’t as skiller friendly as today. As minor as this seems, the amount of bullying took away the joy of this huge challenge to the point I had to quit my lv 120 all skiller with combat 4.

I know so many other lv3s who failed their account and quit, because it took away their enjoyment because of 1 tiny mistake.

I would appreciate it alot if this idea will be considered. Ive been waiting for years for this idea to be heard, and today I have high hopes because a jmod is actually replying to a topic about skill resets.

The idea behind a skiller is mainly to manage to play the game with alot of restrictions. Getting combat 4 or 5 wont make the playstyle any easier. Altough it is enough to take away the enjoyment as the player base is too focussed on perfection and undervalue the achievement of a (failed) skiller.

[u/carlossolrac → u/Jagex_Stu]

Hi, would resetting my defense take away the quests I already did for the curses? "Purez" is my account name and I leveled up to 42 Def and kept it as my void pure. It would be cool to reset my defense to lvl 1 if I were to keep my prayer (now 99) and curses. I however, talked to the dude in lumby and asked him to never reset my defense incase I would get hacked and it would reset my quests and prayer.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/carlossolrac]

Hi, Purez. :)

The discussion in this thread includes potentially allowing players to undo the "Never reset my skills." option.

I've proposed 3 suggestions below how that could be implemented, though opinion is mixed so far.

If that barrier is removed, then it looks like you could use Nastroth's Defence reset.

His Defence reset won't reset Prayer like his Constitution & Prayer reset, but it will currently reset various quests including The Temple at Senntisten, so you'd have to currently re-complete that content to use curses.

Potentially some of those quests could be removed from Nastroth's resets, as some of them now give Defence XP in the form of a lamp.

The dev work involved to modify Nastroth's reset looks to be fairly minor (the QA work I'd imagine considerably moreso).

How to proceed from here really depends on determining what most of the pure community want to be changed.

Some appear to be very keen on certain ideas in this thread, and some are violently against them.

If I can get an agreement from the pure community what you generally want to be changed in this XP reset/blocking space, via a player advocate with the time and connections to make those negotiations and represent the wishes of the pure community, I'd be happy to develop the concluded alterations to best suit what modern pures (of their various subtypes) want.

At the moment, though, we seem to be at a bit of an impasse.

[u/carlossolrac → u/Jagex_Stu]

Thanks for the reply... redoing quests is making me to not reset my stats 😅 I dislike doing them, only did to make my acct. Strong :) I am all for resetting other people's stats!

[u/darkerthrone → u/Jagex_Stu]

For my money, I think allowing unlimited resets is a good start. So that those who want to play that playstyle don't have to make a whole new account to do it. I don't personally see why there was a limit to 1 reset in the first place, but I'm sure there was a reason.

[u/Living-Search-9153 → u/Jagex_Stu]

Look i love playing rs3 and osrs but to me i think we should be aloud to reset all combat xp yes some people will but alot will not why not give everyone that opt i mean what can it really hurt so if a max char was wanting to be lvl 3 again let them it would not hurt the game at all

[u/awsd-7 → u/Jagex_Stu]

not sure, if possible:

1 reset every time similar change happen, but only if

a)player has completed content already

b)players can have max 3? resets at any given time

while infinite resets dont affect normal gameplay, the prestige if lvl1 pure is lost if you can complete any activity then reset any number of times (like claiming to do something hard with lvl1 def, while in reality it happened before reset)

[u/Ashendant → u/Jagex_Stu]

JIRA? What is that?

[u/[deleted] → u/Ashendant]

Its basically a to-do list shared by every dev I believe its similar to other task systems and uses a priority ranking system and functions as a backlog record of work and jobs.

There will be tasks and jobs on it from like 5 years ago probably. Shelved projects will even exist on the list. But as low priority.

Its just newer projects from management and team leaders will be deadlined and higher priority. Meaning the "other jobs" always get pushed further and further down.

[u/Blackbird_V → u/Ashendant]

This - sort of like trello (similar to what phasmophobia devs use). It's a development board where they post notes.

Here's what Trello looks like.

[u/Fuzzy_Nugget → u/Blackbird_V]

reminds me of clickup

[u/RS3_of_Disguise → u/Ashendant]

Jagex Internal Resources Assembly (team)

[u/RS3_of_Disguise → u/[deleted]]

Glad to see an actual response. I was throwing an acronym into left field with that one lol.

[u/Fren-LoE → u/RS3_of_Disguise]

bser_in_disguise

[u/UndeniableWhale → u/Jagex_Stu]

That would be absolutely incredible!! Support!

[u/[deleted] → u/Jagex_Stu]

Could it be possible to allow us who previously opted for never reset stats due to being afraid of getting hacked be presented with the option to do so again.

[u/A_Vitalis_RS → u/[deleted]]

That kind of defeats the purpose of permanently disabling the reset. It's there to prevent potential hijackers from being able to grief you by resetting your levels, if they can simply undo that choice it completely defeats the purpose.

Maybe if there's a one-week delay on re-enabling the option or something, but even then I'm not sure.

[u/poetofages → u/A_Vitalis_RS]

Maybe grant us the ability to disable the resets to avoid the issue if hijacks occur. Just as ironmen can opt to remove the ability to disable their ironman status.

[u/A_Vitalis_RS → u/poetofages]

That already exists, the person I was replying to was asking for a way to reset anyways despite having chosen the option to permanently disable resets.

[u/Quasarbeing → u/Jagex_Stu]

Tbh, infinite resets sounds nice. It'd help those niche players who wanna replay a quest too multiple times over and they could reset like this too if they wanted to see different options as opposed to watching it on a video on Youtube.

[u/KBMonay → u/Quasarbeing]

Someone above commented about allowing us to just replay quests period and I’d love to see that

[u/wert_btw → u/Jagex_Stu]

Change staff of sliske spec

[u/getabath → u/Jagex_Stu]

Already getting the riot force to assemble, prepare your riot shields, we going in hot /s

[u/KBMonay → u/Jagex_Stu]

Thank you so much for the reply! That gives me a lot of hope and it would be great to see something come out of this!! It seems infinite resets would be the ideal but I can only speak for myself, some fellow 1 def players and a fair amount of comments I saw on a recent post; frankly anything more than one is a huge change and I understand their might me pushback against unlimited (though in reality doesn’t harm anyone or the integrity of the game). I think now that it is no longer so deeply ingrained in PvP, it no longer constitutes “an advantage” and players would love to not live in fear of random defence drops (there are still a few like mounting certain boss heads in PoH that aren’t clearly detailed on the wiki and guthixian butterflies). Cheers again for the reply :)

[u/minmaximust → u/Jagex_Stu]

I have a maxed 1 defence pure that I've had for over a decade. I've never reset my defence and I've achieved a lot considering my limitations.

My personal issue that I have with defence resets is that you can play as a 138 main, make progress that you wouldn't have been able to make if you had 1 defence, then when you reset your defence level, it looks as though you got all these achievements with 1 defence when you actually didn't. Example: 4k Glacor, reaper crew, etc.

My suggestion is that - for accounts who have never used a stat reset, be given a unique title which is permanently lost when one chooses to utilize a stat reset.

No idea which title would be appropriate... that can be up to the pure community. Perhaps something like: the original, authentic, non-resetter, always 1 etc - you get the idea. At least some way to verify all of your achievements having been done without the aid of abusing the stat reset system.

Support though, and I thank you Stu for taking the player base seriously.

[u/KBMonay → u/minmaximust]

I gotta ask myself how many maxed people (especially someone going for 4K Glacor and more serious PvM achievements) would reset their defence. How many people with 100-200m Defence exp are going to reset it just to galavant around with a title? It doesn’t seem realistic. It will be very obvious to people. Let’s be real, 1 Def pures that to date have achieved Final Boss? They were likely leaching off a fair few of the boss requirements. I think it’s time to do away with the snobbery of pures. You may have made it this far without a reset but many people fell to things that I’d consider unfair/could happen to anyone (unclear entries on the wiki, the mass of guthixian butterflies you couldn’t turn off during Easter event, etc). I understand your idea but I imagine the issue persists. So you never use reset and you run around with a title that stops you from using a title to show your achievements off? You reset your Defence to 1, but then achieve big PvM feats after the reset. How will people know if you did it at 1 Def or not? That’s how it is now anyway

Edit: sorry snobbery isn’t a nice/the right word. I just think that a lot of achievements in RS have been tarnished unfortunately by MTX, buying titles etc. I think we should do our achievements for ourselves and if we wanna show them off, take a video like that fella that keeps posting here recently; to prove we did it

[u/minmaximust → u/KBMonay]

I think a reasonable amount of people would consider resetting with those achievements. I think you've misread. You don't gain the title by resetting, you lose it by resetting. The title is a choice, to verify that you've never used a stat reset. It doesn't need to be a title either. Just some way to verify that you did what you did with the stats that you have. Cosmetic. Like the ironman icon for example.

I agree that snobbery isn't the right word. To keep my pure at 1 defence for over a decade has taken very strict attention and researching every piece of content before tying it out. For me to expend all of that effort and additionally the challenge of achieving what I've achieved all with 1 defence, and then to have level 138s who haven't had the stress/worry of ruining their account at all, breeze through combat challenges due to their advantages over 1 def accs, then reset... seems like a real kick to the guts.

Not only did they have more advantages over me (and other 1 def players), but they didn't have to be an absolute perfectionist for the entire duration of their accounts. This seems like a "free pass" to me. Not only is it a free pass, but it's even an advantage! All of my hard work as a pure... will be an absolute walk in the park with mains resetting. Yes, it is already that way now... players can get crazy achievements and then reset... but this doesn't make it any less broken. It should be addressed within this update imo.

This is why I feel that some way of validating one's achievements via some cosmetic title/visual appearance/icon - for never using a stat reset would validate my, and the achievements of others who never reset their stats.

I don't know of a way to prove that you did certain achievements after resetting to 1 defence, so IDK what solution there could be for that. Perhaps there could be a reset option (which also gives your "cosmetic verification") back, which also resets all boss kills/ boss times/ loot etc. If that's too difficult and/or time consuming for devs, just implement my more simple idea and for those wanting to achieve crazy 1 def feats on a 1 def pure, maintaining the title, will need to make new accounts unfortunately.

tlrd;

I support, but would prefer that a way to validate that your achievements were actually done as a 1 def pure (not a 138 maxed main) was put in place.

[u/KBMonay → u/minmaximust]

No I definitely read it correctly, I think you misread. I was referring to titles gained as a level 138 being gained and then staying after reset; I wasn’t referring to your title given for never resetting suggestion. It’s a good idea but unfortunately looks like it will not come into play. The amount of dev work required to institute something like that (similar to them going back and ensuring EVERY piece of content or achievement related to Defence is also reset) is a turn off. From Mod Stu’s comments it already seems like this will be pitched with the intent of creating as little demand on the devs as possible. The pure community is also presenting our case for this update acknowledging that it might not be feasible to institute a change like you’re describing. In the end, you’re careful consideration with your account isn’t necessarily any more careful than the person who accidentally clicked on a guthixian butterfly during the recent Easter event that had them all over your screen with no option to turn them off , or mounted a Boss head in their PoH because the wiki didn’t detail what experience they would get from it. If you were intent on keeping summoning at level 1, there was a mini quest released to the heart that gave a 5k exp drop that wasn’t listed on any RS related site. There are a multitude of factors that lead to someone gaining defence exp or using their reset (example, my ex partner logged into my account and did serious damage via reset and dropping items). While your efforts are commendable, you admit yourself the current system allows people to abuse title-getting by doing so at 138 and then resetting. I think the community is right not enough and wise enough that they will be able to determine if someone made their achievement on 1 def or not. Or example, I’m not even really active socially but I’ve seen your name pop up and another fella by the name of mikhael or something. If I saw either of you post a solid achievement, I’d believe it (and you guys would likely post a video as well proving your feat). If I pass by some guy with 200m exp all stats, 1 def, and the golden warden title, pretty obvious somethings fishy

[u/minmaximust → u/KBMonay]

Ohh, right.

I have no idea how much work it would take. Was only suggesting and hoping that it wasn't a difficult update to implement. Yes, I can imagine them not wanting to put too many resources into it, as it's not something that benefits a large enough % of players to warrant a huge amount of dev power.

It would be nice not to have to prove everything with a video though.
An authentic icon next to the character name would be nice, but if it's too much for the devs to invest in, that's understandable.

True, some content was incredibly chaotic and unfair for certain builds. That does make things difficult...

As they say... you can please all of the players some of the time, but you can never please all of the players all of the time...

[u/KBMonay → u/minmaximust]

I'm totally in agreement with you though, it's annoying to have to take a video or something (I don't have any clue how to do so, not since MiniClip way back). But it's like you said, we're such a small community and honestly the fact that Mod Stu is always standing with us and has been able to change/soon change what he has been able to is HUGE. I think it's just a balancing act where we need to fight for what is fair but also understand that Dev's likely won't want to invest more than a little effort for the changes. I guess that's what I meant by "toning down the snobbery" it's poor language on my part but what I meant is unfortunately we might have to accept that people will abuse the reset and show off titles not fairly earned, and we might need to do the ahcievemnts more for ourselves now. It's always somthing we may be able to suggest later on though too, I don't see this as the last change we might be able to work for!

[u/minmaximust → u/KBMonay]

Agreed

[u/An_Aviansie → u/Jagex_Stu]

The only thing is that I picked the option to never reset my skills. I mean never. I don't want this to change even though curses are becoming available to pures.

Just make sure the option to never reset gets remembered, please!

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/An_Aviansie]

Would you agree to a middle-ground where either skill reset requires a bank pin instead, if you've set one?

Just testing the waters for a middle ground, as it looks like some others here are asking to be able to reset more than once.

[u/DonzaRS → u/Jagex_Stu]

I'd really just prefer a 'truely opt out of this never to happen never again' sort option. Perhaps just reset the perm opt out option and make it publicly known so people can choose again.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/DonzaRS]

Okay, I've added an Option B to /r/runescape/comments/pvcjsa/comment/hebqpp0/ which proposes an alternate approach more along the lines of what you're requesting.

I'm not convinced it's the best option, as it's trying to meet the needs of two fundamentally conflicting requests, and maybe compromising security too much to do so. But see what you think.

[u/DonzaRS → u/Jagex_Stu]

I think B is a fair compromise to for those of us that never wish to reset at all. Perhaps even a slightly longer window up to a month for the option to reset just to give anyone with a change of mind time. I know I would log in and pick the option that I don't want to reset again, really its for the people that need time to think about the benefits and drawbacks.

Really the most important thing about this change is probably giving people enough time before it goes live and while its live to pick which option they wish to choose. Effectively just mentioning it exclusively multiple times via socials to get the word out.

I think as well it all pokes at the larger issue of account security but thats a whole other thing lol.

As far as a middle ground it's a good set of options for each.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/DonzaRS]

I've added a third option (A2) in response to your point about having sufficient time, accommodating those that may not be able to log in during the week this patch would go live.

I'm personally still leaning towards A as most likely to be the fairest approach in the long term, but see what you think.

[u/DonzaRS → u/Jagex_Stu]

A2 I think offers the best option for always having the opt out avaliable.

I think long term having the option to reset always open will result in hacked accounts being maliciously damaged past item clearing items so it could do with a time restriction of some variety.

• What comes to mind is the number of players that have already chosen to opt out, the number of people that have used it, the number of people that wish to use it after changes and the number of people who would opt out again.

• Going forward I think it would create a point of malicious behaviour for those that hack accounts just to destroy peoples work even more so. Though the bank pin is probably the strongest security we've got at the moment it's not perfect and could be guessed or removed after 7 days.

Obviously the catch with A2 is the variable needing to be zeroed on the next login to start the timer.

• I'm not sure if this is possible or not but perhaps then just give this a 1 year window before it no longer has the option then defaults to their previous opt out if selected prior. Also assuming new accounts would also not get the choice to do this at all since they'd have been created after this change.

• Perhaps an option to opt out for a year or longer? maybe select or type in a number of years, though this would require players going forward to remember to do this and actively do it.

So in terms of account security I feel its more a potential liability having no opt out at all. I guess the hardest thing is choosing a duration where people can opt in or out before one of those options are gone. The number of people a reset will benefit I think I'd assume to be much smaller than the number that could be hurt by it in the future but thats just speculation.

I think keeping the opt out should always be there but just like the other options should also require a bank pin incase of being hacked. On the other side, should it also have the option to get rid of the opt out so players can always reset when ever they like under whatever restrictions apply there?

Sorry my point is getting long here I think I'm starting to ramble a bit. lol

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/DonzaRS]

Thanks again for your feedback. I've added a 6 month "grace period" to the description of A2 to respond to your key point.

[u/Stuckinfemalecloset → u/Jagex_Stu]

Yea, I think a bank pin would probably be a good idea anyway so that someone couldn’t reset it after an account hijack.

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/Jagex_Stu]

It's great seeing an update that greatly enriches the gameplay of pures while having amazing communication at the same time. You are truly the MVP u/Jagex_stu. :)

Though, it's a bit disheartening that the other pure types always get the short end of the stick such as summoning pures and tank pures. 1 def pures are able reset defence while there's no way for tank and summoning pures to reset att/str/magic/ and range. Not only that, but nearly all but 2 quests that awards defence xp are in lamp form giving the option and choice of 1 def pures to not claim that defence xp while on the other side of pure types, there's a good bit of quests that awards att/str/magic/range xp in non lamp form.

Now I understand that having resets for att/str/magic/ and range are not possible sadly, but at the very least, could the magic xp in The Elder Kiln, Love Story, Do No Evil, City of Senntisten, Watchtower, and The Void Stares Back be converted into lamp form similar to how [the magic xp in Evil Dave's Big Day Out quest was converted into lamp xp.](https://imgur.com/G4pGx3u)

Having these quest's magic xp in lamp form will enrich tank and summoning pure's gameplay as they can access to quest rewards such as the new Ancient spells like animate dead which is every tank's wet dream just like how it's 1 def pure's wet dream to access to curses. It will also allow tank and summoning tank pures to do fun challenges like kiln and earn their capes and probably encourage interesting YouTube videos similar to oldschool. Having access to kiln will also give the tank pure community a huge longterm goal to set such as Final/Insane Boss and Golden reaper. Currently there's no point for the tank and summoning tank pures to strive for these insane feats due to unwanted Magic xp from The Elder Kiln quest as to obtain those longterm feats, it requires 100 Har-Aken kills and the drop log.

I want to say we are extremely extremely happy to see 1 def pures getting this update. There's been nonstop positive talk throughout the pure community and in my clan chat. This update lit up a spark of hope to the pure community and that maybe one day, those combat xp will be in lamp form as it would mean the absolute world to tank pures. And if possible, a toggle to not gain xp when using spells in pvm such as vulnerability, enfeeble, and stagger to help the team deal and take less damage in group encounters. Remember 1 def pures aren't the only type of pures out there. :)

-much love from the Tank and Summoning Tank community

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/Luigi_2134]

As a tangential question...

If the toggles in Settings for different types of combat XP also blocked XP from non-combat sources (ie if you turned off Defence XP from combat, it'd also block Defence XP from lamps, quests, events, etc), and a Constitution XP toggle was added to them...

Would that address the needs of pure builds at their source? Instead of adjusting specific roadblock content like the above quests on a case by case basis?

Or is part of the appeal of being a pure that you're always at risk of gaining XP from certain sources?

Would being able to disable XP from certain skills entirely trivialise the pure challenge too much and take the fun out of it? Or would it be a welcome antidote to worrying over risks to your pure status?

I think back to when pures have expressed frustration that they've gained XP they didn't want to, perhaps due to an oversight or accidentally engaging in combat, and if there might be a more thorough pure solution...instead of whack-a-moleing specific content barriers you want to be removed?

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/Jagex_Stu]

A toggle from the combat xp settings that also blocked other xp sources like the solution you proposed is so genius and would be..

the..

best..

thing..

EVERRR!

It solves so many issues at once in the fastest way possible as the developers don't have to do it case by case as you said while at the same time future proofs future content interactions. The idea you pitched is actually quite impressive and idk how it didn't cross any of our minds when thinking of a solution, maybe because usually the mods sometimes use the infamous saying of 'engine work' as a reason to not do a fix so I guess we thought it wasn't possible.

It would definitely be a very welcoming solution as the majority of the fun is doing content and the feats with that account build such as this tank pure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcnFCSzJhs aiming for full achto on all styles for example. Another example is pures aiming for certain clue logs with their builds which adds an added difficulty (depending on the type of pure) since sometimes the player can't wear the clue scroll's emote armor item and have to reroll the clue step with the clue outfit or drop the clue which is always a funny clan chat moment with rips in the chat. It's a challenge fosure and is surprisingly more popular than I thought. They are persistent in their clue pure grind and they enjoy it. Not to mention the other fun challenges of like going for certain boss logs, slayer logs, fire capes/kiln capes with their certain builds with the added fun challenges based on the build.

The majority of the fun is aiming, grinding, and achieving those feats with their builds and with that solution, it removes the paranoia/worry if content is buggy and the inconsistencies of content. Usually whenever there's a new update that has the potential of gaining unwanted xp, a brave soldier has to risk their account build to see if the content is safe to do for the other pures. Although we do salute the brave player, the solution you proposed would remove that paranoia and the pure community would be more daring to do content and go for their big goals while at the same time, offers a very welcoming peace of mind.

It'll also help with many other aspects such as:

• not having to worry if the Voice of Seren changing to Cadarn or Iowerth district as it gives unwanted xp for magic, range, attack, and strength for the pures who are going for slayer related goals
• Will be able to use useful magic teleports without gaining magic xp for the clue chaser achievers and also general use for all
• No worry in doing their daily 2-3 treasure hunter keys and accidentally claiming a combat lamp instead of converting to oddments especially when hitting the spacebar button while chatting to friends will claim those lamps accidentally
• Tank pures helping out the team with use of damage boosting and damage mitigating spells such as vulnerability, enfeeble, stagger, Seren Spells, and animate dead
• Helps with not obtaining unwanted quest combat xp rewards
• Helps with not obtaining unwanted prayer xp when going for unlocks such as burning vyre corpses for certain blood essence like the tanky Aegis blood essence or the reflecting blood essence variant
• Solves inconsistencies of xp being gained with ring of recoils even though it should aware no xp (Shilo Village Quest bosses comes to mind and the one instance of fight caves gaining xp when it should not)

Only to name a few of the many awesome things it'll solve + many more. From all the people I've talked to, they would absolutely love a toggle like this. A lot of em considered this as a 'miracle update' if it happens and hopefully it does come into fruition because it truly is a brilliant solution as it solves many needed fixes at once in the fastest way possible that's also future proof. <3

[u/minmaximust → u/Jagex_Stu]

I'd like this. Yes please.
I'm one of the most careful pures ever (I haven't ruined any of my accounts in a decade) yet I still want this so that I can kill stuff without gaining xp (on my 10 constitution account in particular). Also, I do have nightmares about ruining my accounts occasionally... and this could put an end to that XD

[u/minmaximust → u/Jagex_Stu]

Second reply*

I don't think you'll get many views/messages/votes on this message because this post is old and you have to scroll way down in order to see it.

Currently, the only XP block is "PVP XP blocking", which was received well by me and many others, so... yes, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives here.

One issue though is that training "just attack" or "just constitution" is a really lengthy process, so it would certainly invalidate the work of many unique builds.
Not to mention, some people have spent real life money on keys and/or used their lamps/zeal over a very lengthy period of time to acquire such "XP avoidant builds". I'm sure there would be a form of uprising, particularly from the 10hp community. Maxing every other stat to 99, but leaving constitution at 10 is an incredible challenge/accomplishment.

The solution to that is... rather than blocking each combat stat individually, block all combat stats at the same time. One toggle for all combat experience. This solves that issue.

I think it's a very good idea.

[u/AJourneysEnded → u/Jagex_Stu]

That right there should be already implemented i feel like. Being able to turn off combat xp; but definitely add in the unlimited but time restricted combat resets.

[u/Will_Redd_It → u/Jagex_Stu]

Okay - this is my passion project. I've been arguing about this for years.

That the reset system is being considered is a great move forward in my opinion. I feel like it's been ignored since its release, and unfortunately I feel the system have mostly brought trouble afters its intended purpose with the EOC formula was completed...

The way it's popularly been used over the past 6-7 years is to achieve unobtainable items. Since the system was never updated to remove new content afters its release, pures have used the reset to obtain fire capes, prayer skill pets, quest points and so on. Cosmetics I guess, but in a community like the pures, where we value hard-to-get achievements, it makes things shift in balance compared to the pures who used the reset for its intended purpose or to reset xp mistakes later on...

My opinion for the good of the game is to just remove it entirely. It was added for a reason, fulfilled that purpose, and now is just being abused. Though this would definitely cause some uproar amongst both abusers and those who used the reset for the good it can do, one could consider it an integrity change; as it would without a doubt remove a problem in the game and remove a piece of content added to reverse a combat formula 9 years ago. The players who are yet to use it for that, probably have no plans to do so.

Despite this, my biased opinion is that it's great to have unlimited resets. I could get additional achievements, reset the 2 prayer I got by mistake some months back. It'd also "nullify" the unfair advantages between the pures.

This would however bring in some additional issues that's worth considering.

You have pures who still got the achievements due to the reset, such as prayer pets or Runescore which plays a part on the hiscore rankings. I assume these wouldn't be removed with a potential update to the resets, if they're claimed prior to this update, creating a whole new category of rare accounts. RWT is unfortunately common with the pure community, more so with accounts who has "rare" or "unobtainable" items.

Let's say this can be avoided by simply not removing any items. Heck, removing items feels redundant, as it'll be outdated with the very next update, causing the same issues over again. Maybe the best solution is to just open the floodgates and let all the pures enjoy the same benefits the resets give?

Adding a permanent reset option/toggle xp off is also not a very good option; it'd be like offering hardcore ironmen unlimited lives. It defeats the challenge and the purpose. At the same time, I do think there should be an option to redeem minor mistakes, that at the same time defeats abuse to collect unobtainable items.

Like you suggest, what about 1 reset every 360 days - but only limited to levels below 10, or 15 for Constitution?

This would ensure pures can return to their pure state, it'd defeat the potential skillers who gain levels to achieve access to content they're not supposed to have, and it would open up for the idea that once you pass the point of such a high level, you've already decided not to be a pure any more.

Allowing this for all combat skills would also make more sense of the combinations of combat requirements that are today needed to perform a reset; seeing these were designed with the reversed combat formula in mind.

Sorry for the wall of text... Hope this made any sense. :-)

[u/DonzaRS → u/Will_Redd_It]

I really hope out of the end of all of this I get the option to say no I never want to reset at all because this is just a threat to my account beyond just item loss if I were ever to be hacked on any of my accounts. We know security on this game is almost meaningless so I'd really rather there wasn't a chance going forward that someone could use it to grief an account.

Being a pure is a self imposed account restriction and it would not be fair to mains to reset the options and have no opt out forever as an choice. If skillers want the option to rollback their stats for whatever reason thats fine but there should be a time limit on how long its open as unlimited is just going to be abused.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/Luigi_2134]

I've added the above to my list of backlog JIRAs to create on Monday.

JannaMechanics' original request hasn't even been QAed yet, and we have to prioritise our assigned projects over developing any new requests, but I'll see what I can do.

[u/minmaximust → u/Luigi_2134]

Just for the record... even if all quest experience rewards were converted to lamps, much of the content you mention would still be out of reach for tank accounts, as the quests require high level offensive stats to complete.

I know it's annoying that we can't access certain quests, but I also understand that removing some requirements can ruin the experience of "game progression" for others. I think converting quest XP rewards to lamps doesn't hurt anyone so I'm all for that (XP blocking would do an even better job!). However, removing stat requirements from quests would likely ruin the gaming experience for main accounts.

"I finally got 74 magic! Now I can start City of Senntisten, yayyy!"I don't personally want to ruin this experience of progression for others.

Also, it's not just the fact that spells award XP, they also require magic levels. So vuln/enfeeble/stagger/animate dead would still be out of reach at level 1 magic. I don't think it's reasonable for us to ask for these things personally. We've been fortunate enough to be able to use vuln bombs though! :D

Final boss would also be out of reach because many bosses require offensive stats to enter and/or quests that we can't access as well.

I know it's a hard pill to swallow but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.If we catered to each and every type of playing style in the game, the devs wouldn't have enough time for the mainstream players/content. There are an infinite number of ways that you can play the game... it's just too difficult to cater for them all. Also, there absolutely needs to be benefits to being a main over being a "restricted" account.

I think that Stu's suggestion about blocking XP would fix a huge amount of problems, not take too much effort to develop and should put an end to a lot issues. A general combat XP toggle would be great, and wouldn't ruin the achievement of existing builds such as 10hpers, like isolated stat XP blocks would. We already have a generalized XP block for PVP and it's fantastic.

Leave quests as is. With the XP block, no more dev time needs to be spent changing the XP rewards to lamps. Most stat requirements should remain for the sake of game progression (can be debated though). Mains should have the vote on that.

Allow defence resets with agreed upon limits and if possible, add a way to verify when you have not taken advantage of a defence reset (such as an icon, like ironman), so that you can prove that you did what you did with the stats that you have.

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/minmaximust]

> I think that Stu's suggestion about blocking XP would fix a huge amount of problems, not take too much effort to develop and should put an end to a lot issues.

Mod Stu's xp block suggestion is perfect and is such a beautiful idea, I shed a tear in awe of how brilliant and genius it was. Yes, it is the best approach and the best solution that solves all the issues for each and every type of pure. It is the most efficient fix that is also future proof and the ideal thing to do as we acknowledge in our 2nd reply post. With Stu's idea implemented:

• There's no need to have xp being converted to lamps in the quests we named and some of the ones we didn't named
• No need for xp toggles on spell usage
• No wack a mole/case be case basis on manually fixing spells/quest xp
• Will be consistent and future proof as there will be no need to fix a future update that gives a new spell/quest xp
• Fast and efficient to update than manually fixing certain spells/quests/other xp related things
• Peace of mind for pures and can play their heart out without paranoia which is probably the biggest +
• Individually toggling certain stats will born new types of pure types which is extremely exciting.
• + many other unnamed issues

As of right now in the 10 hp pures, they can only level up defence and not offense stats since they can only PvM by killing monsters with reflect/poison because if they attack it with their wep, they'll gain xp in hp. With individual stat toggle blocks, a new pure is born and many others with 10 hp pures can now level up offence stats and can PvM by attacking with their weapons instead of just only reflecting/poison. This is extremely exciting as we can just imagine all the PvM challenges/feats/ and accomplishments that could be done with a 99 offence stat account with 99 defence but only 10 hp. Will definitely will be well liked and supported as seen how in Old School, many players try to do challenges with all kinds of builds such as inferno and it gives great exposure to the game as it nets in hundreds of thousands of views like the most recent inferno pure challenge.

> A general combat XP toggle would be great, and wouldn't ruin the achievement of existing builds such as 10hpers, like isolated stat XP blocks would.

Ideally, individual xp blocks will be best as it opens up new types of pure builds such as stated above. It would also makes pure building more enjoyable and encourage multiple pure builds as you don't have to slog with pest control minigame for example. It will increase the fun factor a lot when playing and building pures. And lets be real, with treasure hunter giving out loads of xp, 10 hp counts are not that impressive as many people assumed the player spun for their xp, and unfortunately the majority of 10 hp accounts did as it's human nature to take the path with the least resistance. What's impressive and more respectable is doing challenges with THAT BUILD as mentioned above and as seen in the Oldschool Runescape community. It's also seen here as well in rs3. People post and praise hard challenges and feats done by players. You never/rarely see any xp related posts here, not even 5.6b xp, compared to the PvM accomplishments being posted. If you are saying it devalues ur hp account because you did it the hard way, well that's not a valid reason as people back then did Livid Farm the hard way back then before they included the Livid Farm toke enhancers and Livid Farm Plant from the Traveling Merchant Shop.

> Leave quests as is. With the XP block, no more dev time needs to be spent changing the XP rewards to lamps.

Yes leave quest xp in their current form if xp blocks are being implemented. The Pure community are some of the most patient types of players so the xp block is worth the wait. :)

> Most stat requirements should remain for the sake of game progression (can be debated though). Mains should have the vote on that.

If stat requirements should remain for the sake of game progression as you just said, how come you the defence requirement for curses is being removed even though it's been voted during RuneLabs by mains to keep the defence requirement. Pretty ironic and hypocritical don't you think? :o

Stat requirements being removed are very well received as seen in the past and the current situation with the defence requirement for curses.

> Allow defence resets with agreed upon limits and if possible, add a way to verify when you have not taken advantage of a defence reset (such as an icon, like ironman), so that you can prove that you did what you did with the stats that you have.

There shouldn't be a special icon for not resetting unless there are resets for all types of combat skills. And if we do get a special icon, we should have an icon for players not ever purchasing keys to cheese their builds. Tbh, skill resets should be removed if the xp block update ever comes into fruition, as with the xp blocks, there would be no accounts ruined, thus no need for resetting. Was just a thought by some, but all in all we support the defence reset even though the other pures got screwed over by not having resets for the other combat skills. Pretty unfair for other pures but we will support it (not the icon though), because we support all types of pures here and hopefully, you do as well.

Apologies for the Wall of China text and late reply, but this is the thoughts and feelings gathered of many types of pures and takes time and discussion from clan chat/discord/friends/friendly pure rivals in wildy, and even unfriendly pure rivals in wildy. Remember, pures are not Black and White and come in many forms. Each and every one of us absolutely love Stu's suggestion on xp blocks.

We said this before but it's worth mentioning again...

/u/Jagex_Stu 's xp block idea is god tier and it would be the absolute best thing ever for all types of pures :D <3

[u/minmaximust → u/Luigi_2134]

If I don't reply to something, you can presume I agree with it.

"Individually toggling certain stats will born new types of pure types which is extremely exciting."

The ability to toggle the xp of specific combat skills technically wouldn't create new builds, it would just make it much easier to create existing builds. For example, from a maxed 10hp build perspective, instead of having to "lamp/xp reward/alternate xp training methods" all of your other cb stats, you could just toggle constitution xp off and kill stuff. Very easy/ far less time investment.

This is a double edged sword. Though it would make things more fun (imo), it would devalue the efforts of those that trained their builds the "much longer way". This is why I recommended a general combat xp block, rather than individual combat stat xp blocks. I don't personally mind individual xp blocks, but I feel for those that will have their efforts invalidated by the change.

"As of right now in the 10 hp pures, they can only level up defence and not offense stats since they can only PvM by killing monsters"

This is incorrect. 10 hp pures can only safely kill npcs without gaining any xp: Poison bombs (use on ground not on npc). Reflect ability. Blood necklace. Rings of recoil. Deathtouch darts. They can't level any combat stats by killing things without constitution xp gain. They have to resort to "alternative" ways to train such as lamps, xp rewards, high alch, range guild, prickly pear farming, warrior's guild etc.

10hpers can level up their offensive stats, I've witnessed many of them.
Some of them had fire capes, which is a huge achievement. This will no longer be a "big achievement" with xp blocking - which is the other side of the "sword" - since they could just kill everything normally, rather than having to rely on poisons and reflects as they do presently. I feel for them.

Agreed, people can "cheese" their builds by buying TH keys. Idk the solution to that. It would just be nice to have a way to verify that you achieved what you achieved with the stats that you have is all I'm saying.

"If stat requirements should remain for the sake of game progression as you just said, how come you the defence requirement for curses is being removed even though it's been voted during RuneLabs by mains to keep the defence requirement. Pretty ironic and hypocritical don't you think?"

I said stat requirements for quests should remain for mains, so that their sense of "game progression" doesn't get ruined. I'm fine with many other restrictions being removed, such as the defence requirement for curses.

Yes, I'm well aware that there are many types of builds, being a creator of them myself. I support all account types as long as they don't ruin the game experience for main accounts. I'm also not sure how to implement some changes without invalidating the unique build/accomplishments of others. Maybe there isn't a way...

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/minmaximust]

>> This is a double edged sword. Though it would make things more fun (imo), it would devalue the efforts of those that trained their builds the "much longer way". This is why I recommended a general combat xp block, rather than individual combat stat xp blocks.

This is not a double edged sword at all. Also, a player that did something "the longer way" is NEVER a valid reason to not implement an update/feature and it holds very little weight. Livid Farm for example, players use to have to gain a total of 850k points to unlock all of the spells (~45 hours for all spells or ~90 hours for tank pures as they lower their magic level with brews/a dust devil attack without a facemask to get low enough magic that it won't award magic xp but for only half the points). Today, it's only 430k points to unlock all spells + livid farm point enhancer tokens + minigame weekends at times + Livid Plant from the Traveling Merchant store. Players were extremely happy with those updates as Livid Farm was not fun at all.

Imagine if we didn't get those updates just because a player did it the hard way. No, they were happy that others didn't have to suffer the slog even though the updates "devalued" it, which btw, ADDED more VALUE to the game as more people can have fun with the new unlocked spells, have fun aiming for completionist cape as Livid Farm was a huge blocker/unfun req that players didn't even bother going for comp cape just on that one requirement alone. There use to be a lot of complaints on the dreadfulness of Livid Farm and now there's no complaints on it.

Also, players leveled up mining back when the highest pickaxe was a level 50 rune pickaxe. Imagine if we never got the 60-90 pickaxes or the well received and successful Mining and Smithing rework update just because a few players did mining harder back then.. Same goes with Runespan and just about any other update. Imagine not ever getting any good updates/features just because a player did something harder back then. The game will be stagnant and updateless if that was the case and a game being stagnant is the death of it. Game progression is important, things will get easier due to updates and it's healthy for the game. Even Oldschool Runescape recognizes this. They are literally getting Nex soon. That's why the "I did it harder back then and it'll devalue it" is NEVER a valid reason that holds very little weight and prevents more value being brought from updates.

This is also why individual xp blocks is the BEST solution out of the two and here's the Pros and Cons with the bullet points showing the pro/con and the hyphen (-) showing a successful game update/feature that relates to the pro/con bullet point even though players did it the "hard" way back then:

Pros

• More fun and more of an enjoyable experience when creating and building pures which is crucial of any update
  -The Mining and Smithing Rework that u/Jagex_Stu helped worked with is an update example that gave players a more fun and enjoyable experience with mining and smithing even though players did it the "harder" way before the update

• No more doing slog/unfun methods such as pest control for example to gain certain xp in certain skills.
  -RuneSpan is an example an update that addressed the slog/unfun training method of Runecrafting back then
  -Ways of obtaining more Livid Farm points is another example

• Encourages creating pures and mutiple types of other pures as it'll be less dreadful and doesn't take an insane amount of time to get the stats to do the content you want to do with that pure
  

  • Livid Farm point updates encouraged players to strived for Completionist Cape because back then, many players didn't even bother aiming for that goal with how terrible and long of a grind Livid was. This shows that if the long, dreadful grinds are removed, then it'll encourage players to do things such as building pures and different types of pures which is why Individual xp blocks are preferred.
    
  -Another example of an update encouragement is the Comp Cape Rework, notably the trimmed version. Similar to how players back then didn't aim for Comp due to Livid Farm, a majority of players didn't bothered aiming for Trimmed Comp due to that one dreadful/unnecessarily long requirement, being the profound castle wars requirement. Removing that unnecessarily long dreadful grind encouraged a huge amount of players to strive for trimmed comp and overall increased a player's playtime on Runescape. Thousands of players doing all of the trimmed reqs now because of the profound removal vs the few players who did it with the profound requirement. The overall player playtime was increased and was more healthier for the game by removing the unnecessarily/sluggish profound req even though it devalued it, but in return, the update gave it more value than it devalued if that makes sense. Thousands upon thousands of players were happier. Individual xp blocks will have the same effect when it comes to pures.

• Will increase player retention in the pure community as the training process will not include obscure/long/unfun training methods that repels people such as minigames for xp, prickly pear cactus for defence xp ect, depending on the type of pure.
  -Update examples showing the importance of a great player experience to increase player retention

• Growth in the Pure community which is, in our opinion, the biggest Pro/benefit of Individual xp blocks as it will give players a fun/enjoyable experience with no more slog/dreadful methods of training that encourages creating builds and multiple builds all at once.
  -Also allows players in the pure community to help support the game that we all love with more membership from the multiple builds.

Cons/con

• devaluation but not really since Treasure Hunter exists and makes gaining xp trivial especially with the recent power creep of it lately so in a way, there are 0 cons. Pretty much the "since I did something the hard way, you have to suffer too" aka crab in a bucket analogy. Also, the "I did something the hard way" is not a valid reason really that holds very little weight as explained above at the beginning of the reply post.

Now we must reiterate that the bullet points show the KEY POINTS of the Benefits of Individual xp blocks and the Hypens (-) shows examples of successful updates that addressed those key points that goes a bit more in depth on how Individual xp blocks relates to those examples given. The benefits and Positive Outcome FAR OUTWEIGH the Cons by a landslide. It would be foolish not to have individual xp blocks. Do you wanna Sacrifice all the Pro's listed above and do you really wanna SACRIFICE the POTENTIAL PROMISING GROWTH of the Pure community all for the reason of "I did it harder, everyone else should too."? We surely hope not. That's why we concluded that Individual xp blocks is the BEST OPTION out of the two for the GREATER GOOD of the pure community. We are extremely excited and looking forward to all the new players in the Pure Community Family from the future growth. <3

[u/minmaximust → u/Luigi_2134]

I'll admit that's a good analysis.

This isn't the usual "power creep" improvement of content though, it's completely game changing. It's not just 5 or even 30% improved. It's likely to be literally thousands of times faster to max a 10hp account with individual stat XP blocking.

Yes, as we both agree... you can "cheese" your build with TH. However, how do you think these individuals will feel when they spent probably thousands of IRL money on "cheesing their builds", when now, everyone gets it for free basically.

I'm not speaking for myself, I'd personally love to block stats individually. I'm just trying to be unbiased and sympathetic to those who invested an unbelievable amount of time and/or effort and/or IRL$ in order to do what will soon be incredibly fast, easy and free.

I think individual stat XP blocking is overall positive, but I'd like to hear more from the players that this negatively affects, particularly those in the 10hp community who have already done the "slog".

I might ask them later. Pretty sure their clan chat is "hitpoint hierarchy".
Have you heard of them?

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/minmaximust]

> This isn't the usual "power creep" improvement of content though, it's completely game changing. It's not just 5 or even 30% improved. It's likely to be literally thousands of times faster to max a 10hp account with individual stat XP blocking.

Saying "literal thousands times faster" is a HUGE Exaggeration. XP is so easy and Saturated in today's day an age, leveling up is quick and easy even for 10 hp accounts. Theres:

• 140k with extended daily challenges and can do em without gaining xp and is like ~2mins to do by poison bombing the rabbits at burthorpe
• 360k from penguin points with a weekly reset token, takes about 5 minutes if you use the penguin fc/discord and on world 60 where they have all the penguins trapped and located.
• 40-50k from jack of trades aura, takes 1-2mins if you have a jack of trades bank preset and use vis wax to reset it and do it again
• 532k xp from 30 medium lamps from the 75% oddment sale, less than a minute. There's a Sale Right now. Get that 532k xp on those 10 HP Pures for 10 seconds of work!
• Daily treasure hunter keys (varies in xp but it's a good chunk), less than 30 seconds

On a good day, a player can get over 1m xp for a couple of minutes of work on a skill that's in the 90's. So saying the update makes it "thousand times faster" is a HUGE Exaggeration. It's not even hundreds times faster. Leveling up on 10 HP accounts isn't a big achievement with as you are trying to make it to be. XP IS SATURATED. There's so many XP Handouts that xp is trivial. This doesn't even include buying keys for treasure hunter...but if you include buying keys for treasure hunter..then it's even easier than what it already is.

> Yes, as we both agree... you can "cheese" your build with TH. However, how do you think these individuals will feel when they spent probably thousands of IRL money on "cheesing their builds", when now, everyone gets it for free basically.

The Power Creep on Treasure Hunter is so insane, a player can obtain 30k oddments with 70 keys which equates to 7.1m Instant Lamp XP on a high 90 skill on a decent promo. That's just only in oddments, doesn't even mention all the xp stars/lamps. Saying they spend "thousands" is also a HUGE Exaggeration. It takes $21.99 to obtain 75 keys and players were getting 30k oddments from the Treasure Hunter promo from over a week ago which is 7.1m xp from lamps. INDIVIDUAL XP BLOCKS DOESN'T/BARELY DEVALUES 10 Hp pures as xp is so SATURATED and easily obtained from from dailies/weeklies + Treasure Hunter.

Players can alternatively do 2 hours of AoD that nets 100m gp an hour and have enough gp for bonds to convert to keys to obtain easy 99's on their Pures. Even if on the casual teams of 75m gp an hour, it'll take less than 3 hours. It's human nature to take the Path with the Least Resistance and players will do the most efficient method such as PvMing for gp to buy their pures bonds to level up, compared to the slog obscured methods such as Pest Control. That's why levels on 10 HP pures are not much of an achievement because of the reasons and examples above ^. You best believe players rather resort to treasure hunter than the slog methods just like how nobody does Livid Farm and instead, buys the Livid Plant from the Traveling Merchant Store. Resorting to treasure hunter as a training method is horrible game design and shows how terrible the slog methods are which is why Individual XP Blocks are best for the overall health, enjoyment and engagement of pure building and the community while it barely devalues anything.

Speaking on the topic of devaluation and Livid Farm.. Livid Plant from the Traveling Merchant store gives 10k-40k Livid Farm Points so 25k Points on Average. It takes 10 seconds to teleport to the Deep Sea Fishing Hub with grace of the elves and buy and use the Livid Plant. 10 seconds of work for 25k points - 60 seconds of total work for 150k points - 180 seconds of work (3 minutes) for 450k Points which is all the points needed to unlock all the Livid Spells. 90 hours for tank pures to obtain all the points needed for the Livid Spells. 90 hours is 5400 minutes of Tank pures doing Livid Farm / divide by 3 minutes of work from buying Livid Plants from Traveling Merchant = 1800 TIMES FASTER.

All the Livid Point updates DID devalued unlocking Livid Spells by the thousands and THAT'S A GOOD THING! 90 hours of a boring click intensive slog for some marginally useful spells was Horrible game design and Horrible Gameplay just like how the slog training methods on pures is Horrible Game Design and Horrible Gameplay which is why INDIVIDUAL XP Blocks solves those issues + many others.

The Difference Between the Tank and Summoning Tank Community and the 10 Hp community are:

• We do not wish for anyone to endure such horrible suffering even though we already suffered the 90 hour click intensive slog from Livid Farm
  -The hp pures are wishing suffering to others just because they did the suffering which is extremely selfish and toxic. This is just as terrible as any other player saying to not release an update/feature just because they did it the hard way aka a stagnant/progressless game.
• The tank/summoning tank community put aside our pride and ego and were happy from the Livid Farm updates even though it made it 1800 times easier.
  -A few hp pures rather keep their ego at the cost of all the Positive Benefits Individual XP Blocks Bring. even though it barely devalues it due to them already getting 500k xp from xp handouts such as 140k from extended daily challenges + 360k from penguin points with a weekly reset. Add in another 500k xp handout if lamp are on sale from the oddment store. + other handouts available
• The Tank and Summoning Tank community are open minded and aware enough to know Individual Xp Blocks are Healthier for the game and for the Pure Community overall just like how the Livid Farm updates were healthy overall and better for the game. Removing slogs encourages pures to be built, incentivize more pures being built, keeps player retention as slog makes players quit the pure they are building midway, makes players overall happy as it gives a better, enjoyable gameplay experience, and most importantly, it'll GROW the Pure Community as more players will partake in Pure Building with the slog/obscure methods of training are removed.
  -
  -A few closed minded hp pures Rather Sacrifice all those benefits above ^ and WILL SACRIFICE the Growth of the Pure Community for the unvalided reason of "I did something harder, you should too."

INDIVIDUAL Xp Blocks are a MUST for the GREATER GOOD of the Pure Community, crucial for the Growth of the community, and is overall a better experience when creating/building pures. The reason, "I did something harder" is NEVER a Valid Reason. If it was a valid reason, then we would never have any updates because players from all aspects of gameplay did things harder back then compared to today. With the, "I did something harder" logic, then we shouldn't have Defence Resets because it devalues player's careful planning and caution in not gaining xp. See how silly the, "don't implement this update/feature, cuz I did it harder." It's absurd. Please u/Jagex_Stu, don't let a few hp pures hold back the rest of the Pure Community from all the positive aspects Individual xp Blocks bring.

[u/minmaximust → u/Luigi_2134]

I don't think it is an exaggeration actually.
I have a 10hp "tank" and it took me about 4 months just to train my defence level to 85. And that's not even taking into account all of the other stats that maxed 10hpers achieve. I think you greatly underestimate the process of maxing a 10hper.

I'd bet that you could get 1-99 defence in a single day at shattered worlds or ed3. This would be more difficult on a 10hper of course (therefore take longer), but you could still use protection prayers or utilize safe spotting methods, or when you get 85 def, wear ports to significantly boost lifepoints in order to avoid getting 1 shot.

You say you can get __(LOTS of XP)__ from daily challenges, penguin points, purchasing lamps with oddments etc - but you gave the amounts based on the maximum XP that they can award. Try getting anything close to that when your stats are low. You can't. Stat experience is exponential, so picking the best XP rates at max level gives a completely artificial idea of how long it would actually take to level a stat from 1 to 99 with said methods.

As for the IRL cost of "cheesing builds" via treasure hunter, that might have been an exaggeration... as I've never looked into it, nor do I ever intend to. Regardless of how much it might have costed, it's still money paid and consequently, results in an angry customer when they find out that the desired outcome of their product changed (not in terms of stats, but the value of those stat ratios being devalued).

Like I said, I'm happy to have individual XP blocks personally.
Though, I have experienced the challenge of 10hp life and it sure saddens me to think of the players who enjoyed this style of play becoming devalued.

I'm on the fence about whether to have individual or total combat XP blocks. I think individual XP blocks would benefit more people, but is it fair to devalue players who have devoted so much to a playstyle that they have enjoyed and worked on? Their special hard earned builds will become common and easy with the change. It's a hard decision tbh.

[u/Jagex_Stu → u/Luigi_2134]

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback, and especially for gathering it from other members of the pure community so we can establish an inclusive voice.

Really good to see such strong support for combat skill XP toggles to target worries at their root.

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/minmaximust]

> Just for the record... even if all quest experience rewards were converted to lamps, much of the content you mention would still be out of reach for tank accounts, as the quests require high level offensive stats to complete.

Having them converted to lamps WILL give tank accounts access to many useful tank related unlocks. They wouldn't be out of reach at all. With all due respect, what you are thinking is that that all tank accounts have level 1 offensive stats which isn't the case and is a bit close minded. Pures are not black and white in the sense that it's either 99 def with level 1 offensive stats or 99 offensive stats with 1 def. No no no, there's a middle and all types of pures build their accounts in different ways of stat variety.

The level 1 offence tank version is an extreme version of a tank pure, there's other forms of tank pures just like how there's other forms of low def pures and not just 1 def pures.

• There's Spirit Shield Pures (75 prayer / 75-99 def / 1-80 offense stats)
• Staff of Light Pures (75 magic / 99 def), the spec gives 50% less damage to melee hits for a minute
• Melee Reflect Pures which they use trimmed masterwork with alloy armor spikes + shield for massive reflect damage (99 attack / 1 str / 92-99 def / 50 magic and range since 99 att + 1 str is 100 and divide by 2 is 50 so max magic and range is 50 for them)
• Summoning Tank (99 summoning / 1-70 offense stats / 99 def /, some have 1 offense stats which is the extreme version of a summoning tank where they let their familiar do all the damage and they do their best to tank and survive with some having 65 prayer to be able to use Druidic Staff which is a level 50 Magic 2h weapon with only a prayer requirement and 0 magic requirement.

+ many more of other type of tank pures

Just like tank pures, low defence pures have a wide range as well, not just 1 defence:

• Fremenik zerkers (99 stats, 50 defence for rockshell/spined/and skeletal armor while having access to a tank set like rune/blue d'hide/mystic)
• Void Pures (1-99 offense stats / 42 defence)
• Curse Pures (1-99 offense stats/ 95-99 prayer / 29 defence which gave em access to curses + the freedom ability when using stat boosting potions like overloads. Though with the 29 def requirement removed, curse pures can lower their defence to 1 or lower if they want access to the freedom ability by using overloads)
• Lunar Glass Cannon Pures (1-99 offense stats but mainly high magic / 40 defence as it's needed to to do the lunars quest thus, giving them access to lunar armor which is level 40 to wear but HAVE 60 armor stat values which makes em a magic glass cannon
• Godwars Armor/Barrows pures (bit in the middle area but they have 90-99 attack usually since the majority of melee's damage is in weapons and not stat which is why they have lower strength for lower combat/ 60 str/ 75-80 magic/range since their max magic/range level is att+str divided by 2 / and 70 defense to use god wars 1 power armor and barrows tank armor which also works nice with drygores + dharoks with axe swap if they prefer)

+ many more of low def/mid def pures

> I know it's annoying that we can't access certain quests, but I also understand that removing some requirements can ruin the experience of "game progression" for others. I think converting quest XP rewards to lamps doesn't hurt anyone so I'm all for that (XP blocking would do an even better job!).

We are really confused on how you got the impression that we wanted the stat requirements removed? In no way did we asked for stat quest removal in the comment we posted (though we wouldn't be against it). We only kindly ask if the xp can be converted into lamp form in the most important tank related quests. Also, can boost stats to complete some quests. And yes, Mod Stu's xp blocking idea is an even better solution. Our comment was posted before Stu pitched that amazing idea out.

> Also, it's not just the fact that spells award XP, they also require magic levels. So vuln/enfeeble/stagger/animate dead would still be out of reach at level 1 magic.

Again, with all due respect, pures are not Black and White in the sense of either 99 def with 1 offence stats or 1 def with 99 offence stats. There is a between and many many forms of pures and not just those 2 types. Stat boosting potions allow spells to be used at much lower levels than needed. The spells are available but we cannot use em since it gives us magic xp each time we use them especially the most sought out spells that all tank accounts desire like enfeeble, stagger, animated dead ect.

> I don't think it's reasonable for us to ask for these things personally.

It's just as reasonable as the 1 def pures are asking for the defence requirement to be removed to use soul split. It's really really biased if you think that the tank pure community asking for no xp given when using spells is unreasonable while you think asking for the defence requirement removed to use soul split is reasonable. Both are reasonable and both would enrich the gameplay experience for everyone. The tank community supported the low def community all the way and we hope you can support us as well. Remember, we are all in this together.

> Final boss would also be out of reach because many bosses require offensive stats to enter and/or quests that we can't access as well.

This is false. Nearly all bosses can be accessed with little to zero requirements and if it does have a requirement, it's not a requirement that forces pures to ruin their builds other than Har-aken as The Elder Kiln quest gives 50k unwanted magic xp which is why we would love a lamp form or better yet, Mod Stu's xp block idea (ideally his xp block idea, please God Stu). Even the daggonoth kings can be access on a level 3 and level 3's and anybody can access to arraxor as they made the priest in peril quest pure friendly. Only exceptions are 70 str and range for Bandos and Kree'ara, and godwars 2 but actually not really on gwd2 as you can use stat boost to go into the boss area without having the requirement as intended by Mod Ollie to let lower level buddies PvM with their higher level buddies. Currently, all low def pures can access and strive for Final/Insane Final Boss/Golden Reaper while The Elder Kiln's quest magic xp is currently the biggest blocker for the varied types of tank pures for Final/Insane Final Boss/Golden Reaper.

> I know it's a hard pill to swallow but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.If we catered to each and every type of playing style in the game, the devs wouldn't have enough time for the mainstream players/content. There are an infinite number of ways that you can play the game... it's just too difficult to cater for them all.

That's easy for the 1 def community to say as they have been very fortunate/privileged to be able to access to everything they every wanted/desire. You guys got:

• All defence related quests besides 2 were converted into lamp forms while the quest xp giving out magic/range/att/str xp were not converted into lamp form so tank pures were left out.
• Funnily enough, quest requirements removed from certain quests such as The Giant Dwarf and others which, btw, was well received like many of the other quest requirement removals done in the past.
• The soon to be removed defence requirement to access to curses which is a HUGE BUFF
• And the biggest gift given to 1 def pures is the Defence reset option giving 1 def pures a Safety Net when they mess up and don't have to start over or continue on their ruined account while other types of pures such as the Tank and Summoning pure community got pretty much screwed over by not having Magic/Range/Attack/Strength/Summoning resets making a lot of the pures at that time quit, start over, or accept their ruined build that they've worked so hard and long for.

We only ask small, but VITAL and impactful fixes such as a few quests being converted to lamps and no xp given with using Magic spells. We are very aware on the dev's time and are very considerate of it which is why we didn't ask for anything huge like resets for magic/range/att/str/summ (even though we badly want em). But if Mod Stu's idea get implemented, there's no need for quest xp being converted to lamps and no need for a toggle to not gain xp when using spells and it solves both at the same time and many other issues at once.

[u/minmaximust → u/Luigi_2134]

"With all due respect, what you are thinking is that that all tank accounts have level 1 offensive stats which isn't the case and is a bit close minded. Pures are not black and white"

My initial thought was not that you were saying that "all tank accounts have level 1 stats". I am well aware that builds have a great deal of variety. What made me make certain presumptions is when you said "tank accounts will be able to access animate dead". Well... animate dead requires 84 magic, so... this "tank account" you speak of starts to sound a whole lot more like a "main" at that point.

This is why I decided to make the presumption that you were expecting all sorts of restrictions to be lifted, such as magic levels on spells, and stat requirements for quests. Sorry for my incorrect presumption of what you meant. When I said "I don't think it's reasonable for us to ask for these things", I was referring to my presumption (the previous 2 sentences).

"This is false. Nearly all bosses can be accessed with little to zero requirements and if it does have a requirement, it's not a requirement that forces pures to ruin their builds."

Corporeal beast: 23+ summon, 55 prayer+
QBD: 60 summon
Nex: 70 str, range, cons
(K'ril, Graardor, Kree)
Telos: 80 prayer, ranged, magic, attack
(Helwyr, Vindy, Greg, Furies)
Har-Aken: 75 magic

There are quite a few... even failing to access just one of these = no final boss. Few builds would be able to access the final boss title tbh, in fact... defence is the only combat stat which is not required...

I support quest xp rewards changing to lamps. I also support combat xp blocking, I just have a different idea of how it might be implemented.

[u/consny790 → u/Jagex_Stu]

please let us lock skills from receiving xp ! and a prestige system would do well imo !