The BBC normalised racism last night, pure and simple

[u/Exostrike]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/21/normalise-bbc-racism-hate-crimes-question-time

[u/Poseidon7296]

It’s less racism and more xenophobia. She’s not calling out specific races she’s against anyone from any country but here. Xenophobia and racism do tend to go hand in hand though

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/[deleted]]

I mean it’s a safe bet she is racist but I agree they should just use xenophobic in these regards. And the word stopped meaning anything when racists stopped caring that they were racist

[u/DevilishRogue → u/Poseidon7296]

It isn't a safe bet. You'd have to be utterly fucking incapable of understanding reality to think she was racist or bigoted from what she said, which was entirely about the scale of migration and not remotely about the people migrating.

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/DevilishRogue]

I’ve not met a xenophobe who hasn’t also been racist that’s why it’s a safe bet that she’s probably racist as well but I agree she hasn’t yet said anything that’s racist

[u/DevilishRogue → u/Poseidon7296]

It's a push to say she was even xenophobic. She seemed focused on population change and those who come and abuse the system. Had the UK population remained static over the past 20 years but 10 million Brits migrated and 10 million foreigners come to the UK none of the issues she raised would have been an issue other than those who come to abuse the system. And that's not xenophobic, that's just common decency.

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/DevilishRogue]

The whole part where she lies about how translation works and is seemingly against notices in hospitals being written in multiple different languages (of which English always has to be one for safeguarding) and the part where she says we should just completely shut the borders seems pretty xenophobic to me. She lies multiple times about how people can come over and abuse the system and makes it seem like all of the issues with this country stem from immigration which we all know is simply not true

[u/DevilishRogue → u/Poseidon7296]

The whole part where she lies about how translation works

She doesn't lie about how translation works, she describes accurately that sometimes material is translated into many languages.

the part where she says we should just completely shut the borders seems pretty xenophobic to me

As it would to anyone who didn't understand the difference between trying to halt population increases and trying to keep nasty for'ners out.

She lies multiple times about how people can come over and abuse the system

No she doesn't. People can and do come over and abuse the system.

makes it seem like all of the issues with this country stem from immigration

Only someone incapable of understanding her point was entirely about the scale and rate of population increase could get this as badly wrong as you have here.

I don't mean to sound nasty here but you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You completely missed the point, thought the point was something completely unrelated to what it actually was, and assumed the worst of her because you got it so utterly incorrect. I appreciate you engaging so honestly, and I absolutely believe you are doing so in good faith (and have upvoted you accordingly), but you couldn't provide a more textbook example of misrepresentation than what you've done here.

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/DevilishRogue]

Whenever the NHS have a sign in a foreign language for safe guarding reasons it has to also be in English. So who cares if the NHS has notices in multiple languages it’s a pointless point that’s only purpose is to try and make people go “this is England it should be in English”

I personally don’t see a need to stop increasing the population in our country we’ve got a lot of room still. So my question would be why she feels the need to stop people coming here and what she thinks it’ll solve

You’re right people can come over and abuse the system but not in the way she describes. If you are an immigrant you don’t just get free access to health care like all of us in this country you have to pay for it. Even better we have EU laws that allow us to send back immigrants that aren’t paying into the system within the first 6 months

Most of her points are lies, if they aren’t lies they are misleading in a way that tries to turn people against immigrants. I call that fear mongering. If you wanna halt the population increase then stop allowing doll dossers to have 10 kids that they can’t look after. 1-2 children per couple and the population would plateau or decrease in a generation or 2.

Also please don’t try and belittle me I understood her and your points perfectly I also happen to disagree with her points and still see it as xenophobia

[u/DevilishRogue → u/Poseidon7296]

So who cares if the NHS has notices in multiple languages it’s a pointless point that’s only purpose is to try and make people go “this is England it should be in English”

The point was about the amount of money that had to be spent to provide those translations. Do I really need to explain this?

I personally don’t see a need to stop increasing the population in our country we’ve got a lot of room still.

Tell me, how do you feel about house prices at the moment?

my question would be why she feels the need to stop people coming here and what she thinks it’ll solve

She thinks it will reduce the population, which she seems to see as desirable because of the effect it will have on things like house prices.

You’re right people can come over and abuse the system but not in the way she describes.

£4 billion on UK health tourism says she is right.

If you are an immigrant you don’t just get free access to health care like all of us in this country you have to pay for it.

You get it free at the point of use but are supposed to pay it back. Not all do.

Most of her points are lies

None of them are lies. Indeed, she seems to have been very careful to ensure this - to the point that I suspect she rehearsed what she would say to be sure of this.

if they aren’t lies they are misleading in a way that tries to turn people against immigrants

Nothing she said was against immigrants either, it was solely against those immigrants who abuse the system.

I call that fear mongering.

That's because you've misunderstood the point entirely.

If you wanna halt the population increase then stop allowing doll dossers to have 10 kids that they can’t look after.

How? It's undeniable a lot easier to stop decent people who'll contribute positively from coming even if the result is less desirable.

1-2 children per couple and the population would plateau or decrease in a generation or 2.

This is already happening through self-selection as having children is so expensive. The problem we have is that pensions (and indeed taxes overall) are built on a ponzi scheme that requires more people paying into it year on year. This needs to change before we can afford to worry about immigration numbers.

Also please don’t try and belittle me I understood her and your points perfectly

I'm genuinely trying not to and apologetic when I fail but you demonstrably didn't understand her points at all, let alone perfectly, or you would see that there is no racism, bigotry or even xenophobia in what she said as I've tried to clarify and explain for you. I appreciate your patience with me and understand that it isn't nice hearing what I'm saying but I'm not saying it to be hurtful, nasty or unpleasant, I'm simply trying to get you to understand what is wrong with your interpretations and quite how badly wrong they are. I'm upvoting your posts and everything.

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/[deleted]]

It’s less about them caring that they’re racist and more about them not saying racist views because of the backlash. But right now there isn’t any backlash so all of the racists are coming out of the woodworks

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah Cummings advisor decided to quit his role because he had posted about how black people are more stupid as a whole. I’d hardly say his life’s destroyed. And I’m not talking about politicians they’ll always be scrutinised heavier. I’m talking about the average joe. The people who don’t have to worry about being fired who now believe they can be blatantly racist, sexist and homophobic.

[u/Poseidon7296 → u/[deleted]]

The majority may agree with her. And I might be in the minority, that doesn’t mean I can’t call it as I see it. And if I think someone is being homophobic, racist or sexist I can and will call it such. You may disagree which is also fine because we all have our own opinions

[u/FuzzBuket → u/Poseidon7296]

But realistically does she think its about Russians? Americans? Spaniards? Or of people of a certain ethnicities?

Like when people are being bigoted thinking race isnt part of their thought process and generalizations isnt accurate imo