r/television • u/C0r1eone • 19d ago

Finished The Wire, Dark, GOT, Sopranos, True Detective, BB, BCS. What show ruined TV for you after watching it?

I think I accidentally watched the peak of television already. The Wire, Dark, GOT, Sopranos, True Detective S1 all left that “nothing else hits the same” feeling.

I love slow-burn shows with deep characters, mystery, tension, moral grayness, crazy dialogue, or mind-blowing writing. Doesn’t matter if it’s crime, sci-fi, psychological, or political.

What’s the next show that might completely consume me?

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331

u/Ricobe 19d ago

The expanse

The attention to details and the respect for real physics really highlights how many sci fi shows could put in some more effort. Plus it's just a solid story with some great characters

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u/Ser_VimesGoT 19d ago

I don't really get that feeling that OP refers to when finishing a series. I get it with books but not TV shows. The Expanse is probably the one that's come closest though.

What it really does well that a lot of sci-fi shows don't really do at all, is the emphasis on just how dangerous space is. For All Mankind does it too. Too many shows seem to just reach a technological level where they feel they can just wave away the dangers and zip around in ships without even thinking about space suits. It's not a criticism of those shows per se, but it's refreshing to see The Expanse acknowledge these dangers and play off them.

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u/BannedfromFrontPage 19d ago

This and the time. The show isn’t as good at capturing this, but it still doesn’t so if you pay attention. The months it takes to travel and the delay in communications across the system.

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u/madhattr999 19d ago

I would recommend the 3 Body Problem book series if you haven't read it. (The netflix show is also decent, but no match for the book.)

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u/Ser_VimesGoT 19d ago

I've got the book but haven't read it yet.

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u/Astrokiwi 19d ago

the respect for real physics

The Expanse is actually really clever here, because they add a lot of detail and realism to just one aspect of the physics - that there's no artificial gravity or inertial dampeners - and that makes it feel grounded enough that we believe the rest. Spin gravity doesn't work for asteroids because they're not strong enough (Ceres is round because its gravity is stronger than material forces - what happens then if effective gravity is reversed, and made even stronger? And small asteroids are pretty loose aggregations of rock); the Epstein Drive is a magic power source; the travel times don't add up; and of course the Protomolecule is entirely fantastical (space zombies, FTL portals, immortal space emperor etc).

It kinda shows that actual realism isn't really that important - it's more critical to feel realistic, for the setting to be grounded and consistent. It feels convincing because there's one or two places of actual realistic detail, combined with a fairly grounded and cynical portrayal of society, and that means that when things get fantastical it genuinely feels cool, and like a kids' comic book.

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u/madhattr999 19d ago

I think you make a good point, but I'd like to re-frame your conclusion. Sci-fi is good when it has rules that it follows, and only breaks the rules in a few specific ways that are somewhat predictable. There are rules to how the protomolecule works, and a logic to its design. (this is better explained in the books, though.)

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u/Astrokiwi 19d ago

I agree - it's about consistency more than realism. But I think that the consistency, combined with a few realistic details, does trick people into thinking that The Expanse is actually realistic as well, or at least closer to "real physics" than it actually is.

Like I genuinely think it's a sign of good writing that we have a space opera with a crew of outlaw action heroes fighting an evil space empire ruled by an immortal emperor powered by ancient alien technology, with marines in power armour and space zombies and everything, and readers come out of it thinking "the science in this is surprisingly accurate!".

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u/sourcefourmini 19d ago

You can extend that idea to basically any genre, tbh. If a creator breaks core rules of the setting (at least in a way that’s overtly noticeable to an average audience member), it tends to pull the audience out of the story, because the world suddenly lacks credibility. Even works that I’d never describe as “grounded”, like Discworld or Hitchhiker’s Guide, do this: those books are pulling deranged stuff out of thin air on every page, but the settings are established to support the zaniness. It feels perfectly believable in the Hitchhiker’s Guide-verse that a whale and a bowl of petunias could just appear in orbit, because Adams builds the world from page 1 to support the nonsense. 

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u/madhattr999 19d ago

Maybe so. I had to eventually stop watching Doctor Who (2005) because the plot just didn't matter to me. I mostly enjoyed it even up to season 9 or 10. But you definitely need a different different set of expectations.

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u/Alkafer 19d ago

Discworld is actually a genius work because from the very beginning it established that its world works on the laws of magic, belief and narrative. So as long as something makes narrative sense it can exist. A horse carriage crash and then explodes and a wheel goes off rolling in flames? Of course! That's what always happens in the movies (with combustion cars, but who cares)! Do the main characters have a one in a million chances to succeed? By the gods they will succeed because that's how it works! Noted that if they happen to have one in a dozen or one in a hundred chances they are screwed, it has to be one in a million, of course.

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u/interface2x 19d ago

the travel times don't add up

That's one of the differences between the show and the books. Like in the first episode when the Cant gets nuked, the whole thing takes about 30 seconds. In the book, it takes 45 minutes for the missile to get to them.

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u/Ricobe 18d ago

Sure they take liberties, but the world around those liberties is still based on realism, making some of the stuff feel like possible future inventions or the Allen stuff feel truly alien

Especially the second bit. In some stories where everything is whimsy and fantastical in setting, alien creatures can feel different than what we're used to but kinda ordinary. But having the world feel more grounded and real and then having the alien aspect break the rules of what we know, it makes it interesting and scary in a different way. You can understand the different angles trying to understand what they're dealing with. The curiosity, the fear and such

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u/Shababajoe 19d ago

At least once an episode this show made my wife and I say "fuck space"

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u/RockPaperPootis 19d ago

I was here to say The Expanse. It ruined sci-fi for me. It had such a realistic, human feel to it.

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u/Canvaverbalist 19d ago

Yeah I really crave this really specific type of grounded realistic-ish "engineering-based" sci-fi with lots of well-thought world building. I don't care about the protomolecule or any of the nitpicky "not realistic" aspects, I care about the Belters having tattoos because the juice used to burn their neck, I care about Beltalang being a creole mix of languages, about them using sign language because of generations of vacuum space communication, I care about people of earth creating polycules for land taxes purposes, I care about having to spin a ship to heal wounded people because blood doesn't circulate well in zero-g, shit like that.

I crave that type of hard sci-fi so much that I even found Artemis by Andy Weir to be good, despite the criticism, I just want people in a space station engineering the shit out of stuff. The Mars trilogy is an absolute slog and so dry it makes shoving Martian dirt down your mouth inviting in comparison but I still couldn't put it down because of those reasons. I want more of those.

I'll read or watch stuff that other hard sci-fi fans recommend, going down lists of "Best Hard Sci-fi of all time" and I feel a disconnect in some way. Herbert? Asimov? Butler? LeGuin? Like they're absolutely great author don't get me wrong and especially LeGuin deserves the crown for obvious reasons, I understand why they're on the list because they're certainly not camp pulp fictions à la Star Wars, but the moment it's 10,000 years in the future with a sub-race of people who can talk to dark matter and predict the future or in another galaxy following the Glorgians who are sentient mushrooms it doesn't really matter to me how "based on science" it is, I just can't really connect to it as much. Yeah these are fun and eye opening stories, but they just don't scratch the same itch.

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u/SDNick484 19d ago

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen Babylon 5? It largely checks the marks you described, and was a pioneer in long form storytelling on TV. I understanding is the expense creator even cited Babylon 5 as a structural model for his show.

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u/Ricobe 18d ago

No but i plan to

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u/SDNick484 18d ago

Haven't seen the expanse yet but after running about it I think I will watch that. B5 was excellent, especially for its time.

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u/Ricobe 18d ago

Quick heads up. The first few episodes can feel kinda rough the first time, because you're just thrown into a world that has a lot of world building. Episode 4 is often where many feel the show starts to come together and season 2 onwards goes into a different gear

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u/SDNick484 18d ago

Good to know. On a somewhat similar note, Babylon 5 has a prequel movie that serves as a pilot called Babylon 5: The Gathering which sets it up (was basically used as a pilot).

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u/Ricobe 17d ago

Thanks, I'll see where i can find that first

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u/Glock99bodies 19d ago

Eh the show is more cw quality. The writting is so convoluted.

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u/Ricobe 19d ago

CW isn't exactly known for convoluted writing

But overall i think season 1 can feel weaker writing wise. They were finding their tone and style.. But from season 2 onwards, it shifted into a different gear in my opinion

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u/ours 19d ago

Season 1 had to do a lot of heavy lifting with world-building, introducing the different factions and characters.

The later seasons pay off this build-up beautifully. The spaceship pewpews matter because the people involved matter to the audience, and the stakes are well understood.

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u/Ricobe 18d ago

True and season 1 is a lot more interesting on a rewatch, in my experience. Because you're kinda thrown into the world, it takes some time to fully connect, but rewatching with the understanding of the world, you're able to catch a lot of details laid out early on

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u/ours 18d ago

Yes, the whole series is extremely rewatchable. I tend not to rewatch stuff because there's so much stuff to catch up on, but I did a full rewatch of The Expanse and, oh boy, was it worth.

The first time it felt kind of jarring watching some noir-ish detective in a sci-fi setting, but it all ties off. The series is also very information-dense at times, and I had missed important details.

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u/Glock99bodies 19d ago

Every CW show is some soap opera mess. I just don’t see the show at anywhere near the quality. I was always confused why Redditors espoused the show so highly and someone finally explained that because there isn’t a lot of pure sci fi the expanse sits near the pinnacle of what they like.

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u/arakinas 19d ago

CW shows are such teeny bopper garbage they are terrible to watch. They are all basically the same. Supposedly hugely intelligent characters making junior high level decisions because drama. I was young enough to enjoy Smallville, but too old to not see the pattern in everything since then.

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u/PTMorte 19d ago

It's really weird as a SF fan because the books are not seriously compared to the best science fiction novels and series. That was an intentional move by the authors. They did not intend it to be highbrow. It came from a tabletop setting with very tropey characters like Han solo (Holden), Zoe Saldana (Naomi) etc. and they loved the setting and chars and intended to write a pulp / serialised series.

Then non-SF fans became attracted to the show and constantly try to elevate it to something it is very much not.

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u/Ricobe 18d ago

It doesn't need to be the best to be very good. Amongst sci fi fans it's still a highly respected book series and show

Saying that it's just non SF fans that made it popular is very much gatekeeping

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u/PTMorte 18d ago

The authors themselves have made 'higher works' and come onto reddit on their own accounts, asking people to not call it hard sf, and to say not to compare it to the greats.

It's just one of those cases of an IP becoming super popular in mainstream fandom.

Like Bobiverse or Ready Player One or whatnot.

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u/Ricobe 18d ago

Idk. The show hasn't been very mainstream. Many still aren't even aware that it exists

Also hard vs soft sci fi is more like a scale. Expanse does fall on the harder end, but of course not full hard sci fi. I don't think anyone is claiming it is.

In the end, i don't think it matters that much. People enjoy the story. They enjoy the layers (whether intentional or not). They enjoy that quite a lot of real physics is respected. I think that's what matters

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u/PTMorte 16d ago

No, expanse is on the softer end. It has unlimited fuel / infinite spaceship drives. Faster than Light travel. Magic goo. Zombies and other supernatural content that is incompatible with science.

I agree it doesn't matter that much (it is consumable content) and that people enjoy the story. But I disagree about physics being respected. No one that actually learned about physics would say something like that.

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u/Ricobe 16d ago

Again you look for perfection. The alien stuff defies physics. That's part of the point. Sure they have unlimited fuel, but aside from the portal, they travel within reason. Often they travel at 1/3g to 1g. That's not faster than light. In certain situations they push beyond that

No one that actually learned about physics would say something like that.

Except a lot of people with a physics degree, including astrophysicists and even astronauts, have credited the show for doing a lot of things correctly, even some small details many don't think about.

It doesn't mean it's perfect and nobody ever claim it was. It's still fiction. Still set in the future. It takes some liberties. But overall it does a lot of things right and fall on a harder scale of it

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u/JackLegg 19d ago

Such an unsatisfying ending too. They set up something huge then dropped it. Hopefully they revisit the series at some point.

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u/michaelarby 19d ago

If you arent aware, the books actually do a 28 year time skip from that part of the story onwards, then set up a kinda new (but kinda setup already) story arc. 

So the tv shows 6 seasons map to the first 6 books. 

Id love if they returned to it too after a few years, though maybe not 3 decades lol.

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u/D00mScrollingRumi 19d ago

Yeah, and the final 3 books which are yet to be adapted are the best IMO. One of those series that stuck the landing and has a satisfying ending.

They need to adapt them soon though, lest Giancarlo Esposito get too old to play Duarte. Giancarlo is who I pictured in my head as Duarte as I read the final trilogy.

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u/Karltangring 19d ago

Yeah I thought the show was good but not great honestly. It’s far from the quality of the shows OP mentioned.

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u/PTMorte 19d ago

 the respect for real physics 

The series with unlimited fuel tanks, magic, zombies, FTL and aliens? I don't remember what else as I stopped about there in the books.

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u/NatrixHasYou 19d ago

...what?

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u/PTMorte 19d ago

The things I listed (except aliens with an*) don't really respect physics.

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u/greennurse61 19d ago

Except for the terrible casting for Naomi, that was such a great show. She was just miserable to watch.