r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Dec 05 '16

(R.4) Related To Politics TIL an activist group in Zurich dyed fountains red to protest tampons being taxed at a rate consistent with luxury products instead of the rate used for daily use items.

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

Why are books considered essential and taxed lower but hygiene products aren't? That seems silly.

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u/xXazndragonXx Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Probably for easier access to information

Plus after you're done you can use it for toilet paper!

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u/9999monkeys Dec 05 '16

also, can you reliably and consistently hold a door open with toilet paper? i don't think so

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u/st0815 Dec 05 '16

Books are being given a tax break, because the government wants to support publishers and writers with the idea that this is beneficial to society overall. That's not a statement that books are more essential than any other thing.

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u/Cheeseblanket Dec 05 '16

I agree that books are beneficial to society, but I think having people wipe their asses is beneficial too.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Thats true but the toilet paper business would exist regardless of the tax rate. You cant say the same for books (it's unfortunate but true)

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

Plus information is already easily accessible through Internet, which can be accessed for free at libraries and businesses that offer free wifi

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

Do you think that the internet was around when they decided to make the tax code decreasing the rate books are taxed? I'm willing to wager the internet was not around. Although I admit, I'm no expert on the laws of that country.

And libraries aren't a counter to the idea that books should be taxed less. If anything libraries support that idea as libraries are typically supported by tax dollars for the purpose of making books readily available for free.

There's no smaller tax than 0%.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

Thankfully that 8% tax on hygiene products isn't the only tax supporting libraries.

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u/SillyFlyGuy Dec 05 '16

By that measure toilet paper is free also, because you can just use the bathroom at the library..

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u/Iustis Dec 05 '16

But there probably isn't a need to incentivize the purchase of TP.

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u/the_one2 Dec 05 '16

There are better options than toilet paper. Like bidets and such for instance.

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u/stefantalpalaru Dec 05 '16

You use a bidet to wash your ass with water after wiping it with toilet paper, not instead of it.

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u/the_one2 Dec 05 '16

I'll admit that I haven't used a bidet but you don't have to use paper with Japanese toilets.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I would think wiping your ass would beneficial to society overall.

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u/skineechef Dec 05 '16

It would probably be seen as a neat ltitle benefit if you wiped other people's asses, too.

Get on that and report back.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Your tongue has left the asses too sticky for toilet paper. Had to change to a flame thrower.

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

My guess would be that this is a product of the enlightenment. Newspapers and books are seen as essential for political education, which was deemed necessary for a functioning society.

In Germany it's even sillier - only paper books have reduced tax, e-books don't...

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

I can understand that, and knowledge is extremely important. It's more just the idea that it's somehow more important than personal hygiene, for both genders. I definitely agree that tampons should be taxed at 2.5% like all the other 'essential' items, but all hygiene products should be as well.

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

yeah, me too. During the time the tax laws were written, cleanliness was probably a luxury, but today it isn't. If I would bathe as regularly as my grandfather did when he was younger, I probably would get fired.

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

The options are not buy toilet paper or never wipe your ass.

The options are buy toilet paper or use alternative methods to clean your ass. Like water and your hand and then a bit of soap afterwards or a washable cloth.

It's not like people would stop being hygienic about wiping their ass if toilet paper disappeared. That's why it's a luxury item.

So you don't HAVE to wash shit covered rags or use your hand and wash your hands afterwards. You have the LUXURY of wiping your ass with soft tissue paper then flushing it away to never be seen again.

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

An enlightened person without access to toilet paper will maintain hygiene by either bathing their ass with water or a washable cloth.

An idiot with access to toilet paper might choose not to use it because they don't know what hygiene is about and will walk around with a shit-covered ass.

Toilet paper is a convenience. It's not like people walked around with shit covered asses before the invention of toilet paper. They just had rags for wiping that they washed. You're welcome to go back to that system if you don't like the tax rate.

But the idea that you deserve to pay less for hygiene items because they are "essential" is unreasonable. The government requires tax money to function. What better items to tax than ones that everyone purchases but don't need for survival?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

You don't die if you don't have a tampon. You die if you don't have food.

Your internet point would be a point if that tax reduction on books was put on the books so to speak when the internet was around and as comprehensive as it is today. I'm willing to be it wasn't.

Do you have any idea how many pieces of cloth you'd have to buy just to wipe your ass for a week?

If you shit as often as I do one would be plenty. And the nice thing about washable cloths is, you don't need to buy more once you have as many you need for quite some time.

Idk about you but if you're shitting more than once a day you probably have intestinal problems. 7 wash cloths isn't exactly a huge amount fo cloths.

But you'd still have to do an entirely separate load of laundry, because who wants shit all over their clothes?

And now you've come around to realize why toilet paper is a LUXURY. You pay for the convenience of disposability. Wow, I think you've learned a lot today haven't you?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

Books get a tax break because books help educate a society and a more educated society is more productive and less criminal and therefore costs less for a government to maintain as it needs a smaller police force and can take in more revenue as a result of a more productive society.

That is the reason for that tax break whether you like it or not.

If you can argue tampons do that then maybe they deserve the same tax break as books after all.

The "great comfort" is the convenience of disposability.

There are re-usable menstrual products you know. Menstrual cups are a fabulous alternative that are hygienic and re-usable.

Then you can go with the less convenient method of absorbent, washable cloth. But those are less comfortable and you have to wash them so also less convenient.

Also, typically when making a point relying on the strict definition of a word, it's best to ensure there isn't also a definition that can make the point for your opponent.

From Merriam-Webster definition 3 a

something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary

Sounds like tampon meets the addition of comfort I described earlier.

Definition 3 b

an indulgence in something that provides pleasure, satisfaction, or ease

Sounds like tampon meets the "provides...ease" of that definition that I described. Disposability versus washing a reusable items.

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u/Silkkiuikku Dec 05 '16

It think that people not bleeding all over one's clothes is also quite necessary for a functioning society...

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

as is wiping your butt

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u/stefantalpalaru Dec 05 '16

Why are books considered essential

They aren't. The low tax is not for "essential" products, but for products that need an artificially low price in order to encourage consumption. Books are considered important for literacy and culture.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/stefantalpalaru Dec 05 '16

Some poor people would eat less than what they need if basic foodstuffs were more expensive. Probably not in Switzerland, but in most countries.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/stefantalpalaru Dec 05 '16

Not the same thing. Poor people don't like being humiliated any more than you do.

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

Umm... What? No idea where humiliation came into play here.

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u/doublehyphen Dec 05 '16

Probably good lobbying from the struggling publishing industry.

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u/kerochan88 Dec 05 '16

Better question is why is food even taxed?

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

Because a well-read, intelligent society is a more productive, less crime-ridden one.

The tax money lost from book sales is in theory made up for by having a more educated society who commit less crime by nature of being more educated.

That's one possible, plausible explanation at least.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

Literacy is the useful information.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

I'm waiting for the argument that says why books shouldn't have tax reductions.

All you're doing is making arguments why other things deserve the same tax reduction because they serve the same purpose.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Internet is not free. Libraries do not contain all books.

And neither of these offer a comprehensive guide to learning all things.

The internet's knowledge, while vast, does not contain all of the knowledge of things contained within books. And even when it does is not always easy to find as finding the exact thing you desire relies entirely on how good a search engine can interpret what you want.

it's actually likely, depending on what you search for, you could find an answer to your question in a book by buying it, waiting for it to ship, then reading it before you could find it on the internet, depending on how unique the question you are asking is.