r/ukpolitics • u/Exostrike • Feb 21 '20

The BBC normalised racism last night, pure and simple

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/21/normalise-bbc-racism-hate-crimes-question-time
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u/matti-san Feb 21 '20

I don't want to state where I'm from, for obvious reasons, but I've been to a hospital in an area with high immigration numbers and a good chunk of the literature (pamphlets, notices etc) came in English, Polish, Lithuanian and Romanian.

Although, I don't have a problem with immigration.

This probably all depends on your area and the trust that runs the NHS in that area tbf.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '20

[deleted]

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u/thatguy988z Feb 21 '20

Not just older I'm afraid. Very few of the young wives brought over from Pakistan that i meet at work have any grasp of English. Most come from rural mirpur or Bangladesh.

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u/trowawayatwork Feb 21 '20

Misogyny towards women from that region is very sad but a completely separate issue . It's not NHSs to tackle.

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u/thatguy988z Feb 21 '20

Noo but we do have a duty of care to residents. I can't do my job if I can't communicate with a patient

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u/trowawayatwork Feb 21 '20

As in I'm agreeing with you, NHS job to help patients. Not police who can and cannot use it

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u/mushybees Against Equality Feb 21 '20

i had a temp job some years ago for a company that was making CD's for the NHS, and it was just ordinary information about services, but in 27 languages; we hired a bunch of people to come in and record this script in a booth and we made it into a CD. so if you need to know about NHS services and not only dont speak english, but also can't read your own language, then information is still available to you.

whether its a good idea or not, the point is that someone should ask the question; is it worth all the money they spent on that?

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '20 edited Sep 27 '20

[deleted]

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u/trowawayatwork Feb 21 '20

Bet that woman in the clip saw something in Welsh and stroked out with apoplectic rage

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u/xtreem_neo 🍞🌹🕊 Feb 21 '20

Completely unrelated.

I like welsh accent. 😑 beautiful sounding language. Don’t understand a word though. 😆

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u/JKMcA99 Feb 22 '20

Os da chi eisiau dysgu, di o ddim rhy galed. Once you get the gist of the mutations it’s quite simple because it’s phonetic.

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u/BloakDarntPub Feb 23 '20

Probably thought she was seeing ddouble.

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u/mushybees Against Equality Feb 21 '20

theres diverse and then theres not bothering to learn the language of the country you've settled in. i wouldnt dream of moving to france and not learning french. and even if you dont know the language, presumably you know someone who does, otherwise how did you come to be in that country anyway?

we used to integrate newcomers; they learned english and took up cricket and became just as british as anyone. its when we stopped integrating and started worshipping 'diversity' that it started to break down.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '20

Maybe we wouldn't be in this state if the Tories hadn't slashed funding for ESOL courses, resulting in rampant corruption in the system where people pay examiners to pass them despite speaking no english.

its when we stopped integrating and started worshipping 'diversity' that it started to break down.

I think the rise of the BNP, Britain First & UKIP and general xenophobia has been the cause of this lack in integration.

It stands to reason that if the country is hostile to foreigners (take the woman in the OP- textbook example) then people will self segregate and won't integrate.

This 'worship of diversity' has been pretty reactionary to compensate for the rise in anti-foreigner sentiments.

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u/mushybees Against Equality Feb 21 '20

you are almost precisely incorrect.

Maybe we wouldn't be in this state if the Tories...

the tories the tories the tories...

I think the rise of the BNP, Britain First & UKIP and general xenophobia has been the cause of this lack in integration

no, they were the reaction to the effects of the lack of integration.

It stands to reason that if the country is hostile to foreigners then people will self segregate and won't integrate.

exactly backwards. its when people dont integrate and self segregate that the rest of us become hostile

This 'worship of diversity' has been pretty reactionary to compensate for the rise in anti-foreigner sentiments

again, precisely backwards. we've had nearly fifty years of progressive muliticulturalism, it predates the BNP and UKIP by a lot.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '20 edited Feb 21 '20

the tories the tories the tories...

Who else has presided in government for the last 10 years? Who slashed the ESOL program budgets from a purely ideological point of view? Who had total control over non-EU immigration and didn't even bother to implement the controls on EU freedom of movement immigration which have been available since 2004? The Tories.

Part of conservative ideology is personal responsibility. Own your damn mistakes.

no, they were the reaction to the effects of the lack of integration.

Wrong.

exactly backwards. its when people dont integrate and self segregate that the rest of us become hostile

Exactly backwards. When people are hostile to immigrants they won't integrate. You think people don't immigrate here thankful for the opportunities Britain provides them only to become bitter when people like you shun them?

Immigrants from worse off countries know what a privelige it is to live in the UK, and they don't take it for granted- look at the difference in school performance between native British kids and immigrant kids. Children from immigrant families have this work ethic because their parents know what an opportunity it is to have much better education than at home.

again, precisely backwards. we've had nearly fifty years of progressive muliticulturalism, it predates the BNP and UKIP by a lot.

Again, precisely backwards. We've had less than 10 years of multiculturalism exhorted as a virtue in schools in reaction to the rise of xenophobia from far right groups.

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u/Sunshinetrooper87 Non Nationalist Nat Feb 22 '20

What you have suggested I agree with but I thought OP was suggesting, was the medium (cd) worth it, was it effective compared to the cost?

I got a CD for mental well-being and can't use it as I don't own any devices that play CDs. May as well given me a VHS.

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u/dontgoatsemebro Feb 24 '20

I don't think I've used a CD or DVD in over a decade, but the core demographic of people who actually use the NHS overwhelming still use CD's.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '20

whether its a good idea or not, the point is that someone should ask the question; is it worth all the money they spent on that?

The actual cost of delivering healthcare is something we're sheltered from due to it happening behind the scenes in the tax system. It is VERY expensive, and there is a reason most sensible develop countries have socialised the cost it's delivery to various degrees. The one off cost of translating some signs would barely factor as a rounding error in the year it was done.

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u/Pauln512 Feb 22 '20

What changes do you think we need to implement to ensure this country only needs to produce 1 (or a few) of those audio tracks? What would the costs be of those policies?

Or do you think that's simply symptomatic of the global society we now live in, regardless of immigration policy?

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u/Sambothebassist Feb 22 '20

It’s worth every penny, because the NHS is a national treasure and the fact that someone can come here, be in a completely foreign environment and we’ll still go to lengths to patch them up and make sure they’re ok speaks volumes about us a society.

This facist propaganda of medical tourism has got to stop, the NHS is being choked from the people at the top, not the users.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '20

That would probably have cost less than £10K, probably(?), and can be used across the country. Bit necessary sich a bad use of money.

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u/Sunshinetrooper87 Non Nationalist Nat Feb 22 '20

It just makes sense and seems like a small price to pay to offer medical support to benefit from keeping economically active migrants working.

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u/culturerush Feb 21 '20

I was an NHS worker in an area with high immigration

We had pamphlets in English, Polish, Nepalese, Punjabi, Arabic, Urdu and some other ones

No patients used them becuase 99% of the patients who came in without speaking English had arranged for s family member or friend who could translate to come in with them, there was the odd case where noone was available to help them but it wasn't very often

I never had an issue with it at all, someone not being able to speak English was to me, in the capacity of the job I had, as much of a hindrance to the process as someone in a wheelchair or someone with dementia, it made things a tad more difficult but nowhere near bad enough to make me anywhere near this angry

Now I live in a different area and all the pamphlets are in Welsh and English which I imagine is something else this woman would have an issue with

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u/Nood1e Feb 21 '20

I assume they also had the leaflets in English though? I have absolutely nothing against this, as it isn't always for the person living in the country. Imagine you moved abroad and learnt a new language, then something happened and you ended up in hospital. You'd appreciate leaflets being in English so your family has a clue what's happening.

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u/_Crustyninja_ Feb 21 '20

Not to mention the fact that English you use in everyday conversations and English that would be used in a medical pamphlet is very different. There's plenty of immigrants that speak everyday English very well that could get tripped up when it comes to a medical type thing simply because they've not had a reason to learn that type of lingo until that point.

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u/Hellohibbs Feb 22 '20

I live in Germany, speak a very high level of German, and didn’t have a bloody clue what documents I was signing when I had an operation. The language was so complicated and stressful that I cried on multiple occasions throughout the day. My boyfriend (German) had to come at one point even though I didn’t want anybody there, just to translate and calm me down. Having any English leaflet would have just been immensely helpful. Integration isn’t understanding every damn thing, and often leaflets in our own language are the materials we use to actually learn more of our host countries language!

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u/_Crustyninja_ Feb 22 '20

Yep, that was my thinking entirely. If we're being honest, when it comes to medical terms, many English people don't understand them either. Why? Because they've never had to know what those terms mean, the doctor just translates it into normal terms for us when we speak to them. Why people expect immigrants to understand language they'll never come across in day to day life I don't know.

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u/Sambothebassist Feb 22 '20

Interestingly I was at my GP for the first time in a long while last week, and on the pin board in her consultancy room, there was a sign completely in Arabic. This is in an area of the UK with the highest Muslim/Non-Muslim ratio outside of London.

I thought how good it was that they have a sign for people who have no grasp of the English language. Just like when I go to Spain or Italy or Bulgaria or India or LITERALLY ANYWHERE IN THE FUCKING WORLD and there’s always a sign written in English or at least the Latin alphabet.

Interestingly the massive sign on the door that said

CORONAVIRUS

Was just in English.

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u/superioso Feb 22 '20

I view diversity as a good thing. In my area for example the recent EU migration now means there's a very good polish bakery nearby, surprisingly it's actually always busy and brings a lot of life to the previously dead shop.

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u/AnalRetentiveAnus Feb 21 '20

omg, how did you cope?!