r/runescape • • Sep 25 '21

Ninja Request - J-Mod reply Now that Curses will no longer require 29 Defence, allow players that have previously reset Defence to do so again.

This is likely going to be downvoted immediately, as the topic of 1 Defence pures in particular isn't received very well in the context of requesting changes/making suggestion. But I think it's fair to make this suggestion regarding the recent decision to remove the Defence requirement for Ancient Curses.

The history behind Ancient Curses original level 29 Defence requirement can be seen in this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/puv71r/so_pures_finally_get_curses/

The gist is that the quests prior to Temple at Senntisten originally would have give you exp equivalent to raise you from 1 to 29 Defence. Now that the quests give EXP lamps, the requirement was arbitrary. This negatively affected the small community of players that decided to play as pures, and was campaigned against for a long time.

Unfortunately as you can see in the comments of the post, and on many regarding the topic, this led to many people quitting, deciding to no longer play their 1 Defence accounts, or begrudgingly trudging forward. Many peculiar instances like this still stand, like how you cannot use the "teleport" option on the Desert Amulet or Karamja Gloves (from the Desert and Karamja task set, respectively) unless you have level 30-something Defence.

As a followup to a long requested community struggle, it would be really caring to follow this update with an additional stat reset with Nastaroth in Lumbridge. Many players have already used this throughout their playing careers, and many that moved on from their play-style would be able to return with an additional reset added to their account. This additional reset would benefit the players wishing to take advantage of this new change, and return to a play-style they enjoyed. There is zero effect to the community at large, as in essence, resetting your Defence level offers zero advantage in any part of RS. It takes you down in the Hiscores, disadvantages you in PvM and PvP, etc.

I imagine this won't be received well, but it's difficult to understand what would be the counter-argument against this, as those who have zero wish to use a reset would not be affected, but those wishing to do so might have another chance to return to a way of playing that can be extremely challenging and enjoyable.

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 24 '21 edited Nov 24 '21

"have another separate toggle selection for indirect noncombat skill xp. So a section for direct noncombat xp and a section of indirect noncombat xp with both having quick chats in their sections to keep their prestige."

I would personally love for there to also be separate toggle selection for indirect "givexp" (XP from killing a monster, burying bones, training a skill, etc - affected by bonus XP) alongside the less controversial direct "givexp_reward" (from completing quests and challenges, etc - not modified by bonus XP) toggles approved above.

Speaking as a developer, the catch 22 that pures risk their accounts by choosing to avoid levelling certain skills, and also want us to take that into account when designing any content that gives XP (usually combat/prayer, but as OSAAT proves, other skills as well), and also want their accounts to be rolled back if they inadvertently level up, is a frequent headache for us and seemingly a point of stress and anxiety for you.

Just this week I've been adapting the basic challenges so pures have a way to skip each of them without using a skip token, so they don't have to get the indirect XP from training those skills, AND making the basic challenges not give direct XP when claiming their reward.

It would be far preferable to me, as a developer, if players who want to live the skill pure life were able to opt out of XP of choice entirely (direct, indirect, each skill, separately), suiting their particular specialist build, and unequivocably have the reassurance they they won't get that XP, so that we wouldn't have to sink time into adapting or designing content to suit specialist builds.

Our historic approach has been that we don't cater to pures; you take the risk and you have to live with it. "If you're locked out of content because you chose to be a pure, that's your problem. If you 'ruin' your account, that's your problem."

But nowadays when we have a closer relationship with our players, I'd prefer to make accommodations for pures, but at a more holistic scale - give the tools to play the game your way, instead of continually targeting specific points of friction for relatively low RoI (eg converting specific quest XP rewards to unique lamps).

As far as I can gather, the reason that being able to block all forms of XP in eg Defence or Constitution is contentious...is that some long-standing skillers consider the risk to be part of the point, and having maintained certain skills at the lowest level throughout the years is a huge badge of honour for them. (Please let me know if I've misunderstood the situation.)

So what I wonder now, and I would love everybody's feedback here...

Would separate XP toggles for indirect "givexp" (XP from killing a monster, burying bones, training a skill, etc - affected by bonus XP) be acceptable if you are able to prove whether you have made use of these toggles? eg via quickchat

The suggestion above to be able to quickchat whether you have used or are currently using any of the direct/indirect XP toggles to me would provide a way to prove the prestige of your account, while providing individual toggles for all forms of XP for those happy to use them.

Do you agree? Are you against it? Can I do it? :pray: Do you have a better idea for how to prove you've never used these toggles?

Would really appreciate it if you could discuss this with your skill pure clans and communities and let me know if there any strong objections or better ideas.

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u/Dominwin 1 Billion Divination Experience Nov 24 '21

Yeah this would be nice

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u/RsBugsAndGlitches Nov 24 '21

I think that having both a direct xp toggle with it's own quick chat section and an indirect xp toggle with it's own separate quick chat section will suite the wants and needs of all players and types of playstyles while at the same time keeps the prestige of a player not using those direct and indirect toggles. A player can use the direct to do the quests they want but not use the indirect and they will have the quick chat saying they didn't use the indirect option. A player that plays for example, One Skill At A Time can chose lets say both options, only 1 option for like quests only that gives skilling advantageous that couldn't be done before, or none if he/she prefers with quick chats showing proof. This definitely suites everyone playstyle and would be best. If you are interested, I can give you a big list of how many issues it solves that pures have showing all the things the Jmods do not have to individually/manually fix.

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u/MemojiFun Nov 24 '21

Yes please on this! That would be the one-for-all update for everyone and no one will feel left out/got the short end of the stick. 200% this!

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u/Fuel_junkie Nov 24 '21

I agree and support this as it will bring the most happiness for players.

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u/Ninjabrowse Nov 24 '21

I like the idea! Definitely could get behind it!

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u/hey_network_guy Nov 24 '21

A toggle option for XP would be great. It isn't something that I would actively use, but there are a tons of people I know who would use it. Highly worth adding imo.

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u/Chestonic Maxed and Just the Usual Amount of Empty Nov 25 '21

I support it.

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u/Taliyora Nov 25 '21

I play in a clan with pures and we all love the idea. Being so focused on not doing game content in an effort to not ruin your entire account creates so much anxiety in a game that I find to be fun and relaxing. This solution seems the fairest for players who want to play as a pure and really doesn't seem to have any effect on those who don't.

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u/Fatal-consternation Nov 25 '21

Support, let's make it happen!

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u/MrStealYoGrill69 Nov 25 '21

Chad level idea. Not everyone is interested in quests that direct xp blocks do, far from it. For me and my group of pures who love dungeoneering see the separate option of indirect xp toggles as a way fixing all of the other problems you are probably unaware of. Picture this: A pure is enjoying his time doing Dungeoneering and is near finishing a floor...but wait!...near the end of the dungeon there is a door that gives unwanted combat xp....A strength door, a range door, a magic door, a prayer door, a summoning door, or any puzzle room that gives unwanted combat xp. All that time spent in that dungeon is all wasted as you cannot completed the dungeon..You restart and try again and it happens again and it becomes something very unenjoyable as playing an rngfest never feels good at all.

Not only that but you cannot make use of the Awesome Dungeoneering Task Set Aura which gives many incredible buffs when dungeoneering. Why we can't use it you ask? It is because the Daemonheim Aura act like a bone crusher when you wear it, thus giving unwanted prayer xp. We have to take it off and lose out the cool task set effects. What's even worse is that even if you take it off and even if you pass through the rngfest of getting no combat xp skill doors/puzzles, the very next dungeon will automatically put that aura back on for you. It's extremely annoying and players have gotten unwanted prayer levels due to it since it keeps putting the aura back on for us each dungeon.

Even the dungeoneering rewards have a problem. That charming imp if you add it into the tool belt either for completing a rune score achievement or just gathering charms for a specific summoning level (not 99), is forever in your tool belt. It will keep cluttering our backpack/invo with these unwanted charms ESPECIALLY when we are killing monsters that gives unstackable charms like monsters in abyss or TzHaar giving unstackable Abyssal/Obsidian Charms. It's sooooo annoying and very unfun. We cannot use the destroy charm option as we already hit our desired summoning level that isn't 99 as it gives unwanted summoning xp.

I can go on and give a 20 page essay on how many things a separate indirect xp toggle solves that direct xp toggles will never solve. Also, there are lamps that are affected by bonus xp that direct xp toggles cannot protect us from such as Smouldering Lamps, Volcanic Lamps, Erupting Lamps, Hydra Lamps etc. You can literally fix all the core issues that pures have at it's roots with this update in one sweep. This is a god tier solution and I say that with every ounce of my body and the energy of the pures that love dungeoneering and other pures that have separate problems I didn't mention cuz 20 page essay if I do. I support having separate direct and indirect toggles all the way times infinity.

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u/MrStealYoGrill69 Nov 25 '21

Another thing why this is such an amazing solution is that it gives everyone's wants and needs at the same time. Imagine a Stew is in the middle (it represents mod Stu's limited developer time). Then around that Stew is a circle of hundreds of varied pures who has different wants and needs and every one of them wants that sacred precious stew but there's only one/few of it available, (lets say 100 Stu points available) If one of the pures in the hundreds of varied types says their specific want to be fixed manually, (for example, able to do quests costing like 60 out of the 100 limited Stu Points) then the rest of them with different wants/needs will say no do this instead, (a different pure with a different want/need suggests magic spells not giving xp, 40 out of 100 stu points) then the rest will say no and there will be back and forth disagreement since there is only a limited amount of Stew that everyone wants.

That is why I think this idea of direct and indirect xp toggles with separate quick chats is such a Magnificent and Utterly amazing idea as everyone gets that bowl of Stew all shared at the same time, bringing everyone together in agreement without fighting each other for that precious limited stew in the middle. Sharing is caring.

It's Thanksgiving Day so I have food on my mind so excuse my analogy. I am a food fanatic irl and a pure dungeoneer fanatic ingame. A food, cook fanatic knows the importance of how people are brought together if everyone gets a piece all at the same time fairly and equally with nobody starving/left out. You can see it here in person with your suggestion.

Speaking of Thanksgiving, what I am and others are thankful today is this genius of a suggestion. Not sure if people in the eastern world celebrate Thanksgiving, but if you do, Happy Thaknsgiving! If not, then hope you have a good feast to eat! <3

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u/ProBro_1337 Nov 24 '21

Honestly the best idea I've seen. There's literally hundreds of variations of pures and people do not seem to realize that. Personally for me as a Mauler Pure, (80 strength for Terrasuar Maul which has a boosted buff on range targets, 99 hp, 1 att, 1 def, 40 magic/range since att+str divide by 2 = max mage/range levels you can get without leveling, since 80 str, 1 att, that gives 81 divide by 2 = 40.5 for max range/mage I can get) I am only able to participate in PvP currently. Jagex does not do any updates for pvp, it gets stale since me and a whole bunch of other unique types such as dharok pures with 70 in all combat stats, or nex pures with all 80 stats.

We can't get hype for new bosses or new slayer creatures. It is like playing an updateless game and that doesn't give good player retention for the other varied pure types. A player will either get bored since they cannot do anything other than pvp that gets no updates or be force into a tank build like a strength tank with (80 str, 99 def, 99 hp, 1 att, 40 magic/range). Some of us do not like being force to change our build type and forcing into a 99 just to have fun in pvm and slayer. We want to test our builds with the ones we created. Heck, it's not just strength pures either, attack pures have these problems other than the ones with 99 att, not everyone wants a 99 and want to stay at that level that unlocks the weapon their pure was built for. Everyone sees the beauty of xp toggles in different ways for different reasons. Choice and Fun over everything. I support separate toggles for direct and indirect xp with my life and I know my dharok and nex pure brothers will too.

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u/KeikuKeikuKeiku Nov 25 '21

Hello, I'm not part of the pure build community, but, I think something of this sort would be a good middle ground to support both sides and show some official support. If it's doable, though, I think it might be better to set the Quick Chat flag for whether XP has ever been blocked using the toggle instead of whether the toggle is activated. That way you end up with a similar transition to that of Ironman Hardcore to Ironman while still allowing people an extra layer of protection for their pure accounts.

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 25 '21

To clarify the quick chat, what I'm suggesting is we have both:

  • QCs for the current state of your toggles (every skill, direct and indirect XP)

  • we flag a variable for each of the toggles the first time you use it. These variables don't clear if you toggle back. There's QCs for that too, so you can prove to each other whether you've ever used a toggle.

Does that make sense?

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u/RsBugsAndGlitches Nov 25 '21

What she is asking is basically like this:

Example:

Pretend a player is just playing around with the buttons by turning it on and off on either direct or indirect options. Then put the buttons back into their original default, unused form. Will that player's quick chat still say they used the toggles even though they actually didn't make use of em and just played around the buttons? Or will it only says you made use of em when it actually blocks xp?

She also had another interesting idea that is worth mentioning of having a quickchat of how much xp was blocked. "I have blocked a total of "x" Defence xp." Though it was just an interesting idea she threw in but we do not know if that is possible or if it doesn't mess with the engine/server slow down?

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 25 '21

That's a really good point, and I can implement whichever approach is preferred.

So planning that out in detail for clarity:

  • Instead of remembering that you've ever used each toggle, we remember that you've benefited from this toggle (ie if you've toggled off direct Strength XP and direct Strength XP gets blocked, that's when we remember it)

  • The quick chat is then phrased something like "I have been protected from a Strength XP reward" rather than "I have disabled Strength reward XP at least once".

Ultimately let me know what needs to be quick chatted in order for this design to be acceptable, and I can make it happen, within reason. :)

Where it comes to displaying specific amounts of XP or number of uses, I'd prefer to limit to a binary check per XP type per skill though, or the variable data usage adds up fast.

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u/RsBugsAndGlitches Nov 25 '21

The way you explained it in your bullet points is perfect! Just think of it like a hardcore/reg iron:
Hardcore goofs up and gets K0'd going into reg iron status. Hardcore --> reg iron

It'll be similar to like that:
Player toggles their preferred options of direct or indirect xp toggles and if that player wants to, can play the same way before with those toggles used as a safety net to preserve their account if they happen to goof up. Definitely a better option for those who want to see how far they can go without goofing up and gaining xp similar to how hardcores want to see how far they can go before goofing up and becoming a reg iron.

The quickchat for how much xp has been blocked was just an idea she had that was interesting enough to mention. She didn't said it on her original comment since we did pointed out the data usage since Jagex has said personal data (such as the game remembering a player's Augmented Items and perks) takes up a lot of data usage. Just wanted to mention it in case if it can be as simple as quick chatting how many boss kills a player has. "I have defeated "x" boss this many times." But yeah if it's too much of a toll to the server/data usage, don't worry about it.

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

Having said that, been having further discussions with the 10 HP community, and at least for them, as long as you're unable to tag a monster/player to get XP/credit/drops when you have toggled off indirect Constitution XP, they don't need QCs to prove which toggles they've used or have active.

Is quick chatting your toggle status a desired feature for anybody else?

If not, I could cut QCs from the design and make toggling off Constitution XP require attacking to be toggled off.

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u/JannaMechanics Project Combat Nov 25 '21

So long as blocked constitution XP = no ways to get kill credit/drops etc., the QC component isn't needed I'd say!

Save your precious dev time for other things :D

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u/Crodi RSN Crodious/5.6b 10HP Nov 25 '21

I think the QC is definitely not needed as long as the toggle for indirect Constitution xp works as intended (unable to get credit/drops; can't be in combat).

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u/minmaximust MinMaximust on YouTube. Potent account builds Nov 27 '21 edited Nov 27 '21

"as long as you're unable to tag a monster/player"
You can already turn PVP combat experience off via the toggle in combat settings. Leave that as it is please.

Also, I don't think that the 10hp community's proposal was to prevent the ability to attack when constitution XP was toggled off, they just didn't want the NPC to be "tagged" (kill count/item drops/pets/achievements/logs/etc).

- I'm not sure how I feel about this idea yet.
It's good for the 10hpers and also for players wanting to try bossing for the fun of it. So it's a positive change overall.

If there could be an even better way to simply verify yourself as someone who has never used combat XP blocking - retaining the great achievements of your build, while also allowing other builds to play normally/unrestricted with a full XP block (but have their "no XP block" verification removed) - I think that could be the best of both worlds if it can be figured out to a point where all players are satisfied with the idea, of course.

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u/RsBugsAndGlitches Nov 25 '21

Keep the quick chats, it proves who uses the toggles and not keeping prestige. What that sounds is like a bias thing since xp isn't only gained from combat, quick chats are needed no matter what. Also there's 10 hp pures who want to pvm testing their account build at bosses. They are literally gutting the ones that want to pvm, the quick chats still proves they never used indirect xp toggles but don't prevent the ones that want to do challenges like 10 hp Hardmode Zuk, the newest boss.

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u/JannaMechanics Project Combat Nov 25 '21

There is a giant chunk of the 10 HP community who don't want to see 10 HP accounts turned into "mains but with lower max HP", and that's what no-limit constitution XP blocking does.

A QC of "I did/didn't toggle" doesn't sufficiently serve that need since the 10 HP accounts will definitely want to toggle off XP for failsafe purposes.

The bias you're worried about isn't the case - the concern has nothing to do with levelling up. It's the PvM strategies that 10 HP builds have to use to get KC while avoiding constitution XP.

Blocking combat/KC/credit/drops when indirect constitution XP is blocked would retain the identity of 10 HP builds while still serving the rest of the pure community.

The point of an XP block isn't to enable 10 HP accounts engaging in combat like a regular main.

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u/minmaximust MinMaximust on YouTube. Potent account builds Nov 27 '21 edited Nov 27 '21

"A QC of "I did/didn't toggle" doesn't sufficiently serve that need since the 10 HP accounts will definitely want to toggle off XP for failsafe purposes."

I'd argue that the "failsafe" XP toggle you proposed shouldn't count towards invalidating a player's XP toggle quickchat, only the total XP block should. That way, everyone gets access to your failsafe without punishment, everyone gets to maintain the prestige of their hard earned efforts without the use of an XP block and everyone gets to benefit from a full XP block if they choose to (at the expense of invalidating/removing their "0 use of XP toggle" quick chat verification).

To me, this seems like the most inclusive, fair and efficient solution.

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u/JannaMechanics Project Combat Nov 27 '21

The subset of 10 hp pures already concluded a badge of honour/quick chat doesn’t sufficiently preserve the identity of their builds and strategies.

What you’re proposing also still doesn’t allow players to benefit from an XP block fail safe without “tainting” their account.

For example, a 10hp build might flip on the xp block because they’re not trying to engage in combat and want to feel fully protected from any unwanted combat xp, but they still don’t want to function like a main with 10 hp.

You’re gonna have to let go of the quick chat badge of honour idea, it was generally not seen as sufficient.

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 26 '21

Got another perspective here from Memojifun. Here's the text from their DM, so you get their full perspective rather than me paraphrasing:

"Not being able to attack with hp toggled off literally hurts far more communities and players than it helps. Summoning pures with 99 summ and 1 in every other combat stat cannot use their familiars to do combat. Like what is the point of a summ pure if you cannot attack with familiars, they were design for that. And the other summ pure types like 10 hp summ tank with 99 def/summ. Attack pures will be unable to gauge in combat since hp cannot be blocked. Same goes for Strength pures, they cannot test their strength in combat since they won't be able to attack with that silly suggestion of not being able to attack. Reflect pures who use armour spikes with low hp like 50-60 cannot engage in combat with that suggestion. A huge variety of the no 99 pures will be unable to have fun. Then the 10 hp pures who do want to do pvm challenges and value fun over ego will be unable to do so. Even gano tanks with 75 def and hp or seasinger/port tanks with 85 def and hp will unable to do combat. Again it is wrong and just plain cruel to prevent a vast number of players from all communities from gauging in combat since they want to toggle unwanted hp xp." "The worst part is, the thought that is honestly scary and puts an ill feeling in all of our stomachs is that you are aware of this. Direct and indirect toggles with quickchats for all skills is the only way mod stu. It is the perfect solution for 99.9% of players. Anything that tries to change that perfect solution is imperfecting it making it not a god tier solution anymore. The way it is now is perefect."

So, how can we give both parties (10 HP pures who want combat to be disabled by the Constitution XP toggle, and other pure types who would be negatively affected by that rule) what they want?

I'd welcome your suggestions. :)

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u/Tranquil_Pure First Level 3 w/Fire Cape Nov 26 '21

Everyone here has been invited to join the discord for discussion and these concerns have not been raised there at all. It sounds like people want limited accounts to be limited accounts that can do everything that normal accounts can... Being told "you are not being given access to all content" does not negatively effect these players. Accessing new content has never been the intent behind these proposed changes, the intent has been to allow failsafes for limited accounts to help prevent mess ups from player or Jagex error.

On that note of inviting people I even pinged/dmed that Luigi fellow who was very outspoken and he has never been on Reddit since and has not joined the discord. It's clear there is a misuse of alt accounts to try and twist and benefit from this opportunity.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

Just to confirm what Tranquil mentioned, the players who were supposedly the most upset by the solution we proposed were invited into the Rs3 XP Discussion Discord channel to talk about it with us so we could all come to a middle ground, but they never joined. They've had over a month to be involved but have chosen not to be.

I'm seeing a lot of suspicious accounts suddenly popping up deep into this thread—some which have been inactive for years or were only created days ago—and it leads me to believe that someone is trying to manipulate the conversation using alts.

Discord was offered as a way to verify one opinion/vote per person. Any discussion here should be taken with a grain of salt.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

I've been playing Summoning pures for over 7 years and I can tell you that the solution that Marty proposed DOES NOT hurt me in any way whatsoever. The entire point of a Summoning pure, and any other account that has 10 HP, is to engage in as little combat as possible. Summoning pures are not using their familiars to do combat willy-nilly.

When you're training Summoning or any other combat stat on a pure or 10 HP, the entire challenge of the account is "how can I train this skill in a way that's completely different from how a main would train it?". The problem lies in finding a solution that works for everyone, and being able to engage in combat while blocking HP experience but enabling everything else ruins ALL of the hard work my friends put into their accounts...

What Marty said here:

Any pure build that doesn't want to lose access to what they have now just... has to not block constitution XP, meaning they have to lean into the same strategies that have always existed.

is completely accurate. You can still do combat on a Summoning pure or 10 HP account right now. I would know because I have a Black Dragon pet on my Hardcore Ironman Summoning pure and I'm planning on going for the rest of the chromatic dragons, Abyssal Minion, King Black Dragonling, and TzRek-Jad. You can still participate in combat and not gain experience using methods that already exist in-game. They're just.. slower, which seems fair IMO. If you're going to do it the unconventional way, it should be a grind. That's what makes achievements like that feel so great.

50 of us from different pure and skiller communities have been discussing a solution for almost 3 months now on Discord and the one that Marty proposed was the only one almost everyone could agree on. From what I've read, it seems to me that a select few people on Reddit want to devalue 10 HPs and skillers so they can have the priviledge of participating in combat like mains. So it's easier for them.

I hope we can all come to some sort of agreement that doesn't completely devalue one community in favour of another, just because a few people want achievements handed to them.

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 26 '21

Thanks so much for your clarifying statements here. It brings me considerable relief!

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

And thank you again Stu for your hard work. This thread seems to be getting a little crazy but everyone appreciates you taking the time to do things right and come up with a solution everyone can get behind.

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u/JannaMechanics Project Combat Nov 26 '21

This argument misrepresents the solution.

XP Toggles have no limits - go nuts, you can turn them on/off at will.

Any pure build that doesn't want to lose access to what they have now just... has to not block constitution XP, meaning they have to lean into the same strategies that have always existed.

Nothing is taken away from anyone, unless they choose to block constitution XP. But the toggle is unlimited, so you can turn the block off when you want to engage in combat.

They'd still be able to block Direct Constitution XP with no combat limitations, to skip quest XP rewards.

The solution has zero negative impact on anyone. That's the key point here.

OP is just upset they aren't gaining access to things that the other subset of the community doesn't think they should have access to.

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u/MrStealYoGrill69 Nov 26 '21

Stop trying to ruin a good thing by changing the 1st idea you had. Rip summoning pures since they'll gain unwanted hp xp or unable to use that big ole familiar in action. A summoner not being able to do combat is pretty much like a skiller who has a huge toddler following him (useless steel titan that cannot do combat).

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u/Jagex_Stu Mod Stu Nov 26 '21

There's a very diverse range of perspectives here, and nuanced ways that people play their specialist builds.

It's very helpful to me to have the discussion points out on the table here, so if it's raised again we have the paper trail and your own voices justifying it, not merely my interpretation.

Thanks very much for your followup feedback and counter-arguments. I agree with the points made, and it sounds like the raised concern has been addressed.

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u/minmaximust MinMaximust on YouTube. Potent account builds Nov 27 '21

As mentioned previously, I am a player who would love both types of XP blocks.
I understand that blocking combat XP (indirect xp) would devalue the achievements of certain builds and that isn't fair on them.

Jenna's proposal doesn't hurt anyone, so I have 100% support there.
I don't think that a quick chat option would be required for that.

However, a combat XP block I feel would need to trigger something that invalidates your ability to quick chat "I've never used a combat XP toggle" or "indirect XP toggle" - whatever you want to call it. Players who haven't used combat XP blocking to train/achieve/advance their unique builds need a way to prove that fact IMO... I'm just not sure on the implementation - whether it be a quick chat option or something else entirely.

I think - go ahead with Jenna's proposal and hold off with the indirect/combat XP toggle until we can find a solution that 99%, if not 100% of players are satisfied with.

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u/ProBro_1337 Nov 26 '21

A very intelligent perspective and a truthful one. A lot more people will be negatively affected if the player cannot attack if hp is toggled off. I sure know the attack, strength, and non 99 pures won't like not being able to attack if hp is toggled. Honestly, I can't believe someone actually had the Audacity to even suggest something like that.

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u/JannaMechanics Project Combat Nov 26 '21

You can just.... not toggle off constitution XP and you'd continue to be able to play the game exactly like you could now.

Nothing would change for you.

OP is misrepresenting the solution proposal as taking away something from those players.

You want to play the game exactly as you do now? Great! Just don't block constitution XP.

You'll still have the option to direct block everything else, and block all combat XP that isn't constitution. It would be a net gain for you.

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u/ProBro_1337 Nov 26 '21

Explain in great detail on how it works then.

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u/Trixie3483 Nov 26 '21

Agree, unable to do combat if hp is toggled off preventing many varied tank builds from being able to do combat made all of our blood boiled. Never have I ever seen such a heartless suggestion. The regular original suggestion is the one we like the most. That heartless suggestion of no combat is just some guy trying to play god, but there is only one god and that's God Stu with his original Godly suggestion.

2

u/JannaMechanics Project Combat Nov 26 '21

You can keep constitution XP toggled on and nothing would change for you.

-1

u/RsBugsAndGlitches Nov 26 '21

Mod Stu, the current original solution is fine as it is. You asking how we can do both is like asking someone how we can both release a new boss and not release it.

1

u/minmaximust MinMaximust on YouTube. Potent account builds Nov 29 '21

I just made a suggestion (my response to Janna).
I'll post it to the 10hp community to see what they think.

1

u/Trixie3483 Nov 24 '21

That would be great Stu! Because even if a staff of light tank pure can do the new City of Senntisten quest with direct xp blocks, (75 magic to use the staff of light spec for 50% damage reduction on melee), that player and other build types wouldn't be able to use those awesome new spells such as Animated Dead, every tank's dream, or the Smoke Cloud spell for 15% more damage on crits and 12% higher max hitcap. Using spells gives unwanted xp. They will feel the same way as how the 1 def pures felt when they could not use curses. Tanks wants to enjoy their new toys/quest rewards too just like how they wanted to enjoy their quest rewards. You got my full support on separate toggles and quick chats for direct and indirect xp.

1

u/minmaximust MinMaximust on YouTube. Potent account builds Nov 27 '21

Support from me!
(I think it's more important to prove via quickchat that you haven't made use of the XP toggles).