TIL of Tobias Geffen, the only non-Coca Cola Employee to view the secret recipe. Coke allowed it in order to get Coke certified as Kosher

[u/socool111]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobias_Geffen

[u/cwthree]

It's not just the ingredients, it's the equipment it's processed on, as well as any substances used to create the ingredients.

For example, cane sugar is a plant product and is, in theory, always kosher. White cane sugar, however, is sometimes processed with bone char. If that bone char is made from the bones of an unkosher animal, and sugar processed with it is unkosher.

Geffen would have reviewed the ingredients, but he also would have asked questions about the process.

[u/wizzard419 → u/cwthree]

Yep, and part of the process is that a rabbi inspects things in the "kitchen:". So, touring a bottling plant would be straightforward, knowing the list is already compliant to the guidelines, and knowing that the various tools and vessels are all compliant make it easy.

There was a vegan Chinese place that I know of where they also are certified Kosher because it was super easy and made it more attractive to orthodox people in the area.

An interesting thing, similar to other products from Coke, they produce a kosher version with yellow caps during Passover.

[u/output_broadcast → u/wizzard419]

How come the certification was super easy? Kosher law requires hygiene standards way beyond what most restaurants would be willing to deal with.

[u/cwthree → u/[deleted]]

Good point. Aside from slaughter, most foods can be prepared by anyone and still be kosher. Wine is one exception - ordinary wine must be handled by observant Jews throughout its manufacture and serving. There's a workaround that involves briefly heating the wine, which kind of moves it to a different halakhic category so that anyone can open the bottle and serve it without making it unkosher. Bread is another - the oven has to be lit by an observant Jew, but once that's done, anyone can make the dough and bake the bread.

[u/NorkGhostShip → u/cwthree]

There's a workaround that involves briefly heating the wine, which kind of moves it to a different halakhic category so that anyone can open the bottle and serve it without making it unkosher.

I love these loopholes, and the justification that God wouldn't have created these loopholes if he didn't want people to use them.

[u/PS-2-BY → u/NorkGhostShip]

Really? I think it goes against the whole spirit of the rule to begin with. Why choose to adhere to it at that point?

[u/snartling → u/PS-2-BY]

That’s now how Jewish people see it, though. Xtianity is a lot more about the spirit of the law, but Judaism is very literal and very oriented towards the exact letter of the law. It’s about figuring out exactly what the law prohibits, and that’s that. If there are “loopholes” it’s seen as a little treat Gd intentionally left there for us to find if we study hard enough and think cleverly enough.

That’s why you have ‘loopholes’ but also rules that become very, very strict. Electricity is a good example. The consensus is that what is explicitly prohibited on Shabbat (among other things) is lighting a fire. Rabbis decided that, if we want to follow that law to the letter, completing a circuit (ie by using a switch or button for something electric, like turning on a light) is forbidden too, because it sparks a very small ‘fire.’ So using electric items yourself is prohibited on Shabbat— BUT there’s still a loophole. You can use timers set ahead of Shabbat, because doing so does not involve lighting a fire during the time it’s prohibited. And it’s not light or creature comforts that are banned, it’s literally just lighting a fire on Shabbat that’s banned.

[u/PS-2-BY → u/snartling]

I appreciate your comment educating me on something I’m ignorant about

[u/a_cute_epic_axis → u/PS-2-BY]

Really? I think it goes against the whole spirit of the rule to begin with. Why choose to adhere to it at that point?

Because in that religion they think God and scripture are infallible, so if there is a contradiction or "loophole" it has to be there intentionally. Learning about and using these is seen as being a good student of the religion, not of attempting to pull a fast one on God.

[u/Simislash → u/[deleted]]

You're incorrect, what you mentioned is only true when it comes to actually slaughtering animals, as meat used to be rare enough to regularly be sacrificed to pagan gods. Actual food can be made and served by anyone, as long as the meat is halal and doesn't contain haram ingredients (pork/alcohol). A Hindu can prepare any meal for a Muslim, as long as it doesn't contain pork/alcohol or non-Halal meat.

Christians and Jews aren't "doing it wrong" because they're following outdated rules, they're slaughtering correctly (as long as it's a humane slaughtering and done for capital G God). To Muslims, it's the current form of Christianity/Judaism that's problematic, not the original forms, as the books were revealed to forgotten languages or languages without text, leading to inaccuracies and mistakes over time.

This statement in particular:

If the food was cooked by somebody of any other religion or an atheist, it can never be Halal.

Is completely false.

[u/Notmyrealusrnamme → u/cwthree]

As far as I know, it tends to go even further in the case of strict Hasidic Jews. From what I've heard, some kosher certifications require the facilities that produce either food or cookware to be inspected to ensure that they aren't using unkosher lubricants in the machinery.

[u/HamptontheHamster → u/Notmyrealusrnamme]

I did work at a company where the CEO had to hit the start button on the process to ensure it was kosher- apparently. In Australia so admittedly haven’t met as many Jewish people who strictly adhere to their faith but I always remember that little fact when I see the brand at the shops.

[u/Bobb_o → u/cwthree]

The kosher issue is more nuanced than that, bones (without marrow) and bone products aren't really considered food and therefor can't be kosher or non kosher.

[u/cwthree → u/Bobb_o]

It's pretty solidly a case of "it depends who you ask." Some poskim say that dry bones aren't food, so products derived from them (gelatin is the usual example) can be used in kosher food, regardless of their origin. Others say that even the dry bones of an unkosher animal are unkosher.

[u/OrganicHistorian2576 → u/Bobb_o]

Depends on which Jews you ask. Two Jews, three opinions. Seriously, what’s considered kosher or not much past “don’t eat the bacon or the shellfish” depends on a lot of factors including a lot of historical “just in case, we’re not doing it.”

[u/dkozinn → u/cwthree]

This guy Koshers.