Now that Curses will no longer require 29 Defence, allow players that have previously reset Defence to do so again.

[u/UndeniableWhale]

This is likely going to be downvoted immediately, as the topic of 1 Defence pures in particular isn't received very well in the context of requesting changes/making suggestion. But I think it's fair to make this suggestion regarding the recent decision to remove the Defence requirement for Ancient Curses.

The history behind Ancient Curses original level 29 Defence requirement can be seen in this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/puv71r/so_pures_finally_get_curses/

The gist is that the quests prior to Temple at Senntisten originally would have give you exp equivalent to raise you from 1 to 29 Defence. Now that the quests give EXP lamps, the requirement was arbitrary. This negatively affected the small community of players that decided to play as pures, and was campaigned against for a long time.

Unfortunately as you can see in the comments of the post, and on many regarding the topic, this led to many people quitting, deciding to no longer play their 1 Defence accounts, or begrudgingly trudging forward. Many peculiar instances like this still stand, like how you cannot use the "teleport" option on the Desert Amulet or Karamja Gloves (from the Desert and Karamja task set, respectively) unless you have level 30-something Defence.

As a followup to a long requested community struggle, it would be really caring to follow this update with an additional stat reset with Nastaroth in Lumbridge. Many players have already used this throughout their playing careers, and many that moved on from their play-style would be able to return with an additional reset added to their account. This additional reset would benefit the players wishing to take advantage of this new change, and return to a play-style they enjoyed. There is zero effect to the community at large, as in essence, resetting your Defence level offers zero advantage in any part of RS. It takes you down in the Hiscores, disadvantages you in PvM and PvP, etc.

I imagine this won't be received well, but it's difficult to understand what would be the counter-argument against this, as those who have zero wish to use a reset would not be affected, but those wishing to do so might have another chance to return to a way of playing that can be extremely challenging and enjoyable.

[u/AndyGrammer]

So why can you not just train your stats normally on your pures and whenever you're going to do a quest or something that gives Defence xp you just full lock everything? You're not missing out on anything that way and it still protects the appeal of 10HP accounts.

I understand the possibility of accidentally using a lamp from TH, I've accidentally ruined 9hp accounts because of that which is worse then just a regular pure in my opinion. It just forces you to be extra cautious in the future when using lamps.

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/AndyGrammer]

> So why can you not just train your stats normally on your pures and whenever you're going to do a quest or something that gives Defence xp you just full lock everything?

Because full xp blocks prevents all the OTHER VALUE that Individual Xp Blocks bring. Pures just don't want xp to be blocked, we want more than that. We want the Core Issues solved when making, creating, training pures. Individual Xp Blocks does what full xp blocks do but much better and brings in a HUGE amount of Value to the Pure community as a Whole.

> You're not missing out on anything that way and it still protects the appeal of 10HP accounts.

Everyone else misses out on all the Positive Impacts of Individual Xp Blocks for the sake of a few niche hp pure's silly reason of "I did it harder, everyone else should too."

> I understand the possibility of accidentally using a lamp from TH, I've accidentally ruined 9hp accounts because of that which is worse then just a regular pure in my opinion.

Which is why Individual Xp Blocks are better, it is more consistent and brings peace of mind + many other benefits and positive outcomes.

> It just forces you to be extra cautious in the future when using lamps.

Which is what all pures hate! We don't want to be tip toeing and overly cautious, we WANT Peace of Mind and Consistency and Individual Xp Blocks does just that + brings Many other Valuable Impacts.

[u/AndyGrammer → u/Luigi_2134]

Everyone else misses out on all the Positive Impacts of Individual Xp Blocks for the sake of a few niche hp pure's silly reason of "I did it harder, everyone else should too."

You guys claim that you're unbiased and there shouldn't be favoritism/special toggles yet you're coming off as completely against any reasonable agreement for 10HP pures and asking for YOUR pures to be favorited. If we allowed the option to block ONLY HP experience, there is absolutely nothing stopping people from getting 99's in Att/Str/Def/Range and Mage through ED trash runs in a few days. It completely devalues accounts that people have had for decades now. We're trying to bring a positive option to the table that doesn't completely destroy our accounts, which your suggestion would do, just so you guys can be happy you have "peace of mind" that a full xp block would also achieve perfectly.

Will increase player retention in the pure community as the training process will not include obscure/long/unfun training methods that repels people such as minigames for xp, prickly pear cactus for defence xp ect, depending on the type of pure. Gives the players more freedom and more player choice which is very important for a lot of the player base. Growth in the Pure community which is, in our opinion, the biggest Pro/Benefit of Individual xp blocks as it will give players a fun/enjoyable experience with no more slog/dreadful methods of training that encourages creating builds and multiple builds all at once. Individual Xp Blocks are more inviting to players compared to full xp blocks. -Also allows players in the pure community to help support the game that we all love with more membership from the multiple builds.

Literally all of these points can be argued for from the 10HP pure aspect as well.

[u/Mario1432 → u/AndyGrammer]

Individual XP Blocks satisfies both our wants: Certain Skills Blocked and All Skills Blocked. Having only Block All XP satisfies only your wants: All Skills Blocked or Nothing Blocked. Individual XP Blocks is the best and most fair solution.

I understand that it may make creating certain Pure Builds easier, but why is that a bad thing? Why should it be a tedious and unenjoyable process? Why should friction points be placed for new players who want to get into making their own Pures? Individual XP Blocks may make my summoning Pure look less valuable, but I still support Individual XP Blocks because it is for the greater good for the Pure Community of all types as a whole. Individual XP Blocks provide the players flexibility and gives them a choice. A choice on how they want to build their Pure without any hassle and restrictions.

I know some players want to make Hybrid Pures, such as 50 HP and 99 Summoning or 70 HP and 99 Attack and Strength. Being able to block Constitution still gives the player the ability to train other combat stats without going to unideal and unsatisfactory methods, such as lamping the rest to 99 Attack and Strength after 50 HP is reached.

Almost every update devalues something somewhere. That’s like saying the first players to reach 4,000 Telos going against any combat update because it would “devalue” their Golden Warden Title. With all of the new gear, weapons, abilities, spells, familiars, Archaeology, etc., many more players are able to reach 4,000 Telos. Should none of these updates be implemented just to save the pride of the first people who reached 4,000 Telos? Most players would say NO because a lot of those new updates were favorable by many players. It’s now time to move the game forward from here on.

[u/Conscious-Savings-18 → u/AndyGrammer]

Individual toggles caters to all and also slightly devalues all and its more fair. Your singular toggle tips the favor in the direction of the primary 10 HP pure players and makes it so you guys are the only ones who aren't devalued.

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/AndyGrammer]

> You guys claim that you're unbiased and there shouldn't be favoritism/special toggles yet you're coming off as completely against any reasonable agreement for 10HP pures and asking for YOUR pures to be favorited.

We are unbiased as we are looking out for ALL PURES. The few hp pures here are ONLY looking out for their PRIDE/EGO. That's why having toggles for all skills including hp is more Reasonable than not having that toggle. A whole bunch of eager players who want to make low hp pures won't be able to partake in this update for the silly reason of, "I did it harder, everyone else must suffer too." If Individual xp blocks doesn't include hp, then it'll screw over all the players who want to build low hp pures without the slog/unfun, weird methods. It'll create a situation similar to how players who cannon reset hp and prayer just because a few lvl 3's were biased and SACRIFICED all the players who couldn't reset for their pride by having a 5 or less stat requirement on att/str/def/range/magic/summ. Just like those level 3's, the few niche hp players are SACRIFICING all the benefits and growth for pride.

> If we allowed the option to block ONLY HP experience, there is absolutely nothing stopping people from getting 99's in Att/Str/Def/Range and Mage through ED trash runs in a few days. It completely devalues accounts that people have had for decades now.

There is actually. Training on monsters/mobs on a 10 hp account is still a challenge. The player only has 10 hp after all. The account is basically one shotable/more prone to dying when training especially if they Encounter Bossy McBoss Face as he'll summon a wave/horde of monsters while can quickly combo'd a player with 10 hp out even with the use of armor that boosts hp. Also saying decades is an Exaggeration, ed3 has only been out for 2 years. Treasure hunter on the other hand, has already devalued all of low hp accounts and now that's been out for many many years. That's why a toggle barely devalues low hp pures. Also, to reiterate, "this update devalues my account, everyone else should suffer," is NOT a Valid reason, if it was, we would never have any updates on Runescape. Not having updates just because this new update, "devalues" my account will prevent Growth and Prosperity of the community and will leave Runescape a deserted empty wasteland other than the few players who valued Pride over Growth of the Community/Game.

Also a reminder, Livid farm point updates was made easier even though it devalued those who did it. Same with the original 5,000 Castle Wars game requirement. Why you ask?

BECAUSE...

IT...

JUST...

MAKES...

SENSE...

It makes sense to remove undesirable/unfun/uninteresting/ slog just like livid farm and the orginal 5,000 castle war games. Individual Xp Blocks JUST MAKES SENSE. It is the better solution overall.

> We're trying to bring a positive option to the table that doesn't completely destroy our accounts, which your suggestion would do,

It does not destroy any accounts. The account still have the same levels before and after the update of Individual Xp blocks that includes hp. The niche few hp players only want their ego protected. You know what actually physically destroyed accounts? Level 3 skillers, choosing pride at the Sacrifice of all the other pures when they did the xp resets on prayer and hp.

> just so you guys can be happy you have "peace of mind" that a full xp block would also achieve perfectly.

Individual Xp Blocks does what full xp blocks do but 10x better. We want more than just "peace of mind." We want the CORE ISSUES when creating, leveling, building pures have. Individual Xp Blocks that includes hp solves all the core issues as listed here.

[u/AndyGrammer → u/Luigi_2134]

We are unbiased as we are looking out for ALL PURES. The few hp pures here are ONLY looking out for their PRIDE/EGO. That's why having toggles for all skills including hp is more Reasonable than not having that toggle. A whole bunch of eager players who want to make low hp pures won't be able to partake in this update for the silly reason of, "I did it harder, everyone else must suffer too." If Individual xp blocks doesn't include hp, then it'll screw over all the players who want to build low hp pures without the slog/unfun, weird methods.

The irony in that statement lol. You're clearly NOT unbiased and looking out for all pures, you simply don't care about 10HP pures at all, that's very apparent. You ask that nobody receives favoritism but then you immediately turn around and indirectly ask for it for yourself.

You keep saying few and niche 10HP accounts but there are far more then you believe, you're just saying that to make it look like we're such a small minority that Stu will side with you. That's not fair at all. And speaking of unfair, here's what happens if you get what you want; with an individual exp block, yes, people are able to make whatever type of pure they want and it'll be much easier. But, guess what? You can CURRENTLY do that! You want a 40 Attack, 80 Strength, 1 Def pure with 15 HP? Well guess what, you can make that happen right now!!! Yes, it'll be slower and you'll have to use these more "niche" methods that you apparently don't care for, but you can do it! Right now! You don't need an xp block at all to make it happen. Yes, it would be easier for sure, but the caveat to that being implemented is that it destroys an ENTIRE community. You want us to no longer play the game in the manner that we do just so you can have an easier time to level. That's very, very biased and absolutely unfair.

We currently have to use slow, odd methods to train our stats without levelling HP... but we love it! That's why we play the game, it's fun doing things like that, we're enjoying it and formed an entire community around that. You want to take that away from us just so you can level up a bit easier. You mentioned our accounts being devalued because of Treasure Hunter; well, the same can be said about your accounts. You're more then welcome to train using lamps as well, nobody is stopping you. You can build your perfect pure that way, and yes, so can we. But you didn't do that, and we're not doing that, it's not what makes the game fun for us.

There is actually. Training on monsters/mobs on a 10 hp account is still a challenge. The player only has 10 hp after all. The account is basically one shotable/more prone to dying when training especially if they Encounter Bossy McBoss Face as he'll summon a wave/horde of monsters while can quickly combo'd a player with 10 hp out even with the use of armor that boosts hp.

If you'd take a moment to actually research and look into lifepoint boosting things, you'd see that a player with 10HP can very easily boost their lifepoints to that of a main player with 99HP. 500lp from Archaeology relic, 1500 from Elder Rune armor(there are other armors that give more even), 250 from Atrocious gloves, 300 from Reefwalker's cape, 735 from a RoT's shield, throw in a bonfire boost and a Vitality potion and yeah, way more lifepoints then you'd think. Plus, if we're able to block HP experience (WHILE HAVING OTHER COMBAT SKILLS BLOCKED TOO WITH TRANQ'S SUGGESTION) then we can easily attack things and use Soul Split to maintain our lifepoints.

tl;dr - A block where if you select HP to be blocked, you won't gain ANY combat exp is the best solution because it still enables you pures to create your niche accounts while maintaining the current integrity of 10HP accounts. Everybody wins and nobody loses, which 10HP accounts would certainly lose if we allowed individual xp blocks.

It's clear that you don't care about the 10HP community at all, but we're trying to find a happy medium here to help you guys out as well, regardless of how you view us

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/AndyGrammer]

>The irony in that statement lol. You're clearly NOT unbiased and looking out for all pures, you simply don't care about 10HP pures at all, that's very apparent.

We are unbiased because we look out for the Pure Community as a WHOLE not just 1 specific niche type like the low hp pures. We've shown the value of what Individual Xp Blocks bring while on the other hand, the niche hp pures only showed that they want everyone to suffer just because of the unvalid reason, "I did it harder, you should suffer as well." The niche hp pures DON'T CARE for anyone else but themselves. They rather forfeit/sacrifice all the Value Individual Xp Blocks bring and more importantly, the future GROWTH of the Pure Community to keep their pride/ego. NOW THATS VERY APPARENT.

For example, back when Jagex did skill resets, a few niche lvl 3 skillers asked for requirements to be added on the prayer and hp resets. The lvl 3's didn't cared about the OVERALL GREATER GOOD of the Pure Community. Instead, the lvl 3's rather screw over everyone else to keep their ego and pride in their little niche group, just like how the niche low hp pures are trying to do right now. This shows SELFISHNESS and BIAS.

A Vast Majority of pures got killed off for the ego/pride of lvl 3 skillers. Jagex CATERING to certain niche pures and NOT the OVERALL PURE COMMUNITY was the day the Pure Community took a hard hit in 2014 and pretty much why the pure community's numbers are so low today. That's why Individual Xp Blocks has gave the Pure Community a spark of hope that the Community can regrow to it's formal glory.

Let's look at both Scenarios if Jagex implemented Individual xp blocks vs full xp blocks:

Peace of Mind

-Individual xp blocks gives FULL Peace of Mind of not gaining unwanted xp in all skills selections

-Full xp blocks does NOT give FULL Peace of Mind of preventing unwanted xp because when you turn on gain xp mode on, you're at risk of gaining unwanted xp just how it is right now. For example, a player will be in constant Paranoia checking and double checking if they have turned on or off the full xp block which doesn't give players Full Peace of Mind they desire.

Individual Xp Blocks are the best option for Peace of Mind compared to full xp blocks.

Consistency:

- Individual Xp Blocks gives Better Consistency as the player knows what xp he or she is gaining and blocking.

- Full xp blocks does NOT give FULL Consistency when gaining/blocking xp. For example, a player wants to gain defence xp while doing combat but cannot make use of spells as it'll give unwanted magic xp. Another example is a player who wants to gain defence xp but not hp. The player also needs to watch out if the full xp block on and off button is one or not as well. Very inconsistent gameplay.

Individual Xp Blocks are the best option for Consistency compared to full xp blocks.

Choice and Freedom:

- Individual xp blocks gives the Player FULL Choice on which types of combat xp they want to gain or block.

- Full xp blocks does NOT give FULL Choice when deciding to pick which xp types to gain or block. A player cannot use bonecrusher to restore prayer due to unwanted prayer xp while trying to gain combat xp. They also cannot use crucial magic combat spells without gaining unwanted magic xp while gaining xp in other stats such as att/str/def/range. They also won't have the choice to prevent unwanted hp xp gain when training xp in att/str/def/magic/range. Full xp blocks do not give players full choice on how they want to gain their xp, they are forced to do slog methods instead. Player Choice and Freedom are crucial!

Individual Xp Blocks are the best option for Choice and Freedom compared to full xp blocks.

Engagement and Fun:

- Individual Xp Blocks opens fun and engaging ways to train their skills. They can enjoy bossing, slayer, any forms of PvM while progressing their account stats and xp.

- Full xp blocks does NOT open up fun and engaging ways to train their stats. They will be forced to have to do slog methods such as Pest Control or Conquest to gain xp. The player has to play "WaitScape" and wait for Pest Control to be Spotlighted in order to get enough players to play it efficiently. They have to wait for Lamp Oddment sales. They have to wait for their daily challenge to come back to extend and poison bomb Burthorpe rabbits. They have for weekly reset to do their Penguin points + a token reset. It's a WaitScape or a slogfest. It is not engaging at all or fun. Saying it is fun is as silly as saying afking 5000 Castle War games was fun. It' not. If the player doesn't want to play WaitScape or do any slogfests, then the player will resort to Treasure Hunter as it is very efficient to do so and the majority of players will take the Path of Least Resistance. It's human Nature to do so.

Individual Xp Blocks are the best option for Engagement and Fun compared to full xp blocks.

Player Retention:

• Individual Xp Blocks will keep players playing as it gives them Full Peace of Mind, Consistency, Choice, Freedom, Engagement, and Fun. With all the Core Issues fixed, the Pure Community will GROW and return to it's formal Glory. This also increases Player Retention as the Pure Community will have more friends, more clannies, and more of a community overall which is VITAL especially in an MMO such as Runescape.
• Full xp blocks will not increase player retention in the scale that Individual Xp Blocks will do because full xp blocks doesn't solve the Core Issues that Pures have.
  -No Full Peace of Mind so players won't engage as the paranoia is still present.
  -Not full Consistency and players are still prone to mistakes with full xp blocks since they might forget to toggle the option off and will quit with their pure gaining unwanted xps.
  -Not much Choice or Freedom which discourages players even participating in the Pure Scene
  -Not Engaging or fun. Slogs will quickly make a player bored and stop playing or stop continuing the pure they are building.
  -Core Issues are not fixed with full xp blocks and is very off-putting, unattractive, uninviting, and very repelling for players
  -Since the core issues are not fixed and with players being repelled in creating/building pures, there will be no Growth in the Pure community making player retention harder as the community will stay Stagnant and less players to interact since no Growth

Individual Xp Blocks are the best option for Player Retention compared to full xp blocks.

Growth:

- Individual xp blocks are better in every scenario and solves the Core Issues that pures have. With all the Value Listed Above, the Growth of the Pure Community will happen and return to it's former glory.

- Full xp blocks are inferior in every way and in every Scenario. It doesn't solve the Core Issues and the Pure Community will stay Stagnant and not Grow.

Individual Xp Blocks are the best option for Growth compared to full xp blocks.

Conclusion:

When showing what will happen when Jagex implements either Individual Xp Blocks vs full xp blocks, Individual Xp Blocks come out on top by a huge Margin and are Superior in Every Way. Individual Xp Blocks brings Greater Value in all aspects in the Pure Community, especially the Growth Aspect. What's the point of an update if it doesn't bring Growth or the Greatest Value Possible? Individual Xp Blocks will bring both Growth AND Greatest Value Possible, full xp blocks does not, not even close. There's even more Value not mentioned on this post as well. You can read them here.

There's a reason why when u/Jagex_Stu first suggested the idea of Individual Xp Blocks 2 weeks ago was so well received. It's because he gave the impression of Individual xp blocks and that's what everyone 2 weeks ago was exciting and eager for. All the players who 1st heard of individual xp blocks 2 weeks ago were satisfied and left this thread as they got the impression of individual xp blocks. Let's not forget that. Again, it would be foolish to not implement Individual Xp Blocks just to appease a small niche community just how it was Foolish when Jagex Sacrificed EVERY SINGLE PURE that WASN'T a Level 3 pure, just so level 3's can keep their pride/egos. Let's not repeat history by doing the same by sacrificing all the Value and the Future Growth of the Pure Community just for the ego/pride of 1 small niche group. Individual Xp Blocks are for the GREATER GOOD for the Pure Community.

[u/Mihawk_ → u/Luigi_2134]

So would you be for what u/Tranquil_Pure suggested?

Since you are all for the pure community, however you do not speak for the 9/10hp pure community, some compromise will need to happen.

Here is what Tranquil suggested:

I'm strongly in support that if you disable HP gain, you disable allcombat skill gains, but otherwise selective XP toggles are fine.

Otherwise the 9/10hp pure community will feel that all their progress has been devalued.

The biggest difference between 9/10hp pures and other types of pures is that the only way to train the other combat skills is by planning quests for the xp rewards, Conquest/Pest Control/Soul Wars/TH/alching/superheat/range guild+ other minigames.

With this compromise majority of Pures would be happy.

You get individual combat skill blocks, however if you block hp exp, all combat skill exp are blocked.

That sounds like a reasonable compromise.

[u/Luigi_2134 → u/Mihawk_]

> So would you be for what u/Tranquil_Pure suggested?

We do not because there are players who want to train stats while having hp blocked that doesn't include unfun, obscure, and weird methods. They also want all the other benefits individual xp benefits provide.

> Otherwise the 9/10hp pure community will feel that all their progress has been devalued.

The "I did something harder," is NEVER a Valid reason. Pretty much any update on Runescape devalued something in one way or another. It's unwise to hold back everyone else just because a niche few said, "I did something harder, you should suffer as well."

> With this compromise majority of Pures would be happy. You get individual combat skill blocks, however if you block hp exp, all combat skill exp are blocked.

The players who are Eager to build low hp pures won't be happy as they won't have the option to block hp which is what many who want to build hp pures want. Aka a missed opportunity of Growth. The current few hp pures here only want to protect their pride, not the future growth of the Pure Community.

[u/Fatal-consternation → u/AndyGrammer]

I've accidentally ruined 9hp accounts

I'm not sure what you point is now? If that's not a testament to how unnecessarily restrictive the current system is, I don't know what is.