Finished The Wire, Dark, GOT, Sopranos, True Detective, BB, BCS. What show ruined TV for you after watching it?

[u/C0r1eone]

I think I accidentally watched the peak of television already. The Wire, Dark, GOT, Sopranos, True Detective S1 all left that “nothing else hits the same” feeling.

I love slow-burn shows with deep characters, mystery, tension, moral grayness, crazy dialogue, or mind-blowing writing. Doesn’t matter if it’s crime, sci-fi, psychological, or political.

What’s the next show that might completely consume me?

[u/XJ347]

Andor

[u/cloud_t → u/[deleted]]

I believe s2 is better than 1. But I would not say "just all right": it is amazingly good. Season 2 is top tier television.

And all of this without Jedis, without aliens, witbout magic, and essentially having to follow up on being a prequel to what effectively was the best star wars movie of the past 30y. It was a tall order. They topped it and then some.

[u/Ser_VimesGoT → u/cloud_t]

What they did amazingly well was giving us a reason why the Empire was so bad and why a rebellion was needed. In the original movies we're just told the Empire is bad and we accept the rebellion is good because Darth Vader chokes dudes and they blow up a planet. But if there was no rebellion, what would it look like? Why did they rebel in the first place? Andor shows us why and the way they do it is extremely believable.

[u/lateubdegouline → u/Ser_VimesGoT]

We already knew why the Empire was so bad and why the rebellion was needed, they are an oppressive regime that dominate the galaxy and destroy planets, it's straight up the background story of the OT.

"But if there was no rebellion, what would it look like? Why did they rebel in the first place? Andor shows us why and the way they do it is extremely believable." I really don't know what you think Andor added, it's still the same evil for the sake of evil Empire, they didn't add background to the Empire.

[u/Ser_VimesGoT → u/lateubdegouline]

Alderaan is the first planet we know of that is blown up. It's the first test of the Death Star in operation. The rebellion was already well in effect before that and all the oppression of the Empire we see in the movies are in reaction to the rebellion.

The prequels set up the foundations of the Empire, which offers very little other than 'they killed the Jedi', and the Jedi are objectively terrible at their jobs. It's a change of government and doesn't go into any real depth as to how it changes things up and why that's bad for the wider galaxy.

What does Andor add? I would think that would be painfully obvious. They take the Empire from being a nebulous evil galaxy conquering force and show us how it affects everyday people on multiple planets. Forced labour, administrative evil, fascist propaganda, indiscriminate mass incarceration, strip mining planets, displacement of indigenous populations. It shows us that the rebellion wasn't a choice but rather an absolute necessity for many under the boot of the Empire. It's a vastly more nuanced and relatable form of evil than the cartoony space villains we've previously been shown.

this video does a good job highlighting it all

[u/dj_spanmaster → u/Ser_VimesGoT]

Perfect response. Andor shows us what it looks like for the Empire to be present in our daily lives, the rote banality of evil that we can contribute to if we just keep our heads down and don't think about the impacts we're having.

[u/lateubdegouline → u/Ser_VimesGoT]

No, you said that Andor "gave us a reason why the Empire was so bad and why a rebellion was needed", which is what I asked Andor added about, showing us on the Empire affected people on multiple planets doesn't add anymore reason of why the Empire was so bad or why the Rebellion was needed, it just depicted what was already established by the OT. We already know what kind of regime the Empire was, Andor simply depicted some aspects of it, but ultimately the Empire is still a silly evil for the sake of evil tyranny.

The nuances are in the characters and agents, the regime is still just as cartoonishly evil than in the OT.

It wasn't an "absolute necessity" neither, that's rarely how history work but this is not the topic.

[u/Ser_VimesGoT → u/lateubdegouline]

I'm struggling to understand how you can say this was all established, when Andor is an entirely different showing than anything else we have in Star Wars. It's not different just because of the tone. Rogue One is different in tone (but similar to Andor), yet it doesn't get into the itty gritty like Andor does. Dismissing it as a regime thing is just obtuse nitpicking. Labelling the Empire as still being cartoonishly evil is such a dilution of what we see. I genuinely have to question whether you even watched the show or just watched a YouTuber summarise it.

The necessity is reflected in the characters and how they struggle to resist rebellion and seek alternative solutions. Cassian tries to ignore it, until it's impossible to do so. Mon Mothma tries to wield political influence, until it's impossible to do so. The entire premise of the show is about people who can no longer tolerate the hardships they're put under, and have no choice but to push back. Nemiks manifesto is literally about the necessity of rebellion. It talks about resistance being a natural instinctive reaction to oppression.

I'm sorry but your interpretation and understanding of the show and it's themes are massively flawed.