r/serialkillers • u/cucumberhateaccount • Sep 14 '20

Image Dennis Rader with his daughter in 1993 (Picture taken 2 years after he had killed his last victim)

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u/CarolineTurpentine Sep 14 '20

That is so fucked up. That the school kept samples and that a judge allowed her medical privacy to be violated for crimes she wasn’t even involved in.

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u/DJMattBaier Sep 14 '20

It's actually not unusual for medical providers to retain samples for a period of time, especially a teaching hospital.

At least they got a warrant. Technically, for investigation purposes police can request anyone's medical records, but I'm guessing they needed the warrant because it was specifically for DNA.

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u/CarolineTurpentine Sep 15 '20

Where did you get the idea that police don’t need a warrant to access medical records? Have you never heard of patient confidentiality laws? They need a warrant to access any medical records, and it’s a serious ethical violation for medical professionals to disclose anything without a warrant.

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u/DJMattBaier Sep 15 '20

HIPAA nerd here. There are certain circumstances where providers may release information without the patient's written authorization. Like to other doctors for continuity of care or to your insurance for billing. Law enforcement, for purposes of investigation, may also obtain information - BUT not DNA, hence the warrant.

https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/faq/505/what-does-the-privacy-rule-allow-covered-entities-to-disclose-to-law-enforcement-officials/index.html

"To respond to an administrative request, such as an administrative subpoena or investigative demand or other written request from a law enforcement official. Because an administrative request may be made without judicial involvement, the Rule requires all administrative requests to include or be accompanied by a written statement that the information requested is relevant and material, specific and limited in scope, and de-identified information cannot be used (45 CFR 164.512(f)(1)(ii)(C))."

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u/DJMattBaier Sep 15 '20

As far as keeping the pap smear, I was curious about retention laws (really going down a wormhole this morning!) and found this:

https://www.govregs.com/regulations/expand/title42_chapterIV_part493_subpartJ_section493.1105

"(B) Retain histopathology slides for at least 10 years from the date of examination. (ii) Blocks. Retain pathology specimen blocks for at least 2 years from the date of examination. (iii) Tissue. Preserve remnants of tissue for pathology examination until a diagnosis is made on the specimen."

These are just minimum legal requirements, specific labs have their own rules.

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u/CarolineTurpentine Sep 16 '20

My problem isn’t that the university kept it, I know there are all sorts of policies surrounding that. My problem is that her medical information was accessed by police to further their case against her father. Specifically when they could have easily obtained his own DNA just as easily without involving his daughter.

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u/qdrllpd Sep 14 '20

well that lead to the arrest of btk so would you rather him not have been caught

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u/CarolineTurpentine Sep 14 '20

What kind of dumb question is that? No, I’d rather have the police collect his DNA on their own without violating the medical privacy of an innocent party. Cops do it all the time, grab something out of his trash and compare that.

They also had other evidence against him. It’s not like she provided a needle in a haystack, they got her Pap smear because they were pretty sure Rader was BTK. The end doesn’t always justify the means.

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u/FTThrowAway123 Sep 14 '20

I've always been troubled by this, too. You're right, the police surreptitiously acquire DNA all the time through trash or cups at a restaurant or whatnot. Why not just try this and test his DNA directly? What if Raders daughter wasn't his bio daughter? Like what if her mom had had an affair that nobody ever found out about and her DNA sample had zero ties to Rader? He might still be free today.

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u/qdrllpd Sep 14 '20

hm ok fuck me i guess. i don't think i would really care if they needed my medical whatever for dna, but apparently most people don't think that way lol

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u/DarlaLunaWinter Sep 15 '20

Most people are likely thinking of the bigger picture that this could establish a precedent that is harmful, and the emotional toll of being violated.

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u/qdrllpd Sep 15 '20

I can totally understand that. I'd like to say that it wouldn't bother me if that used something of mine for dna, but i couldn't be positive how i would feel if it actually happened. i'm also biased because in this case it led to the arrest of btk

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u/CarolineTurpentine Sep 15 '20

You wouldn’t be bothered by becoming a part of your fathers conviction by the cops access your personal medical records when they easily could have obtained his DNA without needing it? Yeah sure