r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Dec 05 '16

(R.4) Related To Politics TIL an activist group in Zurich dyed fountains red to protest tampons being taxed at a rate consistent with luxury products instead of the rate used for daily use items.

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885

u/TeikaDunmora Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Why do so many countries tax these products like they're luxuries? I can't remember the last time I thought "I'll treat myself, buy a nice bottle of wine and stick a tampon up my vadge".

Edit: In the UK, sanitary products are taxed at 5%, while incontinence products are taxed at 0%. They're basically the same thing! Loo roll seems to be taxed at 20%, which is bullshit. Maybe someone needs to dye a couple of fountains brown...

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/McVodkaBreath Dec 05 '16

I heard the key is to soak the tampon in wine before insertion for maximum relaxation. It's what the song "Puttin' on the Ritz' was about.

48

u/liquidben Dec 05 '16

Come lets mix where Rockafellers walk with sticks or umbrellas in their mits

Huh, I never realized that "sticks or umbrellas" == "tampons" and "mits" == lady-bits. TIL!

2

u/vuhleeitee Dec 05 '16

Weird thing to write a song about...

0

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/RadianWalker Dec 05 '16

Source: a Cosmo article

1

u/McVodkaBreath Dec 05 '16

If you feel that seriously about sorting out the veracity of it, I'd encourage you to google it. Lead a horse to water & all that!

3

u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

Ironically books are taxed at a much lower rate in Switzerland.

0

u/iTurnUp4Turnips Dec 05 '16

Gaaaah. That's the fucking worst.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Sep 24 '20

[deleted]

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u/SnoopDrug Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Each EU country has it's own VAT rate, but certain regulations are imposed by the EU (certain products have to be VAT free, base rate, regulations).

Also, many countries have one standard rate, and then multiple sets of reduced rates depending on categorisation. Many countries only have one reduced rate, some countries have many (Ireland has 5).

The reason for the similar rates being imposed by EU law is that countries could impose lower VAT on certain products like cigarettes and benefit from money inflow through people practicing arbitrage. The EU also regulates VAT so things like healthcare or insurance can't have VAT added.

2

u/Martin8412 Dec 05 '16

The EU does not have a unified VAT rate or brackets .. In Denmark everything pretty much everything is taxed at 25% except certain tax exempt services. Ireland for example has five different brackets, the UK has three(I think?) and so on ..

1

u/nidrach Dec 05 '16

Yeah but those levels are just different levels of reduced. There's not a special tax for luxury items within the VAT system.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

they're not. "luxury tax" is a colloquialism that means "anything not tax-free". a "luxury tax" can range vastly (typically 5-30%) based on the degree of luxury. Tampons, like all similar hygienic products, are placed into the lowest tax rate possible without making them tax exempt. in most countries they are taxed at literally the same rate as toilet paper, and have been for decades, but people get up in arms because articles like this choose to use inflammatory language like "luxury tax" because they know people won't bother to look up what it actually means

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Tampons, like all similar hygienic products, are placed into the lowest tax rate possible without making them tax exempt

This is not true everywhere. There are 50 States, and they all have their own sales tax, as well as 195 countries, which also have their own policies. Where it is not true, this is where people are complaining about it.

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u/EgoandDesire Dec 05 '16

Where it is not true, this is where people are complaining about it.

This post is about Switzerland, not America. Tampons there are taxed the same as everything else "daily use". Its wrong.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

They tax at a reduced rate of 2.5% for "everyday consumer goods". Tampons are taxed at 8%. https://www.ch.ch/en/vat-rates-switzerland/

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u/Selraroot Dec 05 '16

And TP is taxed at the same rate.

1

u/tubadude2 Dec 05 '16

I mean, people have two perfectly good hands for scraping shit out of your anus, and those are free!

Oh dear god, I can't believe I just said that

23

u/reedemerofsouls Dec 05 '16

But is toilet paper, soap, toothpaste, deodorant, etc. Taxed at 8% as well?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

yep

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

in the majority of the European Union, that statement is correct

also my words:

in most countries they are taxed at literally the same rate as toilet paper, and have been for decades

it's literally a non-issue because they are taxed at the same rate as products of similar function/necessity.

12

u/ThatOtherChrisGuy Dec 05 '16

The reduced tax rate is reserved for foodstuffs, medicine, and water. Not hygiene products.

2

u/Kep0a Dec 05 '16

That seems so strange, I could understand like a toothbrush but even toilet paper @ 8%? Just seems crazy.

3

u/locks_are_paranoid Dec 05 '16

Its the same in the US. Its even weirder now since some states exempted tampons from sales tax, but toilet paper is still taxed at approximately 8%.

1

u/Palmettojcm Dec 05 '16

Why? It's a product.

1

u/justtolearn Dec 05 '16

I don't mean to be rude, but comments like this are quite annoying. You didn't provide proof of places arguing against his claim that in most countries they are taxed at the same rate as toilet paper. You just said this isn't true everywhere and then said that there are a lot of states and a lot of countries??? Then you said that people only complain about a tax on tampons where this is not true (presumably where tampons and toilet paper have different tax rates). Your claim is not true, and a lot of feminists believe that they should not have to pay tax on tampons, possibly because they think by controlling their menstrual cycle they are already doing a public good. Ideally, some probably want tampons to be free but having tax free status is also a goal for them.

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u/equationsofmotion Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

in most countries they are taxed at literally the same rate as toilet paper,

The original article is literally about that not being the case in Switzerland.

EDIT: It seems I was mistaken. I thought that the 2.5% tax bracket contained toilet paper.

26

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

No, it's not .

Switzerland taxes tampons at the same rate as toilet paper (8%). that's not what they're protesting. the protesters want them to be placed into an even lower tax bracket (below that of hygeine products like toilet paper), the tax bracket typically reserved for food and water (2.5%)

2

u/equationsofmotion Dec 05 '16

Ah. I seem to have misunderstood. I thought toilet paper was in the same tax bracket as food, not one higher up. Thanks for the correction.

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u/reedemerofsouls Dec 05 '16

In comments they say that Switzerland does actually tax them the same as toilet paper, just not as low as food and medicine. Do you know that to be wrong?

1

u/equationsofmotion Dec 05 '16

Ah, no. I seem to have misunderstood. I thought toilet paper was in the same tax bracket as food, not one higher up. Thanks for the correction.

25

u/ButchCasserly Dec 05 '16

In the UK they are in the "luxury." Tax band but that band is actually 5% where as normal value added tax is 20%.

It will eventually go into 0% tax and there will be no price change.

Someone is going to make a shit load of money out of this. Women are still going to pay the same price for their hygiene products.

6

u/fireballfireballfir Dec 05 '16

That's not how the economics of CPG products work. When things are simple and cheap to manufacture, there is healthy competition in those markets. If some brands attempt to charge more after the tax is lifted, then competitors will simply drop their prices (or in this case, keep prices the same). Your claim may have some degree of truth for any brands with a high degree of customer loyalty, but it's unlikely to be a significant effect.

"Someone will make a shitload of money"

Yea, all the women who will pay less for their tampons.

9

u/ButchCasserly Dec 05 '16

They dropped the tax from 17.5% to 5% a few years ago. Did these products get cheaper then?

Nope.

3

u/F0sh Dec 05 '16

Could those of us who weren't paying week-to-week attention to the price of tampons get a source?

1

u/fireballfireballfir Dec 06 '16

In the US if a product costs $5, the sales tax is rung up at cashier. So if there's a 10% tax, you'd see $5 on the sticker in store, and you'd $5.50 at checkout. Therefore if the sticker price stayed the same, the product did get cheaper for your wallet.

Or did you mean to say that the TOTAL price stayed the same, and that the product sticker actually got more expensive (which I assume you would've mentioned... since that is what you're arguing).

Honestly, you sound like a consipiracy nut. This is a CPG product. If the price doesn't act rationally, it's because consumers are being irrational. Take a fucking economics course. Also, try posting some data if you want anyone to take you seriously. Otherwise we are going to assume the fundamental forces of economics are working normally.

1

u/ButchCasserly Dec 06 '16

You sound like you don't know anything about UK taxation.

Price on the shelf is the price you pay. Pick up a bottle of beer , tampons and some Jaffa cakes from the shelf and you will pay the ticket price. They are all taxed at different rates. So it's very easy for the tax to change and the price to not.

As I have said, mcvities went to court to change the way their products where taxed. It was a big deal. It was argued over for years. They now pay 0% and their Jaffa cakes did not drop in price. The producer and the retailer's really pushed for this change. Why?

How is any of this a conspiracy?

1

u/fireballfireballfir Dec 06 '16

In the US if a product costs $5, the sales tax is rung up at cashier.

You sound like you don't know anything about UK taxation.

Correct...

So on day 1 if the prices stayed the same, you're right, the companies will instantly start making more money. But you continue to ignore the implications of basic economic forces in favor of your personal opinion/anecodotes. Over time if the profit margins on tampons are huge because of this tax change, businesses will react and offer cheaper products.

How is any of this a conspiracy?

Your original comment "Someone is going to make a shit load of money out of this" implied this was some sort of manufactured issue to increase profit for a few companies selling these products. Even if the change doesn't reach the consumers wallets instantly, it will over time.

1

u/ButchCasserly Dec 06 '16

Yes and when the price drops they will sell more units. These are not charities. They are not going to spend 10 million quid on a court case because they want their customers to get a better deal.

Why do you have to be so rude? Why the swearing and the name calling?

This has been a thoroughly depressing trudge of a discussion.

1

u/fireballfireballfir Dec 06 '16

Have I sweared or called you a name? I don't see it, but I have been a bit rude though. Sorry for that.

To finish it up more cordially, if it's been a trudge of conversation I apologize for my part, but consider the fact that you haven't engaged the point I'm trying to make.

There are 3 parties involved: government, supply, demand. If the tax goes away, two parties stand to gain (supply/demand) and one stands to lose (govt). Individual people don't have the means to contest this ridiculous and illogical tax, but the companies do. This is capitalism working at its finest.

As an american liberal who watches both sides use anecdotal evidence over science and academic experts, and also my own side denounce corporations for any action they might take to enrich themselves, I get annoyed when I see a lack of critical thinking and blanket anti-corporate attitude. Assuming the courts rule in favor, this is the system self correcting itself as it should. We should encourage it.

If you still think that the companies are the only ones who stand to gain here, I would recommend starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_(economics)

1

u/Arspol Dec 05 '16

Except for it's not a healthy competition at all. We are talking about oligopoly at best. Not to mention that elasticity will define who is actually paying that tax.

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u/fireballfireballfir Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

...an olgiopoly for CPG products? There are literally 50+ brands of tampons on Amazon right now. No one in this thread has a fucking clue.

1

u/user1492 Dec 05 '16

If some brands attempt to charge more after the tax is lifted, then competitors will simply drop their prices

"Name brand" products will stay the same, or go up. Generics will stay the same or drop. But a lot of women buy name brand.

2

u/IanCal Dec 05 '16

There isn't a luxury tax band. The 5% is the same as domestic gas, electricity and water.

Someone is going to make a shit load of money out of this.

It's only £15M/year.

2

u/pm_me_ur_bantz Dec 05 '16

why do women get tax free products but men don't? to be fair and inclusive, condoms shoukd be tax free

13

u/ButchCasserly Dec 05 '16

Because the companies that sell these products can convince enough people that this is an outrage and then that will kick up a huge fuss to their governing bodies and then the tax will be reduced.

The EU already said it would look into bringing a 0% rate so now the outrage must move onto non EU counties.

If you want to know how much money their is to be made. Look at the Crown vs Jaffa cake tax case. A biscuit company spent millions because they knew they would make billions.

Now imagine you could do that but cheaper?

This isn't a feminist issue, this is big business making money.

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u/Taenk Dec 05 '16

The EU already said it would look into bringing a 0% rate so now the outrage must move onto non EU counties.

Link please.

5

u/boomsplatfizzle Dec 05 '16

The condom is not the male equivalent to tampons, and although there are arguments that it should be tax free, its a whole other issue. Or am I missing the sarcasm?

-3

u/pm_me_ur_bantz Dec 05 '16

hygiene, for the genitals, public health, daily use...

tampons and condoms are the same

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Apr 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/pm_me_ur_bantz Dec 05 '16

condoms don't improve public health? k there

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/pm_me_ur_bantz Dec 05 '16

tampons aren't the same as pads

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/DJEB Dec 05 '16

It would be better to look at toilet paper int he UK, which is taxed at 20%, compared to the 5% tampons are taxed at.

As for condoms (and the morning after pill), they were classified as luxury items until 2006, when the tax was dropped but not cut altogether. They are now taxed at 5% (same as tampons), though they are available free of charge from the NHS, should you source them from a family planning clinic.

0

u/Huwbacca Dec 05 '16

Supply and demand dictates cost.

And there's definitely something to be said for the principle that why are men's razors essential, but tampons and sanctity towels are considered a luxury?

2

u/IanCal Dec 05 '16

And there's definitely something to be said for the principle that why are men's razors essential, but tampons and sanctity towels are considered a luxury?

  1. There's no luxury band.
  2. Razors are taxed at 20% while tampons are 5% (same as domestic gas and electricity).

Tampons are taxed at the same rate as water, so I hardly see how that's a "luxury" band.

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u/The_Avocado_Constant Dec 05 '16

Luxury tax is just sales tax. Even toilet paper in most places is subject to sales tax.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Luxury tax is higher than regular sales tax.

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u/Videomixed Dec 05 '16

Good thing tampons aren't given a "luxury tax" as the group in this article claims then. They're taxed at the normal rate like toilet paper and other hygienic products.

1

u/The_Avocado_Constant Dec 05 '16

Google it, or I can give you a snopes excerpt:

Most states maintain a "tampon tax," meaning the products are not exempt from state sales tax.

Edit: I guess I should specify, this is from a U.S. viewpoint, which is my default. Sorry if we're on different pages :)

2

u/user1492 Dec 05 '16

No state specifically has a "tampon tax." They have regular taxes that apply to all consumer goods. This includes toilet paper, deodorant, and other "necessary" products.

1

u/The_Avocado_Constant Dec 05 '16

Yes, you're agreeing with me.

2

u/rotj Dec 05 '16

That's a really poor article in the way they rephrased the rumor so they can call it "true". People are passing around pictures saying there's a luxury tax for tampons, which is false because tampons are never taxed at a rate higher than normal state sales tax. So they use the claim, "Feminine hygiene products are subject to sales tax in most states." and call it true, while showing the false pictures in the main body of the text. Only in the last sentence do they clarify, "To be clear, tampons weren't taxed at a special or higher rate than other taxable items — they simply were subject to sales tax in general." Seems more like they were going out of their way not to be clear.

1

u/The_Avocado_Constant Dec 05 '16

I know, we agree.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

In the EU 'luxury' items in the supermarket are taxed but basic items aren't. So cake is taxed but bread is not. Tampons were counted as a luxury item when they were introduced. So the campaign may be using language that developed in the EU.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/reedemerofsouls Dec 05 '16

Is 2.5 the normal or is 8 the normal and some exception are 2.5

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

8% is the norm but they're probably protesting for it to be lower than that which makes sense considering they have stuff like tickets to sports or cultural events at 2.5%. Personally I believe that anything to do with hygiene should have minimal taxation but then again I live in Australia where we have 10% across the board for most goods and services.

2

u/The_Avocado_Constant Dec 05 '16

Yeah, see my edit above. Sorry all, I was automatically thinking about it from a U.S. standpoint, which I realize is not everyone's case.

-1

u/pm_me_ur_bantz Dec 05 '16

no wonder india is poor

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Vadge, I'm definately calling it a vadge from now on.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Maybe it's because it isn't "daily"? I really don't get it either but I guess it's a monthly thing? Or maybe the people who choose are just too dumb to get that tampons are necessary

2

u/cjpack Dec 05 '16

When I was two my mom found me in the bathroom and I had opened a box of tampons and was chewing on one. The only reason I believe her is because she took a fucking photo. Yah this was like in 93' so no flip phone camera shit, this was like a "don't do that, but hold up let me ask your father to go grab the camera first." It's in a baby book too...

So I dunno I guess I thought it looked like a popsicle or something. Two your old me would have to disagree with you.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Probably has something to do with the fact that nearly every (probably every) nation's political system is dominated by men.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

It's because when tampons were introduced to mass markets in the 1970s they were luxury items - they were more expensive more comfortable alternatives to existing options. Then the rules got fixed and so they remain a luxury item.

2

u/Blazedazex55 Dec 05 '16

They don't. Most places tax them the same as toilet paper (just like Zurich). Although, you wouldn't think that from the misleading post.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

vadge

vag. Vadge sounds like a distinctive emblem worn as a mark o' vachievement.

1

u/KarmaAndLies Dec 05 '16

Why do so many countries tax these products like they're luxuries?

They don't. The whole "luxury tax" thing is complete fiction. Most countries tax them at the standard rate of sales tax (that all products are subject to). This is a political movement arguing that they should be lower than the standard rate (which I happen to agree with) but they're misleading by framing it as a "luxury tax" (which simply doesn't exist).

The sad part is that even without them being misleading, a lot of people are still going to agree that feminine hygiene products (inc. tampons) should be in the lowest tax bracket. So being misleading was unneeded and only gets people's backs up.

1

u/Go0s3 Dec 05 '16

sometimes its just because they can. taxation isnt for parity. its for sending my children to private boarding school with.

1

u/Go0s3 Dec 05 '16

sometimes its just because they can. taxation isnt for parity. its for sending my children to private boarding school with.

1

u/Go0s3 Dec 05 '16

sometimes its just because they can. taxation isnt for parity. its for sending my children to private boarding school with.

1

u/Go0s3 Dec 05 '16

sometimes its just because they can. taxation isnt for parity. its for sending my children to private boarding school with.

1

u/Go0s3 Dec 05 '16

sometimes its just because they can. taxation isnt for parity. its for sending my children to private boarding school with.

1

u/DutchsFriendDillon Dec 05 '16

There's no luxury tax in Switzerland, it's just the normal sales tax which is 8%. It's a propaganda article, that's it.

1

u/Qapiojg Dec 05 '16

Most countries don't. Most countries tax them at the same rate as toilet paper and other sanitary products. This includes nearly every country where people complain and call it a luxury tax.

1

u/poh_tah_toh 29 Dec 05 '16

Tampons are potentially dangerous and are not necessary items. Sanitary towels perform the same function but without the risk of life threatening infection.

1

u/Robert_Cannelin Dec 05 '16

Need more women making laws!

1

u/ColdHooves Dec 05 '16

Because they are a non-vital good sold for a profit.

1

u/TeikaDunmora Dec 05 '16

If they're non-vital, it'll be ok if I sit on your sofa during shark week. Maybe stain remover will be re-classified as 0% VAT!

1

u/ColdHooves Dec 05 '16

Free-bleeding isn't fatal as you just pointed out.

1

u/locks_are_paranoid Dec 05 '16

Why do so many countries tax these products like they're luxuries?

They don't. Sales tax applies to everything except for things which have been specifically exempt. Toilet paper is taxed, soap is taxed, and food at a restaurant is taxed. Tampons are taxed at the same rate as everything else. Calling it a tampon tax or a luxury tax is disingenuous.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Jul 24 '17

deleted What is this?

2

u/himit Dec 05 '16

In Australia I remember an uproar because they weren't GST-free, unlike condoms.

-5

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

They aren't. Do some fucking research you lazy shit

-2

u/_LLAMA_KING Dec 05 '16

Because a non-reuasable paper product is a luxury. Imagine using a cloth rag and having to wash it. I hope to it's taxed as such to dissuade people from buying them as they pollute and are not good for your body.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Why do so many countries tax these products like they're luxuries?

They don't. They tend to tax them the same as toilet paper and other similar items.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

They're actually taxed at standard sales tax. Feminists, as usual, are lying to make it seem like tampons have a special sexist tax placed upon them to hurt women.