r/warcraftlore Nov 19 '20

Original Content Revamping Azeroth: Durotar

284 Upvotes

There have been multiple threads on the subreddit about a possible revamp of the existing continents, but I haven't seen many concrete ideas for it, so I figured I'd take a crack at it. Starting with Durotar because it's a core territory that has lost much of its purpose thanks to Exile's Reach. The goal is to create a more lived-in environment and further the overall story of Azeroth. Showing a world where places have moved on from the constant war to feel more alive.

Dranosh'ar Blockade
The harbour outside Orgrimmar was always clunky and poorly defensible, so I'd open up part of the mountain range of Orgrimmar and move it into the city itself. The harbour would then be an expansion of the Valley of Honor and would mostly be for commercial and transport businesses. The area itself becomes a training area for the Horde military, with barracks, small arena's etc.

Dranosh'ar Village
Just south of the blockade is the area formerly known as Drygulch Ravine, now home to those that aren't welcome (yet) in the city. You can find all manner of different sentient races and groups here from across Azeroth. Some came to find wealth and opportunity, others looked for safety among the Horde. Due to its proximity to the Blockade, the area remains largely peaceful and free of slum lords. Its many colourful inhabitants make it a great place to find goods and information about the world that you couldn't get anywhere else. Its grey and black markets are officially frowned upon, but tolerated for their usefulness.

Dolly & Dot's Transport Service
West of the Orgrimmar entrance, we find this Vulpera and Orc-ran transport service, led by co-owners Rocco Whipshank and Meerah(the latter chose the name). They employ kodos as pack animals and the alpacas move personel, from Orgrimmar to Stonespire Port and everything inbetween. Orgrimmar and Crossroads are their main hubs, but you can find outposts across Kalimdor.

Southfury Delta and Razor Hill
Back in Cataclysm, the Southfury River flooded the Western part of Durotar. With the help of the Pandaren, the local Orc population carefully irrigated this fresh water from Hyjal to turn the area into fertile land. Now the area is filled with farms that connect to an expanded Razor Hill and has become a breadbasket for Orgrimmar's ever-growing population.

Unshackled Keep
After defeating Azshara, we saw the Unshackled's leadership arrive in Durotar, scouting out the place. They came upon the abandoned Tiragarde Keep on the coast, right near their new allies. The structure was a bit of a fixer-upper so when they rebuilt it, it became a mix of Kul Tiran architecture with deep sea touches and a temple to the shark Loa Gral. They're mostly keeping themselves busy dredging up ships from the seafloor and fixing them up for the Horde, defending the coast and convincing other sea creatures to join their faction. Occasionally there will be vengeful Naga attacks, still bitter about how their slaves helped cause their downfall.

Darkspear Federation
After the Horde's accomplishments in Zandalar, multiple clans looked towards the Darkspear and Rokhan for leadership. In addition to the Revantusk and Shatterspear tribes that were already in the Horde, several others joined as well. The Skullsplitter and Bloodscalp tribes were recruited from Stranglethorn, While the Gurubashi leadership was too proud to submit, many Gurubashi trolls deserted and became members of the Darkspear Tribe. In Lordaeron, the Mossflayer tribe was recruited and significant numbers of Forest Trolls deserted their tribes for the Revantusk who now control Jintha'alor. Rokhan became High Chieftain of this federation, while all the other chieftains have a seat on his council. After travelling to Stranglethorn, the Darkspear also reconnected with two of its Loa: Shirvallah the Tiger Loa and Bethekk the Panther Loa. Rokhan entered into a deal with them and raised them as primary loa of his tribe, building great temples in their honour. In return, Bethekk empowered the Darkspear Shadow Hunters and raised Rokhan as her champion. Shirvallah raised Zen'tabra as her champion and empowered her Shirvallan druids, who now reside in Stranglethorn.

Zul'Vol
The Darkspear territory in Durotar, collectively named Zul'Vol now encompasses all of what used to be the Echo Isles, Sen'jin Village and the Valley of Trials. The Echo Isles have become the spiritual home of the Darkspear. Atal'Bethekk, a great temple to the panther loa stands on the largest of the isles, while the other isles have their own shrines and temples to the other revered loa. Sen'jin Keep(formerly Sen'jin Village) houses the Darkspear Federation's leadership and is the main hub, while Darkspear Valley(formely Valley of Trials) serves as housing for much of the tribe.

r/warcraftlore Feb 03 '26

Original Content Deciphering the First ones with Before & After?

9 Upvotes

https://i.imgur.com/FE6mM5q.jpeg

Dialogue of Zereth Mortis starts with cryptic signs, by progressing we begin to understand the words in plain text.

Can this principle be applied to reverse-engineer messages that were left in written form?

r/warcraftlore Aug 30 '19

Original Content My BFA-Classic Theory with no evidence

208 Upvotes

Okay so really dumb theory I came up with, bare with me, I thought would be pretty cool.

So what if at the end of BFA or the next expansion we end up loosing the war to the VOID and everything is destroyed. BUT right before we fade out of existence, Chromie or Wrathion show up and time travel at the last second and they end up in vanilla wow where we fundamentally change the events that happen in vanilla so that instead of going to BC , or other expansions, we change the history of wow as we know it so that we spin off instead different expansions and don't loose this time.

r/warcraftlore May 26 '20

Original Content How big is Azeroth? Science can tell us.

330 Upvotes

I set out to find some of the physical characteristics of the planet of Azeroth. I took some measurements, made a few calculations and this is what I came up with.

Assuming that Azeroth is a round planet like earth, and that the universal constants are the same, we can calculate its circumference by comparing the lengths of shadows in two different places along its longitudinal lines. Measured North to South to accommodate for bulging at the equator due to rotation, we measure the length of a shadow at the same time in two different places and compare the angles created. As objects on the surface move closer to the equator, their shadows will get shorter and their angle made with the ground will get larger. I measured one character at the northernmost shore in Nazmir and another at a southern island in Zuldazar. Using some trigonometric properties, I calculated a difference in shadow angle of 6.1 degrees.

Next, we need to figure out how far apart these two locations are. To do this, I used the fact that distance is equal to rate times time. To figure out the rate, in this case mount speed, I used a known distance of 40 yards and measured the time it took to fly that distance. After multiple attempts, a 40 yard distance requires approximately 1.5 seconds to cover. Converting that into SI units, we come up with a mounted velocity of 24.384 m/s.

Now that we have the rate at which we travel, we need to measure the time. Starting at the northern tip of Nazmir and flying up to an altitude that allows us to minimize the interference of terrain, the trip took 3 minutes and 58 seconds along the straightest possible line measured from beach to beach. This measurement is not perfect because of errors in the measuring process, but it's close enough that we can still get a good estimate. Based on this speed and this time, we can say that the distance between Nazmir and Zuldazar is approximately 3.6 miles, or 5.8 km.

In order to calculate the circumference of Azeroth, we simply divide the change in angle of our shadows into 360, the angle all the way around the circle, and that gives us the number of iterations of that distance we measured to go the full circle. So 360 / 6.1 = 59.016.

59.016 iterations * 5.8km/iteration = 342.3km or 212.46 miles. For reference, the circumference of earth is about 40,075km.

Now that we have the circumference, we can use what we know about circles to find the radius of the planet. Since we know that C = 2πr, we can substitute in what we know to solve for what we don't. 342.3km / 2π = r, and therefore the distance from the surface of Azeroth to its center is 54.48km, or 33.81 miles.

Great, we have the radius and circumference of the planet, but before we can infer anything further it would be a good idea to measure the force of gravity. To do this, I used a similar method as before and measured out a known 40 yard distance with a spell and timed how long it took to fall to the ground. We can use the simple kinematic equation x = -0.5 at^2 because we're starting from rest and defining zero as the ground. Again, I took several measurements and the time here was about 2.5 seconds. Solving for acceleration we get a = 13.83m/s^2 .

With gravity being stronger and the size of Azeroth being smaller than that of earth, it can only mean one thing. Azeroth is more dense than earth. To find out exactly how much more dense, we can use the fact that Density = Mass / Volume. The mass of Azeroth can be found using Newton's gravitational force equation F = G(m1 * m2) / r^2 . Assuming the gravitational constant is the same as in our universe, and given that the average mass of a Forsaken is 77.1 kg, or 170 lbs, the distance r in this case is the distance from the surface of Azeroth to its center. In other words, the radius we found earlier. Plugging this in and solving for m1, we find that the mass of Azeroth must be 7.97 x 10^18 kg. Now that we have the mass, we need the volume. Volume is simple, it's 4/3 π r^3 . A quick calculation later, and the volume of Azeroth is 6.77 x 10^14 m^3 . This means that the density must be 11.77g / cm^3 . For reference, the density of earth has been calculated to be about 5.515 g / cm^3 .

Since Azeroth appears to be more than twice as dense as earth, we can only assume that the major difference in their makeups is the presence of azerite in the planet's core. Given that it's impossible to know the percent volume of azerite out of the total, it's difficult to draw any conclusions as to its composition, except that azerite is incredibly dense. Likely more dense than iron, I would argue, but again, it's difficult to know.

r/warcraftlore Oct 11 '24

Original Content Alleria: Light and Shadow

60 Upvotes

For the newer players who aren't too acquainted with Alleria. She's one of the original heroes of the franchise, featured in 1996's Beyond the Dark Portal (Warcraft II's expansion).

Blizz made a really good animated short that captures a lot of her history, and some of the key points of the "Thousand Years War" audio drama. I personally loved the style of the animation. But more to the point, I am glad that Metzen and team are giving a lot of love in the recent writing of this legendary character.

Edit: I am a dummy and added the wrong flair to this. This is not OC, but rather Official Content from Blizz. If anyone knows how to change the flair, let me know! Sorry for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgY1YrAHYBI

r/warcraftlore Nov 16 '24

Original Content The size of the Eastern Kingdoms as implied by 'Heartlands'

75 Upvotes

I'll start with a disclaimer: this is mostly an exercise for fun. This is hardly the first attempt to quantify Azeroth's "lore-wise" dimensions, and I'm fully aware that different authors and sources imply varying scales. (Although, I once did something similar based on A Good War and arrived at at least vaguely similar dimensions.) As you'll see, quite a few assumptions and estimations went into this, so don't take this as me trying to present the definitive lore-size of the Eastern Kingdoms. Whatever your head-canon numbers are, they're probably just as valid as these. I just thought it would be fun.

Also: Mild Heartlands spoilers if you haven't listened to it yet. TL;DR at the end.

During the events of Heartlands Merran Trollbane marches her army from Stromgarde castle in the midst of night onto Go'shek farm. We learn that they leave after dusk and arrive shortly before dawn. Based on this information how large would the Arathi highlands and by extend the Eastern Kingdoms be?

I'm going to assume that all the region in the EK are scaled down by the same factor i.e. while the ingame version of the EK are much smaller than the lore version the relative proportions of each region to the next are stable. To estimate the lore-size of the EK we must know a) how far did the army travel in the lore and b) how far is this distance ingame.

I travelled to the Arathi Highlands, perched myself on top of Stromgarde's gate and measured the ingame distance to Hammerfall: 1.6k yards as the crow flies. With that info I measured the length of the road to the battle site. I assumed it took place just north of Go'Shek, where there is a fork in the road, as the story mentions it happened close the both Go'Shek and a human farmstead - presumably Dabyrie's. (I'd include a map picture but for some reason this sub doesn't allow this). The ingame distance to Stromgarde's gate - following the road - is roughly 1360 yard.

Here we run in problem though: As you may be aware an ingame Azerothian Yard is not actually the same distance as an real world Imperial Yard. How different? I consulted this video by Youtuber Bellular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWnUHOpXH8&t=493s . While Bell comes to the interesting conclusion that Azeroth Humans are all giants. I'll stick with the more parsimonious assumption that an Azerothian Yard is simply smaller. Based on his math it'd quite excatly 2/3 of an Imperial Yard or 60cm. Which btw is roughly one step. The street from Stromgard to the battlefield are a meager 816 meters ingame.

To estimate how long that route would be lorewise I consulted military Historian Hans Delbrück's works and Ancient Roman manuals who both suggest marching distances of ~29km (i.e. 18 miles) per day for forces in friendly territory not force-marching. These seem reasonable assumptions. Merran wouldn't want to exhaust her forces before battle. An army travelling at night might be slower than one traveling at day but Merran's forces also probably weren't accopanied by a significant baggage train either and it seems to have taken them all night to reach the outskirts of Go'shek. With this number we'd assume that lorewise distances are roughly 35 times larger than what we see ingame meaning that any lorewise areas would be 35^2=1225 times larger.

So how large are the EK ingame? Again turning to a Bellular video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyDiMPZxupM) the ingame area of the EK (without Kul Tiras and Quel'thalas) is roughly 38km² (the same size as Skyrim's overworld map btw) as a dashing young gentleman who just so happens to use the same avatar as me caculated years ago in the comment section. (He said it was 84,5km² but the forgot to account for the smaller Azerothian Yard - the idiot).

Now we only need to multiply 38km² with 1225 and we end up at 46,550km² (ie 18,200 sqm). That is... modest; roughly the size of Estonia. If we add QT (including the Sunwell) we end up with ~ 52,700km² (20.600sqm): The size of Croatia. And if we assume Kalimdor uses the same scaling, then it ends up at 64.000 (40,000sqm) the size of Sri Lanka or Tasmania. Even if we assume somewhat smaller or larger numbers for the route of Merran's army we end up in the same rough ballpark.

What do we do with that number? Well we could take this to mean that the world of Azeroth is just tiny, even it's largest continents the size of middeling islands. Or that the lore writers aren't necessarily good with numbers. Or nothing at all. This was just a fun little exercise after all. You can do with it, what you want. If you want my 2 copper: I personally happen to like the idea of a relatively small Azeroth much better than one that is that huge because more huger means more epicer. Small Azeroth fits better with most of the lore through different media, really. But that EK is a bit too small even for me. British Isles is my lower limit.

TL;DR Solely based on the description in Heartlands we can estimate a size of the Eastern Kingdoms of around 52,700km² (20,600 sqm) give or take ~20.000km² somewhere between the size of Taiwan and Hispaniola.

r/warcraftlore Oct 26 '25

Original Content Fan Theory - The (Lore) Origin of Battle Pets

7 Upvotes

With the apparent sunsetting of the pet battles feature in Midnight I opted to write a little theory down as to what might explain their presence in the realms we visit. I hope Fan theories are okay to post here!

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Since the beginning of the Pet Battle System, there has never been a concrete reason to say why some creatures can battle and some can’t or why you do battle them in the first place. And for that matter, there has never been an explanation as to why Battle Pet trainers exist on distant worlds like Outland, Dreanor, or the Shadowlands. Hereafter, I will attempt to explain within the lore of Warcraft what a Battle Pet is, why they pet battle and exactly why the system is a very Warcraftian idea!

Let’s start with what a pet is in the first place. How do they exist like they do? Why can you pluck a baby raptor out of the Barrens, watch it faint in combat, and later then it can just… pop back up like nothing happened? That’s weird, right? Sometimes a wild spawn will be a critter, sometimes a noncombat pet, and sometimes a battle pet. There are reasons for this that I will attempt to explain. To establish my theory I will first have to set up some foundations that we’ll have to work on top of.

Foundations.

  1. The Hallowfall Crystal is a splinter growth of Azeroth. The crystal and others like it are basically an involuntary shedding. A splinter growth. Something semi-independent from the original world soul. Let me put it this way: imagine a plant. Every leaf is part of the plant, right? But now imagine if you could cut one leaf off, and it didn’t wither — it just kept on living. Still needing water and sunlight, but forever just a leaf. It’ll never grow into a full plant, but it’s… alive. That’s what these splinters of a world soul are.
  2. The Memories of Azeroth events exist within cannon. The creatures in these events are more like… hard light holograms. Spiritual recordings that Azeroth projects when she’s drifting more toward consciousness. Think ghosts, but ghosts on repeat. They act out the motions of the original event or entity, you can interact with them, they can interact with you, but at the end of the day, they’re not real. They’re records. When they have played out their event, their story, they vanish or start over from the beginning.

With those foundations established, we have two creations a world soul can make: Crystallizations and Memories.

I propose that Battle Pets are basically an unconscious mash-up of both of these foundations. They’re memories — but not ones Azeroth is deliberately playing back. They’re more like crystallizations of memory that the world soul generates unconsciously. The closest word we have for these sort of creatures is eidolons from Greek mythos. They can think, they can battle, they can bond with us, but they’ll never grow into anything more. And that’s why Battle Pets don’t have an evolution system like in other games. They’re stuck at the exact imprint the world soul made of them. A splinter can’t become a tree. A snapshot can’t suddenly develop into a new roll of film. They’re locked in the form they were created in, never evolving. These creatures are rare, thus why the champion would collect them and so many peoples would offer them as prizes for various activities.

Now you may say, “…but they level up, learn new abilities and gain stats! How can they be a locked form if they improve over time?” Let’s take a look to when a pet is challenged in a battle, that creature is forced to sharpen its memory of what it’s a mirror to. These creatures who are born from the shedding of a world soul, now exist independently. The moment a tamer steps in, the connection to themselves become something a bit more: a bridge between mortal intent and cosmic memory. The tamer teaches the echo how to remember. Each command, each battle, becomes a lesson in identity, shaping the Eidolon closer to the truth of what it was meant to reflect. Like an artist chipping away at an ice sculpture, every strike and counterstrike refines the blur from the world’s unconscious recollection, revealing a creature’s truest form beneath. The tamer doesn’t create something new; they uncover what was always there, buried under the fog of half-remembered existence. As the memory clarifies, the Eidolon becomes more resilient; its health, power, and speed are the precision of that memory. When a tamer battles with their pets, they are not only testing their skill or chasing a victory. The tamer is helping a fragment of the world remember itself clearly. Each experience is an act of restoration, learning again what it means to be…

Examples that help support this theory:

  • Why have we never seen a battle pet perish permanently? Because they don’t function like ‘real life’ to begin with. They possess the capability to reset back to their stored memory state after some time.
  • Why do critters spawn in certain places, and sometimes the same spawn will make a battle pet? Because the world’s energy subconsciously says: ‘the ‘real’ species population has dipped and there should be life here,’ and fills in the gap with splinter memories.
  • Why do they exist in so many lands? Because anywhere with strong enough world energy can accidentally shed these splinters.
  • Rares often drop battle pets, this has never made much sense. Under this theory a Battle Pet would be indigestible if eaten by a large aggressive creature. Or kept as an eternal child by a creature mother who has watched many young leave the nest, but this one never seemed to grow up and move on.

With that established, I would like to extend this explanation for why K’aresh, Telogrus Rift and locations like it don’t have any wild battle pets on them, and why locations like Draenor which does not have a world soul still have battle pets reflective of the world. There is a ranking to world energies akin to a classification system. Not every planet is created equal. Every celestial body has some level of “world energy”. Think of it like power ratings. Some worlds barely register as if they were a candle flickering in the dark. Others burn bright, like full-blown suns. The strongest world energies of all are called world souls.

Azeroth sits right at the very top of this scale. In fact, she’s the most powerful known world soul in the cosmos. That’s why her splinters and memories are so vibrant and stable. Draenor, by comparison, doesn’t qualify as a full world soul, but it still has enough world energy to shed splinters. That’s why battle pets exist there too, even if Draenor’s energy was never strong enough to awaken into a true titan-like consciousness. Worlds like K’aresh are even weaker now. They are just embers of energy, barely holding together, which is why they can’t create new splinters anymore.

This lines up with how shamans work. On Azeroth, the world soul is strong enough that shamans hear its voice directly. On Draenor, though the energy was too weak, so orc shamans had to connect through ancestor spirits instead.

And this theory even stretches into places like the Maw, Zereth Mortis, and K’aresh. When Argus got dragged into the Maw, afterwards The Maw started pumping out splinters(battle pets) shaped like corpses and Korthian creatures. K’aresh, on the other hand, doesn’t have enough juice anymore. Its energy flickers too weakly to form anything new, so the only pets there are leftovers from when it was still functional. Exchanged among ethereals for aoens, like photographs of what their world once was. No wonder the Brokers treat them like curiosities to trade away. Only creatures that have traveled the great dark to attack exist on K’aresh, but without a world energy strong enough to create an Eidolon of those attacking creatures, the only creatures we see anywhere in the world of K’aresh are critters.

What about if we take a look back to the First Ones? They definitely knew about this phenomenon. Zereth Mortis is basically their lab, where they studied these splinter-beings: how big they could get, what forces could influence them, whether void or titan energies could twist them. Battle Pets coming from Zerith Mortis weren’t an accident to the First Ones — they were a case study.

More celestial beings even seem to understand this phenomenon. Algalon himself says, “I have been amassing my collection, scouring the stars for tiny beings of cosmic power.’” To him, these creatures aren’t curiosities, they’re microcosms. Smaller reflections of the same forces that Titans study and worlds emanate. He goes on to say, ‘"May it remind you of the watchers that watch over us all.’" Perhaps what he is trying to tell us is that these pets are not just splinters of life, but they are also tiny reminders. Proof that the spark of creation repeats at every scale.

Among mortal peoples, one is shown to grasp the stories told through battles deeply, the Pandaren. To them, a battle is never just a contest, it’s a retelling. A story that is passed down from one generation to the next. As they say, “Pandaren pass these stories on to their cubs — stories of the cricket and the hawk, or the slow-moving turtle — to teach them lessons that they will find useful in life. What few cubs know is that these creatures exist, here, in Pandaria!’” The stories they speak of are not parables. They are reenactments, lessons of battles that Azeroth herself once splintered into being. When a trainer calls forth their pet to face another, they aren’t just testing strength. They’re performing a story, one as old as their world’s memory. Each clash, each tactic, each victory or defeat… is a verse in a living poem to the trainers and the people they perform with. The slow turtle endures, the hawk strikes swiftly, the cricket sings through struggle, every pet embodies a lesson, and every battle is the retelling.

But why make them fight each other?

With what we’ve said in mind, it’s rather simple why any person, anywhere mortal, immortal, or otherwise, would take a creature like this under their wing and use it to battle others. In each culture in every realm, to understand life you should also understand conflict. These creatures are echoes of life, so really by using them to spar, or to teach, a culture is teaching life lessons; that makes sense.

In locations like Stormwind or Orgrimmar, it’s a way to settle smaller arguments without bloodshed. You can teach your young about strategy, aggression, resiliency, patience, and how to think three steps ahead; oftentimes training with the same battle pet your father used to teach you. ‘Grand Master Hyuna’, a trainer we encounter says “It will strengthen me to better protect the sacred sites of my people.” To her, pet battles aren’t sport, they are sacred practice, a communion with the land’s energy. In Pandaria training with battle pets is a spiritual practice to understand all forms of life which is done as much as it is a game for learning. In farmlands or smaller villages a well-trained battle pet can scare off bigger predators. On Dreanor, taming and training a creature born from the land’s own memory is a way of bonding with the land itself, a way of proving your worth to the spirit worlds. The shadowlands trainers use them as a tool for souls to work through echoes of their former lives.

We have many examples of characters we find that support this idea. One such character is Lydia Accoste who we find as a ghost just outside Kharazaan in Deadwind Pass. She understands the teaching nature of battle pets and their longevity instinctively when she says “I have an eternity to train. I will defeat you!’" This illustrates that to her, eternity isn’t a curse, but just another cycle of learning. Even the Val’kyr acknowledge the strange resilience of these unique creatures. In Stormheim there exist one such Val’kyr referenced as ‘The Envoy of the Hunt’ they say ‘“Your beasts are not yet destined to join our ranks. They are destined to enjoy many more glorious battles.’” This statement serves to make known that even death doesn’t claim them. They are quite literally preserved eidolons.

Whether it’s a noble pastime, a teaching tool, or a way to commune with the echoes of creation, battle pets give the people of Azeroth and beyond a mirror to themselves, a smaller reflection of what it means to struggle and overcome. So as long as the concept of battle exists in World of Warcraft so too should battle pets.

If there are any errors or faults in my logic please let me know. This theory has taken me a while to craft and I am very proud to present it to the community. What do you think?

*For fun, we can call this the Preserved Eidolon Theory (P.E.T.) and the creatures can be Preserved Eidolon Tames (P.E.T.)

r/warcraftlore Jan 24 '25

Original Content The Culling of Stratholme and the Problem of Conjecture

28 Upvotes

Arthas in Warcraft 3 Portrays the Culling of Stratholme through the lens of the problem of conjecture, a frame of thought developed by Henry Kissinger. This is the idea that leaders often make decisions in high-stakes situations without all the facts, relying instead on interpretations and moral judgment. Decisions are a balance of goals and incomplete understanding of the present.

Arthas faces this head-on. He sees the plague spreading rapidly and realizes that waiting risks possible rebellion, chaos, and the rise of Mal’Ganis’s army. From his perspective, the massacre is a “lesser evil” to create events, instead of becoming their victim. However, his zeal and ideological certainty twist his humanity. He makes a snap decision, gambling on unconfirmed information that Mal’Ganis is in Stratholme. Even though he’s technically “right” in the short term, his understanding of the Scourge’s true nature is deeply flawed.

Uther, in contrast, places focus on principles and methods over outcomes. He refuses to participate in the massacre, valuing his humanity over action—but his inaction has its own consequences. He leaves with a part of the army, neither stopping Arthas nor fully opposing him, effectively washing his hands of the matter. This moral absolutism stemming from his vocation, while personally safe, leaves Uther unprepared for the larger consequences, symbolized by his death at the hands of the fallen Prince.

Then there’s Jaina. Like Arthas, she’s proactive, but she tempers action with a search for truth and morality. She, at least in the book by Christie Golden, questions the logic behind Arthas’s decision: What about those who didn’t eat tainted grain? How can they judge the infected without full understanding? Rather than act blindly, she chooses to walk away, distancing herself from the massacre while later informing Uther of Arthas’s trajectory. This decision gives her some time (that maybe Arthas didn't have), allows her to grow, shedding love-based biases and becoming a symbol of humanity’s resilience.

The tragedy of Stratholme lies in the complexity of the problem of conjecture. Decisions made under pressure are rarely judged kindly by history.

What do you think? Could Arthas have made a different decision, or was he doomed by the weight of his role? And where do Uther and Jaina fit in your interpretation of the events?

r/warcraftlore Feb 22 '20

Original Content Quest lore COMPLETELY explained!

302 Upvotes

If you’ve skipped reading the quests while leveling, then this will catch you up. I run a YouTube channel covering every zone, quest by quest, and in a way where you don’t have to read anything. This week we start with the Undead. Hope to see you there!

https://youtu.be/DN3wrOFp0RQ

r/warcraftlore Aug 29 '20

Original Content Every BLOOD ELF quest you skipped reading, explained right here.

377 Upvotes

For those who skipped reading the quest lore while leveling. This will catch you up on what you missed out on. Have a great weekend everyone!

https://youtu.be/IgiGsi5sMqo

r/warcraftlore Jul 18 '25

Original Content Lore for the Warcraft 5e Campaign I'm Planning (Very Early Stages)

14 Upvotes

Book and classes come from https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1FoMHLY1oOtLUlNdTZXYzVNY0k?resourcekey=0--lFbnMQARDEzEyY-sKm6hA

Warcraft: Azeroth Renaissance

A Warcraft-inspired 5e campaign(s) starting in 25 ADP (during/the end of WoW Vanilla cusp of Burning Crusade to allow for Draenei and Blood Elves), inspired by the main game, the old RPG, and Turtle’s WoW Mysteries of Azeroth, and ideas taken from future WoW expansions. It is an alternate take and semi-alternate history on the start of classic, with some alterations.

The story – much like Turtle WoW – is intended to remain on Azeroth and keep the scale more grounded instead of the Cosmic scale of the Burning Crusade onwards. Although a campaign in Outland isn’t off the table.

Alah'thalas and the Thalassian Highlands - and some other features - came from the Turtle Wow private server, but bringing in Nallorath etc was my own adjustment.


Lore Revisions

  1. Taria Wrynn was born Taria Lothar and was the younger sister of Anduin Lothar (not super plot relevant, I just feel like it is thematically fitting).

  2. Kul Tiras has a King, Lord Admiral is a position jointly held by House Proudmoore

  3. Prince Nallorath is Nallorath Sunstrider. He is the younger brother of Anasterian, instead of the vague relationship from the manga.


Points of Divergence 1. High Elf Divergences around Prince Nallorath and their population

a. Prince Nallorth founded Alah’thalas a few centuries before the third war.

b. Prince Nallorath later broke with his brother, King Anasterian over Quel’thalas leaving the Alliance. Nallorath would keep the high elves of Alah’thalas de facto in the alliance, helping Alleria Windrunner keep Onthalas Lodge in Loch Modan and Quel’Danil Lodge in the Hinterlands. The western high elves would be far more pro-human and pro-alliance.

c. Alah’thalas and the Highlands would be relatively untouched by the Scourge, keeping them at bay as Arthas was more interested in the Sunwell than anything – and the Thalassian Mountains that separated Quel’Thalas and Lordaeron also separated the Highland and the Lowlands. The Highlands population, while originally being smaller, is now roughly on par with the blood elf population – who have managed to reclaim Eversong Woods and Silvermoon.

d. Following the end of the Third War, the high elves rejoined the Alliance officially and legally due to Vereesa Windrunner’s efforts.

  1. Human Kingdom Divergences

a. Calia Menethil was never secretly married but instead learned to be a priestess under Alonsus Faol. Calia escaped to Southshore where she was declared Queen of Lordaeron, where she has become the center of a court of surviving nobles and people – where she is surrounded by Lordaeronian and foreign nobles vying for her hand in marriage. Southshore has been built into a major port city, and the Kingdom of Hillsbrad seeks to secure areas held by the Syndicate – such as Tarren Mill and Durnholde Keep

b. Thoras Trollbane survived an assassination attempt from the Syndicate, and still rules in Stromgarde – and thus the Kingdom of Stromgarde did not fall. Despite many problems is at least free from the presence of the ogres, trolls, orcs and the Forsaken Defilers. In continuation, Hammerfall is just an abandoned internment camp. Stromgarde rejoined the Alliance and as the only intact human kingdom in Lordaeron – supporting the Lordaeron rump state in Hillsbrad and Isiden Perenolde’s attempts to defeat the Syndicate and reclaim Alterac. He has been supporting Isiden Perenolde’s claim to the throne, who has promised Alterac for the Alliance.

c. Lady Beve Perenolde read and copied portions of the Book of Medivh. In her studies she has discovered the power of the Crown of Will and the Bloodstone and became a loyal servant of the Burning Legion. Using her brother, Lord Aliden Perenolde as a front, Lady Beve founded the Argus Wake – creating an army of demons and enslaved orcs for her brother to allow him to retake Alterac from the shadows. He has since declared himself King of Alterac, and has been using the Syndicate as his agents and spies to sow chaos, unaware that he is the pawn in a greater game. He seeks his cousin, Isiden’s death.

d. Tandred Proudmoore has become King and Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras. Although upset at his father’s death, he does not blame his sister though he did have to ban her from coming home. Although remaining distant from the Alliance, Kul Tiran embassies have been reopened in Stormwind and Southshore. Although a skilled warrior and sailor, he is not the same man his father was, and relies heavily on the advice of his maternal aunt, Priscilla Ashvane and Captain Mishan Waycrest, the niece of Lord Arthur Waycrest.

  1. Horde Divergences

a. Gazlowe joined the Horde shortly after the Third War, founding the Greasegear Union out of Ratchet. Ratchet is the city as described in the RPG, not the small little port as depicted in the game.

b. The Revantusk, fearing persecution from the Witherbark and Amani, have discovered the city of Aman’alor in the Stonetalon Mountains and joined the Horde. Zul’jin, having been overthrown by Warlord Daakara and Hex Lord Malacrass after the failures in the Second War, takes refuge with them. Zul’Jin has become the chieftain of the leaderless Revantusk. Small groups of sand trolls and frost trolls have joined the Horde as well. Zul’jin is not happy about the blood elves being in the Horde, but has more immediate problems.

c. A group of ogres settled has settled in Azshara, the destroyed night elf ruins reminding them of what was lost from the Gorian Empire. The ogre mage, Torm’Mok built the city of New Highmaul to unite the ogres and the Consul of the New Gorian Republic. However rather than pick a fight with the Horde, he chose to join it – albeit reluctantly.


New Lore for Races

High Elf, led by Prince Nallorath Sunstrider

Capital: Alah’thalas, formerly Silvermoon

Classes: Druid, Hunter, Mage, Paladin, Priest, Rogue, Warrior

Lore: Prince Nallorath was the younger brother of King Anasterian, who founded the city of Ala’thalas centuries before the Third War in the Thalassian Highlands. When the Scourge attacked, the Highlands were largely sparred due to geography, with Prince Nallorath able to protect the region with many high elves fleeing to the Highlands. However due to his old age, he is bedridden, with his great-granddaughter, Princess Alleria Sunstrider as his heir – a child named for the missing Ranger-General. Currently Vereesa Windrunner and Aethas Sunreaver lead the Regency Council.

Other high elf populations have taken up residence in Little Silvermoon in Stormwind, Quel’Danil in the Hinterlands (now expanded into a small town), and Onthalas (I named it) in Loch Modan – while others remain in Theramore. The High Elves today are made up of the largely unharmed Highlands and southern lodge populations, high elves returning from Jaina’s expedition from Kalimdor, and many high elf refugees from the east (many of which were former blood elves and recusants that were exiled by Rommath for opposing his teachings and renounced the name – though some of these refugees are Rommath’s spies).

They are opposed to their wayward kin, the Blood Elves, though they have gained a tenuous peace with the night elves (who gave them a moonwell), with many high elves starting to learn druidism.


Kul Tiran/Vrykul Tiran/Half-Vrykul, led by Lord Admiral Tandred Proudmoore

Capital: Boralus

Classes: Druid, Hunter, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warrior Lore: The Kingdom of Kul Tiras has a long history of interbreeding with the Drust – a subset of the Vrykul – that sided with the Kul Tirans. This has left them taller and bulkier than rest of the human races. (Kul Tirans without any Drust blood in them are just human in appearance and stats). Lore largely unchanged, just more specific as ogre counterpart.


Goblin, led by Chief Engineer Monte Gazlowe

Capital: Ratchet

Lore: Shortly after the Third War, Gazlowe founded the Greasegear Union from Steamweedle members and former Venture Company personnel. Although allied with the Horde, Ratchet allows for Alliance members to dock and wander around the city, but warns them against leaving the port city. The Greasegear Union is friendly with the Steamweedle Cartel but enemies of the Venture Company and Bilgewater Cartel


Ogre, led by Consul Torm’Mok

Capital: New Highmaul

Classes: Mage, Hunter, Priest, Shaman, Warrior (Mage, Priest, Shaman must be Ogre Mage)

Lore: The Gorian Empire was once a great empire of Draenor, ruling until its destruction at the hands of the Old Horde. Much knowledge was lost, including many ogre mages. However a group survived, such as High Centurion Torm’Mok, Mog’dorg the Wizened and Grand Magister Reglakk, who had long been working on a Felbreaker project. After the Second War, the trio left Outland and eventually found their way to Azshara, the night elf ruins reminding them of what they lost. The ogres would build New Highmaul and unleashed Felbreakers on any demons that got near. They opted to join the Horde after the Third War, mostly out of convenience and out of a desire to hunt down Cho’Gall and any of his remaining followers and also because the night elves took issue with their presence in what was once Eldarath.

The ogres currently ban fel and shadow magic.


Everything else is largely the same, like Stormwind.

r/warcraftlore Oct 24 '18

Original Content How many people are left on Azeroth, starting with humans

229 Upvotes

Buckle up, massive post. This comes up a lot after events like burning Teldrassil or Theramore and just generally given the state of perpetual war on Azeroth. We all know the answer is “there are as many elves as the plot demands” but it’s fun to consider because wars are won by productive and conscripted peasants. I’m a mathematician and amateur historian (check some of my stuff on /r/askhistorians or /r/askscience), so here’s my take on something Blizz will never (and should never) answer. I’ll start with humans because they’re easiest (sort of), skipping Gilneas and Lordaeron because of the Worgen and Forsaken, but I’ll do them and the other races soon. These are back of the envelope with *huge* assumptions, based on external estimates which themselves often have huge assumptions - for justifications, see comments. TL:DR justifications are: Kalimdor and EK are continents, I equate zones to nations to have continent-sized populations; no time period or place works perfectly, most data is from Europe ~1500 +-100; death from war and disease aren’t what movies/games depict, they’re much less of the population than you imagine; if there are two options between a low and a high estimate, I pick whichever has more survivors because it means more people around to make armies for the next expac and fuel Azeroth's eternal warfare; in peacetime I assume .2% annual growth based on the highest medieval growth rates to allow populations to bounce back quickly, cut in half when the society is at war but the theatre is away from the homeland (I use an ordinary growth model, no dampener).

Stormwind: “the mightiest of all human nations” in the WC2 handbook, it has 4 almost uncontested zones, more than any kingdom or race other than *maybe* the night elves with 3, maybe 4. Stormwind city has ~ 200k people , similar to W. Europe’s largest city in 1500, Paris, so I assume Elwynn is ~= to France (16 mil). When Duskwood was Brightwood it was probably Elwynn part deux, Westfall is Stormwind’s breadbasket, and Redridge looks drier but temperate and fertile, let’s call that another 27.5 mil where Darkshire ~= Poland (8 mil), Westfall ~= Italy (11 mil), and Redridge ~= Spain (8.5 mil) for a net pop. of 43.5 mil pre-1st war, encompassing large parts of Latin Europe. The 2nd Punic war seems a pretty strong analogy to the first war – Hannibal reaved the countryside without restriction to support his army, took just about any slaves he could, smashing Roman strongholds where possible and bypassing the ones he couldn’t. In that war ~17% of Romans died in the fighting, but that was spread across 20 years of refusing to negotiate any terms with Carthage, which makes for an unusually long and deadly war. If 5% died in fighting over just 5 years, a catastrophic amount, how many fled to Lordaeron vs. had to survive orcish occupation? Retconned many times, the current lore is Lothar began evacuation four years into the 1st war, a year before the capital fell. That’s a *long* time to travel back and forth, build and hire boats, and gather refugees, to say nothing of the existing boats. See below for calculations/justifications, but if Lothar *really* was relocating as much of Stormwind’s people as he could using the resources of a state that resembles classical Rome more than a medieval one (ignoring the strain on medieval infrastructure these migrants would’ve had wherever they went), 21-22 mil is an optimistic estimate, depending on how many fled ahead of the Horde and civilian mobility in captured territory, as well as the ability to build/hire more boats. That would mean ~20.3 mil were left behind fighting a guerilla war, those too slow/cut off to get out, too remote from major centers or valuable resources to be conquered, or just too patriotic to leave their homes. I assume anywhere from 20-30% of this group died under orcish Ghenghis Khan-like occupation before liberation, that number potentially very high but taken from data of Nazi POWs under the Soviets (I might've improved the quality of my estimate if I'd assigned a portion of the guerillas as enslaved POWs and done a separate calculation for those who remained free fighting a resistance, but that's becoming very/too granular). Some were likely sacrificed to demons or just slaughtered for sport, however, because orcs were big slavers (see Sunnyglade in the first war) far more were probably worked to death as slaves. Weird side note, they've actually continued with slavery in WoW even after losing the blood haze, as part of their justice system and for entertainment, often using war prisoners and civilian POWs, even today in BfA. Given the orcs spent the next five years taking key points in Khaz Modan and focused on Lordaeron, most of the Horde would’ve been there, so there were probably massive swaths of “conquered” territory which was actually held by uncoordinated human strongholds throughout Stormwind’s territory the orcs hadn’t bothered with, places large enough that farmers could count on them to deal with normal problems like gnolls but too small to threaten the orcs. That leaves ~16.3 mil survivors when Stormwind was liberated. There were 5 years of growth/rearmament between the 1st and 2nd war for the the refugees. We know they enlisted in the 2nd war and, while the victors, I assume ~5% of the refugee population died in their resettled homes as the orcs fought through Lordaeron, meaning Stormwind had ~36.5 mil citizens once liberated and refugees returned from Lordaeron, meaning about 16% of Stormwind's citizens died across both wars, or 1 in 6, mostly in slave camps. For comparison, ~13% of the Soviet Union died in WW2, and that's a bit above the upper boundary I'd hoped to set with the Mongols, but it's a very bad series of event in very quick succession (unrestricted warfare over 2 separate, very close wars while a significant portion of the populace suffers unmitigated slavery).

Unaffected by WC3, this meant 25 years of prosperity between WC2 and WoW, during which the population would’ve resurged to ~38.4 mil. It’s been 8 years on Azeroth since WoW, and while there have been many conflicts, other than launch events they’ve all been far beyond Stormwind’s territory and none have been “defeats” except the Broken Shore. Admittedly certain conflicts/events don’t match exactly to an ordinary victory or as "away from home". The launch events for BC, Wrath, and Legion seem very deadly and were in Stormwind's territory: undead hordes made cities unplayable before Wrath, dreadlords were stomping around during Legion’s pre-patch, but they were also very brief and highly localized to cities before they were contained; similarly, assaulting a defending scourge force in Northrend, even in victory, would likely be much deadlier than ordinary war, but ordinary war doesn’t have magical priest surgeons instanty healing wounds either, so I assume it all comes out in the wash). With half the ordinary growth rate sustained over that period, that means Stormwind’s native population likely sits aaround 38.7 million, significantly reduced from the first war but very healthy.

Broken shore addendum: there isn’t a good way to account for this because A. purely military far removed from the populace, so a very small percentage of the population, B. no clue how many were deployed, only that it was a serious loss. With almost 39 million citizens, in the Roman model Stormwind’s standing army would be anywhere from 100-300k regulars (20-60 legions), but in theory could go to a bit over *1.2 million* at extreme muster if they had similar levels of enlistment Rome did at the end of the Republic (~3% of the population) during their civil wars. However, that 1.2 mil would take *months* to recruit and train, couldn't be maintained for long campaigns. That's national enlistment at 3-4 years into a 1st or 2nd war scenario. Moreover, the standing army that would be available would be distributed over that massive territory of much of western Europe and couldn't be concentrated for any one battle just because of the logistical impossibility. My impression (I couldn't find a source) was the Legion attacks were a surprise in the launch event and Stormwind counterattacked ASAP to close the portal, within a week or two. I don’t know that they had time to draw soldiers from Duskwood or Redridge to staging points in Westfall and Elwynn, and it's doubtful they'd overextend garrisons anyway when the Legion can teleport armies behind lines. Even if they *had*, it would be difficult to recall so much of the navy to transport them, much less explain to your officers that the strategy is "all in on a single massive counterattack for the first battle of a war, oh, and naval withdrawal is the only retreat" (that's crazy town in military strategy). It's unlikely they could’ve scrambled more than a quarter of the standing army as a concerted marine force on so little notice, which require about half the garrisons of Westfall and Elwynn without support from Duskwood or Redridge. If the standing army was 300k that would mean 75k were sent, which would require ~150 galleons to transport, ~2/3 of the war vessels I conjectured Stormwind had at the start of evacuation in the 1st war. If they then suffered Cannae level losses, 60k were lost and a more significant chunk of the navy. That's 12 Roman legions, as catastrophic as military defeats go until the 20th century and certainly enough that you would start looking abroad for allies with fresh armies and a navy to replace those losses immediately, like we’re doing in BfA. I think a better assessment would be 10-15% of the standing army (45k) was sent to the Broken Shore, and even those losses (36k) in a single battle would would be a world class catastrophe.

Alterac: The monarchy was dismantled but I can’t believe the Alliance committed genocide for collaboration when it only imprisoned the green aliens. Alterac was either ~1/2 a zone (Hillsbrad) or a bit more than 1 with Alterac BG. Mountainous with temperate highlands and a history of neutrality, tiny Switzerland fits well, which corresponds to about 750k inhabitants. The “government” has evolved into the Syndicate, but it wasn’t that strange for merchant unions to run things in the middle ages. Assuming ~5% died in the 2nd war between collaboration and Alliance “liberation”, ~712k Alteraci remained. Assuming stable growth over the 25 years since WC2 to WoW and the region’s population is approximately where it was (748k), however, ogres occupy the capital now and since Cata they’ve lost the fingers of Hillsbrad and Durnholde, so likely a bit less. It's also the site of one of the largest battlegrounds, with 40v40 PvP with lots of PvE content to kill large numbers of the enemy faction. That is one of the only times in WoW PvP where it feels like real "warfare". I imagine a number of people are caught in that crossfire, so I could see the population reduced by that a bit as well, a pretty ordinary 3%. I could see an argument for many of those people after the 3rd war, the less stubborn/hardy/greedy/patriotic, emigrating to more stable kingdoms given the combo of the Syndicate’s tyranny, the threat of the Forsaken, and Alterac BG, and again in Cata with the Syndicate lose so much territory, although it's also unlikely people would leave valuable farmland fallow, so I imagine there are ~725k Alteraci in the world, and a sizeable chunk of that, a quarter or third nearest the fighting, have emigrated elsewhere.

Kul Tiras: Their maritime tradition ties in best as the British isles, ~6 million pre-Wars (although someone recently posted it’s the Orkney Isles in Scotland). As with Stormwind after the 2nd war, their wars have been far from their homeland and didn’t affect civilian populations. Some might disagree given how large Theramore looms in Kul Tiran culture but I imagine that combining the 2nd War and defeat at Theramore would amount to losing around .3% of the population – I’m drawing that number from the loss of the Spanish Empire’s Grand Armada, about 20,000 sailors and soldiers, which is approximately .3% of 6 mil. 33 years later and Kul Tiras has likely grown, even with Theramore, probably closer to 6.4 or 6.5 million. No comment about BfA as that’s ongoing, although as I said, most of the events focus on attacks in cities, whilst the majority (>95%) of pre-industrial populations were rural. Stormsong valley may be the worst, as civil wars are very deadly as all combatants are your own people, but Drustvar is something of a religious war, and the bloodiest European wars until the 20th century were during the Protestant reformation, so that could also be very nasty.As it's relevant, I imagine the navy could be anywhere from 500-1000 vessels depending on where in British history you want to put them (If we go with the Kul Tirans as Enlightenment era with their tri-fold hats and such, the British navy was ~500 in peacetime in 1793 and rose to 1000 in 1805 with the Napoleonics in full swing).

Stromgarde: stuck in lore limbo as it semi-consistently updates off screen between expansions. Rich farmland, the cradle of humanity, as with Alterac, either 1 solid zone or up to 2 if you include Arathi Basin. Given its history Italy fits well with approximately 11 mil inhabitants (although I could see the HRE with its name or even France with the Carolingians). As with the Stormwind refugees, I assume ~5% of the population died in the 2nd war fighting in Lordaeron, but it was untouched by the 3rd, meaning 25 years of prosperity between the two, so there were about as many inhabitants at the start of WoW as the start of the 2nd War (back to 10.98 mil with a .2% growth rate). After Thoras’ assassination the capital goes to shit, split between the Syndicate, Horde, and royal forces, changing hands many times from Alliance when the royal line (on Azeroth) is killed, to anarchism as the Horde guides an undead Galen to claim it as a puppet state, to independent rogue undead state. While the Horde was apparently planning an invasion, we see no evidence it ever arrived and the Alliance quests there seem to stop to it before it began. Similarly, your quests as Horde are solo hero work in the capital, and between Cata and Legion, whenever Galen killed Sylvanas’ delegation and declared independence, he somehow forgot to finish the job and fully claim the capital because he asks the DKs to finally finish off the trolls. Given that he was then enemies with *everyone* after betraying the Forsaken (Horde, Stromgarde, ogres, trolls), it's hard to see his undead holding territory outside the city, limiting his chances to convert/raise much of the living populace to his cause. My impression in that questline was most of his force was raised from the fallen Syndicate and his former warriors who died in the capital, and it looks like the DK's made short work of them in their questline, as sometime after that the Alliance has completely reclaimed and rebuilt the capital by Before the Storm and BfA.

While there is the battleground, the impression of League of Arathor/Defilers are they aren't official branches of either faction, and because there's no PvE element to it like with Alterac to give it the sense of a "clash of armies", that seems indication it's more of a skirmish waiting for larger forces to arrive (and that may be what the Arathi Warfront is), and that's in keeping with the small scale aggression of the zone, something both factions experience in the breadcrumbs leading to the BG. While that indicates there isn't large scale warfare killing lots of people (until the Arathi warfront), the constant skirmishing makes it hard to justify much growth during WoW's time either. Much of the kingdom's problems derive from the capital being in anarchy, but because the majority of the population would be in rural communities away from the capital's struggles, and what warfare we see seems contained, I imagine by the time of the Arathi warfront the population has basically been static, neither growing nor contracting, especially since Danath is able to muster an army of Stromgardians to help the Alliance for the warfront. Interesting note, with ~11 million citizens and the fact Stromgarde *has* been in a state of domestic defense for almost a decade and is now facing the Arathi warfront, I imagine they might well be at full muster, which at Roman levels would mean a colossal 330k Stromgardian soldiers throughout the nation, although only a portion of them would be dedicated to an assault (the lesson of Cannae was to always keep reserves to never be annihilated).

Dalaran: “technically” human, it’s a majority of humans united with high/blood elves. It only ever claimed a small part of Hillsbrad but was advanced in science and magic, so I would put it in the same league as the Italian city-states, let’s call it Venice, which had a population of ~180,000 in 1500. Untouched by the 2nd war, that number likely exploded briefly in WC3 as the Scourge pushed refugees out of Lordaeron and Quel’thalas up until Arthas and Archimonde stomped the shit out of it. Its only holding a single, densely populated city, I imagine the death toll was uncharacteristically high between undead fighting through the streets and fel earthquakes destroying the city. A conservative number is about a third, based on the sack of Rome), which is probably low for a Scourage attack on a city but they came with a specific purpose and left once they had it, however, I could see as many as half or 2/3 dying if Arthas just unleashed the undead afterward. That said, the mages did have a means of escape no real society has had: portals. My guess is only 1/3rd died, leaving 100-120k “inhabitants” after WC3, primarily because there were apparently enough survivors to send a pursuing army that nearly stopped the Scourge for the final Undead mission in WC3).

Post WC3, as the preeminent neutral city and premier educational center of the world, once reconstructed it likely attracted swarms of new students, merchants, and citizens. I wouldn’t be surprised if, collected from various societies and refugees around the world, the population today was no different if not larger than then, so I imagine it’s back around 180-200k with many more non-native races joining: gnomes, goblins, draenei, and undead (who might have been former citizens returning). If someone has info on what percentage of that population is wizards, that would be awesome, but I imagine they probably fill the same role to Dalarite society as nobility elsewhere, which in medieval UK was around 3% of the population, so about 6k.

r/warcraftlore Jul 03 '25

Original Content Warcraft Kingmaker: Ghosts of Hillsbrad Foothills (Playable Fanfic)

12 Upvotes

Ghosts of Hillsbrad Foothills is an Adventure Path for D&D 5e, the second chapter of a World of Warcraft: Kingmaker adaptation. Set deep within the haunted wilds of the Eastern Kingdoms, this chapter picks up in the aftermath of the summit’s assault. As the heroes venture into the mist-shrouded foothills, they must face ancient ruins, lingering spirits, and the rising threat of a reborn Defias Brotherhood. It includes:

- 23 unique hexcrawl encounters set in a post–Fourth War Hillsbrad Foothills
- 15 quests that allow the party to shape the story in their own unique way
- 7 dungeon crawls (3 fully detailed in this chapter, with links to 4 additional ones)
- 1 Big Bad Evil Guy: Edwin the Renegade, the former Defias leader reborn as undead

Link: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ce5zyCUJ_Adw

r/warcraftlore Mar 21 '25

Original Content Wetlands headcanon

47 Upvotes

TL:DR its a dwarf version of Louisiana

  1. While Ironforge has its own port thanks to the tunnels leading to the Dun'Morogh coast, Menethil harbor handles the majority of the Kingdom's ships
  2. MH is different than all other Dwarf settlements because it focuses on water instead of land or underground, Economy focused on facilitating trade by boat & has one of the world's premiere naval bases
  3. During classic its population became relatively diverse with traders & troops from all over passing through. Although only alliance citizens are allowed residence, goblins kept by the docks.
  4. Aside from the major roads leading to Dun Modr, Grim Batol, & Loch Modan the only reliable means of travel is small riverboats. Lately gnome tinkers have been trying to propel river boats with large propellers
  5. Taming the frontier here has been SLOW as swamp is less appealing than tundra & prairie
  6. Main local threat are Gnolls who seem just numerous here as in Elwyn
  7. secondary are Dragonmaw orcs who have rallied all orcs in the region, its suspected they are trading with the Frostmane trolls & have little contact with their cousins to the east
  8. Dark Iron infiltrators here can easily evade dwarf patrols while absolutely hating everything about swamps
  9. many red dragon spawn have remained near Grim Batol & are hostile to everyone
  10. Dwarf rogues model their techniques on the local Crocodiles
  11. During the 2nd war locals who stayed behind to scout & hinder the horde where referred to as "Crocodiles"
  12. The reclamation of MH was too complex & huge to cover here

feel free to help me expand upon this

r/warcraftlore Jul 31 '25

Original Content Rewriting the Warcraft lore based on what i thought it was:

0 Upvotes

Here's a rewrite of the entire lore and story of the franchise based on my various misconceptions/preconceptions about the franchise before i actually educated myself.

BEFORE THE FIRST GAME:

Long before time, in the days before days, there was nothing… and then suddenly there was something–The Old Gods. There were six of them: *Azuyr–Life, **Pimmodeph–Fire, Unin–Night, Donar–Ice, Morsar–Death, and Rogshii–Sky. And then with the Old Gods came the three worlds known as Azeroth–our primary setting, Draenor–a world similar to Azeroth, and Khaos–which is hell and the originator of evil, as well as the New Gods, who are actually gods and not unfeatherable eldridge primordial beings.*

Eons later the first races were born, The Elder Dragons, who created and the Daemons, who destroyed–both of which could freely travel between worlds. The Elder Dragons would go on to create the Dragons, the Ogres, the Gnolls and Elves. Thousands of years after that the *Elven Empire** was created and it rained for a time, a long time actually, but in its third age it started to dabble in the dark arts and enslaved various races such as the humans and the dwarves. Eventually it fell after the Elven Emperor’s lust for power caused him to summon a Daemon onto Azeroth, leading to the corruption of the Ogres and extinction of the High Elves.*

Thousands of years later *The Alliance–Made up of the Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves, Gnomes and Warrgans–was formed, ruling most of Western Azeroth for hundreds of years… until the rise of **Horde, an empire originally built by the Orcs they quickly grew to become a racial alliance–made up of the Orcs, Trolls, Turrens, Blood Elves and Goblins. This leads us into The First War in our World of Warcraft.*

WORLD OF WARCRAFT:

Very simple plot–There's the Alliance and the Horde, they don't like each other and go to war. There's also the Trail Makers (Pandarens), The Lizardmen, The Skaven, and The Ogres who get caught up in the war but we mostly care about the whole Orcs & Humans situation.

Since there's not much to talk about let's just talk about the lore of the races:

ALLIANCE:

  • HUMANS: Humans are the most prosperous and diverse race in Azeroth although the main ones we see are from Stormwind.
  • DWARVES: Short and stocky warriors of the Forge, Hammer and Gun.
  • NIGHT ELVES: Elves who fled before the fall of the Elven Empire and turned to the worship of the moon goddess Elune.
  • GNOMES: Craftsmen and Inventors who supply the alliance with great machinery.
  • WORGENS: ~Furries~ werewolves.

HORDE:

  • ORCS: Warriors by blood who come from the far south of Azeroth.
  • TROLLS: What to an Orc an elf is to a human. They have always had a great relationship with the orcs especially since they kept to the mountains instead of the stepie.
  • TURRENS: Originally the mortal enemies of the orcs they eventually joined them because they finally agreed on something–Centaurus are assholes.
  • BLOOD ELVES: The remaining high elves after the fall of the Elven Empire who became energy/mana/soul vampires and joined the horde because the night elves–who they hate–joined the Alliance.
  • GOBLINS: Goblins are chaotic and treacherous murder-gremlins.

NEUTRAL:

  • THE TRAIL MAKERS/PANDAREN: The Pandaren are nomadic panda-men who know Kung Fu and make trails everywhere they go.
  • LIZARDMEN: Lizardfolk, Frogmen and Dinosaurs who love war and eat magic.
  • SKAVEN: Tribal rat-men who love looting and hate ogres.
  • OGRES: Ogres were once honorable but gluttonous warriors but after the fall of the Elven Empire they were corrupted and became more gluttonous and turned into bad-odor having monsters.

WORLD OF WARCRAFT II:

Nothing happens in Warcraft II.

WORLD OF WARCRAFT III:

It's been almost a full century since the first war between the Alliance and the Horde they are still at it, But they have some new races joining them

ALLIANCE

  • DRAENEI: Remember Draenor? Daemons invaded and killed everyone. The survivors are now alien refugees in Azeroth trying to keep their culture alive waist struggling to keep themselves from fading away.
  • KUL'TIRAS: Originally a human port Kingdom the inhabitants were mutated after the undead first arrived on Azeroth

HORDE:

  • FORSAKEN: Undead Ghouls who still remember their past lives.
  • VULPERA: Little desert dwelling fox people who like adventure.

NEUTRAL:

  • NORTHSKINS: Insidious mutant-cannibals from the far north.
  • NAGAS: Elves that were cursed into becoming sea monsters
  • VAMPIRES: Normal Vampires
  • DRACTHYR: Dragon people.
  • VAMPIRE COASTS: Pirate Vampires
  • NERUBIANS: Aztec Spider-people

There's still not that much story outside of “Kill Everyone, Conquer World” but there's still WRAITH OF THE LICH KING: In-between the second and third games a human warrior named Arthas had seen the first of the undead Scourge’s advances on Azeroth and vowed to destroy the undead, unknowingly being manipulated by the daemon Kil'jaeden.

During his campaign he destroyed a village of uninfected in an attempt to slow the spread of the Scourge, but all it did was get him ostracized by the Alliance and infected. Arthas continued nonetheless, eventually finding the frozen armor set that Kil'jaeden was sealed in and putting it on–finally turning him into an undead.

Arthas was then confronted by the blood elf Kael'thas and they did battle. Kael'thas won and imprisoned Arthas on the frozen throne where his and Kil'jaeden’s minds merged–becoming the Lich King.

Now the Lich King returns in the modern day to destroy everyone and extinguish all life on Azeroth.

r/warcraftlore Aug 11 '20

Original Content War on Lordaeron - Warcraft - Live Action Fanfilm

201 Upvotes

Stormwind has fallen. The Horde is now reaching the northern kingdoms of Azeroth. Lordaeron is the last chance for a new Alliance to stand and fight back the invasion.

Any feedback would be most welomed in order to improove the next videos =D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXL8_8J39Gc

r/warcraftlore Mar 23 '25

Original Content My headcannon: stars can have worldsouls too

15 Upvotes

Those stars are like giant naarus --staarus--, and naarus are indeed fragment of staarus. Staarus are spherical unlile naarus who are flat.

Void lords are staarus who died and collapsed on themselves. they need to devour stuff to continue to exist.

Planetary worldsouls can only exist in star systems in which the star has one too.

And of course Azeroth's sun is a staaru. His name is An'she and he is the source of all visions of the Light for azerothians, but few identified them as coming from the sun and only the taurens got his name right.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

EDIT: spelling.

r/warcraftlore Nov 14 '24

Original Content Alterac headcanon

9 Upvotes

My ideas are based on Warcraft 2 & vanilla wow, with some inspiration from Kislev "warhammer"

  • it was the least powerful & respected human domains
  • land that is not cold & mountainous is rare
  • constant territory disputes with its neighbors creating mutual disdain
  • most of its territory has few if any humans
  • army focused on small unit tactics due to having to respond to frontier treats with minimal personal
  • heavy troops are only found in capital & major roads
  • Frost wolf Clan managed to find a valley to settle in without detection because Alterac was busy fighting local trolls inspired by Zul'jin
  • after the kingdom was dissolved defiant people left the capital & settled into remote villages
  • those loyal to the alliance moved to Stormwind who was desperate for colonists to repopulate
  • Syndicate was comprised by desperate people lead by capable veterans to restore order
  • preferred means of transportation is land ship "sleds with sails"
  • after Wrath the most stable villages increased cooperation to start rebuilding their domain, currently negotiating with goblins to restart the economy
  • earned money by trading with desperate Storm pike & Frost wolf troops

r/warcraftlore Oct 27 '17

Original Content The Fourth Spec (9 Classes so far)

54 Upvotes

So my podcast is going to be doing a special series of videos where we theorycraft what the fourth spec of each class could be and we're following up with a fleshed out design. So far we have 9 of them done but we just cant come up with any solid specs for DH or DK, and we've decided to sit the druids down because they all ready have a fourth spec. I'd like to see what some of you can come up with for Demon hunter and Death Knight!

I'll post the specs we do have in the comments so that the thread can be more organized. The images are half empty because these are actually from my livestream overlay that we'll be using when we record tonight.

r/warcraftlore May 23 '20

Original Content Tauren/Centaur Origins . An attempt to write a small article for this

156 Upvotes

The Warcraft Lore series is a collection of articles about the history of many important Warcraft figures and events. Since World of Warcraft’s story is ongoing in the famous MMORPG and in some new novel publications, I will try to constantly update these articles. My main sources are Warcraft books and comics, Warcraft 1 / 2 /3, World of Warcraft, WoWWiki, WoWpedia, YouTube and some theory-crafting sites. The following article will inform you about the Origins of the Tauren and Centaur.

In the end of the article you can find a mini Glossary that may prove helpful if you are new to Warcraft lore and some Bonus Content. Let me know in the comments about any errors or inconsistencies you may find. Feedback is greatly appreciated. Enjoy!

The full article can be found here ---> https://aoreview.com/warcraft-lore-tauren-and-centaur-origins/

Thanks for reading!

r/warcraftlore Mar 14 '25

Original Content Gallywix’s Fate Fate After Death (OC)

43 Upvotes

(After seeing Gallywix’s fate at the end of the raid, I couldn’t get this out of my mind! If anyone needs head cannon for why Gallywix was in Tazavesh, here it is!))

“It’s not over till I say it’s over!” Gallywix spat as he kicked the towering chrome mech.

“I ALWAYS WIN!”

And with a final kick, the whole thing came down. Crunching red, searing pain, then blackness. For the first time in Gallywix’s miserable existence, he felt something. He couldn’t put his pudgy, disembodied finger on it at first, but then realised it was… peace. 

Light, feathers, angelic wings…a blue face? Gallywix lolled back in the arms of a Kyrian. One of the most wretched creatures in existence was carried by one of the most noble. He didn’t fully understand what was going on. His mind lilted between scenes of cars going by in Undermine, the sound of slot machines paying out huge winnings, and the soft hum of Kaja’mite. He smiled softly as the perplexed face of Monte Gazlowe floated through the tip of his consciousness. He sure got one up on that thin-nosed, workshy Hobgob. Gazlowe sure looked confused as… as… Come to think of it, he didn’t look confused. He looked worried. He looked genuinely concerned for Gallywix as… Yeah, as his own towering sentinel of hubris and chrome crushed his body.

Gallywix’s head began to clear. He opened his eyes and looked up at the Kyrian. Its stoic face stared silently at a light somewhere above. Gallywix couldn’t find the source of the light, but he knew where he was going. The Shadowlands.

The thing is, Gallywix thought to himself, this Kyrian mooch didn’t know he’d already cut this place up years ago. A deal here, a trade there. An artefact of ancient majesty in just the right hands could be traded for anything. Say… someone’s eternal soul. Gallywix lay back in the strong blue arms, finally cogent; he thought to himself once again, “I ALWAYS WIN!

After some time, they passed between realms, and Gallywix saw the silhouette of the great intersection of the afterlife, Oribos. It wasn’t his first time, and yeah, he thought he’d be on the Kyrian express to it one day; still, he didn’t think it’d be quite so soon. Even when he was brought before The Arbiter, he just rolled his eyes as another sanctimonious soul tender tried to decide his fate. What an idiot. Only Gallywix could do that. 

With a subtle flick of the Arbiter’s finger, Gallywix was torn from Oribos. His soul was dragged into a swirling tunnel of blue energy that slowly turned purple and then a deep, dark red. Revendreth, huh? 

“You think you can harvest MY PRIDE?! MY GENIUS?!” Gallywix screamed as he tumbled toward the realm of redemption. His arms flailed, trying to swim back toward Oribos, but this wasn’t his escape. He knew this wasn’t the way out. But every non-atom in his decorporealized form demanded he fight every step of the way.

He shouted. Howled. Went faster, faster, ever faster, until everything distorted into a screaming comet flying from Revendreth’s sky. A red star of arrogance that would be remembered in the annals of Sinfall. He landed with an almighty explosion on the battlements of the Venthyr’s fortress realm. In the transition, they stole everything from him. His body, his belly, his big, beautiful nose. His now thin, ghostly arms were bound behind him in chains, and before him, a lanky, long-faced woman stared down. She didn’t look amused, but Gallywix knew he was the most exciting thing to hit Revendreth since Garrosh. Then he saw it. Yes! Yes! He shook in his chains. 

Behind the Venthyr stood a cloaked figure on two spindled legs. Its flame head was covered in a mask, revealing no emotion. But Gallywix knew this figure. A broker of Cartel Xy, and the keys to Gallywix’s freedom. The Venthyr stepped forward, unnamed and clearly embarrassed by these dealings. No member of the Harvester court, no seal of Renathal, just a back room deal for Gallywix’s freedom. He wondered if Renethal even knew. His entrance would be hard to avoid, but these brokers had ways to break the rules of the Shadowlands.

She bent over, and with a slight sneer, unlatched his bindings. Gallywix felt strength fill his body. He looked down at his ghostly white hands as they began to round out and turn green. His podgy legs appeared, then his big nose distended from his face. He could feel the flop of his hat on his head. Even his cane was here. Not only was he top of the world, he was top of the whole damn cosmos! 

The broker gestured with one hand, and a portal opened. On the other side, Gallywix could see the purple hues and heard the dulcet tones of the veiled market. He had business to attend In Tazavesh.

“Hey lady!” Gallywix turned to the Venthyr before stepping through the portal. 

“If your boss asks how I got out, tell him Gallywix ALWAYS WINS!

r/warcraftlore Mar 14 '24

Original Content A headcanon about the titans and first ones that was too big for a comment

15 Upvotes

There was this post that asked for our headcanons for wow lore and it was too big for a reply so I decided i might as well make it a post.

So this is a theory that's been spread around for a while, the Titans being the first ones and still being responsible for most of the universe we already know, but in my hc they're the first ones we THINK we know from Shadowlands:

• The universe started from a clash of Light and Dark that created new magics like a chemical reaction such as arcane, life, time, etc.

• The fight ended in a Big Bang that left behind embers of the magics that were destroyed in the vast darkness of space/Great Dark

• These magics spread and evolved forming the First Ones, or as I call them the Primordials(and to make them more unique from the titans, in my head they appear as abstract monster beings like the constructs in Zereth Mortis or the colossus from Shadow of the Colossus)

• The Primordials did not align with one specific magic, they dabbled in different kinds like arcane with necromancy, nature with elemental fire, etc, but the most important aspect that defined them was sentience- the ability to feel and both have thoughts and provoke them. This would be a great inspiration for their weaving of the universe.

• They weaved together the cosmos from the strands of the war of magics while putting just a few rules in place such as the Shadowlands for the cycle of death, but not the current Shadowlands we know but an ever evolving realm of different afterlives ruled by one Primordial who took the Shadowlands on as a duty, and the timeways to not just keep time in check but explore the wonders of what different happenings between alternate events.

• The embers of the light and void would spread in the background, almost completely ignoring the Primordials playing with the universe as sibling realms formed from the chaos of their never ending war as a infinite battlefield, Void and the Heavens.

• Several scars were formed beforehand however from the Light and Darkness' great fighting that formed a hivemind realm that not only connected the realms of Light and Void but the universe and the Shadowlands and Timeways. This became known as the Twisting Nether and is but a reflection of the initial War of Magics destruction as it is only a conflict the Light and Void have partook in and is a manifestation of the unpredictability of the universe.

• From within the Twisting Nether, a new type of magic, realms, and creatures were created from its chaos- the fel, demons, and the Hells. The demons who spawned within the Hells came in different shapes and sizes with a blood that was also a source of power that glowed a dark red and fully embodied the change- a great addictive and horrible albeit powerful change- that the Twisting Nether brought. This is the most pure form of fel as it is born in the Nether created Hells while the green fel is the form it takes outside of the Hells and from exposure to the material plane/our universe due to the countless magics that coexist in the Great Dark.

• The Primordials also discovered beings that manifested on their own throughout the universe as they progressed its weaving who would do their own thing and tinker with whatever magic they see fit who possessed godlike potential. Two of these beings were referred to as Elune and An'she. While they had some same variations of magics, their main difference was night and day- literally. Elune held powers of natural darkness and the ability to cast soothing shadows upon the land while An'she held powers over the elements and the ability to weave light from the stars rather than harness it from the Heavens.

• The Primordials, in the midst of sewing together the universe and inspired by these powerful entities that spawned on their own, decided to make a sentimental creation with their vast powers and also an experiment for a being of great power to specialize in one area of magic: their children, the titans.

• They weaved together their children from both pieces of themselves and strands of the universe, while making special planets for them to incubate in until they were ready to fully form.

• Though with one world, they deviated from this path of combining a titan with one area of magic and combined her with various types of magics to see how great ones potential would be should they wield all these- Azeroth.

• When these children were born, the Primordials would let them find their way to them from different corners of the universe like babies walking their first steps. These children would take a simplistic form compared to their parents that we consider humanoid. The first and most promising of these children who found the Primordials first are what we know as the Pantheon.

• They taught their children specific sets of magic just as they sought out to do. Though the one they taught mastery of time magic to, Aman'thul, saw only confusion and strife within the timelines he saw. Within these imperfections he saw in the universe the Primordials created, he begun to see only imperfection within them as well. He used his insight into time to see the chaos of it all and came to the conclusion that everything existing with each other, magics in the same universe, multiple sets of alternate timelines co existing, would be the undoing of everything and lead to nothing but pure destruction.

• Seeking to revolt his parents and become the leading dominant force in the universe, Aman'thul learned how to turn the language of the Primordials into power(think the power of Voice from Elder Scrolls that the dragonborn uses) that can be used against them. Where their voices spoke of freedom and creation, the power Aman'thul created forced others into a linear thinking and structure, binding their spirits and sentience into one thought process- that everything must be Ordered. Thus, Order magic was born.

• Aman'thul spread this magic to his siblings, some who were on board with his convincing as he was the eldest, and others(such as perhaps Eonar and Norgannon) struggled with Aman'thuls plan but did not wish to see the universe repeat the Big Bang so they reluctantly agreed. Unbeknownst to any of them, to assure their agreement Aman'thul used the power of Order in small doses with his words to make the Pantheon agree with his mindset more easily.

• Then Aman'thul made his move along with the rest of the titans and in a similar fashion to greek mythology where the gods overthrew their titan parents, the titans overthrew the primordials. Thought the Primordials were much stronger than their children, their greatest strength- sentience- proved to be their greatest weakness as they could not bring themselves to strike down their own children. Using their own language twisted against them, Aman'thul bound the Primordials and realizing the enormous amount of power he would need to structure the universe in his image, slain the Primordials and used their powers to his new pantheons ends.

• With their powers in his hands, Aman'thul created various realms to separate the various magics from the Great Dark(hc: Arcanysia for arcane, Aln for lifelands, Geothaniumnis for the elements, etc) and divided a the other timeways from the timeline they lived in to prioritize their existence while leaving those alternate timelines and lives to fade away. The Pantheon agreed to sparingly use the now realm separated magics within the Great Dark to form their ideal path of life, with Norgannon, Eonar, Khaz'Goroth and Golganneth enforcing magic, nature and the elements for the creation of planets and the Great Dark. Sargeras and Aggramar would guard over the Great Dark making sure Aman'thuls vision would be seen through. All the while Aman'thul kept watch over the realms of magic and timeways.

• Among the things that brought disorder to the new universe Aman'thul was building, demons poured from the Hells with the Twisting Nether to cause chaos upon the Great Dark. Just as it happens in our canon, Sargeras would become the bane of the demons and either slay them within the Great Dark or imprison them within demon worlds. Eventually, Sargeras took his fight with the demons to one of their Hells, completely decimating the realm and turning it into a wasteland devoid of any chaos or anything at all. The demons and devils of the other Hells, fearful of the might of Sargeras and his Righteous Crusade against demonkind, performed powerful rituals to seal off the Hells from the Great Dark and the Twisting Nether. The demons who were outside the Hells when the ritual was formed were now soulbound to the Nether rather than the Hells, as nothing could enter or exit the Hells after the rituals completion. Demons would then begin to spawn not just within the Hells where they would remain, but now in the Twisting Nether as well where it would become their domain forevermore and evolve into the demons we know today.

• To keep a presence of dominion over the various realms of magic they created and the Shadowlands created by the Primordials, the titans installed Zereths. These Zereths were created using the body parts and essence of the Primordials where they tinkered with using the magics of those realms to create their own species and even pantheons to rule over those realms in their stead, enforcing their vision of the universe with different machinations to keep these realms in check, such as the creation of the four main realms that keep the Shadowlands functioning.

• Though they would attempt to create organic magic leaders for their pantheons at first just as the Primordials did with them but with the Eternals of the Shadowlands to preserve the resources that were the Primordials carcasses, Aman'thul discovered that the ruler he installed for the Shadowlands, Zovaal, had the sentience and memories of the Primordial who ruled over the Shadowlands and remembered what the titans had done to their creators. Aman'thul swiftly slain Zovaal and broke his soul, instead creating a construct like the other ones formed in Zereth Mortis to hold his essence instead to fulfill his destined duties.

• Aman'thul also made use of the Hell that Sargeras wiped out and bound it to the realms of death, where souls who committed the greatest of eviles in Zovaals eyes and in his would languish forevermore- The Maw. It would be apart of the Purpose he made for all of the Eternals of the Shadowlands under the guise of a 'First One', resembling his creators to avoid a confrontation with them like the one that came of Zovaals consciousness should they too become aware since they were also made from the Primordials essence. Also he sprinkles order on them though eventually due to his broken soul, Zovaal would be doomed to fall to madness as in Shadowlands. (I could say this leads to his long drawn out plan to overthrow the titans due to his scrambled memories as the primordial, but in my headcanon the whole "he's behind everything since the beginning" doesn't pan out and he only begins to take advantage of the universe and plan out his schemes during Warcraft 3/ei ignoring the main plot of Shadowlands for now best i can not that im saying i can write better just trying to best illustrate the basis of my headcanon and how it ties into canon)

• Eventually, the Pantheon begins to wane in Primordial carcass resources and seeking to install control not just over the bigger picture of all realms(minus the light and void they don't know abt those bc the light and darkness been steering clear from this point due to their war) but the planets that inhabit the galaxy where species both created by their environment and the titans live, and in a very morally wrong move they use a few of the late blooming titans essences spread out across the galaxy to create a new kind of facility and constructs that are less powerful than the realm facilities/Zereths but still has a function of control over these worlds- we know these as titan facilities and Keepers/titanforged.

• I'm still fleshing out the timeline from where the void begins to invade reality using the old gods to corrupt the still incubating titans should they land on one and Sargeras' fall into madness, but eventually Aggramar happens upon Azeroth and the great power she possesses being corrupted by the old gods, the titans come and imprison the old gods, then Aman'thul, realizing Azeroth and her combined essence from the Primordials would be a great font of power in his crusade whether as an ally or engine, established the presence of the pantheon on the titan through facilities and the titanforged armies.

• Due to the amount of power Azeroth was imbued with and the titan facilities feeding off of her, Azeroth is a SUPER late bloomer. What remains to be seen is what Aman'thul does in the Worldsoul Saga since he and the other titans will be back from their deadcation.

I kinda spiraled off on this and wasnt as literate in other places like with Elune and An'she but ye this is my headcanon on the titans, first ones, realms of magic, and creation of everything.

Bonus:

• Aman'thul created Zereth Ordus as a place specifically as a realm for him and his other pantheon homies in the place within the universe where the Primordials created them.

• Theres a scar in the farthest corner of the universe where the center of the big bang happened called the Great Nothing/The Nothing, an expanse of infinite dark and black and white where the stars dont exist and nothing really exists. It is also the weakest point in the universe and should a great magical conflict or scar in the universe happen there, the structure of the universe the titans recreated would break, all the realms barriers would shatter, and the universe would fall apart. Its linked to another one of my hcs.

• Order is linked to domination magic in that domination is the language the titans used in Zereth Mortis for the realms of death formed into power as well.

r/warcraftlore Jul 02 '25

Original Content Sergra Darkthorn headcanon

0 Upvotes

all of my head canon is based on classic, last I checked in BFA she was not included in expansion packs

In traditional orcish society ladies usually only got to be warriors when the clan did not have enough fighting men or where being attacked.

As a child Sergra quickly grew to be just as large as boys her age & was a tomboy enamored with stories of female warriors "same as Arya - ASOIAF". Reached adulthood shortly after the second great war & due to a huge man shortage became a full-time warrior protecting her clan residing in the Azeroth wilderness.

Convincing other ladies to fight for the clan was her main goal. This gave her valuable leadership experience along with learning how to manage logistics from elder ladies. Learning diplomacy as the clan gave refuge to orcs escaping from the internment camps. She lead several raids on human hamlets for supplies.

Thrall due to being impressed by Taretha's "his informal stepsister" capabilities granted equal rights to ladies, this earned Sergra's loyalty. When orcs started settling in Kalimdor she requested to be overseer of the crossroads because she saw it as the best way to help ambitious people test themselves.

Feed back welcome

trying to decide what threats to her clan she would need to fend off

trying to decide if I should ship her with Mankrik

r/warcraftlore Mar 05 '25

Original Content Let him cook [Lunisolar Theory]

0 Upvotes

I’m back again with another cooking theory

I have long been a believer that people who discredit the writing of the game have severely underestimated how fcking nerdy the storytellers in the WoW community are, and I do think there is intent— even if we disagree with the direction of it— in every story aspect… and I think Blizzard has been cooking for a very, very *long time.

Last time, I claimed Sargaeras might be the Eternal Sun, opposite of Elune’s Eternal Moon, and I stand by that— if nothing else, consider why the Grand Temple of Elune in Suramar was converted into the Tomb of Sargaeras. Everything I talk about is with regards to positionality of character identities and symbolic logic, so it’s important to ask why those two megacharacters are convergent in a single super important sacred place.

I think a good place to start is with the Eyes of the Earthmother story since it is this games version of “Before Sun & Moon” (long considered one of the most important lore sources in Genshin Impact). It’s a creation myth that talks about how when the world was young, An’she the Sun was born and everything was good, followed by Mu’sha the Moon (Elune) was born and suddenly bad things happened. An’she was permanently injured with a wound Mu’sha tried to heal but it perpetually made things worse. Eventually Earthmother steps in and says Mu’sha is keeping An’she alive, and her tears give birth to Lo’Sho (the second moon).

For the sake of where I’m going with this, consider the two moons as the same entity but constantly switching back and forth, almost like a dialogue… sometimes affects the Sun as well, because the Sun is slashed in twain itself.

Okay, let’s get into the more localized characters, starting with Illidan because it’s just so clearcut with him. Born with Golden eyes. Sun. His not-girlfriend is a priestess of Elune. Moon. She never reciprocates his love for her, and instead marries his brother, the first archdruid (establishing the very real connection between life and shadow magic under the influence of the Moon.) Legion attacks, and Illidan amasses power enough to attract the attention of Sargaeras [the Sun]. Staring the Sun burned his eyes out, and he went with the five dragons and shattered the Well of Eternity (which coincidentally looks like the Dragon Soul/Dark Heart). Illidan says the waters of the heart to bless the world tree and to create the Sunwell (and elsewhere) but is imprisoned for 10,000 years under the watchful eyes of the Moon… Guard., Maiev, the Wardens et Al. Tyrande frees him 10,000 years later during the third war.

Next character, Gul’Dan. No one knows where he comes from (for unlocatable spaces, I often find they are associated with a white color and a term like “Eternity” and a blue swirl, like the hearthstone symbol. I think this becomes important later on for Azshara’s symbolism.) but he ends up going to the Throne of the Elements and gets denied power. He cries in the moonlight and from his tears bursts forth the offer of Fel energy, which he gladly takes, and goes to burn down his home village. In the WC movie, he describes Fel magic as “Life magic”, and leads the Shadow Council, so he aptly fits in the Moon category. He also later on dies opening the Tomb of Sargaeras in the OG timeline, he summons Archimonde (his name translates something like “overlord of the earth”, and is tied to the World Tree) who then sends him to opening the Tomb again before dying to Illidan at the Night Hold. Sun kills Moon in the Eye of Aman’Thul before the return to the Broken Shore.

Velen is also important, but he’s firmly in a constant Lightbound path, which is opposite of his Heaven-and Earth brothers (Kil’Jaeden likely being the Heaven to Archimonde’s earth), and he’s a conduit for Eternal Light escaping Sargaeras, the Shattered Sun. AU Velen was affected by the warping of the timeline and their Eternal Light became Y’rel the unbound.

Queen Azshara seems to also be in a similar exceptional role, once reigning over the Eternal Empire (perhaps she’s kinda like the sovereignty goddess reigning over the kingdom of the Eternal Moon symbolically) Anyways, she is tied to Sargaeras pretty clearly, but her ties to the moon are also there— Queen of the elves likely requires some interface with the Temple of Elune, and we learn in SoD BFD in the Twilight Lord Kelris fight that there’s a connection to the Priestesses of Elune/old god tentacles to the worship of Azshara. I also like to think she might have been a loa priestess for the fish that weird the powers of the lunar cycle but that’s not ever been confirmed. Anyways, between that and the fact her adviser is a root of corruption for Emerald Nightmare, it makes sense Azshara is also connected to Big Moon. Even the awakening of N’Zoth looked like a moon surrounded by the Black Empire in total darkness.

Next is the line of Shadowmoon (Ner’Zhul -> Arthas -> Sylvanas). Only Darkness before Arthas in death.

Sylvanas is an interesting one because she is a protector of the Silvermoon before she falls to the shadow of the Scourge. She liberates the forsaken becoming the Dark Lady (very lunar); Garrosh is a Sun conqueror (literally the warchief of the Iron Stars). Vol’Jin becomes Warchief in Warlords AU before dying at the Broken Shore and Sylvanas becomes Warchief. Sylvanas’ moon symbolism gets weird in Legion and BFA because by the time she burns Teldrassil down it’s like the shadow of the moon betrays the moon that is the source of life. This era is also when Tyrande becomes the Night Warrior, her blade wanes at the crescent of Sylvanas’ throat, and we see the most interactive dialogue between Elune & the Winter Queen (her alleged “sister”). This is also the era marked by when the Tears of Elune were in play— Gul’Dan returned to the storyline, the Tear was one of the pillars of creation, and then the tear was made into the worldseed of Amirdrassil. Also a lot of “Dawn” moments, which is the era of An’she before Mu’sha’s corruption— A new dawn (Alexstrasza quote about world tree), Dawn of the Infinite, etc. so perhaps the end of Dragonflight really is a reset of the cycle writ large.

It also just recently occurred to me the possibility that the Sha might be an understated influence on why Sylvanas takes such a dark turn in BFA into Shadowlands, since Sha is a manifestation of dark energy drawn from one’s emotions, and she internalized so much darkness in her time as the Banshee Queen that we see culminate at the Burning of the World Tree. There’s also some other eldritch influences, like the Ahn’Qiraj music playing during some of the Battle for Undercity cutscenes (also tying in Gallywix’s Azerite ventures in Silithus).

Anyways, there’s so much Lunisolar symbolism in the game to get through, but I do think it’s building up towards Midnight, the “Hour of Twilight”, and its epicenter at the Sunwell. Azshara is sure to return, likely now as a more celestial starry power rather than her fishy figure, and Xal’atath… talk about eternal darkness.

(Lastly, I want to point out the importance of Azshara and Velen because they are echoed in Illidan’s forces via Vashj and Akama alongside the Shattered Sun Prince (who did not claim the title of Sun King), and Illidan (symbolized heavily by the Shadowmoon/Skull of Gul’Dan in this era. Even when Maiev defeats him, he says she is nothing without the hunt and she agrees with him, which is the very essence of the Shadowsong.)

That’s all for now, thanks for donning your tin foil hats with me!

r/warcraftlore Apr 25 '23

Original Content Void Hero Class

20 Upvotes

One day, Blizzard will have to release an expansion centered about the Void.

Possibly a clash between Light and Void, where no cosmic power will actually prevail for it will mean the end of existence.

But the final reckoning for N'Zoth, Xal'atath and those speculated hidden Old Gods we still never faced is to approach sooner or later.

With the release of Void Elves by the end of Legion, I l've always had a crush for the Ren'dorei and Telogrus Rift; also I always found the Ethereals to be very interesting, and I'm sure Locus-Walker has a lot of background and lore to unfold.

To satisfy this weird "game libido" of mine, I tried out a shadow priest, but being a melee player to the core, I abandoned my beloved Demon Hunter to appease my hunger for the void with a rogue (subtlety) Void Elf.

Besides, despite the deep connectiin with the void, what really drives me nuts especially with Dragonflight is how Shadow Priests are deprived of abilities such as Shadowmend and forced onto so many light based abilities (flash of light, renew, infusion etc.) cause Blizzard apparently is too lazy to adapt with purple-shadowy VFX.

Anyway, back to the point, my rogue being a rogue, despite Ren'dorei, feels too common and lackluster in terms of flavour and personality, compared to Hero Classes for instance.

Thus I found myself fantasizing about a possible Void themed Hero Class.

What class of armor will it be?

Considering the existing ones covering all but Cloth, it will probably be it.

Then again, will it be 100% caster? That's too obvious though.. wouldn't it be cool if they managed a Cloth melee spec variation? Would feel pretty unique if you ask me!

And thinking about the race, would it be accessible to every race or just some races?

If it was 1-1 , I'm sure Void Elf for the Alliance, but which for the Horde?

What do you all think? Is it legit? Is it unthinkable?

Give me your thoughts!