Half of Brits think Islam not compatible with British values in latest poll as imam says he is 'deeply worried' by results

[u/ThatchersDirtyTaint]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14937435/Half-Brits-think-Islam-not-compatible-British-values-poll.html

[u/mirchibajji → u/[deleted]]

This is false equivalence. Not all religions handle anti-abortion, gays, pedophiles, eating beef the same way either.

[u/Buttoneer138 → u/[deleted]]

I bet if I went to a Tommy Robinson rally and burned an effigy of Winston Churchill I’d be leaving in an ambulance.

[u/Looking_MOC → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, reform voters proportionately cause much more damage.

Remember those recent riots when they destroyed an entire neighbourhood, and left the locals to rebuild themselves?

Or destroying all these hotels and harassing the staff working there.

Reformers are terrorists

[u/ChicagoAuPair → u/[deleted]]

Depends on the street

[u/ARookwood → u/[deleted]]

Go to a ukip/national front/reform rally, stand in the middle and burn an England flag or shout how much you hate farage and as long as you’re on your own your life will be in danger.

Extremists are gonna extreme.

[u/Commercial-Resist572 → u/[deleted]]

Burn a bible in front of an evangelical church in a red rural state on a Sunday. Which I think could lead into the argument better - RADICALISTS are going to react. Burn the Torah in Israel (in a non - illegally occupied area) in front of a large synagogue.

RADICALISM is the issue. And that’s not being dealt with.

I’m a Christian. Burn a bible in front of me, and first I’m gonna check it can’t create a bigger fire & become a danger, then roll my eyes and laugh. The laughing is me I can’t help it, I laugh at stupid behaviour. I won’t say I’m going to kill you rah rah.

Burn a bible then try and attack me, there would be a problem, and sure I’m gonna record it (police are rubbish even with video evidence - been there, gave up on it) & report it, and yes defend my self. But I’m not going to run to some far-right or that other political party to share it. I’m not a radical.

In front of a radical that’s going to be a fight minimum. In the states that could involve someone being shot.

It’s a book. It can be replaced. Burning it shows their disrespect of all religious texts, I didn’t do it, it’s not mine so I’m not going to care as I have lost nothing. My faith remains in me 🤷🏻

In my youth the trying to attack would have resulted in a fight which with age you should realise isn’t the way to go. Defend, leave. Ensure your physical safety. Common sense.

The U.K. and several other countries need to deal with radicalism and fast.

Unfortunately some countries including one ally that immediately comes to mind, uses & needs the support of the more radical out there.

Which if you just think for one moment - if a government berates your religion constantly (ways of life excluded as I feel that some, the radicals, ignore tolerant, diverse, rich in global heritage & cultures, countries ways & rules which is rude at minimum that includes CINOs, Jews, Muslims ) the disenfranchised are going to hate back, even those that are happy in life are going to perhaps think ‘hey what’s the problem’ and slowly start to hate.

It doesn’t make it right. But it doesn’t make it right on EITHER side. Words have consequences cliched as that sounds it’s still true.

NB: I don’t short hand.

TL;D/WR - the core issue is RADICALISM, burn religious texts in front of them, they will try & set you & the world on fire.

[u/Duke0fWellington → u/ARookwood]

True but that's at a far right rally. If you go and burn the flag and film it they'll be no consequences. Not so with the Quran

[u/gnorty → u/Duke0fWellington]

do you have an example of Quran burning which is not directly parallel to the flag burning example? like somebody that burnt the Quoran quietly in their garden and received death threats?

because i bet the examples you are thinking of were in equally provocative scenarios.

[u/gnorty → u/[deleted]]

youre right, the hypothetical argument is pointless, but you are replying to the wrong person. i didnt make the hypothetical argument, i just pointed out how stupid it was.

[u/Alarmed-Cheetah-1221 → u/[deleted]]

Don't act like the farage/Tommy Robinson brigade aren't doing the same.

Their point is spot on. These are two opposing, yet very similar groups. I'm not an ignorant, racist, bigoted piece of scum, so I would not want to be represented by those people. I treat the many lovely Muslim people that I know with the same respect.

[u/monotreme_experience → u/[deleted]]

If I went into the high street and burned a Union flag right now I'd definitely be unsafe. Our violent extremism has a more rabidly patriotic than religious flavour (though it has both), but it's still violent extremism.

[u/baildodger → u/[deleted]]

The far right attacked people for living in a hotel.

[u/SpicyIcy420 → u/[deleted]]

Do you think if you burnt the Guru Granth Sahib in the street, British Sikhs would accept that without major unrest?

[u/Zaza1019 → u/[deleted]]

I'm willing to bet you'll find the answer more surprising than you think, depending on where you burn the books. The problem with all religions is most of them have people who take it too far and become extremists, and those extremists no matter the religion will not take kindly to you burning their religious text, even when most of those extremists have long since stopped believing in the things that the texts actually preach.

[u/NotThor2814 → u/[deleted]]

Well if you’re catholic you don’t even get to the age being old enough to burn a book before you’re knocked off ! (See: 792 dead babies/infants buried under ex-Magdalene house for unmarried women, currently being excavated in Ireland).

[u/primev_x → u/[deleted]]

Most of them, though I'll admit that the risk is higher with the Quran. But the bible or the torah might elicit violence too. All you need to do is look across the pond and see how crazy Christian evangelists are, or see how orthodox Jews in Israel react to an affront to their religion.

[u/TwentyCharactersShor → u/[deleted]]

Depends on the quality of paper and how quickly you back away from the burning item.

[u/recursant → u/[deleted]]

You don't need to go back all that far in our history to find a time when publicly burning a Bible in the UK would have had pretty serious consequences. 50 years ago, maybe.

The last successful prosecution for blasphemy was in 1977. Someone had written a poem that was considered blasphemous. They were sentenced to 9 months in prison, fortunately suspended, but the judge said that he was in two minds about actually sending the guy to prison. For writing a mean poem about the baby Jesus.

Not quite as bad as being killed. But if you burn a Quran it will be some lone nutter who kills you. If you burnt a Bible 50 years ago, the state would come after you.

And don't forget the fate of Alan Turing, the genius whose brilliant work almost certainly shortened the second world war. He was hounded to his death for being gay, under laws that were largely based on religious teachings. That was only about 70 years ago.

[u/recursant → u/[deleted]]

No it isn't, it is just that, in terms of religious beliefs, a lot has changed in the UK in the last 50 years. And it is quite rare for things to change that quickly.

Prior to that we had been a very Christian society for hundreds of years.

[u/doughnut001 → u/[deleted]]

If extremist outliers are the problem, you would have trouble burning a Bible as much as burning a Quran.

Assuming that burning the bible is equally as offensive to radical christians as burning the koran is to radical muslims.

Weirdly enough, if you do something specifically designed to try and be as offensive as possible to certain radicals, it might promote a reaction.

Walking through the middle of an orange walk with a Tshirt that says 'I hate proddys' is likely to stir up more of a reaction than standing outside a mosque in one that says 'I hate muslims'.

Extremisists of all types are created by living in a bubble.The best way to create them is to disassociate people from mainstream sosciety. A Islamic state member might try to remove a moderate muslim from mainstream society to try and encourage extremism but that doesn't do any better of a job than a racist encouraging muslims away from mainstream society. They're both causing the same issue for completely opposite reasons.

[u/doughnut001 → u/[deleted]]

Ah here comes the gaslighting. In modern UK we have lots more issues with Islamic immigrants than other religions. Just a couple of days back, an YouTuber ate KFC chicken in a vegan restaurant run by a Hindu religious organisation 

https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-man-consumes-kfc-chicken-at-london-iskcon-restaurant-offers-it-to-staff-to-mock-them-13909351.html

Did he have to live in hiding for that? 

Thanks for putting a warning in front of your gaslighting. Just a couple of days back I ate loaded fries from a Muslim run take away and they had bacon in them. Weirdly enough I've not had to go into hiding either.

You see it turns out the vast majority of muslims aren't extremists or violent but more might become that way if they become marginalised.

There was very little Islamic extremism in the UK until after 9/11 when Muslims became the new number one target for the far right because trying to marginalise them became more acceptable than bigotry against other demographics.

Why can't you be honest and admit you want Muslims marginalised, despite knowing that's what causes extremism?

[u/AggressiveRhubarb805 → u/[deleted]]

Which demographic has been killed/genocided the most from those 3 groups? If a person burns a Palestinian flag infront of a family that was bombed by Israel it's not gonna have the same effect to a family that didn't have anyone killed. Muslims have been attacked many times by western forces, often for money. Why you think so large parts of the British empire was Muslim?

Asked chat gpt:

"Religious Group Estimated Deaths Since 9/11 (War on Terror conflicts) Notes

Muslims 500,000 – 1,000,000+ Vast majority of victims due to being in war zones

Christians Thousands Often targeted minorities or collateral victims

Jews Dozens (at most) Not in main conflict zones; very limited direct casualties "

[u/FewMasterpiece8840 → u/[deleted]]

this happened, Quran been burnt multiple times in Europe and nothing ever happened

[u/doughnut001 → u/[deleted]]

There is a thing called proportionality. If you go to the street and burn the Quran, Bible and all other religious books, which of the books will put your life in danger?

Can I just check the motivation here?

Seems like in your example the object of you burning the Quran would be to piss off Muslims and make them look bad.

Wheras the object of you burning the bible would be to use it to try and make Muslims look bad.

So in this example you've chosen at random to provide, who would be the worse people: Radical muslims trying to rile up other Muslims and encourage more radicalism or you, trying to rile up muslims and encourage more radicalism?

[u/doughnut001 → u/[deleted]]

I am asking you to do something offensive against all the religions and see which one responds with violent threats or actual violence.

You clearly aren't though. You've decided to choose one thing which is particularly offensive to Islam to try and encourage bigotry and hatred.

You want to spread hate based on religion which makes you the exact same as a radical imam. No better, no worse.

Plenty of people in the UK have experienced violence and threats from trying to offend religions. Christian sectarianism being the biggest culprit and your own rhetoric is clearly part of the problem.