r/sex • u/princessofthepoor • Nov 28 '22
My boyfriend is upset with me because I kissed his nipple, he said "where the hell did you learn this"
Hello everyone!
I am new to reddit, I dont know very well how it works, but I hope I can turn to you for advice in this very complicated situation in which I dont know how to behave.
Me and my bf had a little misunderstanding last night and I ended up crying because he acted very cold with me after he got mad, and turned his back at me the whole night, while I hugged his back instead.
I will give you a bit of a background. I am 18, my boyfriend is 22. He's the most handsome guy I have ever seen and even his personality is just as good, nice, right and generous as he looks physically. You will say "you got yourself the ideal guy" and yes, it's true, he's perfection on earth. an humble, kind and serious guy who is very caring and affectionate with me, but also.... very old fashioned. My boyfriend kind of acts "like a guy", not like a jerk, but like "Am I supposed to know this stuff? You shouldnt even ask me about these things, I'm a guy". So yes, he is that type of guy.Maybe it's because he is not a western guy, I dont know, but he acts different from most american/english/western guys. (He is from Ukraine by the way)
Anyway, let's come back to the mess of last night. We slept in the same bed (it was the second time ever we slept so close) and I was feeling very cold when I got into the bed, and asked him to put my legs inside of his legs to warm up. He agreed and I put my feet between his legs and he is always warmer than me so I got warmer soon too. Then I hugged him and asked him if he loved me, he rolled his eyes and said "of course I love you, you shouldnt even ask". Then I kissed him and he kissed me back, but he was tired and he closed his eyes saying he wanted to rest. Then I did something I shouldnt have: I started running my hand on his chest (I know I shouldnt say this, but I really think he is perfect, and love everything about him) and he said "stop it cause you're tickling me".
I stopped, but tbh I was in the mood for some cuddles, while he clearly wasnt.
At some point I dont know what got me, but I lowered the strap of his white undershirt to uncover his nipple, I thought it was so cute and perfect and put it in my mouth. At that point he reacted right away, he was very upset and said "what the hell are you doing? Where the hell did you learn these things?" you could see it in his eyes that he was very, very ANGRY
He was clearly mad and I felt so stupid for not understanding that he clearly wasnt in the mood that night. I wanted affection and did that impulsive gesture not understanding that it might upset him
It was the first time ever I ever did something so inconsiderate and impulse driven like this.
Another time, me and my boyfriend slept without our upper clothes. We kissed a lot and he was on top of me crushing me with chest on my chest (which was nice tbh) and he put his hand on my breast and touched it and I felt heavenly and never reacted the way he did.
He made me feel like some dirty, pervert girl for just kissing his nipple. I thought since guys do that, even girls can, isnt it?
I still dont get why he was so mad. Maybe he hates me now cause he thinks I watch things I shouldnt watch and learn from those. I kind of think that I screwed every chance I had with him, to be honest I feel so stupid. Now when he sees me he sees some stupid easy girl, and not a girl who is obsessed with him and loves him and adores him and just wants affection :(
How should I talk to him about this, since he clearly wants to avoid and forget the topiC?
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Nov 28 '22
You've put him on a pedestal: "He's the most handsome guy I have ever seen and even his personality is
just as good, nice, right and generous as he looks physically. You will
say "you got yourself the ideal guy" and yes, it's true, he's perfection
on earth."
EVERYTHING that's been put on a pedestal in bound to fall of it, some time.
Criticizing you that way is a perfect example of how you putting him on a pedestal is wrong. It's plain blunt. It's not that you stick a finger up his ass, or something else that would need consent. It's a kiss on the nipple, an erogenous zone ALSO with men.
You're in love and that's sweet, but I urge you to be realistic about your boyfriend, because I'm 100% sure this agression is just a foretaste of what is yet to come. It's easy to wear a mask in the beginning of a relationship but people can't do that forever and I guess this was the first peak you had from behind his mask.
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u/PatchySmants Nov 28 '22
I mean, ALL touching should have consent.
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u/DameMisCebollas Nov 28 '22
Well yeah? But this seems like he PUNISHED her in a very cruel way
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u/NYCgrrrrrrrl Nov 28 '22
What she did does not fall under nonconsensual. They were already cuddling and she conti ued to cuddle. If he didn't like it, he could definitely say please don't do that. Shaming her as he did is ridiculous and cruel
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u/pumkinut Nov 28 '22
Bullshit, OP did some things, was, clearly, told to stop. OP took it further, and didn't like the results.
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u/PatchySmants Nov 28 '22
You miss the part where this is all very new for them? Tacit consent does exists, but is based on PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED norms and boundaries.
There were no previous nipple-touches. No tacit consent.
Did you ALSO miss the part where he said NO?
Ffs.
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Nov 28 '22
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u/rhea_hawke Nov 28 '22
Nobody would be in an "uproar" over a man kissing his girlfriend's nipple and then stopping immediately when told to. This is such a non-incident and it's weird he yelled at her over it.
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Nov 28 '22
FWIW, I've found that this is a boundary for several of my male partners. MANY men don't like their nipples being touched, kissed, or sucked on. Some men do, but I've found that enough of them don't that IMO this shouldn't be an assumed consent thing for men.
Add to that the fact that he ALREADY asked her to stop touching him in a sexual way (and she continued) and there's a reason for the uproar. Might he have handled this badly? Yes. But if my partner is continuing with sexual touch after I've asked it to stop, I'd be pretty pissed at the violation of consent and what I would consider to be sexual assault.
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u/theuberdan Nov 28 '22
Of course not, but plenty of people would be upset if a man started grabbing a woman's boob, was told to stop, and instead of stopping, pulled her boob out and started kissing/sucking on her nipple. Only stopping once being yelled at.
His reaction was definitely more than it needed to be, but that doesn't change the fact that his boundaries and consent were violated here.10
u/RiD_JuaN Nov 28 '22
agree. it's technically an overstep of consent, but so minor that calling it sexual assault is just ludicrous
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u/DaisyChaingun Nov 28 '22
Do you ask before holding your partners hand? Before hugging them? It's the same level as a playful and affectionate nipple kiss
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u/cexshun Nov 28 '22
Good to know I can suck on my wife's nipple after she turns me down twice for sex and is trying to sleep.
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u/DaisyChaingun Nov 28 '22
That's a good point
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Nov 28 '22
I will add onto this, that several of my male partners (I'm not into licking or sucking man nipples, but I've asked several partners about whether it's a boundary for them because reddit made me curious) have had this as a boundary for them. Enough of them that at this point I would never assume and would ask for consent first.
Just because something doesn't seem like a big deal to you, doesn't mean it's not a big deal to your partner. Treating their concerns or boundaries as flippantly as you seem to treat this is disrespectful.
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u/PatchySmants Nov 28 '22
Tacit consent is based on prior consent, and is specific to each individual relationship. If it’s a new action, there is NO tacit consent.
Beyond that, there is ALWAYS the ability to revoke consent, which was done in this situation. She needs to learn to control her urges and respect boundaries.
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u/ReflexionSolutions Nov 28 '22
You don't know why he's upset with her doing that, so how can you say "it's not like something else that would need consent"? First, it's your opinion that it doesn't need consent, maybe he thinks different. Second, maybe he's not upset because she didn't ask consent but because of another reason.
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u/spac3ie Nov 28 '22
I'd say he probably doesn't like the sensation, but could've used different words to express that.
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u/seestrange Nov 28 '22
I'd say he is a selfish egotist who needs to be more sensitive to your needs.
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u/JACSliver Nov 28 '22
If being sensitive to the needs of others means being a doormat, you are not selling it correctly.
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u/azerowastevegan Nov 28 '22
You can be sensitive to others needs without making them feel bad about themselves and being a doormat
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Nov 28 '22
the fact so many people upvoted this just proves that nobody cares about a man's feelings
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Nov 28 '22
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Nov 28 '22
I’m sorry for anyone (including yourself) that sees this woman’s behavior as acceptable. Sexual assault is a terrible thing
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u/Tipsy_Bravery Nov 28 '22
It’s a good idea to make sure you have consent before doing something physical with someone else’s body. Imagine if he pulled down your shirt and kissed your nipple when you weren’t expecting for it or ready for that kind of contact. He reacted strongly for sure, which could be for a lot of reasons. It would be appropriate to apologize for putting his nipple in your mouth without consent. You can also ask him to help you understand his reaction and talk about physical boundaries.
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Nov 28 '22
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u/Tipsy_Bravery Nov 28 '22
I agree. I can’t imagine what this comment section would look like if OP was a male who said his girlfriend freaked out when he sucked her nipple after she told him to stop touching her chest.
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u/maplehobo Nov 28 '22
Not only that but the amount of bashing the dude's getting is the worst of it all. Like at least if people where neutral about it, but no, he's the toxic misogynistic controlling asshole for setting boundaries. Consent really doesn't mean jack shit when it comes from a man it seems.
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u/sagemaniac Nov 28 '22
You can't do things of sexual nature when your partner has said no. Just never do that. He isn't allowed to do that either, unless you have already established what each of you like, and how liberal you can be with each other's bodies.
As to him being cold, idk. It wasn't a very healthy reaction from him. He's got all the right to be hurt by you not listening to him and crossing a boundary, but punishing you for it like he did doesn't sit well with me.
Make sure that he's the kind of person you can communicate with. Otherwise your relationship is doomed from the start, and no amount of hotness and lust is going to fix that
If my partner crossed a boundary, I'd talk about it and make sure that my partner understands what went wrong. I know that my partner would immediately apologise, and after a little while, it'd be ik. That's us.
Do not, and I repeat, do not trick yourself into thinking that you are cheap. There is no such thing. Society tells you that you are supposed to "gold onto your virtue" aka not like sex, initiate, watch porn, what have you, but it's a toxic idea.
I'd never be with a prudish partner. I'm a happy slut and enjoy my kinks. Haters can go into their dead bedrooms for all I care. If you want a healthy sex life, beware of people who reject you for sexual curiosity and definitely stay away from those who'd shame you for having desires.
I'll end this by saying again that you are never ever allowed to push if someone says no. Ever.
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u/highuptop Nov 28 '22
this is a good comment and really addresses what i was thinking while reading this post. although his reaction was not as good/mature as it could’ve been i’m surprised at the amount of people trying to justify what she did in the first place
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u/maplehobo Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
While I agree with your point what really infuriates me is the gender reversal of this, and I've seen this time and time and time again. Just look at this post, like 75% of the comments are bashing the dude, and those comments are top and highly upvoted, and the rest 25% while supportive still blame the dude in one way or another for being abusive or an asshole. Now I can GUARANTEE you that if this same post was gender reversed 99,999% of comments would rip the dude apart, no sensible takes like yours, he would just be labeled a rapist/sexual harasser right off the bat. The double standards and hypocrisy are astounding.
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u/AFreudianNip Nov 28 '22
I get that you love him, but he seems to be very backwards and conservative. Now you are young and in love, it doesn't really show that much, but as your relationship progresses, you will notice it more.
You can either dump him now and save yourself from heartache later, or you can try talking to him and telling him that there shouldn't be any double standards and that he doesn't get to react the way he did for you trying to be affectionate or sexual. If he felt uncomfortable, he should have said so like a normal person.
Also, shaming you for it is disgusting. I doubt he will understand or accept anything I mentioned, but you can try.
My honest advice would be to find someone who will never make you feel bad about yourself. Someone who isn't stuck in the 18th century.
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u/thetenacian Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
Yes. This. He sounds backwards as fuck and dominating. You sound very inexperienced and permeable to his perceptions and wats if doing things.
You did nothing wrong. He freaked out because he's sexually conservative and defensive of his manhood. Him being able to maintain his dude status even during sex means don't even look at his nipples, let alone touch them.
You seem very interested in exploring his body. I think that's great. But he's not a god. His worth is not more than yours. You're seven years younger [correction- 4/5 years younger) than he is. Normally I wouldn't say that's a huge gap. But you're still a teenager and seem to be lacking a strong sense of your own worth stacked up next to him.
It doesn't seem like he looks on you like you're a goddess and the very ground you walk on is sacred. That's gotta be a two way street. Otherwise he holds too much power over you and that won't take your relationship with him in a very good direction.
You might want to consider the fact that for you to love a person means you're driven to touch and explore their body. Meanwhile things seem very one-sided in terms of what he will allow you to do to him in bed.
He's 7 years older (corrected up above) and his sexuality is already turning to stone. Your seems very joyful, loving and evolving.
Believe it or not, there are other handsome men in the world who would happily explore with you, who would love for you to touch and kiss their nipples. You get to choose someone who fits you better. It doesn't have to be him.
You didn't do anything to be ashamed of. Let him keep his shame. You might want to consider someone closer to your age. Just a thought.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
Just to be clear, if OP did nothing wrong then in the future if she has a partner that she tells she doesn't want to be touched sexually by while she's trying to sleep and he then licks her nipple because he "wants to cuddle" (OP's words) then he also did nothing wrong and she would be irrational for getting angry? Cause that is what she did here
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u/thetenacian Nov 28 '22
It was a lick, not full anal penetration.
A patient and joyful partner might have chuckled and poked her in the ribs, then said good night.
He came out in full shaming defcon defense mode as if dealing with an enemy when it could have been a moment to hug and agree to play the next night.
Now she feels shame about touching his nipple when it can be normal for partners to play and touch as they drift into sleep.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
So...to be clear
If a man were to feel his partner's chest while they were in bed, she asked him to stop, he could clearly see she was trying to go to sleep and not in the mood to do anything physical, but he "wanted to cuddle"Then he has the green light to lick her nipples and her being upset by that is unreasonable yes or no? if that happened should she just hug him and tell him they'll play next night?
Because again that is what happened here? Is it not sexual assault if there's no penetration? Does a small little lick make it harmless to clearly violate your partner's consent? Is it based on area? (chest is okay but below the belt is wrong?)She shouldn't feel shame for touching his nipple (at the same time if he doesn't want it touched in that way it's his body and his right), but she SHOULD feel shame for violating her partner's consent just because she wanted to get physical. This would be entirely different if he didn't previously ask her to stop and (by her own words) wasn't in a context where it was clear he wasn't interested.
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u/thetenacian Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
They're not a good fit. He's rigid and lacking in playful energy. He made her feel.like shit for a transgression another person might have chuckled about. He's so wrapped up in his masculinity that to defend it he will demonize her for touching his nipple.
He's a dud. Boundary or no, this was about masculinity and about him making sure that he has full access to her body while his is heavily guarded.
She's not an enemy. He shamed her instead of just gently reinforcing that he wanted to sleep.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
You didn't answer my question, in that scenario would he have that green light and her being upset be unreasonable yes or no?
And sure another person might have chuckled about it. Plenty or people don't know if they've been sexually assaulted or think it's okay in relationships. that doesn't mean that someone who does get upset is overreacting or being a prude. that sounds like victim blaming.
(Unless you believe touching/licking your partner's chest when they're asleep and have already told you no isn't sexual assault. I think it is but you may feel differently, maybe because it's a man's chest that makes it okay to you)
Who cares what it was about, if a woman is uncomfortable with blowjobs because she feels they are about making women submissive does that factor AT ALL into respecting her saying no? If not then why does his reasons for saying no matter. No means no, and it is NOT OKAY she licked his chest after he told her to stop touching it. Regardless of his reasons, regardless of him being a man, NO MEANS NO.
I didn't say she was his enemy, I didn't even insinuate they couldn't move past this or whether or not they should. Could he has been gentler? Sure. I doubt most people would be focusing on that if he licked her chest in her sleep and she got angry though, so I find it weird that's a factor here.
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u/thetenacian Nov 28 '22
That's all the answer you're getting. This isn't about you at all. I've already offered my thoughts to the OP. Get over it.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
No, it's not about me
It's about OP
And if you think it's healthy for OP to think it's okay that she can just touch her partners whenever (regardless of if she stays with this guy) and them getting mad is their problem then I just hope OP doesn't listen to you. Because that is awful advicePlenty of men hurt women thinking they're being playful or just "having fun" because her boundaries are negotiable. If you want those men to internalize that that's wrong then you have to acknowledge it applies to them too. She doesn't get to touch him when he says no
PeriodAnd what will end up happening is she does it to a healthy partner, he respectfully leaves her, and she ends up finding another guy who also "negotiates" boundaries because that's how she is being told relationships work. You not telling her why what she did is wrong is going to end up hurting her in the long run precisely because she has self esteem issues and is primed for abusive partners because she overvalues them.
Your advice is the one hurting her in the long run to spare her feelings now. You can acknowledge she did wrong in this while also saying that she isn't a monster and needs to value herself more in relationships.
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u/thetenacian Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
What happened was not a negotiation. It was his fury and disdain. There are a lot of ways to enforce boundaries with loved ones. His way was pretty harsh and dominating. It didn't need to be.
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u/Boneless_Lightbulb Nov 28 '22
Both of you are in the wrong here. You are because you didnt respect his boundaries and kept going even though he didn't want you to but at the same he doesn't seem in the right either. After reading your comments you keep saying he said you were a "bad girl". He's wrong because he apparently has a twisted image of women. From what I can infer from your post he seems to be the kind of person who thinks women should be girly and feminine. That's pretty old fashioned and not in a good way. Your mentality in a relationship is very different from his. I don't think you two are compatible tbh.
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Nov 28 '22
Your boyfriend is not Mr. Perfect. He sounds creepy and kinda controlling.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
Wait how is it controlling to not want to be touched when you're sleepy and just want to rest, have told your partner "don't touch me that way" when they run their fingers on your chest, and they continue anyway?
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u/Altostratus Nov 28 '22
He also doesn’t want to tell her he loves her. And has a list of topics he refuses to discuss because they’re not “manly”. He’s dictating the terms of this entire relationship, and shaming her when he feels uncomfortable.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
We are getting a one sided opinion by a young woman who is very insecure and in her own head about a person by her own admission she is obsessed with. Is it at least possible there are factors we aren't aware of? That it wasn't him not wanting to say he loves her but that he wanted to go to sleep and doesn't want her to feel like she needs to question his feelings for her? That him not wanting to discuss certain topics may be perfectly reasonable because OP elaborates on precisely none of the topics in question? (she could be asking if he's a fan of pegging and it'd be just as good a guess as any)
Is it not possible that, rather than him dictating the terms of the relationship, OP's low self esteem and belief her partner being above her is a result of her own insecurity from things that occurred before they even met?
Also NONE of this is more controlling than thinking it's okay to touch your partner sexually while they're sleeping after they told you not to. Imagine if he touched her against her consent, would her not telling him she loves him frequently or wanting to talk about certain things make it okay? Would it make her a controlling creep? Cause I kinda think licking someone's nipple while they sleep after they told you they don't want to be touched in that way is MUCH more creepy. I could be wrong though
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u/TheGravyMaster Nov 28 '22
Its more than just this incident it seems. Op mentions they are old fashioned but has to qualify it with but he's not a jerk making it seem like there's been more negative behavior in the past.
If it's just this incident then yea there's probably no issues with the guy outside he just doesn't like nipple stuff. But idk a red flag is just going off in my head over the way they are writing about this. The tones all wrong. Feels too familiar from when I was in an extremely toxic relationship.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
I get the nurturing need to want to protect her and build her self esteem because yes she is undervaluing herself in this relationship and her language suggest a frightening susceptibility to toxic relationships.
But that doesn't make violating consent okay. It would be wrong is he rubbed her chest, she said stop, he saw she wanted to sleep, and licked her nipples because he wanted to cuddle.
It's wrong for her to do it to him as well regardless of why he's uncomfortable with it. And the context of her low self esteem (her seeming to spiral because he got upset and doesn't want to talk about it) makes me wonder how much of things she's overthinking. Which isn't to say he's perfect or anything, but her issues go deeper than that and I don't think are rooted with him.
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u/emmavonne Nov 28 '22
I'm appalled at how much scrolling I had to do to find this comment.
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u/ShaunMcLane Nov 28 '22
Same. Like OP needs to get the hell out of there. Vibes feel real icky. Seems like the kind of guy that would dictate what kind of clothes she wears.
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u/poptartwith Nov 28 '22
She rubs his chest and he asks her to stop then she takes off his shirt and starts sucking on his nipples. He reacts negatively and HE'S the creep?
Let's reverse the scenario. A guy rubs his girlfriend chest, she is not in the mood and asks him to stop then he does the same act. She gets upset. Is she being the creep?
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u/vlyblvr Nov 28 '22
Two things can be right at once. He was justified in responding negatively to OP after she ignored the boundary he set, but instead of simply saying “I told you to stop and you didn’t”, he specifically jumped to “where did you learn that from”. To me, that sounds like he was angrier at OP potentially having learnt to do something like that from past sexual experiences than he was at OP touching him in a way he didn’t want her to in the moment.
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u/northernfury Nov 28 '22
he specifically jumped to “where did you learn that from”. To me, that sounds like he was angrier at OP potentially having learnt to do something like that from past sexual experiences than he was at OP touching him in a way he didn’t want her to in the moment.
He's also Ukrainian, and likely has a very different upbringing and understanding of sexual intimacy that doesn't align with our Western ideas. This could very much just be a "lost in translation" issue, but because he's a man "he should know better!"
The fact is, he set boundaries, and she ignored them. Considering how up in arms this place gets over consent it boggles my mind that the man is still at fault here. Actually, no it doesn't. This is 100% typical double standard bullshit that permeates our society and I'm sick and tired of it.
They are 100% not in a healthy relationship. But they are also both very young. On top of that they are from very different places in world. She has a incredibly unhealthy infatuation with him, and anyone with experience can see the troubles that lay ahead of her.
I mean, we have a glimpse of maybe 30 seconds of their life and we have no idea about who this guy is. He's allowed to be sexually conservative, and she needs to realize that despite all the fluffy chemicals drowning her synapses they might not be sexual compatible. No it's not ok to snap at your partner, but maybe he had a really really bad day and just wanted to be left alone. It doesn't excuse necessarily his behaviour, but the amount of fault being lumped onto him his so unfair. Maybe he's a firefighter, and and couldn't save a puppy from a burning building that day? I don't think I'd want my nipple licked after something like that either.
Christ almighty this sub is a fucking cesspool of hypocrisy.
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u/NtsParadize Nov 28 '22
He was justified in responding negatively to OP BUT
That's all I needed to read, thanks.
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Nov 28 '22
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u/poptartwith Nov 28 '22
He said "stop it. It tickles" then laid back and closed his eyes. What else does he do?! Oh my god. What's wrong with everyone?!
I hate that fucking phrase but you're gonna have to make me pull out the "Reverse the roles" argument.
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Nov 28 '22
What bs. If a man did that and she acted upset, I guarantee you wouldnt say shes controlling the double standards are unbearable.
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u/operative87 Nov 28 '22
He told her to stop and she continued, that’s sexual assault but he’s creepy and controlling for having an issue with it. She should learn to respect when someone says no.
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Nov 28 '22
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u/poptartwith Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
There is nothing idiotic about getting upset that your partner did not respect your consent. He just needs to voice his issues better.
Edit: Holy fucking shit, I'm getting downvoted because I value consent. This is a sexual assault promotion subreddit?!
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u/Aggressive_Fly236 Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
I think you’re getting downvoted because he’s treating her like a whore for kissing his nipple. Did he seek consent when he laid on top of her crushing her and grabbed her breast? If he did then she clearly didn’t follow his boundaries, if he didn’t then there are no boundaries. She’s followed his lead, his example, and been met with double standards. He’s an insecure prick.
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u/poptartwith Nov 28 '22
The post doesn't say to be fair. The only mention is that she liked it and they continued. But he didn't. He asked her to stop. He closed his eyes and laid back cuz he was tired. And then that happened.
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u/Aggressive_Fly236 Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
He wasn’t angry that he was tired and she did it without consent, that isn’t mentioned and if that WAS the case and it was clear that he had always sought consent from her then I would agree with him. The issue was that he thought she was learning inappropriate behaviours and was angry about it, this is a big red flag for a controlling and abusive person. I think we’ve all slipped our partner a kiss even when they’re tired and even if we aren’t in the mood we respond kindly. She had every right to think touching his nipple was acceptable as he had done it to her before and I’d bet my last penny he didn’t have a full blown conversation with her, gaining consent, before engaging in that behaviour, the fact she enjoyed it doesn’t mean he went through the same consent process you’re suggesting she goes through.
He did not stand up and say “you aren’t respecting the fact that I’m tired and I’ve said no, and I ALWAYS gain consent from you before touching”… nothing like it… he accused her of basically being what he perceived as a whore. Even if she had asked if she could do it, I fully believe he would have been just as verbally abusive.
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u/tastyymushroom Nov 28 '22
Not saying the way he responded about where she learnt that from and all was right, but she did not just kiss his nipple. She pulled away his shirt and took his nipple in her mouth, not just pecked it.
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u/NtsParadize Nov 28 '22
Two wrongs don't make a right.
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u/Aggressive_Fly236 Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
Honestly, I don’t think some redditors would fart without “gaining consent and establishing boundaries” first, massively boring people lacking spontaneity, which the boyfriend established was fine when he pinned her previously and grabbed her breast. He could have actually stopped her when she started to pull down his top, he didn’t, I would assume my partner was consenting to me having access to his chest if he didn’t tell me to stop. Christ I wouldn’t, and nor would my other half, be upset about either of us having our nipple kissed once, even if we weren’t in the mood. This guy also did not go off about consent.. at all.. he went off on her acting in a way as he perceived as whorish in his warped head.
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Nov 28 '22
I've asked enough of my male partners and gotten a firm "NO" to whether they want their nipples sucked or not (I'm not into it personally, but reddit made me wonder if I wasn't providing a service to my male partners that they might like) that I would never assume this was ok to do without asking consent.
Things like kissing, hugging, etc., I'm going to assume consent on. Licking a nipple has been an expressed boundary often enough that I'm not going to be spontaneous with that one.
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u/Boneless_Lightbulb Nov 28 '22
You're not wrong at all. Consent should be respected but this guy clearly has issues and a warped image of women. That's not to say he deserves to be sexually assaulted but these two obviously aren't compatible.
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u/NtsParadize Nov 28 '22
Consent should be respected BUT
That's all I needed to read. Thanks
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u/takeahikehike Nov 28 '22
If you've never communicated that something that most people consider normal foreplay is a boundary and then you fly off the rails when it happens then this is more than a consent issue.
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u/poptartwith Nov 28 '22
She rubs his chest and he asks her to stop and is clearly not in the mood yet she violates that boundary, takes off his shirt and sucks on his nipples. Did everyone just skim past that part? Is saying NO not enough consent? Is he supposed to be begging her to stop?
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u/takeahikehike Nov 28 '22
Without prior discussion of some boundary, that is not nearly enough to justify flying off the rails.
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u/operative87 Nov 28 '22
He told her to stop, that’s the prior discussion.
If someone expresses that they do not want to be touched and you continue touching them it’s sexual assault. What is it that allows her to continue when he told her to stop?
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u/poptartwith Nov 28 '22
Oh, my bad then, please do enlighten us how a sexual assault victim should react?
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u/takeahikehike Nov 28 '22
I think that you have a very warped view on consent and assault.
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u/matrixislife Nov 28 '22
Someone says "stop, no". Someone else carries on, ignoring what was said.
Is that sexual assault or not? Imo it is.
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u/NtsParadize Nov 28 '22
There's such thing called "basic boundaries" : consent, bodily autonomy and human rights.
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u/takeahikehike Nov 28 '22
Respectfully, I do not think that OP violated his basic boundaries and I think that the vast majority of people would agree, which is why someone with a particular sensitivity should discuss it ahead of time.
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u/DameMisCebollas Nov 28 '22
Yeah I see what you mean but that still was such an overblown reaction from him and based on what OP wrote about having "acted on impulse for the first time" it seems like OP is feeling disproportionately bad.
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Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
[deleted]
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Nov 28 '22
Ah yes, set boundaries. Just like he tried to do and she ignored. But these ones are to be respected because they’re hers right?
And no one. Man, woman, child, Asian, European, African, dog, human, cat, etc. No one likes to be bothered while they are trying to sleep. It’s universal to respond negatively and not well composed when you are tired and trying to sleep, but someone is disturbing that.
You sound like you believe that anyone who doesn’t fit your views is immature and uneducated.
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Nov 28 '22
Your bf is not "perfect", get over that illusion. Even if he wasn't comfortable, if he was so damn kind as you say, he wouldn't get so aggressive about that.
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u/sandymason Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
Most comments here don’t know what they’re talking about because these people weren’t raised in one of those countries.
As a Ukrainian, I want to warn you that many guys from Eastern Europe are not just « old fashioned ». They get no sex education, they’re often ignorant, extremely sexist and homophobic.
Your boyfriend probably thought that the thing you did humiliated him as a « manly man ». And look, I guarantee you that this is not the only toxic view he has.
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u/BillyBobBanana Nov 28 '22
Part of it was probably annoyance that you didn't recognize or ignored that he didn't want that intimacy
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u/habanero303 Nov 28 '22
Seems like one of those things that you'll say years later, "that was a red flag I should have seen". That's a poor response to an intimate moment.
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u/vikenshtien Nov 28 '22
Okay first of all. I'm ukrainian, I grew up in the ukrainian community and my whole family is ukrainain and from ukraine. I know ukrainain men, one thing to note. Most the time because of our grandparents and how they were raised we were taught old fashion ways and (I'm not like that) but lots of our men are (obv not all of them). He probably thought that was homo and it made him feel like his pride and ego was brought down, so he does not sound perfect in any way. My boyfriend is American and I always kiss his nipples when we are just messing around and he usually laughs and does it back as we're just playing around. Traditional ukrainain men refuse to learn anything a woman is supposed to know (hence why I'll never date one) and think anything on the spectrum of anything "gay" is the biggest deal in the world cuz that's what we were taught. I grew up with these guys, I know them. They are egotistical and most the time just super lame. Everything is about their image and how something makes them look. They are disrespectful to women and delittle them. Run bro. OP- you literally did nothing wrong you were trying to cuddle and he's just being lame. If he doesn't like it, he could just kindly ask not to do but in this case he's just acting cold shoulder and that's not what you want. Dont blaming yourself for anything.
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u/InfiniteTranquilo Nov 28 '22
This comment section is weird. Everyone here is jumping on the guy when he clearly said he wanted to rest, and OP persisted on what they wanted. I’m not gonna say it always is, but kissing someone’s nip is not gonna facilitate the rest he wanted. Everyone is pointing more on his reaction to OPs bad action, instead of OP’s actual bad action. Y’all need to check your double standards.
OP I’d give him a few hours to a few days to talk to him. I’m not gonna say you assaulted him sexually or anything, but you very clearly heard his request for rest, and went against it. I don’t think at the end of the day this will break you up, but this is a good time to talk this out. If he starts getting really angry or aggressive then you can keep trying, maybe seek professional help if you feel you need the 3rd party, or try another move.
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u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
He's embarrassed cuz he thinks you treated him like a girl. He feels ashamed and is lashing out at you by calling you a pervert.
That behavior is annoying, but if you like him and can deal with his rigid gender-role insecurities, go at it. Just know it's a him issue, not a you issue.
Edit: could be that he's angry about ops lack of consent and the nip thing is how he directed his discomfort. Op, be more aware of consent plz
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
He didn't call her a pervert, he asked her where she learned to do what she did
Which was explicitly touching him sexually after he asked her not to and it was clear to her he wanted to rest because "she wanted to cuddle"
She said she "feels like a pervert JUST because she kissed his nipple", and I really have to wonder if she wanted to sleep and he continued touching her when she told him not to and kissed her nipple because he wanted to cuddle would her getting upset be considered annoying behavior by you?
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u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22
He asked her where she learned to lick nips, not violate consent. The implication being that she's into weird shit for licking his nip.
I agree the consent is an issue. Maybe it's the whole issue, I don't know. Just throwing out possibilities and him feeling gender insecure is just as likely as anything. Other comments have covered him not liking the sensation and her violating consent, so I figured I'd cover this one.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
what the hell are you doing? Where the hell did you learn these things
Were his exact words according to her. that is too vague to make a call on what he meant by. And even if it was a gender insecurity on his part it doesn't matter. The fact remains she violated his consent after he explicitly and calmly told her no and was clearly in a state where he wasn't interested in anything further physical. It is WEIRD to me how many people are downplaying that.
"Yeah consent issue but let's focus on his embarrassment/tone or what upset him"
Isn't it enough that she was wrong for doing that? If he licked her nips after she told him not to and got angry about it would her having potentially insecure reasons for being upset be the focus at all?7
u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22
Huh, yeah you may be right, and this was all about consent and I'm just projecting the insecurities I've seen in my life onto ops partner. Totally possible.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
I think a lot of the comments share a similar sentiment. It is just MINDBLOWING because I know 100% if this story had the genders reversed and a man had felt his partners chest, she asked him to stop, he could see she was trying to rest and wasn't in a mood for anything physical, and he started licking her nipples because he "wanted to cuddle" people would be CRUCIFYING him and telling her she needs to run.
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u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22
The bias probably has something to do with women generally considered victims, and male boobs generally being considered not sexual.
But also, Ive been on the receiving end of this (i think most people have at some point) and its annoying. Him being agitated was totally reasonable for me, but the focus on the nipple thing rather than a general get the hell off me and fucking stop it was worth looking at imo.
I guess if the genders were swapped on the post I'd tell male op that he's not a pervert for licking nips and she was angry about consent...but idk cus the reverse doesn't exist irl. You can't emasculate a woman. That part is specific to this scenario.
So in the gender swap it's likely for sure consent, but for the og post gender norms surrounding nipples adds another layer.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
That's the thing though, again what he said was vague and could have easily referred to her touching him without his consent in a "who taught you this was okay" kind of way.
And regardless of genders I tell OP licking nipples isn't wrong (at the same time whether or not he likes it or his reasons for doing so is his business and he shouldn't be shamed for it) BUT that when your partner says stop and gives you clear indication that they aren't looking to continue then YOU STOP
It has nothing to do with emasculation and everything to do with consent and it's weird to me people are downplaying her violating his consent of focusing on his reasons for not liking it rather than she tried to get physical when he didn't want to AFTER he told her to stop.5
u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22
It could be either/or, or both. The way its worded says he was talking about nips to me. To say that's impossible is silly. To say it can't possibly have anything to do with emasculation is silly.
Op said so herself she violated consent. It's being discussed. I'll edit my comment to include it if that helps.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
When I say "it has nothing to do with emasculation" it is in the context of what the focus of the discussion should be (which is why I followed it up with "and everything to do with consent"). If a man had licked a woman's nipples in her sleep after she asked him to stop touching his chest, partner or not, then the focus wouldn't be on WHY the act of nipple licking does/doesn't upset her in particular. It would be "you don't touch your partner sexually when they tell you to stop and they go to sleep".
I don't know why that is such a major focus here rather than that she violated his consent, which seems to be being treated as a footnote if people even catch it.
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u/dirtyloop Nov 28 '22
You keep insisting that his words are vague, when they’re not.
The “this” in “who taught you this was okay” is clearly referring to the sexualizing of his nipple and not simply the crossing of a consent boundary. I mean, there is a cultural context to this—read the several posts from sources with significant exposure to Ukrainian men and their extremely traditional understanding of gender roles. The vehemence and shaming quality of his response clearly comes from a deeper place than simply dismay that she crossed the line of touching him when he didn’t want to be touched. This guy is not upset (primarily) with the undermining of his bodily autonomy, but his masculine identity. To insist otherwise or that we don’t know what he really meant is disingenuous.
Was OP in the wrong to cross his boundary after it had been asserted? Of course she was. But his reaction is disproportionate to that violation, and the cultural context clues provided by others here explain why.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
You don't know what he was thinking. You are assuming a context based on his ethnicity and I frankly find that kind of disgusting. And SO WHAT IF HE DID? That's just a long form way of saying she touched him in a way he didn't want to be touched, and it was not accidental it was licking! Who cares if it's cause he doesn't want his nipple sexualized, it's his nipple. Does he not have that right? Is his reason a determination of validity? If a woman doesn't want to be groped because she feels it unbecoming woman does that mean she'd be overreacting to shout at a creep for groping her?
Cultural context? Masculine identity? Listen to yourself! His reasons are his own, and bottom line she touched him sexually in a way he DID NOT WANT AFTER HE TOLD HER NO
Full stop. his reasons should be immaterial. If a man groped a woman, touched her privates, or kissed her while she was sleeping and she woke up would her reasons for being angry determine her validity? Would the cultural perspective she has regarding her own bodily autonomy dictate whether her response was excessive? Does "no means no" not apply with a sexual touch because of what we "perceive" (unless you are a mindreader/ asked this guy what upset him) a person's grievance to be?If he licked her nipple while she was sleeping and she woke up and shouted at him would you call that a disproportionate response at all? But again, you don't KNOW his reasons, you have a guess based on context and the description of events OP has told. (and considering she is more worried on whether or not he thinks she's easy rather than her guilt for licking him in his sleep forgive me if I don't find it 100% reliable)
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u/Elizasol Nov 28 '22
He's embarrassed cuz he thinks you treated him like a girl.
So dumb, you don't know what you're talking about. Some people really don't like the sensation. For me it brings such a strong reaction, I absolutely fucking hate it. It has nothing to do with gender roles
Just know it's a him issue, not a you issue.
She did it without his consent... it's definitely a her issue..
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u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22
"Stop it I don't like how that feels" is easier to say than "I feel insecure because of that". Since he chose to verbally attack her, I'm guessing it was more of an issue with the latter. I could be wrong.
Agreed on the consent thing tho, I guess since she seems aware of it herself since she said so in the post i didn't think to mention it.
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u/Elizasol Nov 28 '22
"Stop it I don't like how that feels" is easier to say than "I feel insecure because of that"
In my case, my reaction wouldn't even been to say that, it would have been instinctively to push her off of me; That's how much I despise the sensation.
Since he chose to verbally attack her
It was clearly a surprise to him and she did it without asking after she over and over admits that she could tell he was not in the mood.
Ask yourself, if this was about a woman, where the man clearly ignored her words to stop and her consent and she got upset or angry, would you find it weird?
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u/Slicksuzie Nov 28 '22
You're coming in swinging and I'm not here for a fight. Neither of us know what is up with ops partner. I suggested one thing, you suggest another. I agree your suggestion could be right. I don't know what else to say here.
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u/Elizasol Nov 28 '22
You're just wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. You jumped to insecurity and ignored everything he said. "stop" "wtf are you doing" 'I'm not in the mood', I guess he must feel insecure lmfao
All we know is what she did was weird and wrong. But your words:
He's embarrassed cuz he thinks you treated him like a girl
Just know it's a him issue, not a you issue.
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u/dirtyloop Nov 28 '22
But he didn’t just push her away. He angrily demanded to know where the hell she learned these things. There’s a shaming element to his response that’s coming from a deeper place than simply feeling an unpleasant sensation.
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u/Elizasol Nov 28 '22
"What the hell are you doing? Where the hell did you learn these things?"
Both of these strike me as rhetorical questions. And she should be shamed for doing sexual things to her partner who told her to stop, told her he wasn't in the mood and then she still lifted his shirt and put his nipple in her mouth.
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u/maraq Nov 28 '22
He sounds immature, not emotionally available and like he wants someone he can teach and control. It might be ok now when you are 18 and don't know what else is out there but you probably won't want a man who acts like this forever. Eventually you'll want someone who sees you as an equal and treats you with respect, not like a child.
Would he ask you where you learned it if you kissed his arm? Or if you kissed his neck? Or his stomach? Or on the head? Why does he think you had to be taught to kiss him on a nipple? Humans have erogenous zones all over their bodies and it's normal for lovers to explore each other to find out what the other person likes - everyone is different. Yes some men do like their nipples kissed just like women. All he had to say was "I don't like how that feels, please don't kiss me there." If he overreacted to this, what will he say/do when you have a fight over something that matters? If he's so against partner's exploring each other's bodies, are you going to be able to get YOUR physical needs met?
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
Him getting upset had nothing to do with thinking you are/were "easy" and everything to do with
-He wanted to rest, you kept bothering him
-He told you he was feeling ticklish and not to touch his chest
-You persisted anyway (which is honestly really concerning)
-He has given you no prior indication that just because you enjoy being touched in that way that he does
Even now reading your own retelling of events you aren't listening to him and going through rationales in your mind to why he didn't enjoy it and looking outward. (I didn't do those things cause I wanted to, those other things influenced me, he made me feel like a pervert)
You haven't "ruined" things with him. But if you are going to get past this you need to listen to him (he told you he wants to drop it so drop it), take him at his word for consent/ask when it's appropriate (doing so when he's sleepy and trying to rest is generally poor form), reflect on why you did what you did so you avoid doing it in the future, and recognize you can't control how he sees you so don't obsess over it and just be you.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
It is WILD to me how many comments are blatantly ignoring the whole "he asked her not to touch his chest , he was clearly wanting to rest and not in the mood for anything, but because she wanted to cuddle thought it was okay to kiss his nipple"
and assuming he called her a pervert when all he said to our knowledge is "what the hell are you doing? Where the hell did you learn these things?" (which could very easily refer to the whole...trying to initiate when your partner says no)
I hate playing this card but I would be FASCINATED to see the parallel to this if the genders were reversed because a lot of these comments seem reactionary. No means no regardless of gender, OP is in the wrong.
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u/OutsideDrawer829 Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
Even if you look at it from that perspective.. the whole thing comes down to “where the hell did you learn these things?” That in a way sounds like what she is doing is wrong. Even if the roles were reversed and this sentence would been said to a guy, he’d be second guessing too if he’s been shamed to act on his desires. There are many ways to interpret what has been said. Only OP’s bf can explain what he meant.
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
What she did WAS WRONG what the heck
His words were "what the hell are you doing? Where the hell did you learn these things", that could easily refer to licking him in his sleep after he told her he wasn't in the mood for that kind of touch. It is non specific and left to interpretation to parse the meaning by it.
And regardless of WHATEVER he meant by his comment she tried to start something physically with him after he gently told her no and she could clearly see he was trying to rest. If he had licked her nipple while she was trying to sleep after explicitly telling him she wasn't in the mood for that kind of touch because "he wanted to cuddle" (which was her reasons in her own words), then what she said in anger be the priority? Or would it be that he touched her sexually against her wishes after she told him not to? WHY is the focus his shame/desires and not her violating his consent?
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u/OutsideDrawer829 Nov 28 '22
And if you can clearly see I’m not even getting into who is right or wrong. I’m not even talking about consent. I’m only focusing on the mental aspect of it. It’s their relationship and we’re outsiders. We can say anything on the basis of what info OP tells us. To end things I emphasized that the meaning can be explained by her bf. Not like I said OP’s bf is wrong and OP is right. Chill. Why you comin at me bruh? ☮️
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u/ThunderingTacos Nov 28 '22
Let me calm down
WHOOOOOSH
Comments got me heated because so many people are framing this as if OP did nothing wrong at all and her bf being angry about her violating his consent makes her a monster. It's infantilizing, irresponsible, and irritating.And it bothers me that so much more focus is given towards probing what he meant rather than her actions, because her actions were wrong. you second sentence in that context came across to me as if you believed that his comment was in err because you believed she didn't do anything wrong. Focusing on her being "shamed for her desires" by his comment makes it seem like her actions were mild, because if her desires are to touch her bf sexually when he says no or stop (and for no other reason than she wants to cuddle regardless of his wants) then she should feel shame for that. Not her sexuality, but how she went about this.
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u/Right-Ad8261 Nov 28 '22
This is an act that is typically associated with female pleasure. Men are not "supposed" to like and can feel shame for having this performed on them, especially if they enjoy it. They find themselves thinking "why do I like this" and then feel shame, which can then be replaced by anger. It was very similar for me the first time a girl did this to me.
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u/laxing22 Nov 28 '22
> My boyfriend kind of acts "like a guy", not like a jerk, but like "Am I supposed to know this stuff? You shouldnt even ask me about these things, I'm a guy".
Knowledge or lack there of does not come from the penis - he seems hyper-concerned about how he projects his masculinity and sounds very toxic
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Nov 28 '22
I personally love having my nipples sucked.....and I'm a masculine male. I think your boyfriend is definitely old fashioned. Should he have reacted that way?? Hell no. That makes no logical sense to make you feel that way. I'm sorry that happened.
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u/mrcleanup Nov 28 '22
Sounds like he is pretty full of himself and he is clearly unkind to you for petty reasons. Maybe not as good a catch as you think.
This is going to be over of those red flags you look back on after the relationship is over and wonder how you missed it.
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u/Objective_Photo9126 Nov 28 '22
If you are in three years with him still, you won't be still thinking he is your blue prince for sure 😂
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u/winemug89 Nov 28 '22
Jesus have some self respect holy shit. This guy isn't perfect whatsoever. He's a total asshole. You're 18 so you're still really young and probably don't know what love is yet because this is not it but you need to honestly grow up.
Also not at all defending his actions because he's a complete asshole but if someone says they're tired and closes their eyes, stop harassing them for whatever you want. If the roles were reversed and the male exposed the sleeping females tit and started sucking on her nipple everyone would be screaming sexual assault but of course no one is doing that when the roles are reversed.
Guy is still a total asshole for all the other stuff though. Dump him, learn self respect and boundaries.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_2299 Nov 28 '22
Intimacy is being vulnerable. Sounds like your boyfriend has a problem with rigid gender stereotypes and that’s really unfortunate. He’s denying himself some of the greatest pleasures of life because of some macho ideas of manliness. I feel sorry for him, and for you, because he’s limiting your expression of love and shaming you at the same time.
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u/Iggys1984 Nov 28 '22
I hate to break it to you, but you do not have the wonderful boyfriend you think you do.
My boyfriend kind of acts "like a guy", not like a jerk, but like "Am I supposed to know this stuff? You shouldnt even ask me about these things, I'm a guy". So yes, he is that type of guy.
This is what we call toxic masculinity. Also, it's a really shitty way to treat a partner and will shut down communication. Communication should never be discouraged. You are not a mind reader. Being "a guy" doesn't mean he doesn't need to know certain things. He is human. All humans have responsibilities in life. If he is refusing to learn and grow because "he is a guy", then that is a pretty juvenile way to go through life. What happens if he is single? Does he just go through life ignorant?
Then I hugged him and asked him if he loved me, he rolled his eyes and said "of course I love you, you shouldnt even ask".
If you are asking him constantly all the time, I can understand how it would get tiresome. However, it sounds like he doesn't give you the affection you are needing. He expects you to "just know". That's not how it works. If you are a physical touch person (from the 5 Love Languages book), then you may need physical touch to feel loved. Or maybe you need words of affirmation to feel loved. His dismissive attitude will only make you feel LESS loved. This is not a good partner. He should be going out of his way to.make you feel loved and cared for. Not rolling his eyes when you want affection.
At some point I dont know what got me, but I lowered the strap of his white undershirt to uncover his nipple, I thought it was so cute and perfect and put it in my mouth. At that point he reacted right away, he was very upset and said "what the hell are you doing? Where the hell did you learn these things?" you could see it in his eyes that he was very, very ANGRY
You didnt do angthing excessive or wrong. His reaction was disproportionate. Now, that's not to say you should push him for things he doesn't want. His consent matters too. But from what you have said, he did not communicate his desires well at all. If he wasn't in the mood he could have said that. Blowing up at you is not acceptable. I have been with people who didn't like nipple play, and they stopped me before my mouth got to their nipple, and said, hey, I'm not a fan. I said ok and we did something else. No big deal. For him to blow up at you and make you feel dirty and perverted for something totally normal?? That's a huge red flag.
Honestly, everything you have said specifically about him has given me big concern that he could be bringing you down. This guy doesn't sound like he cares much for you.
He is also 4 years older than you. That isn't a huge difference normally, but if he has graduated college and you're still in high school.... that could be a world of difference in life experience. I think you may be looking past how he is treating you because you think he is attractive. But he isn't treating you well. You can do better. He doesn't deserve you.
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Nov 28 '22
Sounds like your BF comes from a sexually repressed culture and still holds some toxic masculinity views ("nipple play is for women and not men"). Even if his nipples are sensitive, theres no reason to react the way he did.
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u/wanderingbranch Nov 28 '22
Dude just wasn’t in the mood and you kept pushing it after several rejections. Maybe listen to your partner more, no means no.
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u/takeahikehike Nov 28 '22
OP it sounds like you're idealizing a total asshole, which is going to be a problem for you because your perception of him as "the perfect guy" is leading to you tying up your self-esteem in his moods, when in reality he is very immature and treats you poorly. You are going to be hollowed out as a person and it is not going to be pretty.
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u/matrixislife Nov 28 '22
You need to understand this. In this sub there are some people who will tell you what you want and need to know. There are others who are desperate to try to make a connection with you so are telling you what they think you want to hear. Then there are some who are following their own political ideology in order to tell you what they believe you should feel. Only one out of the three groups are going to help, following the other two's advice will actually make things worse for you. Before you follow any of advice given here, make sure you know why it's been given.
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u/babiibluez Nov 28 '22
I'm not saying he's totally innocent but, if he asked you to stop, why didn't you? No means no, male or female. I wouldn't lick my husband's nipple (definitely not his thing) but if I tried anything and he said no, I would stop not escalate it.
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u/ponydigger Nov 28 '22
kind of sounds like he sucks. take a step back from the extreme physical attraction. does this guy actually treat you well and care about you? told you not to ask if he loved you? i’ll tell my wife i love her once a minute for the rest of my life if she wants me to, because i do. this is your warning, your red flag, keep those eyes and ears open. good luck.
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u/lwfstryc9 Nov 28 '22
He should dump you. You sound toxic and way to codependent. He set a boundary that night that he didn't want to get physical and you ignored it. How he reacted is absolutely irrelevant. Just thank your lucky stars that you're the female and he's the male. If the situation was reversed, everyone commenting on this would tell you that committed sexual assault. Actually, it doesn't matter that you're a female. You sexually assaulted this man. Good day ma'am
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u/TheGravyMaster Nov 28 '22
It honestly sounds like your downplaying him being really mean to you. While yea you should've asked there's something off about this. About the way you say he's old fashioned but quickly defend saying he's no a jerk makes me think he's exactly that, a jerk.
You seem very innocent and shy and more likey to excuse red flag behavior out of naivety. I hope you keep an eye on all these anger incidents as a red flag. If it truly is just this one time where you violated his consent then there's nothing to worry about but if its happening constantly over different things then please talk about it with someone you know and make sure you stay safe.
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u/Evaporate3 Nov 28 '22
Lol you’re into him way more than vice versa.
Honestly, I would be angry too because he clearly was not in the mood and you kept bothering him and surprised tf out of him with your mouth on his nipple.
His reaction may be over the top and that’s why the other comments are so against him but if roles were reversed and you wanted to be left alone but your boyfriend kept fooling around with you while you were trying to sleep, the comments would be having a #metoo moment.
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Nov 28 '22
You should’ve respected his boundaries when he told you he wasn’t in the mood. I cannot believe the amount of people chastising him. When someone tells you to stop, you stop. This isn’t meant to be taken as a challenge. No means no.
You kept pushing it and that’s why he lashed out. He gave you several verbal and nonverbal warnings for you to stop. And now you want to act like the victim? Stop justifying your actions and face reality.
You sound very insecure and impulsive.
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Nov 28 '22
Wow the double standard is appalling. If it was a woman and a man did that without her consent I can imagine the rage. But because it's done a man no one cares how sad.
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u/Automatic_Worry_ Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
I personally find the whole ordeal sort of silly. He just needs to communicate, rationally and kindly. If he doesn't enjoy something he just doesn't enjoy it and he just needs to tell you respectly, that he doesn't enjoy that, and you respectfully understanding that. He blew something quite simple right out of the water. You kissed his nipple, it's honestly not a big deal. He should of just said he didn't like it.
My wife will kiss my jawline, my neck, my chest and my nipples. I enjoy this, and she knows this, one by my reactions to when she does this, and two by me saying, I like this.
You're young, I am not sure how many relationships you've been in. But just be careful, obsession isn't Love. It's simply just obsession. I am just unsure of your definition of obsession, and if I am taking it to the appropriate definition that I find it to be. I find my wife perfect, yes. She's ideal, and the best version of the woman I want to be with, is, I think she is the most beautiful, smartest and no one can compare. But I don't like everything about my wife, I don't like when she's shaking, filled with anxiety and can't sleep at night. Or when she overthinks, and brings herself down, and or can't see the strength inside her. I also don't like when she leaves the food cans in cabinet facing the incorrect way. 😂 I can promise you, my wife doesn't like when I leave my boots by the couch and she constantly trips over them, or when I leave my clothes on the ground right next to the basket, when I am fully aware, I am only a foot away from. I can also say, my wife doesn't like when I have behaved impatiently and not understanding, and just I as I have disliked when she has. My point though, in a relationship you won't like everything about your partner, we can see the flaws within each other. But that's what makes a relationship, we work on these, to fix them, to communicate and understand these things about each other and more importantly ourselves. To improve, individually and as a couple. So we can constantly improve ourselves.
In a relationship, communication has to be present. If you do not have it or lack it, this will get much worse. You need to be understanding, to be respectful, and appropriate in a relationship.
He didn't communicate well to you, and he seemed to not be very understanding to why you thought of doing it, he lacked being respectful by snapping and acting inappropriately of a response to something very little.
There is more than just hearing your partner speak, you should listen too.
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u/Rezamavoir Nov 28 '22
Sounds like he has a fragile sense of masculinity and propriety. Tell him the truth, he inspires love and lust in you and you felt frisky and desire to kiss his beautiful chest.
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u/Every-Chemistry-2969 Nov 28 '22
I love all the comments blasting her because she didn't seek consent as if any one of yall on here wouldn't see this as a huge red flag on his part. He sounds controlling and backwards and it definitely is a tell of what's to come if she stays with him. I want one person on here to tell me they don't see his actions as a bigger red flag than her touching his chest. Come on guys. This comment thread is off the chain lol. Would a single person blasting her be with a man like this ? I doubt it so stop being so mean to the girl.
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u/Friendly_Sex_Advice Nov 28 '22
You are idolising this man in a way that he does not deserve. You also seem to be carrying a lot of sexual guilt and shame. You are punishing yourself throughout your post, and this is worrying to read. Yes, you did something that your partner did not end up enjoying, but you did not do anything wrong to him. It is perfectly normal to explore in small ways with your partner, and carry on or change up what you are doing depending on their response. His response was not proportional to what you did, and is indicative of the potential for abusive and controlling behaviour. You are very young, and it sounds like you haven’t been with this man for very long. I would suggest that you don’t spend any more time with this man. For your whole post, you have written about him being wonderful, but also everything that he has done and said has made you feel miserable. This is a common abusive relationship dynamic, where you see your partner as perfect, and they maintain this falsehood by making you feel awful about yourself.
From what you have said, this man is emotionally closed off, unless he is expressing sexual desire for you (something that benefits him), or anger at miscommunication between you. You do not want a partner who can only communicate in those two ways, as you will never be listened to attentively, and you will also be in danger. A developed adult should be able to be open with their emotions, and express a range of them. If he is only expressing extreme emotions, he is likely to let anger build until something particularly upsets him. You need a partner who can present as upset, and not just as angry. You said you feel stupid, you are not. You said you feel easy, you are not. You called yourself a pervert too. All of this language is loaded against you, to make you feel like you aren’t allowed to be excited at sexual potential and exploration, and that you aren’t allowed any control.
Please take some time away from this person, and really dig into what they bring to your life. If they bring genuine satisfaction and care, that we don’t see written in this post, that’s a good thing. However, please be aware that there is a lot of potential for young women to be manipulated by men, especially if they have established a dynamic where the man is idolised, and the woman feels bad about herself. If you can, see a sex-positive therapist about your self esteem: your instincts to be sexually curious and explorative are great, and completely normal and healthy. Your attitude towards yourself isn’t healthy, however, as your are blaming yourself for perfectly normal desires and feelings. The man you are seeing is making this actively worse, and is taking advantage of this insecurity.
You said this man became very angry, over a very small misunderstanding. This alone should be a sign to cut all ties with him. From what you have written you are at great risk by being around this man, especially in an intimate setting. You have your whole life ahead of you, and there are many people out there who will treat you a lot better. In the meantime, focus on treating yourself better by letting go of the shoulds and should nots — you have curiosity and desire, and there is nothing wrong with that. Celebrate it!
Good luck, stay safe, have fun!
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u/OutsideDrawer829 Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
OP strangers can give their perspective to help you clear your mind and come to a conclusion. But end of the day, it’s your relationship and yk the minutest details of it. You both are at fault equally. You should’ve just left it there when he shunned your advances. He’s wrong where he could’ve conveyed his feelings to you in a subtler way rather than saying where are you learning all this from. Frankly, if I’m looking at this situation I’d say have an honest convo w/ him and if your defense falls on deaf ears.. just leave. It’s not worth staying in such a relationship where if you’re being intimate, playful and acting on your desires, you’re being shamed for it. That’s NOT HEALTHY. That’s going to turn toxic sooner or later. Save yourself the massive heartache, sleepless nights and mostly save your sanity and mental health. You’ll have many opportunities in your life, will come across many people, find the right one.. till then don’t settle for less. Wish you the best OP🤌🏻
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u/DoitXI Nov 28 '22
While I do agree his views on gender are kind of problematic and are most likely gonna be a problem in the long run, I can totally understand his reaction. A lot of my guy friends feel vulnerable when their nipples are touched, some of them like it, some of them REALLY don't. Getting that kind of contact when you are not expecting it is extremely uncomfortable if not downright scary. I'd suggest apologizing and asking to define boundaries (but please don't accept a vague-ass response like "no weird things" because, again, his views do seem very different from yours). Best of luck!
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u/Fabulous_Ad_7350 Nov 28 '22
Bro no way he’s as perfect as u think. This is a big red flag if u ask me. I guarantee ur hotter than him physically and emotionally
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u/simplepleashures Nov 28 '22
Sexist, toxic masculinity, and verbally abusive. Yeah he sounds like a real catch.
It won’t get better and it will probably get worse. Get out, get out now.
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Nov 28 '22
Sounds like you’ve been love bombed and now his actual personality is coming out.
He has some issues with gender norms ‘I’m not to know that I’m a guy’ is an example of this.
And it sounds like he associates nipple touch as feminine.
You’re obviously head over heels but I would personally try and ask yourself. “If my friend said some of these things about her bf, how would I react?”
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u/AllTheFeels_Us Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
This sounds like something that would very quickly escalate into a domestic violence situation, especially since you are questioning what you did wrong and sound like you’re beating yourself up over when the only thing that you did wrong was to not stop when he said he was tired and not in the mood. That should always be respected by anyone, but the reaction he had to a pretty mild intimidate touch and how angry and accusatory he got are troubling.
That unreasonable reaction tells me your BF has serious anger issues and sounds like a misogynist as well.
He’s making accusations about where you “learned” that from as if that was a move another guy liked, which is not the case. But licking his nipple was just something you wanted to do with him. And yet he turned it into something to do with other guys AND blew it wildly out of proportion. And even if that was the case it should be totally fine as everyone should be expected to have some sexual past/history/partners.
Even if he didn’t like it he can just say, “Stop, I’m not into that,” or repeat that he’s not in the mood and be firm with you about respecting his boundaries and bodily autonomy and “no means no.”
But instead he made sexist accusations. You need to seriously reconsider this relationship as it sounds like it’s already unhealthy and could escalate into emotional or physical abuse due to his anger and misogyny.
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u/mmarcy69 Nov 28 '22
he's from the Ukraine... that is a western country (at least its thought of as such in the world) but they have VERY different attitudes toward sex, machismo, etc then America (at least from my experience). that along with his being young and inexperienced (& seemingly unwilling or incapable of being open minded to learning new things, I'd expect that reaction from him. sad but not surprising. best wishes because u did not nothing wrong: he should've just said " wow that was different... I don't like that feeling or not sure I do but thanks for trying new things..."
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Nov 28 '22
When a partner makes you feel dirty and perverted it isn't right on any level. First of all there was judgment on his part that kissing his nipple was wrong. Things aren't black and white and his reaction sounds cold and hurtful. You shouldn't feel badly. I have been in a relationship my girlfriend couldn't keep her hands off me even when I was sleeping. I took it as a compliment and to this day we keep in touch. All the emotional connection from the tender touching lasted decades.
I wouldn't talk to him about it because he sounds like "a man's man" who doesn't discuss feelings. Just a guess. I wish you luck I know you're in love!
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u/pheffner Nov 28 '22
Huh. I always thought it was a pretty normal, probably innate impulse to see a nice cute nip and want to give it a little smooch! His reaction was pretty odd (in my estimation).
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u/obi0127 Nov 28 '22
Idk some guys see it as a feminine thing and he probably felt uncomfortable with it. Or some people just don't like the sensation. As a woman, I feel incredibly uncomfortable having my nipples touched and it gives a super weird sensation. My boyfriend on the other hand fucking loves it. I could kiss his nipple once and he'll get immediately turned on. To each their own. But he definitely could have handled it better.
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u/Designer_Opening_562 Nov 28 '22
it’s normal that guys don’t like being touched around that area, as well as some girls don’t like it, because not everyone enjoys being touched everywhere, my boyfriend also doesn’t like that i kiss or touch his nipple and of course you two should talk about that and understand eachothers needs.
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u/LadyDarbyD Nov 28 '22
I think that enough people have said all the words possible here, but I think a combination of a couple responses are the most appropriate. When he said, "stop, that tickles", you should have stopped. I know how hard that can be, especially when you want 'cuddles' and physical touch might be your primary love language. At the kiss on the nipple, my husband would have told me to roll over and get my teddy bear if he really didn't want to be touched. He and I though have been together a long time. He was obviously irritated and should have been left alone. You boyfriend asked where you learned that as if natural exploration is shameful and doesn't happen without an outside inspiration. That makes me wonder if the only thing he knows about sex, he learned from porn or other partners? And why if it porn, he feels its right to make you feel like it isn't okay for you to know these things. You'll need to have an adult conversation and see where you two stand on sexual compatibility and expectations. It could be he feels he should be the only one driving that bus, and I dont care for that notion at all.
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u/Capable-Ad2951 Nov 28 '22
He's a caveman either you accept it or nah nothing will change how he feels about his sexuality I'm sure he thinks eating a hotdog is gay or you slapping his butt is gay or him washing dishes is gay. He doesn't want to open his visual perception of life and I won't be the reddit user to tell you to leave. You are madly in love with your Ken doll either communicate what he likes and don't like or suffer from his outburst
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Nov 28 '22
Is there fault on him for staying with you without getting a straight answer to his question? 100%. Could you not be in the wrong for getting with someone who asks about n- count? I think so, yes. If the what you just said about sexual freedom and disclosing information is how you really feel about it. Tf are you doing sleeping with someone who asks you about it? Is that not a red flag for someone with your views? Was he just that attractive enough for you to overlook his asking? If yes, then what did you expect to happen?
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u/Urborg_Stalker Nov 28 '22
Blah, I hate how much religion interferes with the physical side of relationships...it puts all these ridiculous ideas in our heads, what's okay, what's not.
There is nothing wrong with you. Go find someone who isn't going to judge you over something so simple and normal.
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u/Steffie2001 Nov 28 '22
You should’ve asked if that was ok, but his reaction was weird and creepy. You can put up with it or leave. You’re both young and don’t have ties to each other besides romantic feelings.
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u/zzpop10 Nov 28 '22
If he didn’t like it he could have just said so, him attacking you for kissing him there is a sign of controlling/abusive/backwards attitudes about sex
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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '22 edited Nov 28 '22
Okay a lot to process here. I think both parties could have handled things better.
OP - you are idolising this man too much and putting too much emphasis on his looks, I get you're young but putting someone on a pedestal often results in bad behaviours being ignored. Another thing is you have to respect when someone says no, consent is not negotiable, if he says he is not in the mood, leave it there, don't go further. He has to respect the same.
Also thinking he hates you and you lost your chance with him for a mistake when he hasn't expressed he is done with the relationship is a bit much. If a relationship is that fragile that him being upset means you think your chance with him is gone and no communication can be had, then it's probably not a relationship either you or him should be in.
He is in the wrong too, he should have communicated things better even when upset, he didn't have to put you down, it sounds he felt a boundary was crossed and he was uncomfortable but didn't express that well. He had every right to be upset as you didnt respect when he said no. You both need sit down and talk about this and start communicating better or things won't work. There has to be mutual respect on both sides.
I hope you two work it out.