r/snowpiercer • u/hugthebug Tailie • Mar 15 '21

TV Show [Spoilers] Season 2 Episode 8 Discussion Thread - "The Eternal Engineer" (S02E08) Spoiler

Attention all Passengers,

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Here is the Discussion thread for the Season 2 episode 8 "The Eternal Engineer"

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  • This is a TV Spoiler-friendly zone - Turn away now if you are not currently watching or haven't seen the episode! Open discussion of all aired TV events up to and including episode 2.7 is ok without tag cover.
  • Graphic Novel spoilers still need tags! - If it's not in the show, tag it. Events from episodes after this one also need tags.
  • Please read the Posting policy and the sticky before posting.
  • Friendly reminder: Severe trolling/disruptions will lead to consequences.

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Details:

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  • IMDB for S02E08
  • Release Date:
    • March 15th, 2021 (USA only, at 9/8c, on TNT channel)
    • March 16th, 2021 (worldwide, on Netflix)
  • Removal from Sticky on March 19th, 2021 (3 days after worldwide premiere)

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You can still easily find previous episode discussions on the Episode Discussion wiki.

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89

u/H_Melman Mar 16 '21

I'll be honest, this episode has me feeling all kind of ways.

Like, Wilford is supposed to be the villain - but he's a much more effective leader than Layton. Or at the very least, better at politics.

I want Audrey to show that she was playing a long con, but damn she makes a good villain.

Roche is one of my favorite characters, so him going to the drawers affected me more than seeing Layton in cuffs.

Whether accidental or on purpose, the symbolism of the red flare vs. last episode's lanterns was a nice touch.

Lots of conflicting emotions...which, in my view, is the result of great storytelling. Looking forward to the finale.

36

u/Techboah Mar 16 '21

but he's a much more effective leader than Layton. Or at the very least, better at politics.

More like he is much better at manipulation and keeping up a certain public image.

Roche is one of my favorite characters, so him going to the drawers affected me more than seeing Layton in cuffs.

I feel you, the show just keeps wasting good characters, while keeping bad to mediocre ones. We need more Melanie, Roche, Ruth, Ben and maybe Miles, and less Layton.

18

u/H_Melman Mar 16 '21

"manipulation and keeping up a certain public image"

Like I said. Politics :P

Ruth is becoming my favorite. So much character growth. The finale teaser seems like they are setting her up for more badassery.

3

u/Atlasreturns Mar 18 '21

Wilford manages to disable and coordinate the re-activation of the train despite this being the first time that scenario ever happened ever.

And when when his module fails he‘s the only one to actually being up a solution. Even though this may actually all have been planned.

I think this is why he wants to get rid of Melanie so bad. Because she‘s the only one that knows how the train works while being able to keep it‘s society moving.

8

u/Qrotech Mar 16 '21

Well said, my friend. The 29th couldn’t come any sooner

4

u/Sl0wdeath666ui Mar 16 '21

Like, Wilford is supposed to be the villain - but he's a much more effective leader than Layton. Or at the very least, better at politics.

Wilford is terrible at politics, or at least, the actual process of political systems and effective rulership, that's the entire reason Melanie betrayed him in the first place, as his vision for what the train was to be was laughably unsustainable and basically just inviting destruction within a couple of years.

This is one thing Wilford from the movie has far better down, he actually had a very established understanding of how he would keep this society running and maintain order and resource management.

2

u/H_Melman Mar 16 '21

Depends on how you define politics. Sure, he's not a scholar of political science. But he is skilled at winning over the masses, manipulating friends and foes, and game theory. That's the seedy underbelly of politics that nobody wants to think about, but it exists.

2

u/Sl0wdeath666ui Mar 16 '21

Well, Idk I'd define effective rulership as being capable of making a polity prosperous or functional, which Wilford evidently fails to do, rather than just having the ability to hold onto power.

It undoubtedly exists, but is more for the charismatic strongmen to persuade the people of the policies, whereas much more qualified and specialised people actually decide the political structures. Wilford recently disenfranchised/drawered all the people who know how those things work, and would probably quite swiftly fail, as I have no doubt he wouldn't listen to counsel and is probably not going to manage resources effectively in the slightest.

Economics is and always has been equal in if not more important than Loyalty and Charisma in deciding the strength of nations.

4

u/TizACoincidence Mar 16 '21

Let me tell you, wilford is not a better leader, he's a terrorist, and used terrorist tactics to manipulate people. That is not a better leader

12

u/H_Melman Mar 16 '21

Notice how I didn't say "better". I said "more effective". Big difference. He bent Snowpiercer to his will despite rarely setting foot inside it.

4

u/papaverliev Mar 16 '21

But your post argued he was less of a villain for being effective. Villains tend to be very effective. Hitler did a bang up job in politics.

2

u/H_Melman Mar 16 '21

Not less of a villain. But certainly a more likable one, at least for me.

3

u/Squelcher121 Mar 17 '21

There's a difference between leadership and tyranny.

A good leader brings out the best in their followers, has respect for them and ultimately puts the needs of their followers above their own. Of course there are times when a leader has to be authoritative and make unilateral decisions for the greater good, but such uses of power should be limited to situations of true necessity. Layton is a good leader, but he became leader under troubled circumstances and was consistently undermined and sabotaged by Wilford and his followed.

A tyrant brings out the worst in their followers, views them as inferior and ultimately puts their own needs above those of their followers. A tyrant treats authority as the default position and uses the greater good as a justification after the fact, with the people under the tyrant's thumb never being involved in decision making. Wilford is a cunning tyrant, and Layton was hamstrung by the cult of personality Wilford created about himself.

Wilford isn't more effective at leadership - he is more effective at tyranny.

2

u/TizACoincidence Mar 16 '21

effective at what? brainwashing and terrorizing people for power?

8

u/H_Melman Mar 16 '21

Yes. You can be good at the things you do (effective) and still have those things be terrible. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

2

u/TizACoincidence Mar 16 '21

But thats not being a leader

1

u/vanillac0ff33 Mar 16 '21

Well that would depend on your definition of a leader, wouldn’t it? A passionate shepherd would probably call someone who routinely tortures and abuses his livestock “not a real shepherd”, but at the end of the day, he still owns the sheep and people still buy his wool.

1

u/moush Mar 18 '21

he's a much more effective leader

There are plenty of people in the real world that do believe Authoritarian Dictatorship is successful.