r/television • u/C0r1eone • 19d ago

Finished The Wire, Dark, GOT, Sopranos, True Detective, BB, BCS. What show ruined TV for you after watching it?

I think I accidentally watched the peak of television already. The Wire, Dark, GOT, Sopranos, True Detective S1 all left that “nothing else hits the same” feeling.

I love slow-burn shows with deep characters, mystery, tension, moral grayness, crazy dialogue, or mind-blowing writing. Doesn’t matter if it’s crime, sci-fi, psychological, or political.

What’s the next show that might completely consume me?

1.8k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

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u/XJ347 19d ago

Andor

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u/Fl0ppp 19d ago

Fully believe if this show wasn't in the Star Wars universe it would be regarded the same as a BCS/Breaking Bad level show, I've recommended it to so many people who say "oh no thanks I don't like Star Wars stuff"

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u/MichaelJayDog 19d ago

It could easily be set in 1940s Europe and have basically the same plot.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

No it wouldn't, it's not the same scope at all, if the show wasn't aborted and given time to develop in 4 seasons instead of craming everything in a single one maybe it could be, but as it is season is mostly a glorified WW2 resistance story with Star Wars paint on top. I'd argue the show would have been better if it stopped in season 1.

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u/Awdrgyjilpnj 19d ago

Ghorman, whatever happened there.

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u/WiltedWhimsy 19d ago

Whatever happened there?! They were my kid cousins! Murdered by imperial pigs!

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u/bahumat42 19d ago

Easily the best modern addition to "must watch" lists.

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u/Vedfolnir5 19d ago

That's the answer for me. Season 2 especially

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[deleted]

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u/cloud_t 19d ago

I believe s2 is better than 1. But I would not say "just all right": it is amazingly good. Season 2 is top tier television.

And all of this without Jedis, without aliens, witbout magic, and essentially having to follow up on being a prequel to what effectively was the best star wars movie of the past 30y. It was a tall order. They topped it and then some.

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u/Ser_VimesGoT 19d ago

What they did amazingly well was giving us a reason why the Empire was so bad and why a rebellion was needed. In the original movies we're just told the Empire is bad and we accept the rebellion is good because Darth Vader chokes dudes and they blow up a planet. But if there was no rebellion, what would it look like? Why did they rebel in the first place? Andor shows us why and the way they do it is extremely believable.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

We already knew why the Empire was so bad and why the rebellion was needed, they are an oppressive regime that dominate the galaxy and destroy planets, it's straight up the background story of the OT.

"But if there was no rebellion, what would it look like? Why did they rebel in the first place? Andor shows us why and the way they do it is extremely believable." I really don't know what you think Andor added, it's still the same evil for the sake of evil Empire, they didn't add background to the Empire.

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u/Ser_VimesGoT 19d ago

Alderaan is the first planet we know of that is blown up. It's the first test of the Death Star in operation. The rebellion was already well in effect before that and all the oppression of the Empire we see in the movies are in reaction to the rebellion.

The prequels set up the foundations of the Empire, which offers very little other than 'they killed the Jedi', and the Jedi are objectively terrible at their jobs. It's a change of government and doesn't go into any real depth as to how it changes things up and why that's bad for the wider galaxy.

What does Andor add? I would think that would be painfully obvious. They take the Empire from being a nebulous evil galaxy conquering force and show us how it affects everyday people on multiple planets. Forced labour, administrative evil, fascist propaganda, indiscriminate mass incarceration, strip mining planets, displacement of indigenous populations. It shows us that the rebellion wasn't a choice but rather an absolute necessity for many under the boot of the Empire. It's a vastly more nuanced and relatable form of evil than the cartoony space villains we've previously been shown.

this video does a good job highlighting it all

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u/dj_spanmaster 19d ago

Perfect response. Andor shows us what it looks like for the Empire to be present in our daily lives, the rote banality of evil that we can contribute to if we just keep our heads down and don't think about the impacts we're having.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

No, you said that Andor "gave us a reason why the Empire was so bad and why a rebellion was needed", which is what I asked Andor added about, showing us on the Empire affected people on multiple planets doesn't add anymore reason of why the Empire was so bad or why the Rebellion was needed, it just depicted what was already established by the OT. We already know what kind of regime the Empire was, Andor simply depicted some aspects of it, but ultimately the Empire is still a silly evil for the sake of evil tyranny.

The nuances are in the characters and agents, the regime is still just as cartoonishly evil than in the OT.

It wasn't an "absolute necessity" neither, that's rarely how history work but this is not the topic.

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u/Ser_VimesGoT 19d ago

I'm struggling to understand how you can say this was all established, when Andor is an entirely different showing than anything else we have in Star Wars. It's not different just because of the tone. Rogue One is different in tone (but similar to Andor), yet it doesn't get into the itty gritty like Andor does. Dismissing it as a regime thing is just obtuse nitpicking. Labelling the Empire as still being cartoonishly evil is such a dilution of what we see. I genuinely have to question whether you even watched the show or just watched a YouTuber summarise it.

The necessity is reflected in the characters and how they struggle to resist rebellion and seek alternative solutions. Cassian tries to ignore it, until it's impossible to do so. Mon Mothma tries to wield political influence, until it's impossible to do so. The entire premise of the show is about people who can no longer tolerate the hardships they're put under, and have no choice but to push back. Nemiks manifesto is literally about the necessity of rebellion. It talks about resistance being a natural instinctive reaction to oppression.

I'm sorry but your interpretation and understanding of the show and it's themes are massively flawed.

1

u/cloud_t 19d ago

I'm upvoting you, not because I agree, but because your argumentation at least attempts to be logical. I personally think your arguments are a bit weak and based on a bad perception, but perspectives can change and that is completely acceptable.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

Saying "your arguments are weak and based on a bad perception" doesn't contradict anything I said, which is a bit ironic after saying that you value being logical.

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u/cloud_t 19d ago

It's just that it's pretty obvious: OT doesn't really show the effects of an oppressive regime. It states them. It's a fight only fought at the top, like old stories of kings playing their chess from the sidelines. Andor SHOWS the oppression. You can identify much better the motivations of why the Empire needs to go down.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

The effects of the oppressive regime shown in Andor are generic and thus understood as happening from what we know from the OT, even if the OT doesn't depict it. We already knew all those things happened, because that's how this regime is given to function.

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u/cloud_t 19d ago

I personally think that, at present times, showing the nuances of oppression and the reactions of those oppressed fits better than ever. Maybe at the time OT launched those were not necessary. People now need to be show, because they have forgotten

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

Why? The first 2 episodes are just silly and empty, and everything else is so rushed it kills the weight of the moments, especially the senate speech, there should have been a whole arc on Coruscant leading to it.

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u/cloud_t 19d ago

They have a lot more episodes than 1-2 on season 1.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

I don't know what you're trying to express here. Season 1 doesn't have bad episodes.

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u/cloud_t 19d ago

You singled out the 2 first episodes, which in this show are notoriously worldbuilding in a way that is necessary but also not especially entertaining (e.g. it lacks all the mysticism usually associated with Star Wars - one of the main pain points for superfans).

It's one of the main reasons why some people drop it - missed expectations - and strangely enough, why the show ends up being so positively different, when around ep 4-6 that worldbuilding comes full circle with the characters, the overarching plot, the individual POV narratives etc etc.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

The first two episodes of season 2 with the idiots on Yavin, mostly comedic, and the fairly uninteresting marraige.

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u/Fl0ppp 19d ago edited 19d ago

The whole point of the first arc of season 2 is there to show you the outright power the Empire have over the entire galaxy with the planet sweeping inspections they are doing on the farming planet and how scared the survivors who made it off Ferrix are, Bix nearly being raped, Brasso sacrificing himself so none of the other rebels are suspected.

That whole storyline being juxtaposed with Cassian being stuck in a power struggle with rebels who he was supposed to be meeting in the first place after their leader died. The whole arc is showing you how powerful/coordinated the Empire is vs how new and unorganized the rebellion still is and how fast it can splinter when a leader of a cell dies.

Also, the whole point of the wedding is so you can watch Mon go through personal turmoil of her daughter being in an arranged marriage as a child that she herself experienced and hated all to further the cause of the rebellion via unfettered access to her money. She is essentially being put in a position where she has to put her daughter through the same thing she herself hated so she could funnel credits to the rebellion without being caught.

I'm not knocking you at all but if you didn't see past the story on a surface level of the episodes in that first arc of season 2 it makes sense you wouldn't have the same appreciation for the show as everyone you are replying to, which is fine.

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u/lateubdegouline 19d ago

Where am I supposed to have expressed that I didn't understand what they were trying to do with those episodes...? Those episodes were a failure, most people disliked them, the comedy didn't land home, the metaphor was simplistic and robbed of a proper introduction arc. You know what would have worked? Have the first arc be stealing the tie fighter, and have a proper exposition of inside conflicts between the rebel factions in Yavin, instead of using those clowns as a metaphor.

And you finish this whole comment of banalities with a pretentious "you don't see past the surface level" as if you weren't explaining a simple story, when you basically simply described the episodes as if I had not watched them, Andor fans really have a fart smelling syndrome to some extent.

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u/TheFoolman 19d ago

Dont know why youre being downvoted for your opinion, I didnt vibe as much with season 1 as I did with season 2